Are you a nietzschian "SuperMan"?

[So pimp its scary]

Excerpts from : http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/great/projects/Knowles.htm

According to Nietzsche, a superman is someone that has elevated himself beyond the restraints of the morality of religion. He creates his own morality, he decides what is right, and what is wrong on his own terms and LIVES BY HIS OWN RULES. Regardless of what other people think of him, the superman (or Overman) feels joy out of the fact that he creates his own morality.

"He makes the most out of this life, not depending on a reward in Heaven or a punishment in Hell for what he has done on Earth. The Superman does not pity or tolerate the weak. He feels that human compassion is the greatest weakness of all because it allows the weak to restrict the growth of the strong. "

In his book, Thus spake Zarathustra, zarathustra tells the people, " Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment... "

Is this type of man you? Would it be desireable to be this type of man? and Why?

 

[Titus]

Hohoho, Merry Chrismas. I really don't have the time to write something longer in this moment, but we will discuss this later. Max in a day and a half. Because lately, i have been thinking a lot, exatcly about what you just wrote.
All i can say for now, that it is liberating beyond imagination.
See you soon.

 

[Starman]

yup thats me..

Nietczhe is pretty much saying religion is a crutch..that keeps man hanging on false beliefs about how "some god" will save him..(i.e. living in a fantasy world)

when you can release yourself from this delusional belief that your actions, morals..and life values are only to please some spiritual being..then can you become a MAN who is liberated by all the moralities (sex is bad! , you must be courteous to people Only to be let into heaven!) and do things just because you want to and not for fear of punishment from god..

then can we grow and evolve as humans

he was a die hard athiest

 

[DIESEL]

I think Nietzsche for the most part is a very exhilariting read - he sort drops the equivalent of an intellectual atomic bomb on all previous philosophy - which if you break it down - other than, say Spinoza, Hobbes, Epicurus, Seneca, Socrates, Kierkegaard, Montaigne, Schopenhauer, and Camus; philosophy to me is all pretty much intellectual bullshyt, the intellectual equivalent of a dog chasing it's own tail, because other than the guys listed, most of the others spend their work talking about unanswerable shyt like if God exists, and why we are idiots/ not idiots for believing in it....whatever......


Here's a good explanation...... in "Either/Or" and "Stages on Life's Way" Kierkegaard built upon a riff from Kant.. and crystallized it so eloquently......it goes something like this: once you accept Kant's postulate that ultimate, rational human understanding of the universe that man inhabits is limited, then the question of the existence of God, in essence, becomes a moot point, and merely becomes a question of making the essential leap - either you believe or you don't believe - it literally becomes that simple. I myself choose to believe, not out of fear, nor out of some bullshyt idea of a "slave morality" like Nietzsche and Foucault would have you believe, but just because I feel it..... for that reason I just have to laugh my ass off at all these atheists who waste their time with these intellectual circle jerks writing treatises like Bertrand Russell did back in the day called "Why I am not a Christian" - to which I say... good for you.. who the fukk cares? I could give a flying fukk if you believe in God or not.. I'm not some bible thumper, I find those people just as full of shyt as most atheists do.

But, to me atheists are the epitome of intellectual egotism - since they can't rationally explain God and believers can't rationally prove the existence of God - therefore, he doesn't exist and we are naive, illogical, and stupid for being believers. Never does it seem to enter their thought process that there just might be things beyond human understanding.

Which comes back to my original point on most of western philosophy... so other than for a good head-scratching read.. what's the fukkin' point?

In that same vein I also always keep in the back of my mind that Nietzsche was a largely impotent, frustrated, misogynist (he had some serious issues with his mom and sister that caused him to hate woman-kind in general, but yet was the epitome of AFC w/women in his life), angry son of a long line of hard-core Lutheran ministers, sickly and physically weak intellectual genius. Don't you think that fukked-up a background would taint your view of the world? Yeah.. I think so too.

Perhaps this is why he wrote so passionately about the "ubermensch" and railed against morality and religion.. and also perhaps why he is also the most misunderstood and misquoted philosopher of all time! ... also, much like the equally bed-ridden and reclusive Proust who wrote so beautifully about the fleeting-ness of our personal relationships, friendships and the cruelty of our limited existence in time.. it's those who lack that in their own lives, that seem to be able to best appreciate it and put into words, much like those who do enjoy those blessings seem to totally take it for granted.

