article: The Rise and Fall of Charm in American Men

[MatureDJ]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/06/when-men-lost-their-charm/309303/

 

[Burroughs]

charm doesn't exist because 99% of western men have become tight jeaned wage slave faggots adapting themselves to the whims of the women who *own* them..western men are pansied apologists who have to ask their women for permission to pisss....to have charm you must be free and men are not free...in their minds....

comment: I think fewer men cultivate charm because it's become a personality trait that's viewed as vaguely threatening to women. Charm is not just having a winning smile and fun demeanor - a charming man does what he wants, doesn't ask permission, and doesn't apologize for who he is. That is absolutely part of the appeal of Cary Grant, Bill Clinton, and George Clooney, who is the consummate unattainable, no-woman-can-pin-him-down bachelor. These traits are not as encouraged in American boys and men as they once were, and frankly they don't coexist well with a lot of second and third wave feminist ideals. A byproduct of feminism has been that American men have been encouraged to get in touch with their sensitive, less dominant, more "feminine" sides for a few decades; charm has gone by the wayside a bit. (I say this as a woman, by the way.)

 

[Jitterbug]

I don't think charm is dead, it's just hiding from women in plain sight. Would those complaining women be able to recognize charm if it stands right in front of them? Likely not, considering that the very author of said complaint tried hard to redefine masculine charm with her solipsistic feminine perspective:

There is no getting around the basic womanliness of charm. One of the three most important virtues in a man, according to Christopher Hitchens—among the very few charming men I’ve known—is the ability to think like a woman. (The other two are courage, moral and physical, and a sense of the absurd.) Certainly this is one reason many men find charm so alien and alienating. But a man’s ability to think like a woman, and its concomitant—an understanding of and interest in women—is probably rooted not in sexuality but in a sympathetic relationship with his mother or other women who raised him. That today foppishness, campiness, and a proclivity to dish get conflated with male charm indicates, as does the notion of Vaughn as a contemporary Garner, the culture’s incomprehension of that quality.

 

[Mike32ct]

charm in american men died because women killed it. There's no point to us wasting time charming them, if they're just going to turn around and fvck other guys.

Perhaps this is the start of men finally realizing that women have gone too far, and is the starting point in us turning things around on women.

^This.

 

[PlayHer Man]

Another article blaming men for "sucking" at something. :crackup: :crackup:

Guess what? Getting people to behave a certain way is not that tricky. Its as simple as making it worth their while. Reward vs. punishment. If men don't benefit from being charming they won't be charming. Simple as that.

Taking away the reward for a certain behavior.. then complaining when that behavior stops is idiotic. Its like the wife who stops f*cking her husband.. then wonders why he f*cks his secretary. :crazy:

Having nostalgia for the past is a waste of time. Things change for a reason. Better to stop sulking over "better times" and do whats best for you TODAY.

 

[BlackEricNorthman]

I won't even lie, I got lost reading some of the article. The article was very convoluted in making his point known, to many big show-y words that shows more that he has a large vocabulary and can make grand exposition over a direct point.

That part aside I liked this bit:

Charm is a social—a civilized—virtue. But its very refinement, the weight it places on self-presentation, means that it is inherently manipulative. All of Grant’s characteristic winning expressions—the double take, the ****ed head, the arched eyebrow, the sideways glance—signaled that he was pulling something off. The charming man (or woman) always knows that he (or she) is pulling something off, no matter whether that charm is used to put the wallflower at ease, to get the soccer dad to exchange some pleasantries, or to close the sale. The charmer knows that he or she is manipulating—and in the end, it’s impossible not to be at least slightly contemptuous of the object of one’s manipulation.

Charm is manipulation. Clinton and Obama are known for having it, as well as Ted bundy, Jim Jones, George Clooney and Russell Brand. Everyone wants something from somebody at all times. Every new interaction that you have with a new girl, she is sizing you up. Seeing what you can provide for her, and we do it to women also. The biggest difference between the "charming male" and the non-charming is the fact that the charming male is just the better salesman.

 

[BlackEricNorthman]

oops double post

 

[sharkbeat]

Notice how the author is using movies for all his references.

There are charming men. It's just that the Western societies look down upon them. Rather, they turn into crude, bicepful, uneducated, foul-mouthed, leather-jacket-wearing, bling-bling, not-giving-a-****, and law-breaker to define how men should behave like. This is today's charming men.

The traditional charming men: nicely-combed hair, well-versed, well-educated, wearing nice shirts, attentive, are no longer in style in Western societies (basically, the James Bond's styles back in the 60s and 70s). They are condemned as nice guys.

 

[Burroughs]

Notice how the author is using movies for all his references.

There are charming men. It's just that the Western societies look down upon them. Rather, they turn into crude, bicepful, uneducated, foul-mouthed, leather-jacket-wearing, bling-bling, not-giving-a-****, and law-breaker to define how men should behave like. This is today's charming men.

The traditional charming men: nicely-combed hair, well-versed, well-educated, wearing nice shirts, attentive, are no longer in style in Western societies (basically, the James Bond's styles back in the 60s and 70s). They are condemned as nice guys.

very astute statement

Its interesting to study how the elite have eroded men's power over the last century....the james bond format morphs into vin diesel then finally into the bloodied mma fighter...with man getting steadily dumber ever 10 years

and becoming more and more the desperate white knight with each passing day