article: Pushing Babies: The Assault on Childless Women

[MatureDJ]

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/02/09/pushing-babies-the-assault-childless-women

Sounds like a harridan complaining that the patriarchy has ostracized "mature" moms - and that such women w use IVF, etc., should not be thought of as less desirable than a nice hot naturally fertile maiden.

My opinion:

 

[Bokanovsky]

My opinion: anything written by a feminist is

 

[evan12]

she talk against creatures nature , every creature not only human the first priority for them is to pass their genetics to the next generation .so the pressure comes from inside more than what is from outside

 

[Zarky]

I don't see why any man here would be against that article.

Don't you want to bang plenty of chicks with less of a risk of getting any of them pregnant? If chicks think it's ok to put off having children, they're more likely to get an abortion if you accidentally impregnate them rather than sticking you with 18 years of child support payments.

And, they're more likely to put out for you easily rather than see you as a potential provider since they're in no hurry to settle down and have kids.

Why would anyone here be against that? I don't get you guys at all. Most of the sh*t people here write leaves me scratching my head.

 

[Down Low]

...many women end up with bad information on which to make life-shaping decisions. Time for an honest exploration of the dynamics of birth timing and women’s work...

It is irrelevant whether anyone has good, bad, or no information about pregnancy. Impregnation is a natural biological function that proceeds regardless of any discussions. Thus, any actual, metaphorical, or imagined "verbal assault" on spinsters is of no interest to anyone. These hags removed themselves from reproductive relations for so long, it became a permanent condition. They may freely gossip at fence corners and ride brooms around the house until someone notices a stink and buries them.

 

[The Bat]

Clearly, this intellectual is worthy of an exercise in academic debate as illustrated by the quote below from her most recent article:

By comparison, for men worried about potential issues with their aging reproductive materials, arranging for sperm donation is a breeze. The cost is negligible and no risky hormone injections are required. If you want familial DNA connections, there’s the real option for many of using a nephew’s sperm—or that of a younger brother. Or if you don’t have such a handy relative, or it’s not a real option given your family dynamic but you do hope to propagate your own DNA—you can push for further research around generation of new sperm cells from an individual’s adult stem cells or even skin cells. If perfected, such advances could allow men (and, interestingly, women too!) to generate new sperm cells bearing their DNA.

Seriously?? Using your nephew's sperm? Does she seriously strong believe that men above 50 need to freeze their sperm or use a nephew's sperm?

If the thought of using your nephew's sperm to impregnate your wife doesn't disgust you, then I don't know what will.

And obviously, she contributes great deal to modern education by teaching classes like the following:

She teaches courses on British and American modernism, contemporary poetry, ancient and classical literature, feminist criticism, and motherhood studies.

 

[Zarky]

I guess sosuave is a place where men sit around b*tching about women rather than talking about how best to screw them.

 

[The Bat]

I guess sosuave is a place where men sit around b*tching about women rather than talking about how best to screw them.

You're cool bro.

 

[penkitten]

i read the article and here is what i read:
1. schools are not teaching sex ed - they are teaching abstinence only.... which doesn't teach you anything other than sex is wrong because you aren't married, and you could get std's and get pregnant. it does not teach how to have safe sex to avoid the stds and the pregnancies..... = teenage pregnancies on the rise
2. the media is all hype over teenage mothers right now, there are even a couple of tv shows about it glamourizing it = more teenage pregnancies.
3. author states that with upswing on teenage pregnancies - teenage mothers are not getting good education and working crap jobs to make ends meet and there isnt enough adequate chidcare.
4. author states college educated mothers will stay in low paid jobs to make ends meet too.
5. author compares numbers of a 1950 fertility chart with women becoming mothers now in middle age. technology has changed and many people can now afford to wait on having children... if they can take the ups and downs of the costs and unexpected results of such procedures. = invitro isn't free and isn't always positive.
6. author thinks that if you do not wait on getting a college education, finding a mate that will be long term, being in a career where you can negoitiate more of your time to your family... then you are losing out. thinks that not enough critical discussion is done on the subject because everyone sees it so personally and that if critical discussion were done, it would be most informative to all.

i personally can't disagree with the article. i do believe that there is not enough information out there for teenagers. i believe it would be for the good of both females and males.
i was a teenage mother. i never attended college. i do not want my daughter's to follow that path, nor my sons. i want them to all have educations before they bring children into this world that they would be responsible for.

