Are women that unforgiving?

[jafyk]

I don't come in here that often these days. I guess it is part because I'm busy,or maybe almost jaded. Even now I'm starting to feel like coming back here is as a result of some failure on my part. Please, I'm not writing because I want sympathy, more like trying to get some things off my chest and maybe get some answers. The irony with the latter is that the solutions aren't always in the answer.
In my last 5 dating encounters I've had what some on here would consider a measure of success (at least in male/female relationship context not in the overall Don Juan attainment sense) considering that during my dates with these girls they all said they had a good time and the interaction was pleasant. They've all been back to my place and I've extended kissing with 2 of them and some level of kino with the others. Still I've struck out with them all. The latest which was as recent as Friday night had to leave because her female friend at whom's house she was supposed to spend the night kept calling her because she needed her comfort over some issue. Anyway, on her way out she told me this was the first time she had been on an actual date in her last previous encounters with guys. She thanked me for what she called a great evening and even kissed me some more by her truck. I called her the next day and she was in the middle of something and said I could call her back later that night I didn't call. I just think it's strange that with all that initial high interest level I haven't heard back from her.
Maybe, this is wrong to assume on my part. I feel like maybe the reason I haven't progressed further with all these women who obviously liked me is that I did something wrong. Whatever it is that I did is that unforgivable? Are women that unforgiving? I thought I had a better chance with this latest girl because one she sought me out, two in our conversations we flirted and it even got sexual...I'm just tired and I don't know what to do anymore. One of the girls I had tried to escalate with resisted and I didn't want to be too pushy I stopped now she's deleted me off her facebook, doesn't return my texts (I deleted her # later) and when I did run into her in a public place we made small conversation. Yet if I hadn't made any moves on her some here would say I was being too nice. Now I made some moves and I get ditched. Aaagh!

 

[bugsquish]

These kind of things happen to everyone. It doesn't matter where you are with your game you will always get inexplicable flakes. That's why I play it like a numbers game, always adding plates. When you get flaked, you don't sweat it because you have other options.

I know it's a strain on your mental state when you can't even get started. Even successful plate spinners will accidentally drop them all from time to time and it can be hard to gain momentum again, but hang in there! The hardest thing to do at these times is maintain your composure and not let your desperation show.

I honestly can't see any obvious red flags in your post. My own flakes, I usually attribute to the age gap, or another guy who she hasn't told me about, or because I'm not looking for anything serious, rather than anything I personally did or didn't do.

 

[Die Hard]

Here's a possibility: You are too outcome-dependant and needy, which shows through your behavior.

We often think we're not showing this, coz we do everything by the book, make the right actions and say the right things. Still, if you are too needy and outcome dependant, it will somehow show. When you're on a date, it's not what you say or what you do, it is how you say it and how you do it.

When she makes a teasing joke about some negative trait of yours, there should be no sign that it affects you. You should just laugh it off... So that's what you do and you think you passed the test... But you might've paused just half a second before laughing it off. What happens in your mind is "Hey, I don't like that joke! Oh wait, I can't it show..." and you start laughing it off. This little thought process takes half a second or even shorter, but she will pick up on it. She's probably not consciously aware of it, but it registers in her brain anyhow. The only thing she remembers later on is "I don't know why, but somehow I got the feeling that this guy was too outcome dependant and needy. I could just 'feel' it"

It's no use analysing such subtle signs and tells in your body language and composure, you can't camouflage them. If there is too much outcome-dependancy and neediness inside of you, it will show through on the outside, no matter how hard you try to control this. The answer is simply getting rid of what is inside of you, so it cannot show on the outside. Inner game is everything, outer game is simply the reflection of your inner game. Outcome dependency and neediness should be replaced by aloofness and genuine confidence.

I don't know if this applies to your problem, it's just a suggestion. Find out yourself: if you feel there's too much outcome dependcy and neediness inside you, then that's probably why things went wrong.

 

[jafyk]

Well, Mr. Die Hard if half second of a pause is all it takes to screw me over because I'm not perfect why am I even playing this game. Let me pack my bags and head on home, lol. So, your response in a nutshell is that , "Yes, women are so unforgiving". You guys talk about outcome dependence...if you kept going to work and never got paid wouldn't you react based on that? It's one thing when it's here and there but 5 dates in a row? Forgive me if I'm feeling flustered.
I likethis."inner game is everything, outer game is simply the reflection of your inner game. Outcome dependency and neediness should be replaced by aloofness and genuine confidence."

 

[bugsquish]

5 dates in a row with the same girl? Different girls? Die Hard is totally right in what he says, and IMO the most effective way to keep that kind of cool is to know you have other options. Never put your eggs all in one basket. Nevertheless, you can't underestimate factors outside of your control!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The latest which was as recent as Friday night had to leave because her female friend at whom's house she was supposed to spend the night kept calling her because she needed her comfort over some issue. Anyway, on her way out she told me this was the first time she had been on an actual date in her last previous encounters with guys. She thanked me for what she called a great evening and even kissed me some more by her truck. I called her the next day and she was in the middle of something and said I could call her back later that night I didn't call. I just think it's strange that with all that initial high interest level I haven't heard back from her.

