(Article) "Single Women are okay with not being married" or "Men don't want hags"

Hitman10000

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http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/28/MNG1UNQDO41.DTL

Are husbands becoming obsolete? You have to wonder. A recent New York Times study, based on 2005 census results, found that for the first time in American history there are more women living without husbands (51 percent) than with them.

To which many men must reply: Uh-oh. After all, how many times did they tell us to put down the toilet seat and pick up our socks? Could it be that a hubby is -- like the big, smelly dog that keeps chewing up shoes -- turning out to be more trouble than he's worth?

"We are definitely looking to have a fulfilling relationship,'' says 35-year-old Gia Colosi, an Intel executive and president of the San Francisco Spinsters, a philanthropic and social club of about 175 college-educated single women. "But at the same time, if it didn't happen it wouldn't be the end of the world."

In case you haven't noticed, that's becoming a prevailing view. Stephanie Coontz, author of the award-winning "Marriage, A History,'' has said, "There is no going back to a world where ... marriage is the institution that organizes people's lives."

Take the case of San Francisco hair and makeup artist Teresa Callen. A single mother, she says she left a lousy marriage 12 years ago and admits she ran smack into all the expectations of a traditional role.

"I was scared, really scared,'' says Callen, now 44. "I thought I couldn't do it alone. I got engaged to someone else right away, but I couldn't go through with it."

Instead, Callen looked around and realized that she had lots of options. She went back to school, got a degree and carved out a life. Coontz says the new trends for women -- college education, financial independence and less pressure from society -- have changed the rules. One of the most important changes, she says, is knowing that you don't have to depend on your husband for a living and "if it doesn't work out, you could leave."

But that's just the tip of the husband-free trend. According to a New York Times analysis of census data, not only are women marrying later, they also are less likely to remarry right away if widowed or divorced.

So why aren't there an equal number of men living without wives? Only 46.6 percent of men do. The reasons: Men don't live as long as women, and widowed women are more likely not to remarry and live happily alone.

So it was no coincidence when a 2006 study by the National Association of Realtors found that 22 percent of home-buyers were single women. Not only is that an all-time high -- single men were at 9 percent, by the way -- unmarried women also purchase 40 percent of condominiums.

"It's a different generation,'' says San Mateo's Lorri Lee Lown, the founder of Velo Girls, a women's cycling club. "My mother couldn't have bought a house by herself. But I can.''

Erika Lodge, a 25-year-old investment banker and member of the Spinsters, says: "The financial freedom is the biggest component in this. Everyone has definitely noticed that things are changing with women in general.''

And what do the single men think of this? Well, as politically correct males in the 21st century, they know what they are expected to say.

"I think if you talked to most guys in my age group,'' says John Gartland, 34, who is president of the San Francisco Bachelors, "they would say they want a dynamic, independent, successful woman.''

But Gartland's friend and fellow member of the Bachelors, Eric Noland, is honest enough to admit that dating an extremely successful woman might take some adjusting.

"It wouldn't be threatening,'' says Noland, a financial planner for Williams-Sonoma, "but if I met someone who was high-powered, there might be some feelings of inadequacy. I think that's a very male reaction.''

There's the rub. Women have clearly changed, but some of them say men aren't keeping up.

Lown may be the model for the new single woman. Forty-one and never married, she worked in the corporate world until she took up biking after a long layoff. She loved the exercise and experience, but not dealing with the men's cycling clubs.

"Men compete with each other,'' says Lown, who has a master's degree in gender relations. "And they also compete with the women. Women don't want someone to be rude and give them smack talk going up a hill. They want encouragement.''

That wasn't likely to come from the men, so Lown started Velo Girls, for serious female cyclists, in 2002. The club now has more than 1,300 members and last year organized 299 rides, only a few of which included men.

"I had no idea it would take off like this,'' Lown says. "It was a huge surprise.''

The interesting part is the demographic. Lown says about 60 percent of club members are between the ages of 30 and 55, "rather affluent, college-educated, and with lots of free time available.'' That's because, in many cases, they aren't married. Nor are they clamoring to invite some men along.

