(article) Dating is competitive manipulation

azanon

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Latinoman said:
It is not a spoiler as it is common knowledge.
You're far too generous of the general public.

Marc's skirt chasing and his craziness for Cleopatra are well documented.
Lets try again... I was clearly talking about the series "Rome" thusfarand you're talking about real history.

Now...I don't know how is going to be portrait in the series as they tend to take some liberties. And I seriously doubt they will focus on Marc and Cleo. They are more focus on Pollo and Lucius.
This is the only part i was making reference to. I care approximately about a rat's ass about what happened in history. The series Rome is readily available to be seen by anyone, and so far, its a landslide - Marc Antony has women left and right.

......

And though i dont recall history, even if Cleopatra destroyed Marc Antony by seduction, that wouldnt necessarily make Marc Antony an AFC, it might simply make Cleopatra smarter than him. Who ends up winning when two powerful intellects butt heads? Someone has to. And that doesnt necessarily make the loser AFC status. It just makes them less smart than the other.
 

Latinoman

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azanon said:
You're far too generous of the general public.



Lets try again... I was clearly talking about the series "Rome" thusfarand you're talking about real history.



This is the only part i was making reference to. I care approximately about a rat's ass about what happened in history. The series Rome is readily available to be seen by anyone, and so far, its a landslide - Marc Antony has women left and right.

......

And though i dont recall history, even if Cleopatra destroyed Marc Antony by seduction, that wouldnt necessarily make Marc Antony an AFC, it might simply make Cleopatra smarter than him. Who ends up winning when two powerful intellects butt heads? Someone has to. And that doesnt necessarily make the loser AFC status. It just makes them less smart than the other.

It is not a matter of he losing or winning in a competition with her.

It is a matter of LOSING EVERYTHING.


Cleopatra was smarter than literally most men she ever faced...with a few exceptions.
 

azanon

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Thanks for the additional information, but unfortunately it had nothing to do with what i originally said or why i said it. We're only in a dispute in your mind.
 

Latinoman

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azanon said:
Thanks for the additional information, but unfortunately it had nothing to do with what i originally said or why i said it. We're only in a dispute in your mind.
I'm not disputing anything. I'm simply sharing historical events.
 

azanon

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Alright... and i wish you hadn't, lol. Not because of the debate over afc vs dj, but because i was blissfully ignorant about what to expect in the upcoming series. I asked for it though, because i brought it up.

I dont see my opinion of Marc Antony changing though. This guy, in series 1, had his whole line of soldiers standing in line on the road waiting while he f***** some woman behind a tree right in front of all of them (dogg* style of course). As soon as he got done, he let out a strong sigh of relief in front of all of them, lol.
 

Latinoman

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azanon said:
Alright... and i wish you hadn't, lol. Not because of the debate over afc vs dj, but because i was blissfully ignorant about what to expect in the upcoming series. I asked for it though, because i brought it up.
I seriously doubt they will focus on Cleopatra. As the story is not about her and more about the issue between Octavio and Marc Anthony.
 

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this thread isn't off track whatsoever, heh. But to contribute to the Rome discussion...

Azanon, you mentioned that Titus Pullo was a DJ in your eyes behind Marc Anthony in the show...did you skip the episode in the first season where he bashed that kid's head in to 'win over' the slave girl's affections? Cuz, call me crazy...that doesn't seem very DJ to me.
 

Drum&Bass

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Originally Posted by Drum&Bass
i'm sorry...what ?? so women who do accomplish things in life like, artists and scientists, and doctors etc..need attention to prove their self worth ?
This one was worth a response. Yes, actually, a woman's profession in no way diminishes this desire for affirmation through attention. In fact I'd argue it makes them more seeking of it since effort necessary to achieve being a professional success limits their options and access to attention. In some cases the very fact that they chose to strive for these accomplishments is indicative of an attention seeking nature. It's no secret that exceptionally beautiful women have far less motivation to achieve than average looking women. They both value attention, but they get it from different sources and through different methods.
is this a theory of yours that women who have a genuine interest in something crave attention ?? because I thought if you had a genuine interest in something, you did it for the satisfaction of doing something with your life that you wanted to do (this is NOT exclusive to men only)

and women who decide to become soldiers, get hurt, but still want to fight ?? they must be doing that for attention as well..

your growth as a man has stopped, you've reached a plateau with your thinking and your ideas are based on the worst kind of women that exist..at best you may be qualified to help younger guys have some kind of grasp on things to expect from certain women..but there is a bigger picture that you just don't see.