 

[backbreaker]

i read the article and here is what i read:
1. schools are not teaching sex ed - they are teaching abstinence only.... which doesn't teach you anything other than sex is wrong because you aren't married, and you could get std's and get pregnant. it does not teach how to have safe sex to avoid the stds and the pregnancies..... = teenage pregnancies on the rise
2. the media is all hype over teenage mothers right now, there are even a couple of tv shows about it glamourizing it = more teenage pregnancies.
3. author states that with upswing on teenage pregnancies - teenage mothers are not getting good education and working crap jobs to make ends meet and there isnt enough adequate chidcare.
4. author states college educated mothers will stay in low paid jobs to make ends meet too.
5. author compares numbers of a 1950 fertility chart with women becoming mothers now in middle age. technology has changed and many people can now afford to wait on having children... if they can take the ups and downs of the costs and unexpected results of such procedures. = invitro isn't free and isn't always positive.
6. author thinks that if you do not wait on getting a college education, finding a mate that will be long term, being in a career where you can negoitiate more of your time to your family... then you are losing out. thinks that not enough critical discussion is done on the subject because everyone sees it so personally and that if critical discussion were done, it would be most informative to all.

i personally can't disagree with the article. i do believe that there is not enough information out there for teenagers. i believe it would be for the good of both females and males.
i was a teenage mother. i never attended college. i do not want my daughter's to follow that path, nor my sons. i want them to all have educations before they bring children into this world that they would be responsible for.

nornmally i agree with just about everyting you say but.. you know im' not even going to say i disagree with you. I want you to answer this question.

you, are working under the illusion or the conclusion that yoru daughters can have both. that you could have had both. by both i mean, a family + man that you actually want to have + career.

if anything i agree with on the whole bit on this site, is that the above for the vast majority of women unless you are blessed with an ungodly amount of intelligence that allows you to get ahead faster than most or an ungodly amount of looks that allows you to still be better looking than girls 10 years younger than you when you are 30-35, this isn't possible. not all three.

in other words, you are assuming that had you went to college, you still would have been able to pull the men you were able to pull, even though you now have more work responsibilities and you are older competing with girls younger than you for the same men.

what you are giving up in money you make up for on the HB scale with availability + not so ****ing stressed out all the damn time + youth

that's the trade off

in short, this is what i want to ask

would you want your daughters to get an education and a career.. even if it meant entering the "man getting" game in their late 20's?

mind you i'm not talking about nurses who can get int he game in their 23-25 year old range I'm talking about real career women.

even nurses if you have to go to school and get a degree but now you are carrying around 30k worth of debt that a potential husband has to take on, **** that's just as bad as having a kid lol. i don't want that.

in short, you are seeing "money" money" its more than the money. it's way more than the money.

do you honestly think if your daughter who is say.. 23 years old and a legit hb 8 and has a care free job working as a school teacher at an eleemntry school and gets off at 4pm everyday with no if and's or butts about it, is not more attractive to a man than a 29 year old woman who is an accounts manager at an energy company, is socially adkard from not having socialized for the last 6 years and is now pushing every man she meets for marriage and a baby.. and that's only when she gets off at 6pm and can't cook beucase she's too tired?

that's the problem.

one of the things becoming financially successful has allowed me to do is to take finances out of the equation from a woman 100%. i.don't.give.a.**** how much money a woman makes. in fact it's a turn off. I like the fact that my wife is always home and waiting on me and is always up beat beucase she has no ****ty job she has to put up with. i like the fact that her first, second and third job is to make sure our son is well taken care of and that the house runs like clockwork.

 

[penkitten]

bb- i am not exactly sure what you are asking me... so here goes:

i do wish all my kids get college educations to be able to support themselves and stand on their own two feet, on their own, in case they never have anyone to share finances with.

i hope that my children are old enough to make a wise decision about starting a family, getting married, having children and that if that isn't the right choice for them, then i don't wish it upon them.

i do not feel that i am under any illusions when it comes to most families having to have 2 parents working to support their children this day in age. i wish i could say that working was a career or a choice but for me it is a need to put food on the table and clothes on the kid's backs and toothpaste on the bathroom counter. i was a stay at home mother for a very short time back in 97 and 98. it was because i would not have made enough to pay for the childcare center that would be needed to care for the kids while i was working... so i stayed home and i enjoyed being with my babies and i loved it and kept house. but we struggled very much from not having that second income. that marriage ended and i went back to work and have worked ever since.
don't get me wrong, i am good at my job and sought after within my company for certain tasks and training methods.... but it isn't high paying or offer great benefits.... but it does keep the electricity on and food on the table.

i won't sit here and compare myself to your wife, because for a little while, i was a stay at home wife and i enjoyed it. instead, where would she be if you drained the bank accounts tonight and ran off with a girlfriend and left her with 3 small children?

basically when i read the original article, i could see some of the points that the author had made, and i read the last paragraph where she wanted other people to really ponder the choices..