"This is definitely not a place to meet singles,'' Lown says. "A lot of women say, 'This is my ride, not my boyfriend's or my husband's.' "

Not that they haven't tried it. Lown runs a few "singles'' rides each year, and the last one was the whole new male-female disconnect in a nutshell.

"I don't know how many times I had to tell the guys to chill out,'' says Lown, a competitive cyclist who has no problem keeping up with the men. "I finally had to tell them, 'Look, if you are trying to meet women, ride with them. Don't show off. Don't go crazy. That's not impressing anyone.' ''

OK then, men say, what are we supposed to be doing?

"That's the million-dollar question,'' says Noland, 33. "It's becoming more of a challenge. As guys, we are going to have to come up with some other measures of success for our relationships."

Are guys getting the message? Oh, who cares, women say. They are moving on regardless.

Consider Sheila Moon, a San Francisco fashion designer, who is a single woman in her 40s.

Moon worked in the fashion industry for years, doing "contemporary sportswear, suity-stuff." But four years ago, she saw this trend of "encouraging women to enter activities that are usually more male-dominated," and decided to design a line of women-only cycling clothes.

Today, Moon's designs can be found in stores in 23 states, from Florida to Oregon. The average person might be surprised to hear that women make up a higher dollar value of the bike retail market than men. Lown jokes that the reason is that a "man will buy a bike, a pair of shorts and a shirt. A woman will buy a bike and 10 outfits.''

Now, just to make it clear, there wasn't a person we talked to who wasn't interested in a solid, long-term relationship.

"Deep down, people want some sort of a partner,'' says Gartland. "Most people still get married.''

"And women do have the biological clock,'' says Colosi. "I think a lot of us still hear about our parents wanting grandchildren.''

That, Gartland hopes, is a guy's ace in the hole.

"We will really know we are obsolete if the birthrate keeps dropping," he says. "We still have that one useful reason to be married."
 

drmeathead

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good then they can all be single and we can take them home for the night and kick them out come daybreak and not have to listen to them yap about feelings and days.
 

joekerr31

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both men and women are learning to be more independent in life. NOTE more independent NOT mature - theres a BIG difference.

because women are educated and self sufficient many of them are able now to be so picky about who they settle down with that they have the means to wait on 'mr. right' forever.

add to that tv and movies which have created an image of men that is absurdly unrealistic and many women will never be satisfied with your average joe.

its funny, and ironic, that many of these big screen heart throbs end up divorced in their real life - hmmmm, if they are the ideal man how come their woman leaves them. i'll tell ya why, cuz outside of a script and 20 million dollars in product to create a 2 hour dream sequence they are just like you and me.

men are also being more picky. over 50% of us have seen our parents get divorced and have learned a good lesson - marry the wrong chic and youll have years of misery followed by your bank account being cut in half.

being single is definitely a positive thing when compared to marrying the wrong person. but it can be just as negative if the reason you are single is because you haven't matured enough to have a view on personality that supports the addition of a good person in your life.

anyway, i wouldn't pay much attention to the media. they only cover mass sweeping generalizations - which have nothing to do with your life. all you need is one good woman and although only say 10% of the women out there are high quality, in north america that still equates to about 15-20 million women. or put differently, if you see 100 women during your average work day, probably 10 of them are high quality.

the real issue is that people don't know what high quality looks. also that they have silly requirements.

case in point

woman 1
10 in the looks department
5 in everything else

woman 2
7 in looks department
10 in everythign else

most guys long for woman 1. when the truth is they could find the happiness they are looking for with woman 2.
 

blueguy

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Geez. I can't believe a guy wrote this article. He makes men out to be desperate losers and women as superior, all-empowering creatures. I sure hope he is gay.
 

jonwon

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Are Husbands becoming obsolete?

The guy tackles this from a very biased view point, the one of the female mind set and ideals.

If he was a true man the Article could have read: Are Wife’s becoming obsolete?