Cried the AFC who wished life was fair.
(stooping to name calling now are we)Average ?? sure i don't claim to be better than the next guy, frustrated ?? not by any means I'm happy with life happy with who I am and more than happy with the men and women in my life..chump? I've never been taken advantage of by any woman recently..in fact my relationship with the opposite sex would make a bunch of guys on this forum question everything you preach and think about women and dis-prove it.

the only time you ever had any relevant information was when it came to the wrong type of woman, but what happens when a guy reaches a point where he is smart enough to avoid the wrong type altogether.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Drum&Bass said:
but what happens when a guy reaches a point where he is smart enough to avoid the wrong type altogether.
They are ALL the wrong type of woman and they are ALL the right type. The whole point of my post was that this moral relativism isn't absolute. If a woman sees eye to eye with you then she's the RIGHT type, and if not, she shatters your very subjective interpretation of what's moral or ethical and you necessarily have to demonize her by branding her a low quality, drama queen, attention hoar who should play by the rules you think everyone else should.

This is what happens when people's ego-investments are challenged and they can't accept that their usual rationalizations wont jive with what they're being presented with. It's impossible to talk to people when their own egos and insecurities just get in the way of understanding, but what's really difficult is when they wear them as a badge of honor in the guise of some moral superiority.

Pre-arranged marriages are a norm in many different cultures and the idea of not marrying who your parents choose for you is considered immoral. A woman not covered head to toe in a burka and walking 8 paces behind her husband is immoral in other cultures. Your own interpretation of what comprises morality is NOT unique - but it's the underlying mechanics and motivations of behavior that is universal and when it's presented to you in it's rawest form (such as this article) you find it offensive because it doesn't match what your silly binary mentality tells you thing 'ought' to be.
 

Victory Unlimited

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As Victory Unlimited sits in a briefing session with the Heads of State, he receives word of a surprise (naw…not really...lol) attack on his right flank due to some random thread he posted on recently.

His reflexes snap him to attention, and he is tempted to respond in kind (naw…not really...lol) with a LOOOOOOONNNNG post outlining the differences between STANDARDS and self righteousness, a PERSONAL CODE OF ETHICS and moralism, a woman CRAVING ATTENTION and being an ATTENTION WHHORE, a woman WANTING a man who’s admired by others and a woman ONLY WANTING a man BECAUSE he's admired by others, and lastly…the differences between a MATURE, FULL GROWN WOMAN’s behavior and a 5 year-0ld's.


BUT----before he can, he receives a tap on his shoulder.

An enlisted man hands him a copy of the brilliant, and wonderfully detailed Statement of Rebuttal put forth on his behalf by the Judge Advocate General, DRUM & BASS-------so Victory Unlimited chooses instead to send out a very DIFFERENT communiqué:

“Yo JAG Officer Drum & Bass,

EXCELLENT WORK, counselor! No OTHER man in the Sosuave Armed Services does a BETTER job of representing those who have NOT bowed the knee to the tyranny, hopelessness, and spiritual emaciation that is inherent of repetitive HORIZONTAL thinking. The stripes you wear, my friend… you have OBVIOUSLY earned.

Fight on!

And by the way JAG Officer…



…LOVED your TV Show, dude. Lol”
 
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STR8UP

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Women use attention as a weapon in combat against other women. In fact I'd say that they're even more competitive than men in this aspect, only their battles are fought covertly in the psychological rather than overtly in the physical as men do - we're simply too rational to notice it going on around us. They use ostracization within their peer groups to cut off a rivals access to the attention of the group. The threat of "not being your friend anymore" is a fate worse than death for a small girl and this dynamic only becomes more complex as she ages through adolescence and adulthood.
After the party I had where all of these women were ready to scratch each other's eyes out, the one who had gotten her hand slapped deleted a couple of the other girls from her Myspace page.