I realize this is speculation, but from this exchange I get the impression that the women you're pursuing are substandard women, or women with issues. Yes, yes, I know they're all substandard, however this reads more like an episode of Hannah Montana. Adults dating as adults don't devise lame exits like this, nor do they offer confessions of 'normal' dates to a guy they have a high IL in. Unfortunately our present day acculturation encourages women to cling to an adolescent skill set when it comes to dating. Mix this into a girl (not a woman) already lacking social intelligence and you have a woman who's the equivalent of your typical Asperger's guy.

You do yourself a disservice by using this encounter (or others like it) as some benchmark for your overall success. Additionally, you're allowing an experience with a substandard woman to discourage yourself from growing and maturing into a more natural DJ.

Also, most guys on the DJ path, particularly those new to it, have a tendency to misread interest levels in women. This is learning process a lot of rAFCs struggle with, primarily because they're unaccustomed to getting actual IOIs, but also because they 'want' to see high IL as a result of their new aptitude and understanding of rudimentary Game. There is a psychological investment that newly self-aware Men have to make in switching their psyches from a Beta/AFC mindset to an Alpha/DJ one. This switch entails a lot of risk for the ego so it's common to 'want' to see positive results in as short a time possible to justify the trade off.

Put this into your head: There are no failures, there are only results. They may not be the results you'd hoped for, but they are there to learn from, to improve upon. In fact the only real failure is not to learn from, and not to apply new strategies from the results you get. It's actually a good thing you're struggling now instead of having had some immediate runaway success. You will always learn more from defeat than you will victory. Success makes us lazy. We fail to observe and internalize the factors and conditions that made us win while we bask in the good feelings and rewards of success.

 

[scrouds]

Anyone that's put themselves out there even a little has probably been in both situations where at one point they moved to fast and shut the chick out. The other situation is moving too slow and the chick loses interest.

For all those times, I realized I wasn't playing around, having fun. Teasing, etc making it funa nd sexually charged. Whether or not you're going to close that night, its necessary.

 

[jafyk]

5 dates in a row with the same girl? Different girls? Die Hard is totally right in what he says, and IMO the most effective way to keep that kind of cool is to know you have other options. Never put your eggs all in one basket. Nevertheless, you can't underestimate factors outside of your control!

People like you who insist not to read with an understanding but just jump quickly to offer opinion are annoying. I said 5 different girls. Multiple dates/hang out with 2 of them.

 

[jafyk]

I realize this is speculation, but from this exchange I get the impression that the women you're pursuing are substandard women, or women with issues. Yes, yes, I know they're all substandard, however this reads more like an episode of Hannah Montana. Adults dating as adults don't devise lame exits like this, nor do they offer confessions of 'normal' dates to a guy they have a high IL in. Unfortunately our present day acculturation encourages women to cling to an adolescent skill set when it comes to dating. Mix this into a girl (not a woman) already lacking social intelligence and you have a woman who's the equivalent of your typical Asperger's guy.

You do yourself a disservice by using this encounter (or others like it) as some benchmark for your overall success. Additionally, you're allowing an experience with a substandard woman to discourage yourself from growing and maturing into a more natural DJ.

Also, most guys on the DJ path, particularly those new to it, have a tendency to misread interest levels in women. This is learning process a lot of rAFCs struggle with, primarily because they're unaccustomed to getting actual IOIs, but also because they 'want' to see high IL as a result of their new aptitude and understanding of rudimentary Game. There is a psychological investment that newly self-aware Men have to make in switching their psyches from a Beta/AFC mindset to an Alpha/DJ one. This switch entails a lot of risk for the ego so it's common to 'want' to see positive results in as short a time possible to justify the trade off.

Put this into your head: There are no failures, there are only results. They may not be the results you'd hoped for, but they are there to learn from, to improve upon. In fact the only real failure is not to learn from, and not to apply new strategies from the results you get. It's actually a good thing you're struggling now instead of having had some immediate runaway success. You will always learn more from defeat than you will victory. Success makes us lazy. We fail to observe and internalize the factors and conditions that made us win while we bask in the good feelings and rewards of success.

Rollo thank you so much. I always see things differently when you offer your insights. I guess I needed a lil push from you guys and sometimes its easier to make sense of things when others explain it to you. So, thanks guys. Although if Rollo's theory is 100% accurate then it means there's just a handful of decent women worth dating out there and I'm going to do some summer cleaning on my phone and facebook. I don'tt know about you guys butwhen it comes to girls and dating summer is one of my favorite season. I tend to meet lots of girls and from past experience a lot of my relationships have started during this period.

 

[jafyk]

Here's your issue.