Or if he wanted to tackle the issue in the CORRECT manner he could have put: Is Marriage becoming obsolete?


To view the gap in Husbands statistic’s and come the CONCLUSION it is the FEMALE collective’s intention is just one of many signs of puss* whipped nerd’s who get into positions of media that can influence, this guy is a total AFC chump, he thinks women are the sole reason for the statistics, but the truth is if there are no Husbands then there are no WIFES. Does this guy really think this is down to women and they decided this?

Stupid article, from a clueless AFC.

He does not even go into the Marriage strike that has built MASS Momentum, that was started by men in the face of the constant barrage of feminist BS they see all around them, imo it is MEN that are on Marriage strike not the women.

Women KNOW all too well Marriage suite them far better, why would they strike it?
It makes little sense.

The guy is clueless and only adding fuel to AFC’s fire, let them read his drivel, me I think he needs an injection of Marriage to an average western women, maybe then he can wonder why the hell he became an husband!

Ace in the hole, this guy makes us sound like puss* worshipping second rate people in the relationship world, this stuff really boils my pis*.

People still think women dont need men! Well Men need women FAR Less imo, something these media sources never seem to hit up on.

It is women that want the romantic ideals, the knight in shining armour, the tall dark and handsome romantic figure, e.t.c. The men i know simply want to meet a women for se*, granted some want a women to share there life with but they are more then HAPPY being single.
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

afc_2_dj

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i think the women interviewed were the super-pickey, super-*****y kind who can't find a husband, so instead of "i cant find a man" they say "i dont want a man", like me being a street-bum and qualifying it with "i shun the corporate rat-race" instead of "i'm a loser and can't find a job"
 

Latinoman

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Now...who is the one that typically ask for marriage? The MAN.

So...if 50% of the women are NOT asked for marriage...then those are the ones that would be unmarried.

Very rarely a woman says "no" when asked for marriage.

Furthermore, many women want a career. A succesful career. That takes a lot of work. To the point that some sacrifices take place. As men, we know that as we start seeing the fruits in our 30s. Women are the same. But, unlike men...their "prime" years is in her upper 20s. Men can married and have children ANYTIME. Women can't.

A woman that is successful in her career...is going to be picky on the man she might want. Who can match a succesful career woman that is in her 30s and 40s? Well, a man in that same age group and ABOVE (50s and 60s). But women that has careers and are in their 30s and 40s FEEL they have to be picky ALSO on the looks department, etc. of the man...so, they will try for the 30s and 40s. However, here is the problem...a man that is in his 30s and 40s is interested in women that are in their 20s and early 30s. And a man that is in his 50s and 60s are PROBABLY already married.

50% of the women that is UNmarried...are NOT by choice. But more because of circunstance.

This is the article discussed on the radio the other day. The one with the feminist being interviewed and answering questions. The "men" in the radio station were wimps. We need people like Adam Coralla (from the former "The Men's Show").
 

Rollo Tomassi

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C.W. Nevius is little more than a failed sports writer who's discovering that opting in for the "New Age" (see AFC) Dad material has a larger untapped audience in the San Francisco area.

Here's his bibliography.
 

penkitten

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good grief, am i the only one that thinks people are making way to big a deal over nothing?
talk about over thinking something.
if people are waiting later in life to get married the first time around, hell i appauld them. i wish more of our generation were brought up to think
1. go and finish college 2. buy a nice car and house 3 plan for retirement 4 then think of settling down.
do you know how easier our lives would have been?

then the widows and widowers not wanting to replace their spouse, wanting just to live life and experience things without doing the marriage thing again, all i can say is "you rock". why does our society think its so terrible that they want some time to just deal with their own issues and lives without jumping into marriage again with the first person they meet?

you know, if divorced women and men dont want to immediately run out and replace their old spouse , good for them too. divorced folks need time to get over their heart breaks, build their lives back , build their finances back up and figure out what they are looking for in life, and what about all the folks with kids? their children need time to adjust too. i commend people for waiting.


a decade ago, men were saying they wanted more time. now women are saying they need more time. both sexes seem to be saying, they want to be pickier and they dont want to go into something hasty with the wrong type of person. this is a good thing from where im sitting.
 