If someone did that to me I would blow it off, but both girls who got deleted from the friends list were pretty distraught from the ordeal. When they told me I thought they were going to cry. To me it was ridiculous but it goes to show how women in their 30's aren't much different than the younger ones in this respect.
 

azanon

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Lets be careful and not confuse two different classes of women/people here; those that use cunning manipulation and those that act like 15 year olds.

Sure there are both men and women out there that never develop the maturity level of a normal adult. No adult male wants to be with a genuine child, regardless of their age. But fully developed and skillfully employed craftiness is definitely an art of a true adult, and is an art despised by those believing in the false utopian and fair world.
 

jonwon

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I want to look at a few dynamic in play here:

One, the attraction to competition or the women’s ideal of social worth.
Is the one motivator for attraction and the main trait of women that of competitive manipulation, or is it simply a small fraction of what is going on?
Now granted the above trait can be present and be a key motivator for dating to a % of women but to think this is the motivation force behind all interactions with women is simply shoe boxing women into one category and I know there is danger in doing that.
There as I see it many things women are motivated by, some fall into the competitive realm but some do not.
There is a girl sat near me at work, rather a chubby lady who is dating a very plain AFC none working Nice guy, is this to impress her mates? No not in the slightest.
As every women I dated simply been a means to ‘show me off’, come to think of it no, where they attracted by being competitive? From what I can tell I don’t think so, my last GF was attracted in a bar by us exchanging jokes! She had no idea on my background and was not even interested.
How do we explain the women that settle for poor guys, or plain guys that don’t have much to offer, to think this does not go on is paramount to putting our heads in the sand.
Granted having more options will cater to this very powerful attractor in women, but it is not the only thing going on.

I do agree with women look good for other women, BUT this is not 100% fact, women do get dressed up for there man and a lot of women get dressed in sexy outfits for the benefit of attracting a man, but in general yes women will dress up to look better then other women, there is a competitive edge going on.

No Attraction is not governed by internal forces for both parties, society plays a HUGE roll in attraction.
All one as to do is look back on older generations to see what men and women considered to be ‘attractive’, it was not too long ago men found FAT women attractive as it was a sign of wealth and health, now women need to be paper thin, see society and lifestyle plays a huge role.

There is also a huge attractor in the shape of women and that is how you make her ‘Feel’, granted a lot of women will get that emotional fix by how the outside views her and her choices and bolt-on’s, but there also women to the same degree and the same women who are still receptive to how you make her feel and the powerful emotions you can infuse inside of her.

This is what I think:
Lust and in-factuation are a product of the competitive Manipulation.

Love is a product of emotional feelings.

Granted Love can bread from Lust.

What am I saying.

To assume this is the definitive attractor choice in women is to ignore a lot of what’s going on, there is far more at play here.
Granted to get your aces in relation to the attracting women by competitive manipulation is a worth while venture, I think it is far better to work on the full package.

What’s the full package?

The full package to me is living your life by YOUR ideals and not what we perceive a women’s ideals to be! Develop and grow in relation to our needs wants and desires, build our-self our own empires, work on social connections and skills, develop understanding and learn (that includes about the opposite sex too). Then when all is said and done, have a mate to share your world.

I think to consistently analyze why women are attracted to men, then to emulate that desire and structure our life's around that belief is missing out on the full picture and that is: Women are very diverse, to attract the broadest range we need to become the man we have potential to be, not the men we hope women want to be with.

As for this women, granted she speaks a lot of truth, makes me think of princess mentality or Brat mentality, granted there is a large % of that in the modern female structure but still, it would be nice to think there are women out there that do not base her choices on a mate on if ‘the guy matches her hand-bang, or her mates shoes, or the guy would make a great accessory to my look’. Reading about this type of women, only further strengthens my choice on staying single as I would not like to think I ended up with a women simply due to what I could offer her in the shape of social marketing.

I don’t mind if the women is attracted to me in parts to what I have in the context of how it will make her feel in relation to an ego fix, but I would also like to feel the women was as much of a giver as well as a taker, the women in the OP seems to me someone who is rather self centred and self motivated without being concerned about the man or the 3rd party, one only as to look how she manipulated the man with the roses to see she was more concerned about her experiment then the man himself. I would like to think not all women are as callous as this one, I would prefer a women to be a giver and not a 100% taker, motivated on what she can get and not concerned with what she can offer.
 