Also, I don't think you have to be an atheist to live the "Nietzschean/Camusian" lifestyle... I do think that Nietzsche was right in his criticism of modern Christianity as a bastardization of what Christ really intended in the bible... this is basically the crux of the phrase "God is Dead and you have killed him." In fact, that idea isn't even totally Nietzsche's.. Doestoyevsky writes about that very same concept in his "Grand Inquisitor" chapter in the awesome "Brothers Karamazov" some 20 years earlier.

In my interpretation, I don't really know if Nietzsche was as avowed an atheist as he is portrayed to be - I do think he was disgusted at what the project of Christianity had become in the 1800 years after Christ's death. But it's very cloudy as to whether or not he believed in some form of higher power - he did get into some Eastern style metaphysics with his whole concept of the "Eternal Return of the Same".. but it's still a very controversial topic, to be sure, and you will find various interpretations arguing for and against this view. I also find it interesting that he titled what was to be his final work, "Ecce Homo" ( meant as a summation of all his work up to that time -before he caught syphillis and went insane) - which to you Bible readers is what Pontius Pilate said to the crowd of Jews when he presented Christ to them for their judgment.

p.s Camus, not Nietzsche, lived the epitome of the DJ lifestyle. He was one of the few "action" philosophers.

 

[Slickster]

Originally posted by So pimp its scary
"He makes the most out of this life, not depending on a reward in Heaven or a punishment in Hell for what he has done on Earth. The Superman does not pity or tolerate the weak. He feels that human compassion is the greatest weakness of all because it allows the weak to restrict the growth of the strong. "

Is this type of man you? Would it be desireable to be this type of man? and Why?

I don't think human compassion is a weakness. It is a strength for the entire species. Take a look at the demonstration of human compassion following 9-11. Is that weakness? If we didn't tolerate the weak we would have no time for women. However the statement that the weak restrict the growth of the strong is false in that we need women to keep the race alive.

Nietzsche was probably a closet homosexual who liked to kill puppy dogs.

You realize the can of worms you just opened. Prepare for chaos.

 

[WaterTiger]

Re: Re: Are you a nietzschian "SuperMan"?

Originally posted by Slickster

You realize the can of worms you just opened. Prepare for chaos.

Forget chaos...prepare for Demon!

 

[squirrels]

Agreed, DIESEL...some things are just beyond the scope of human logic and for us to sit around and debate their existence/nonexistence is a waste of energy.

You have so many senses, so many faculties, and so many tools at your disposal. Anything beyond the scope of these things cannot be understood, and perhaps was not meant to be.

You just have to take the time and the things given to you and decide what to do with them, HERE and NOW.

 

[TTAG]

another superman here

well then, I must be a superman! definitely agree with most things, though am still questioning the compassionate being weak?

I dont necessarily agree with this as I am quite compassionate and dont consider myself to be weak. but hey, each to their own.

 

[Blaaaaat]

some things are just beyond the scope of human logic and for us to sit around and debate their
existence/nonexistence is a waste of energy.

It's never a waste of energy, or maybe everything is a waste of energy, because live itself is meaningless.
It's a waste of energy to figure out the "continuum meanings" with human perceptions.

You have so many senses, so many faculties, and so many tools at your disposal. Anything beyond the
scope of these things cannot be understood, and perhaps was not meant to be.

Perhaps there is no "meant to be", perhaps there is no meaning to life, the universe, the continiuum.

As for DIESEL, he's seems well informed, better informed than me for sure, but i will try to pick some parts I
disagree with (pleace be gentle with me,haha).

The debate if god(s) exists is unanswerable. But it's a fun discussion, like the young dog enjoys chasing his tail. I "believe" that the existence of god (or gods) can be explained by the human pshyche. Almost every culture of any time had or have there god(s). From ancient african tribes, to the Greeks to modern religions, trying to rationalate (sp?) the unexplainable. My questions to the "believers" is, why believe in your god? why not the god of the african Tribe, why not offer a cow to the Olympic Gods. How do you tell your god is "true"? The most common answer I get is, "I just feel it". As time passes, and human knowledge expands, the relegions strangly change with it, accomodating the new age knowledge thus satisfying the new "unexplainable" questions. Bassicly, I believe the gods are made up by mankind to deal with the fear of the unknown. I just started reading Jung, which is interesting, I believe he's telling the human pshyche needs a spirutal side to keep a healthy balance. That's is something Nietzsche surrely didn't had. He caught syphillis during his college years after he banged some wh0re. Dealt with health problems all his live, and went nuts at th end.

So whats the point? Well, why should I life withall kind of restrictions in life, because some dude tells me it is what "god" wants? No sex before mariage, no this, no that. This is bad, this is good. **** it, there is no universal good and bad, there are only human perceptions on "our morals".

well.. love to go on, but i've got to go back to work...