Latinoman

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Another thing...although the statistics are "National"...this guy that wrote the article is INTERVIEWING people from the San Francisco area. A place full of homosexual males and lesbians.

The National statistic? Once again...it is the same as I said.
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Latinoman

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So why aren't there an equal number of men living without wives? Only 46.6 percent of men do.
(vs. 51% of women)

Hmmmm...perhaps because the number of adult men and women is not exactly the same?

The above quote is a clear indication of incorrectly manipulating numbers to benefit a cause. When the oposite is clear.

WHAT THE NUMBERS DON'T SHOW
Let's say, we have 92 men vs. 100 women of adult marriage age (see? No the same number). Aside from the "gay unions" which is a thing that was non-existent back in 2005, the number of men married in the U.S. is exactly the number of women married. As marriage is a pair thing. So, if 49 women are married, then 49 men are married. As in 2005 it took one man to be married to one woman. Pairs.

So, when you put that in percentages, it means that 49% of the women are married (51% not married). While 53.4% of the men married (which is 49 out of 92), leaving 46.% unmarried. And leave a perception that women "do not need men". When reallity is completely different. Especially in a society in which MEN ask women for MARRIAGE.

CONCLUSION

It is very clear. The reason we have 51% of women unmarried vs. 46.6% is because we have LESS men of marriage age than women in America. There are at least 8 percent of the women of marriage age population that cannot marry because there are not enough men for them to marry with EVEN if all of those women wanted to be marry.

DIFFERENT SCENARIO to SHOW MY POINT

So...in a fantasy world in which everybody of marriage age was married, we would still have 100% of men married vs. 92% of women married. That is, because there is 8 less men than women (I'm using this figure as an example to match the percentages shown in the article). Which means that a feminist woman (or an AFC man) would then come with similar article as the one in this thread. When in reallity...ALL the MEN are already taken under this circunstance. And the reason, there are woman unmarried is because of the shortage of men. Not by choice, but by circunstance.
 

Latinoman

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penkitten said:
good grief, am i the only one that thinks people are making way to big a deal over nothing?
talk about over thinking something.
if people are waiting later in life to get married the first time around, hell i appauld them. i wish more of our generation were brought up to think
1. go and finish college 2. buy a nice car and house 3 plan for retirement 4 then think of settling down.
do you know how easier our lives would have been?

then the widows and widowers not wanting to replace their spouse, wanting just to live life and experience things without doing the marriage thing again, all i can say is "you rock". why does our society think its so terrible that they want some time to just deal with their own issues and lives without jumping into marriage again with the first person they meet?

you know, if divorced women and men dont want to immediately run out and replace their old spouse , good for them too. divorced folks need time to get over their heart breaks, build their lives back , build their finances back up and figure out what they are looking for in life, and what about all the folks with kids? their children need time to adjust too. i commend people for waiting.


a decade ago, men were saying they wanted more time. now women are saying they need more time. both sexes seem to be saying, they want to be pickier and they dont want to go into something hasty with the wrong type of person. this is a good thing from where im sitting.
The only problem with this is BIOLOGY. Women ability to have a HEALTHY child considerably decreases by a LOT once they enter into their 30s. If the man NEVER had children and TRULY want children...why would he want to risk that by marrying a woman that is in her 30s? When he can marry one in her 20s?
 

Master Bates

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"I think if you talked to most guys in my age group,'' says John Gartland, 34, who is president of the San Francisco Bachelors, "they would say they want a dynamic, independent, successful woman.''

But Gartland's friend and fellow member of the Bachelors, Eric Noland, is honest enough to admit that dating an extremely successful woman might take some adjusting.

"It wouldn't be threatening,'' says Noland, a financial planner for Williams-Sonoma, "but if I met someone who was high-powered, there might be some feelings of inadequacy. I think that's a very male reaction.''
I call massive BS on this one. A man saying he looks for women who are "high-powered and successful in business" is the equivelant of women saying they want a man who is "sensitive, nice, and in touch with his feelings". Both are bs.
 

