"Arguing" with women.

[Wilko]

I recently checked out one of the online dating forums, and man, it had the lowest standard of discussion I have ever seen online. SS is like a London gentleman's club by comparison. There were the usual trolls, thread derailments, and flame wars but they're a fringe presence everywhere. What stood out was the bullsh!t that the community (a clique of senior female posters) accepted as being a reasonable way to make a point (hint, it was neither).

It was relentlessly predictable in nature. A guy, or a renegade girl would pose a question or make a statement that threatened to shake The Matrix up a little. Cue the ad homs. Now, I don't mean that the discussion descended into personal attacks, I mean that's where it started. The poster (usually male) would stay on point making careful arguments, and the women would simply attack his appearance, character and motives until he was hounded out of the community. Sickening. Throw in some strawmen and shifting goalposts and that's as sophisticated as the female counter-arguments ever became.

It was almost entirely one-sided, the male posters exercised a tremendous amount of restraint, if they got personal it was only after a lengthy period of goading.

Even when their logical fallacies were pointed out to them and they were made to acknowledge that they weren't actually arguing the point, they were unapologetic. They felt entirely justified making venomous personal attacks because their feelings had been hurt when someone criticised something that was only peripherally related to them.

A lot of these vipers were capable of some thoughtful opinions when they weren't in attack mode, it just went out the window if they felt slighted by something. At which point, I was like oh damn! That is every argument I've ever personally had with a woman; at the first hint of being proven wrong, out comes the muttered comment about my height/weight/cawk/bank balance etc. you get the idea.

What does it mean? How is it useful? I'm not exactly sure.

Walk away, don't waste your breath probably.

Master DJ's, how do you argue with a woman and make it worth your while to do so?

 

[Zodiac]

I recently checked out one of the online dating forums, and man, it had the lowest standard of discussion I have ever seen online. SS is like a London gentleman's club by comparison. There were the usual trolls, thread derailments, and flame wars but they're a fringe presence everywhere. What stood out was the bullsh!t that the community (a clique of senior female posters) accepted as being a reasonable way to make a point (hint, it was neither).

It was relentlessly predictable in nature. A guy, or a renegade girl would pose a question or make a statement that threatened to shake The Matrix up a little. Cue the ad homs. Now, I don't mean that the discussion descended into personal attacks, I mean that's where it started. The poster (usually male) would stay on point making careful arguments, and the women would simply attack his appearance, character and motives until he was hounded out of the community. Sickening. Throw in some strawmen and shifting goalposts and that's as sophisticated as the female counter-arguments ever became.

It was almost entirely one-sided, the male posters exercised a tremendous amount of restraint, if they got personal it was only after a lengthy period of goading.

Even when their logical fallacies were pointed out to them and they were made to acknowledge that they weren't actually arguing the point, they were unapologetic. They felt entirely justified making venomous personal attacks because their feelings had been hurt when someone criticised something that was only peripherally related to them.

A lot of these vipers were capable of some thoughtful opinions when they weren't in attack mode, it just went out the window if they felt slighted by something. At which point, I was like oh damn! That is every argument I've ever personally had with a woman; at the first hint of being proven wrong, out comes the muttered comment about my height/weight/cawk/bank balance etc. you get the idea.

What does it mean? How is it useful? I'm not exactly sure.

Walk away, don't waste your breath probably.

Master DJ's, how do you argue with a woman and make it worth your while to do so?

I don't bother. My motto from working as a Bouncer for a bit of time:

If they pull that and you stay around they know you'll take their abuse with a smile on your face. It shows you don't have guts to stand up to them like they either hope you will, will shock them since they are used to getting their way or lastly shows all they were interested in was fighting someone to get their self esteem up.

I've listened to so many women talking about what they've done to guys while Bouncing its not even funny... sometimes down right cruel. Free drink extorting, get their hopes up then have the mother hen come in and ruin it to feed the hen's ego/paying back her friend for last week c*** blocking her, etc... and it really puts it all in perspective.

Just cut ties and go to another girl. Its for the best. They don't want to listen to someone that points out their failures. It makes them feel stupid so they want to hurt you worse than you hurt them.

 

[I'm in the Mood]

Well you can avoid arguments by respecting the opinions/thoughts/beliefs of others, even if they are horribly twisted or outright false.

I see what you mean; it's like an atheist trying to prove to a devout christian that scientifically there can be no God...Does it really matter in the big scheme of things between the two of you? If it's something to do with your relationship, then it's a bit different, and MUCH more complicated.

 

[Burroughs]

Historically men had an iron clad pimp hand when it came to women...

Rome, Indus Valley, Sumer, Persia, Celtic civilization, Egypt..a woman so much as raised a voice to a man be he soldier, farmer, nobleman...the man would beat the sh!t out of the woman, daughter, wife (or even son) who dared challenge his authority...

This remedy is no longer available to western man.

welcome to the 21st century.

Man has been neutered by the state...the state is the true alpha, man is only there to toil. Women are the yoke on our backs where once they were our wards.

 

[Slickster]

Arguing with women displays a lack of control. Don't do it.

 

[Wilko]

The phrase "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" popped into my head, I was about to suggest that The Bard probably hadn't intended it to be cute or taken as a complement when I found out that particular phrase is misattributed AND a misquotation.

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned," - William Congreve, The Mourning Bride.

 

[3countriesPlan]

Well if you need to argue with them and they argue back and wont listen to the facts then distance yourself. I had a girl I was cool with till she and me got in an argument and she showed her inability to communicate constructively. Meanwhile other girls, the really cool kind, will actually stop and think about what is being said and try to figure out a way to compromise.