 

[backbreaker]

my wife in particiarly has a trust fund setup and gets a little bit under 3 grand a month every month, but your point is made i see what you are trying to say. 3 grand while not a hell of a to is enough to not be living on the streets.

this is what i'm trying to say. my wife yes she was older than me she is older than me, but she isn't a career woman she's a horse gal. she's fun loving and very upbeat. once we got serious i didn't have to wrestle with her about what i prefered her role to be in the grand scheme of things.

I guess.. you said you wanted your kids to be able to pay their own bills. I have no problem with that even the girls in fact i believe that should be a given. what i am trying to say is that, i don't think it's right to push 21 year old girls, like you push 21 year old boys, beucase they aren't 21 year old boys. their worth is not going to grow as they get older. I believe it's okay to push the daughter to be a teacher or a nurse or something that is low stress/decent pay but she doesn't have to be like my mom and be ms. corporate career woman come home at 7pm always have to work overtime trying to get ahead. my mom makes between 100-150k a year and no one could give less than a **** lol. no one cares. and she's attractive. not only does she have the baggage, but she's bitter beucase no one will appreciate what she brings to the table. yeah she earns she lives quite comfortably, but ****, at what cost?

my entire piont is that, the article makes it sound like it's okay to push off **** until you are 30's and that's too much. no woman should ever be so career driven where they have to push off kids into their 30's. Okay i get what i am trying to say now. a woman who is having kids or is thinking about having kids ovbiously has a man in mind that she wants to have kids with. that man has an income. a woman who ism aking, 25-35k a year combined with her man's income should be enough to comfortably raise a child in america in 2012. anyting more a woman is putting off kids for her her own vanity. she isn't reaching to get a better child care she is trying to out piss me.

DOES that make sense?

 

[penkitten]

yes, i understand what you are saying.

i need you to understand what i am saying: i personally do not know anyone who has a trust fund and i personally do not know anyone who makes 3 thousand dollars a month. i bring home about a thousand after taxes. i bring home that amount, because i have no formal education.
i believe if i had had a college education, i would bring home more than one thousand dollars a month. and in turn, be able to help contribute more into the household to provide for all these children.
therefore, i see the point in the article about not having children too early. been there done that.

i am actually thankful that i don't work the hours that you described your mother working. i do enjoy spending the evenings and the weekends with my children and cooking for them and cleaning for them and all the motherly stuff that some career women do not get to have.

i was never trying to make this out about me at all. i was merely trying to state why i understood the points being made in the article.

i am hoping that you see where i am coming from. i am not saying i wish i could make more money than my husband... just that i knew back then what i know now (comparing what i know as a 35 yr old to when i was a 15 year old)

 

[backbreaker]

yes, i understand what you are saying.

i need you to understand what i am saying: i personally do not know anyone who has a trust fund and i personally do not know anyone who makes 3 thousand dollars a month. i bring home about a thousand after taxes. i bring home that amount, because i have no formal education.
i believe if i had had a college education, i would bring home more than one thousand dollars a month. and in turn, be able to help contribute more into the household to provide for all these children.
therefore, i see the point in the article about not having children too early. been there done that.

i am actually thankful that i don't work the hours that you described your mother working. i do enjoy spending the evenings and the weekends with my children and cooking for them and cleaning for them and all the motherly stuff that some career women do not get to have.

i was never trying to make this out about me at all. i was merely trying to state why i understood the points being made in the article.

i am hoping that you see where i am coming from. i am not saying i wish i could make more money than my husband... just that i knew back then what i know now (comparing what i know as a 35 yr old to when i was a 15 year old)

oh no doubt i know you aren't making it about you. in fact however you are a great example of someone who i could see getting a more formal education.

but understand that this is not what the woman in the article is talking about. she'ds not talking about going to a 4 year college. she is talking about establishing a career. she doesn't want kids until her career is established.

there is a line between barefoot and pregno in the kitchen and my mother. my dad's now ex wife, was that liune.. got a degree when she was 24-25 years old is a nurse, brings home about 50k a year. my dad makes more but she doesn't need my dad in the least bit. lol she showed it by getting a divorce. that i have no problem wtih. she gets off work at like 4:30 is home at 5, cooks, spends time with dad, does the mommy and wife thing. does the family thing.

that's not what the woman in the article is talking about.