ElChoclo

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This article starts out "a recent New York Times study". Dr Warren Farrell has pointed out the entrenched bias of the NY Times.

There is a certain beauty about modern industrialised capitalism. The woman, (who formerly chopped wood and manually washed clothes and cooked) is now still engaged in drudgery. Her task is to pay for the white goods, prepared food and other consumables created by society, but she considers herself to be free, and so, is happy. Or is she?

Funny how these stories always centre on the thoughts of the elite women. The uneducated dead end job woman doesn't quite get the same thrill out it all.
 

Latinoman

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johnnyrem said:
A recent editorial in the local (Omaha World Herald) paper reported that he included women aged 15-19 AND women that had absent husbands (war in Iraq, overseas, etc.) in these statistics. How many women between 15-19 do you know who are married? Not many are, for sure. The editorial said 97% are not.

So take it with a grain of salt. And acknowledge that some minorities (soon to be a majority) have the lowest marriage rates around-far less than fifty percent. They're aren't married because the men play around like mad-remember the saying you don't buy the cow if the milk's for free.

Hardly women driving the nonmarriage trend in these instances. The men are.
EXCELLENT POINT!
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

sexxyback

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Don't believe it. All the single women over 30 I've met seem pretty desperate to me to find a man. They are not going to fulfill their biological destiny by going biking. This should be great for guys - girls in the 30+ age bracker are easy pickings.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Are there men who would marry?

Absolutely. But the proposition hasn't been considered properly.

In a marital arrangement involving a LEGALLY binding contract in all aspects, a man enters into the most serious relationship he will enter into. This "contract" even impacts any FUTURE arrangements he makes, such as creating companies, borrowing on credit, have children, health, etc. While a wife can't vote on behalf of a President of a company, she does have a beneficial interest in the property, be it a company, trust, corporation, etc. That's a SERIOUS proposition taken by MOST men who've yet to begin to understand themselves or finance for that matter.

Life, being more complex at a social level than decades and generations past, requires MORE of us as humans to exist, and therefore imposes a greater responsibility as husband and father, and also to one's self.

When you couple the changing dynamics of society, the shear magnitude of marriage, and the ramifications of entering into marriage, men have to have a HUGE value proposition to exchange 1 for the other.

In my opinion, I wouldn't take a woman who would be say, 80% of what I currently feel about myself when I'm alone, just to be married or have kids or have a partner. Are you ok with adding a 20% BS factor to your life just because you're "ready to take the next step?" IMO, no woman consults this factor. They feel NO MEN WANT TO MARRY, when in reality, THE PRODUCT MEN ARE GETTING/BUYING with the sacrifice of their lives isn't WORTH THE EQUIVALENT value in return.

Measure up what men have when single:

-more money
-more freedom
-date or bang anyone
-focus on what they enjoy more, no compromising of time
-no nagging or external push to improve up to someone else's expectations, live up to your own

That's a HUGE value to the man who takes hold of that power. For men who don't care, or have a woman of value, then it reverses the equation, AND, being with 1 woman makes sense, BUT ONLY if the see-saw tips MORE to her favor than your own. And...you can't measure this SEE-SAW in weeks, or months, but years. A relationship's "feeling" takes time. You might have lots of awesome memories upfront, but then some slide occurs and it goes bad for weeks, maybe months, and the only reason you cling to it is because the SELF-IMAGE you have for this relationship is still positive, despite what reality tells you otherwise. MOST guys who have crappy friends suffer from this affliction.

I, for one, would consider marriage, because my "frame" has the identification embedded if it's what I want out there. But it's on my terms, sans the legal binding agreements, etc.

Marriage was only a NEED when society restricted their fluidity and freedom. Women don't NEED men. They want them, which is a greater emotion. I don't NEED to pay someone to do something, I WANT to. I sure could learn it, but in what time frame? Maybe my personality conflicts with this task or person, so doing it will really piss me off? Begrudgingly, people may have married. However, women still NEED/WANT more than ever, because to have what they truly seek inside them, comes from having that relationship with a man. Hands down. Men, on the other side, thanks to freedom of sex, are free.