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Quite frankly this could have been written by a bloke about a bloke stealing a girl of another guy. Women and men are NO different, we just wear different masks. I've not gone with women because my friends didn't like them, I've fancied girls once they've started going with my mates (although wouldn't do anything).

The most important thing here is what she said about "respect". Above all this is the most important thing. If she doesn't respect you then she sees herself as better than you and you have no chance - time to bail. Sometimes this happens immediately based on looks or initial body language, other times it takes time for her or you to loose it.

But I love the line, "give me a break I was only 19" - What aload of crap, people are adults when they are 19 and they DON'T change their sense of morality. She would do the same thing today, she just doesn't want to admit it.
 

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Women are far more competitive than men, they just compete in ways that most men are oblivious to. Just as men communicate and fight in overt ways, women communicate and fight in covert ways. They fight with innuendo and subcommunications, with body language and interpretations of psychologies they've been socialized into over a lifetime. Many studies, both psychological and biological confirm that women have a far greater capacity for communication than men.

As a part of my pre-grad work I was doing some observational studies for a child psych class and I used my favorite subgect - my (at the time) 7 year old daughter - for my social dynamics studies. From a very early age little girls learn that there's security in numbers and there is value in emotional and communication connections within a collective social setting. This is why the most common sight on a school playground is little girls congregating around one another while boys perform for their attentions (and in doing so validating and affirming their ability to garner this attention). This is not to say boys don't form their own collectives, but these tend to be far less organized and regimented than those of small girls. Girls tend to opt for corodinated activities that depend on social interactions (playing jump rope, patty cakes, etc.).

Within this small female collective, the forms of competition are played out in the psychological - a common form of very potent punishment is the "I wont be your friend anymore" ploy. This tends to cause unrest in the collective and a push, at least in part, for one member to modify behavior in accordance. With a higher sensitivity to language and communication skills, this competiton for one member to submit to another is often fought with psychological methods that are far more damaging than males are even aware of becuase it is covert and invisible to us. The most potent form of punishment is complete ostracization from the collective. This represents a cutting off from that security as well as a cesation of attention affirmation from within the group as well as that of males. Whether this is actual or percieved isn't what's at work, it's the threat to this security that modifies behavior.

This then transfers over into adolescence and adulthood. How often have men been at a party or social setting and heard the "Did you see the dirty look that b!tch just gave me?" from a woman they're with? We don't even percieve it because we've never been socialized to recognize it. The game is ALWAYS on for women - that fight for attention is always present becuase it represents a source of personal affirmation. While men can throw punches and dust themselves off (or kill each other) that is generally the end of the conflict. Women can hold grudges for a lifetime that are just as fresh in their psyche as the day they were offended. This then leads to further psychological retaliation.

It's also important to remember this persistent infighting isn't limited to just single 20-something girls or high school cliques. An easy illustration is the common, tenuous relationships between wives and mother-in-laws. This too is another struggle for male attention. In this instance breeding rights have little to do with the competition, but the security of a male's attention (particularly a familial one) is what's being played for.
 
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Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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Myth:A girl will willingly get rid of her friends whom she had to compete with for attention when she finds a guy she truly cares about, because a girl does get tired of constantly competing all the time.

i'm sorry...what ?? so women who do accomplish things in life like, artists and scientists, and doctors etc..need attention to prove their self worth ?

Drum & Bass - you shouldn't bag on Rollo so much as your post was pretty hard to read through, although you did bring up some very good points.
I wasn't quite sure what message you were trying to get across, was it that a quality women is above all the game playing? If that was the point then I agree, but reality says that until we are able to meet that kind of person then we play the game of So Suave. I look to improve myself to make myself a better person, somethign as an AFC i had not considered until I found this site, an AFC says "What must I do to get that women that I want to like me?" A true DJ, according to me, would say "Oh, you are interested in me? Well let's get some drinks and see where it goes!"

My point being is that all attraction starts somewhere and to regard the women that wrote this article as low brow, is just plain stupid, she called it as it was when she said "If he wasn't involved, I probably would not even looked at him." This article gives you a glimpse to what women perceive, not all women, some women. The women that I think you describe are the rare gems that you stumble across and none that I have found with any frequency anyways. If you have any suggestions as to where these women may be, I am all ears. I have met one woman like that in the past year, she had some really good qualities but ultimately flaked once too often so I put her on the simmer pile and moved on.