 

[penkitten]

you what what is great, that we both read the same article and got two different views. which is exactly what is supposed to happen.
i see things one way, because it's personal to me.
you see things another way, because it is personal to you.
more discussions like this should be happening.... it generates what the author hoped for .

i do know several people who are having children in the 30s. i honestly can't imagine as i am in all honesty, old enough to be a grandmother seeing that my oldest is 19. if i had waited until now to have kids, i'm not sure i would want to.

 

[Boilermaker]

I don't see why any man here would be against that article.

You just need a sabbatical from SoSuave for 6-months, that's all.

 

[Burroughs]

Lot of the old crew is gone. Now all we have is conservative old farts who are pro-life until the baby comes out of the vagina as Carlin puts it. .

u mad Boily-boily

 

[Boilermaker]

Burgers, your profile shows you're 25.

You sure you didn't put that backwards, old goat?

 

[Nutz]

Just another crap article about how women should have it all. She thinks women should be able to piss away their 20s riding the carousel, going to college, and having a career, then be able to pencil in a family when they're older and it's convenient. She wants the world to revolve around women even more so that when women do decide to have kids that it doesn't impact their career choices.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, feminism lied to women like her. What she should have done IMO was followed the advice given here:

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/feminisms-terrible-blunder/

Which of the career paths listed below makes more sense?:

1. Focus on career right out of school, have recreational sex with pleasant male companions your own age, be on the success track for 10-15 years, then panic when you realize you want children but you don’t want to derail your career, your looks are starting to fade compared to the twentysomethings, there aren’t any men that seem interested in marrying you, and in any event, you’re running out of time,

or

2. After high school or during college, focus on finding a man about 10 years older who has established himself in the last decade and who wants a family. Use your youth, looks, and fertility to find the best possible man for the role of Husband and Father. Have children at a young age, soon after you finish your schooling, while you have lots of energy and your body will recover quickly. Be there for the kids when they need you, and let your husband do the financial lifting. Be good to both the kids and your husband, and be thinking about what your career dreams are while caring for your family. Talk to your husband about these dreams. Tell him you don’t want to just sit around the house at age 40-45. Then go after your dream, once the kids are of majority age. You’ve still got a few good decades left, plenty of time for career success.

 

[backbreaker]

You know what I like to put things in simplistic terms and when I read the above post by Nutz it made me think of this. you know all feminism really boils down to, is a socially accepted 10 year extension period for women that men don't get.

what i mean by that... look i have no problem with women ****ing guys and not wanting anything serious or not wanting kids. I wno't marry them or even take them seriously but if that's what they want to do more power to them. What gets me, is that women want you to be able to forgive and forget at the age of 28-29 and men don't get that luxury.

as man if you ahcen't worked your ass for the last 10 years, if you have spent your time ****ing off and ****ing girls and not plannig and not saving, building credit, if you haven't started to make a name for yourself, it's game over bro. There is no movement to get women to shame themselves into giving you blow jobs

to take it a step further, i woudl even be fine with the entire freaking deal of feminism if by allowing women to do the women thing when it is most convenient for them to do so and put off kids, if they allowed men to play and have fun and put off kids utnil they have gotten it out their system, their late 40's or so. how come when it's time for a woman to become serious about life i'm now a dog if i don't want to be serious but before when i was being serious you wanted nothing to do with me lol. you can't have it both ways and that is what irks me. if they would come out and say look.. i understand we ****ed some guys over in our 20's and if they want to hold it against us, that's cool no harm no foul, just allow us to do us. but if we do that, we are having a mid life crisis.

in short, feminism allows women a 10 year buffer to.. pretty much do whatever the **** she wants to do, rather it be **** guys, go to school and put off men, that men don't get to have. there is a certain point a man needs to be at when he's 25, at 35, 45 to be deemed accecptable by society.