The only other alternative is that we become deeper, more spiritual people, and therefore marriage would increase because a better crop of women would surface. As of yet, it's more about MARRYING into the lifestyle they envisioned as a little girl, having that relationship if they choose to have kids, amassing money to enjoy the life they believe they should live, and so on.

Human beings are wanting to find the "one", in all areas of life. The ONE vehicle. The ONE tv. The ONE drink. The ONE piece of clothing. The ONE job. The ONE career. Etc. It's like a universal search for god in all the wrong places. Even here, guys want the ONE tool to help them totally get all the women they want. BUT, ONE implies IDEAL, ONLY, ONLY one, and therefore, there isn't ONE. There's NO SUCH THING as ONE. Maybe as a number, but even after 1 comes 2. The ONLY one that may exist, depending on beliefs, would be God. That's it. All else would be FALSE replicas of the original, and therefore, NOT worth your time or stress.

Marriage therefore implies ONE. Yet, the proper frame would BEST fit that matches your short AND long-term outlook on life, while including the ability to adjust and cope. It's truly a PARTNER on the same voyage willing to adapt. Anyone getting into ANY relationship envisiong permanence is doomed to fail. Nothing is permanent, not even our bodies. And therefore we set up false expectations of what is, will be, and can be, and should only be upset at ourselves.

I'd like to hear some of THESE things from women...that I've yet to hear...and to me, anyone who wants to be THAT committed to your life, without a doubt SHOULD be thinking such things, since you're intertwining your lives...

- Discuss a man's friends. Ask if he would like to have them over for something, such as games. Offer to make food. I would do the reverse for a gf/wife.

- Find out about his hopes and dreams. Ask about his interests. Embrace all of them. Past, present and future. Encourage them. Offer him ample to enjoy them. When he comes back to you at the end of it, he'll embrace you for encouraging and supporting him, not leave you because he was doing other things.

- Encourage one another's POSITIVE health aspects for long-term survivability AND mutual attraction. It's confirmed from my own experiences, that mutual physical activity increases intimacy and attraction. Cater meals to one another's health goals.

- Know each other's sexual feelings in all arenas and wipe the slates clean upon entering into a LTR.

Alot of guys here are FORWARD thinkers. They're wondering about the future. Using LOA (law of attraction), you're either thinking about here and now, which is only a product of YESTERDAY and therefore getting MORE of what you don't want....OR....thinking about what you want and feel coming to you and thereby creating TOMORROW. Which is it? Which ever dominates your thoughts, comes about, the other 1 takes the backseat. Choose.

Thanks For Reading,


A-Unit
 

d9930380

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This is bull****. The only thing women's liberation has allowed is for them to screw around in their tweenties, by the time they reach 30 they turn into the same women women where 30 years ago. Looking for stability and marriage and good guys - they realise they're hitting their sell by date. The only difference is now men don't want to settle down then because guys can get younger girls/sex now and they can put off kids until later. Also alot of women by the time they reach 30 have kids and men won't marry these so these women "choose" to live alone.

I have an aunty who is good-looking, earns over $300K a year, Doctor with one kid from a a previous marriage and she is dying to find a man but none (that she would have, she's used to having high standards) want her. The thing is these guys who are her age and her level (money/looks) are banging girls half her age including her ex-husband. Does this sound familar.

Women think things have changed and that's the reason why they put it off in their tweenties but when they hit their thirties they find out nothing has changed at all. I'm thirty now and I would consider marriage however I would also be looking for a girl 5 years younger than me - I don't imagine I'm the only guy with that view.
 

Latinoman

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I wish the last two posts with the proper editing, etc. could be summarized and put into a rebuttal to the "study" or magazine that post this "study".

Because deep inside EVERY WOMAN that "don't need a man" and is applauding this article...knows that the last two posts are 100% correct.
 
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