I'm realy sorry for any bad grammar and spelling. I'm not that good in English, and I find it difficult to really express my thoughts in English, somewhat frustrating...but hey

 

[chlywly]

One of his supermen wouldn't last very long in a "group" atmosphere, hence a DJ and one of those supermen are two opposites, one of his so called supermen, is really nothing more than a selfish self centered, ego powering jackass.

 

[Draguignan]

Um, people who can't even spell his name aren't really overmen, are they?

I have all of his works in my personal library. He was certainly an interesting philosopher; his ideas on nihilism, the revaluation of all values, the death of God, and attacks on 'slave morality' and décadence are important and have influenced various notable thinkers after his time. Other themes such as "die ewige Wiederkehr des Gleichen" are priceless. I myself would recommend Beyond Good and Evil as a good introduction to his works.

Zarathustra is so much misunderstood that I have given up discussing him with laymen.

 

[BobbDobbs]

Originally posted by So pimp its scary
According to Nietzsche, a superman is someone that has elevated himself beyond the restraints of the morality of religion. He creates his own morality, he decides what is right, and what is wrong on his own terms and LIVES BY HIS OWN RULES.... The Superman does not pity or tolerate the weak. He feels that human compassion is the greatest weakness of all because it allows the weak to restrict the growth of the strong. "

Any thinking man realizes he has to create his own morality, as anything offered by others needs to be analyzed anyhow (they could be con artists or deluded idiots.)

So we are all ultimately responsible for the morality we choose -- there is no way to blame our choice on anyone else. We all decide what is right, there is no way to avoid the choice or the responsiblity.

It doesn't follow from any of the above that we not pity or tolerate the weak. That's a random choice, and it doesn't follow merely from having to make a choice.

 

[DIESEL]

Originally posted by Draguignan


Zarathustra is so much misunderstood that I have given up discussing him with laymen.

Don't you think that snobbish attitude is something ol' Friedrich would rip on you for...? didn't he write that as students of his work, that you should come down from the mountain and educate the "filthy masses milling about like flies in the marketplace".....he predicted that his work would be misunderstood by the masses - and I figured he created an expectation in those who did "get" his message to explain it to those that "didn't get it"

What say you to that?

 

[icepick]

Originally posted by DIESEL
Don't you think that snobbish attitude is something ol' Friedrich would rip on you for...? didn't he write that as students of his work, that you should come down from the mountain and educate the "filthy masses milling about like flies in the marketplace".....he predicted that his work would be misunderstood by the masses - and I figured he created an expectation in those who did "get" his message to explain it to those that "didn't get it"

What say you to that?

Ha ha ha!

BURN!

Damn Diesel, you are one educated muthaf*cker!

 

[So pimp its scary]

Wow, I wasn't expecting this type of response...

Diesel - There is a lot that I can say about your post... but Nietzsche was Christian, except he only believed the old testament... as per my understanding. He definately was an AFC, in Greenes "Art of Seduction" he mentions the level at which he was Seduced by (I can't think of the name, and I lent the book to a friend). The argument that I was making wasn't so much about atheisme, but on the validity of choosing your own morals.



Also, for those that mentioned that compassion being a negative, I would personnally agree that in terms of 911 or other times where humans need each other, then compassion is key to the human animal. On the other hand, I have no compassion for those that are too weak to have any cmeaningful contribution to humanity, and are too lazy to even try to do any more then to leech off the success of others.

 

[00Kevin]

this is basically the same concept of satanism.

 

[DIESEL]

Re: Wow, I wasn't expecting this type of response...

Originally posted by So pimp its scary
Diesel - There is a lot that I can say about your post...

hey pimp...

if you have the time, I'd really like to hear your opinions on my little rant earlier in the thread... good or bad.. I think this has the potential to be one of the more interesting discussions on this board in a while.

D

 

[DIESEL]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
this is basically the same concept of satanism.

of course it was.... Anton LeVey was one of the many who warped the writings of Nietzsche to suit his own ridiculous agenda.

D

 

[DIESEL]

Originally posted by icepick
Ha ha ha!

BURN!

Damn Diesel, you are one educated muthaf*cker!

It's nice to know at least one person on this board doesn't think I'm a just a roided-out meathead!

 

[Slickster]

I won't argue about any of Nietzsche's works cuz I really know very little about it.

However anyone claiming that they are one of these *Supermen* who lives by their own rules are being sooo naive its comical.

We ALL live by the rules imposed on us by society itself.

Don't even get me started.