Also, to clarify my quote that you put in the Myth category, as it stood you were right to do so, but what I meant is that we chase the better looking women for social proof first, realtionships second. I beleive that all attraction has a starting point and it's mostly looks for us men.
 

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Hello RAFCbearfilm
The women that I think you describe are the rare gems that you stumble across and none that I have found with any frequency anyways. If you have any suggestions as to where these women may be, I am all ears. I have met one woman like that in the past year, she had some really good qualities but ultimately flaked once too often
The higher quality people man and woman are people with a purpose in life.

I'm an artist my purpose is to create art, my life revolves around my purpose and all the things that I do branch off from my purpose. Sometimes I will do things UN-RELATED to my purpose for experience and growth. The same thing with a woman, find a woman with a true purpose in life and you will find that quality gem more times than not. Everyone gets flaked on, so you must adjust your thinking, you have no control over another persons attraction and desire to be with you (enjoy the moment for what it is).

My personal experience, scientists, doctors, biologists, artists, lawyers and women into fitness are SOME of the places to start when searching for women of quality (careful with the lawyers though).

to regard the women that wrote this article as low brow, is just plain stupid, she called it as it was when she said "If he wasn't involved, I probably would not even looked at him." This article gives you a glimpse to what women perceive, not all women, some women.
I never had a problem with the woman writing the article, that was another poster. I enjoyed reading what she wrote and understood everything that she said. I thought it was very informative.

If your secure enough in who you are and smart enough to recognize bad qualities in a person you'll know to move on before any real damage is done..but to dwell on why women have issues is numbing and counter productive..Try and learn the real reason of why a woman is behaving the way she is, if you feel that the TRUE ISSUE is to big for her to change her ways then you must leave. If the problem is something that can be worked on and you are willing to take a chance to help her grow while making growth yourself then by all means TAKE THE RISK !!! its all part of living we all have to sacrifice something (emotion, time, etc). So just man up about it and be aware that at any given time you can be devastatingly crushed!! - but having your purpose in life will prevent you from being stagnant(thats why you should LOVE WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU DO EQUALLY IF NOT MORE THAN ANOTHER PERSON)

I wasn't quite sure what message you were trying to get across, was it that a quality women is above all the game playing?
YES !!!!!!

we chase the better looking women for social proof first, realtionships second.
WRONG !! WHY ???? why would you think like that ??? who are you trying to impress ?? why are you trying to impress them ???

I beleive that all attraction has a starting point and it's mostly looks for us men.
YES ! this is correct, but not according to anyone else's standard of what is attractive..ONLY YOURS, YOU MUST DITCH THE WHOLE IDEA OF SOCIAL PROOF !

STR8UP said:
After the party I had where all of these women were ready to scratch each other's eyes out, the one who had gotten her hand slapped deleted a couple of the other girls from her Myspace page.

If someone did that to me I would blow it off, but both girls who got deleted from the friends list were pretty distraught from the ordeal. When they told me I thought they were going to cry. To me it was ridiculous but it goes to show how women in their 30's aren't much different than the younger ones in this respect.
I have never witnessed this sort of behavior from women in this age range EVER in my life and Most people I will assume don't either. This is very shocking and abnormal behavior...I stand firm with the belief that THE TYPE OF PERSON YOU ARE DICTATES THE PEOPLE YOU KEEP COMPANY WITH
 

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STR8UP said:I have never witnessed this sort of behavior from women in this age range EVER in my life and Most people I will assume don't either. This is very shocking and abnormal behavior...I stand firm with the belief that THE TYPE OF PERSON YOU ARE DICTATES THE PEOPLE YOU KEEP COMPANY WITH[/QUOTE]


Drum, Thank you! That makes a lot more sense... FTR I date women that impress me not for their social value, but because I find something intriguing in them. I ask them out to learn a bit more about them, if something clicks so much the better. You did not ask, but I wanted to set the record straight.
 

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Two words, or one word combined shows clear evidence of this happening:

MySpace.com
 

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