You are able to get these women back to your place on the first date, so that's a success right there. What you're doing wrong is that you're coming on too strong trying to have sex with them after the first date. That shows neediness. Most girls don't want to fck you on the first date because they don't want to be perceived as sluts in your eyes.

For girls you pick up from the bar/club, it's a different story. These girls are usually down to have sex with you by going to your place from the bar. But for girls you go on regular dates with, it's a different story. You can test them lightly and see how far they will let you go but stop immediately if they resist. In most cases, don't even attempt to have sex with them after the first date. Just kiss and that's it. I guarantee you, they will let you hit it after the second date.

I'm speaking from experience.

Sir Brown Rice (is that your favorite food? lol) Please don't get me wrong I'm not expecting to fck every girl I meet on the first date who comes to my place. Like I said I kinoed and kissed with said girls didn't try to reach into their pants or anything like that. Just showed them I was sexually into them. Even the last girl from Friday says to me she's disappointed she didn't see me naked (cos i told her to let herself in as I'd be in the shower) and I told her if she wants to see me naked I'd have to see her naked too. She said not today and I said ok then. Oh, and i have fckd some regular girls I didn't pick up from the bar on the first date. Honestly, if I fck a girl on the first date that's best case scenario but I'm in no hurry I really just care to have something solid with a girl in the long run because i don't care for meaningless one time stands. If I'm to analyze correctly everything you guys have said so far then slipping up with a girl in those situations are usually unforgivable offences from their stand point. If this is true so I should just go ahead and NEXT them. Also one of the above posters had mentioned spinning plates...well, mr. building plates aint easy.

 

[Jitterbug]

Storm in a tea cup.

It's pretty simple. Girls with high IL still want you to initiate, so pick up that phone and call her again. Don't make it a big drama.

 

[Brownrice]

Sir Brown Rice (is that your favorite food? lol) Please don't get me wrong I'm not expecting to fck every girl I meet on the first date who comes to my place. Like I said I kinoed and kissed with said girls didn't try to reach into their pants or anything like that. Just showed them I was sexually into them. Even the last girl from Friday says to me she's disappointed she didn't see me naked (cos i told her to let herself in as I'd be in the shower) and I told her if she wants to see me naked I'd have to see her naked too. She said not today and I said ok then. Oh, and i have fckd some regular girls I didn't pick up from the bar on the first date. Honestly, if I fck a girl on the first date that's best case scenario but I'm in no hurry I really just care to have something solid with a girl in the long run because i don't care for meaningless one time stands. If I'm to analyze correctly everything you guys have said so far then slipping up with a girl in those situations are usually unforgivable offences from their stand point. If this is true so I should just go ahead and NEXT them. Also one of the above posters had mentioned spinning plates...well, mr. building plates aint easy.

Lol yeah man, that's my favorite food. Ok then, sounds like you're doing everything right. Don't blame yourself for these girls acting immature. Like one of the above posters said, it's likely the quality of girls you're dealing with that's causing this issue.

 

[jafyk]

Storm in a tea cup.

It's pretty simple. Girls with high IL still want you to initiate, so pick up that phone and call her again. Don't make it a big drama.

pfffft what? How many calls back does it take to show a girl that I'm interested...sorry, maybe desperate is the word, lol. When she left for her friends place I texted her to make sure she got back ok. Then there's that phone call to which she said I should call her later that night. If I can call her why can't she call me back if her IL is that high? It's not like she's the last girl out there. In the first place she approached me. Monsieur Jitterbug I agree to disagree with you.

 

[sodbuster]

YOU are treating them "special"....like a woman you'd like to date. Treat them like the ONS girls. Show them you are great and make THEM work to form the "relationship",don't date them thinking you want a relationship with them.

 

[jafyk]

I get all the other advices being offered in reference to my thread but it seems no one is really taking a shot at the title of the thread, which is what I really want to know here. So, just because I don't treat a woman as an ONS and she acts otherwise. Then it's an unforgivable offense that means that relationship (the word being used loosely here) will never get another chance? This is what I'm asking in my original question. If you slip up with a girl does it mean...ah forget it. Reading the book of Pook is making me not to really care about these things anymore.

 

[sodbuster]

it's simple....YES they are that unforgiving when you first date. IF they are attractive, they have a line of d1cks down the block and around the corner waiting for their shot. Just like you do with telemarketers,they are trying to save time.

THEY have to have made an INVESTMENT in you[time,sex, working hard to land you],before a little mistake is overridden by what they have invested in you.

 

[jafyk]

it's simple....YES they are that unforgiving when you first date. IF they are attractive, they have a line of d1cks down the block and around the corner waiting for their shot. Just like you do with telemarketers,they are trying to save time.

THEY have to have made an INVESTMENT in you[time,sex, working hard to land you],before a little mistake is overridden by what they have invested in you.

Thank you, this simplifies things for me. When I start dating or try to date a girl and she starts losing interest (probably some I did or maybe didn't do) I don't have to waste time trying to raise her interest level but just move on to the next one.