 

[demezel]

Like Pook said treat women as if you were talking to little girls running into the park. When you want to get a point across your kids what do you do?? do you argue with them?? nope you tell them what to do/what you think about something and leave it as it is. They will stay behind and keep talking, yelling call you name but you don't really care about that you already told them what YOU think and at then end they will just do it/take what you said as what it is.

The same thing needs to be done when you "argue" with a woman. You don't argue with her you said what YOU had to say and you don't give a sh!t about what she says after that. She will call you names, broke, short, disgusting but again by you not giving a sh!t or by saying " I already said what i wanted to say i don't care about your whining that's what i think and that's what i will keep thinking" don't argue, state a point. There it is arguing 101 :yes:

 

[Wilko]

Like Pook said treat women as if you were talking to little girls running into the park. When you want to get a point across your kids what do you do?? do you argue with them?? nope you tell them what to do/what you think about something and leave it as it is. They will stay behind and keep talking, yelling call you name but you don't really care about that you already told them what YOU think and at then end they will just do it/take what you said as what it is.

The same thing needs to be done when you "argue" with a woman. You don't argue with her you said what YOU had to say and you don't give a sh!t about what she says after that. She will call you names, broke, short, disgusting but again by you not giving a sh!t or by saying " I already said what i wanted to say i don't care about your whining that's what i think and that's what i will keep thinking" don't argue, state a point. There it is arguing 101 :yes:

Should have guessed it would be in the bible. Solid advice.

It wasn't me in the firing line this time but ugh, their behaviour was disgusting all the same.

Do you guys think it's worth trying to teach a woman how to "fight fair"? I'm not really an LTR guy but if I was I think I'd be tempted to do something about that. As simple as: this is an acceptable way to talk to me, you have my attention, or, you're being spiteful, I'm outa here. Dammit, I'm itching to try it out now.

 

[SharinganUser]

Should have guessed it would be in the bible. Solid advice.

It wasn't me in the firing line this time but ugh, their behaviour was disgusting all the same.

Do you guys think it's worth trying to teach a woman how to "fight fair"? I'm not really an LTR guy but if I was I think I'd be tempted to do something about that. As simple as: this is an acceptable way to talk to me, you have my attention, or, you're being spiteful, I'm outa here. Dammit, I'm itching to try it out now.

It's not your job to teach anyone anything. It's a waste of time. I work with a lot of customers at my job and sometimes I have to deal with crappy customers. I tell them that if don't like it then they can leave, but they are not getting their money back. Everyone that I've dealt with has backed down, and most even try to book again for next year.

 

[Leporello]

It's like what Stephen Colbert says about truthiness - if it makes them feel good, it's right. If you make a woman feel bad you're wrong, no matter what.

When you're arguing, you're losing. The real question is how to avoid arguments without sacrificing your manliness.

 

[Atom Smasher]

You can never teach a woman to fight fair. They are utterly incapable of understanding personal honor.

When we men fight, we actually tend to follow unspoken protocol. Even a fight that seems all-out chaotic is folowing a degree of order. We know where the line is and we usually don't cross it.

A women cannot even conceive of this. She only knows the expression of her emotion at any given moment. Men can pre-calculate and then strike with surgical precision. Women cannot. They MUST verbalize to figure things out. They do not know what they think unless and until they verbalize.

That's why they can say the most hideous, hurtful things and not regret it. They are expressing the base, fleeting emotions.

Forget about a woman EVER fighting fair. It's not going to happen. Although you cannot teach her to fight fair, you CAN teach her that you don't take her that seriously, and that you will allow her to go so far and no farther.

My ex-BPD is learning a harsh lesson right now. She is capable of eating almost any man alive and spitting him out. She is currently suffering massively in terms of not being able to get over me because I'm the first man she has ever dealt with in her life who is stronger than she. She is innately, massively attracted to that and can't get out. No one has ever stood up to the little princess before, and that has created an attraction so deep that she can't identify it.

She is suffering this way because I learned that you can't take a single thing women say seriously, and that it is ME who sets the rules and parameters for the relationship, and no one else. In a relationship it is critically important that she knows you are perfectly willing and able to walk away. Just that alone will reel her mouth in because she knows she can only go so far.

BUt she can only reel herself in so far, too. She MUST and will find a way to express herself. If she is prevented too much from spewing her venom, it will sublimate and come out with passive-aggressive behavior.

So the best thing to do is to accept that she cannot help but verbalize her crazy emotons from time-to-time, and your ONLY defense is realizing it is just her babbling as she's trying to figure something out. If she goes too far, she must be punished. There is only one punishment under the sun that a women responds to, and that is removal of attention.

I tell you guys, a woman will not respond to anything you say verbally at all. She will only turn it around on you. They are mirrors. If you get angry with her, it's your fault (in her mind) and she uses that to excuse her behavior.

Having said all that, I believe it is strategically effective to occasionally unleash your anger at her, but you have to know why you're doing it.

A parent should strive to never, ever punish his child out of rage, and in like manner your expressed anger must be calculated to bring about a desired correction. It must be something that is fearsome to her, but all the while you're chuckling inside because you know you are doing it for effect.

In summary, my formula is 98% "water off a duck's back", while demonstrating amusement at her childish behavior (make her feel stupid for acting that way by being amused), punish with withdrawal of attention when she goes to far (this is training her to learn the limits and is the ONLY punishment that makes a dent in her), and around 2% full-bore anger expression with purpose behind it.

A woman must be handled and corrected, and direct verbal reasoning will go right over her head as if you said nothing at all, unless she can turn it against you. You must demonstrate that you are stronger than she, that you can easily walk, and that you find her hissy-fits a little amusing yet sad in a way. That is the essence of real strength.

You are the rock against which the storm-churned ocean crashes.