Are we more civilized today than we were 100 years ago?

[JoeMarron]

ALL regions of the world were affected by imperialism at one point or another. North America started out as a place of refuge for persecuted religious minorities from Europe. Australia was originally a penal colony. Asia was used as a dumping ground for opium and other drugs (look up Opium Wars). As another posted pointed out, no group of people has been persecuted throughout history as much as the Jews, yet you don't see too many Jews living on food stamps and begging for handouts, do you?

People who make excuses and wallow in self-pity rarely become successful. The same applies to groups of people.

Asia isn't exactly a paradise of wealth either. Lol are you really comparing Jewish history in America to blacks? Look the fact is that these groups of people didn't create their situation on their own. Just like blacks can't whine and blame whites for all their problems, you can't claim that all they're doing is wallowing in self-pity. There's accountability on both sides.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Asia isn't exactly a paradise of wealth either. Lol are you really comparing Jewish history in America to blacks?

I am comparing Jewish history in the world to black history in the world. Believe it or not, America is not the only country out there that matters. As a group, Jews are wealthy and successful no matter where you go and blacks are poor no matter where you go. Both groups were, at one time, persecuted minorities (Jews much longer than blacks). Jews worked hard to overcome their disadvantages and are now successful as a result. Blacks chose to wallow in self pity, which got them nowhere. Of course, I am generalizing; there are individuals in both groups who fall outside the trend.

 

[JoeMarron]

I am comparing Jewish history in the world to black history in the world. Believe it or not, America is not the only country out there that matters. As a group, Jews are wealthy and successful no matter where you go and blacks are poor no matter where you go. Both groups were, at one time, persecuted minorities (Jews much longer than blacks). Jews worked hard to overcome their disadvantages and are now successful as a result. Blacks chose to wallow in self pity, which got them nowhere. Of course, I am generalizing; there are individuals in both groups who fall outside the trend.

The two groups are still incomparable. Regardless of how much Jews were persecuted they were always a part of western civilization. The modern world is based on western civilization so of course they're gonna be more successful than blacks. Africa for whatever reason wasn't nearly as advanced as Europe. Take that into consideration plus the exploitation they went through from European imperialism and of course they're still gonna be playing catch up today. People like to look at Africa and make illogical claims that blacks are lazy, stupid, wallowing in self pity, inferior etc. without looking at how they got in the situation they're in. Even if they were proven to be objectively inferior, they still deserve respect as human beings. Something that you obviously don't do since you're idolizing a period of history where many aspects of Western civilization justified treating the rest of the world like sh!t because they felt themselves superior. Yes society today is fvcked up but don't treat a century ago as some sort of golden age.

 

[Jaylan]

Before the Race for Africa, and before Europeans ever set foot on the continent, there existed empires all across that continent. But they dont teach people that in history class.

People grow up thinking Africa was always some war torn land of tribalism and strife. That definitely wasnt always the case. European imperialism and exploitation of the continents resources has much to do with the state of the Africa today. Corrupt African leaders definitely have a share of the blame, but do consider who backs some of them.

Also, people need to look at agricultural protectionism in America and Europe, which basically makes it so that African agricultural industries are undercut in trade. Africa could definitely make a lot of money and feed a lot of people if it werent from those policies. Id say thats the biggest thing keeping Africa (both Northern and Sub-Saharan) from thriving economically.

Its really hypociritical when you think about it. Large Western companies have NO problem going into poor countries to produce things cheaply and sell them back in their home nations, all the while paying local workers like crap and exploiting the land. But god forbid farmers from poorer regions of the world get a fair shot at competing with our domestic farmers. Nope....lets undercut the poor foreign farmer, and use tariffs and quotas, so the our domestic farmers are greatly protected. All the while the foreign farmer cant make decent profits selling to the West, and the price of his food goes up because of it. But then guess whos able to undercut his prices in his own nation? Thats right, the western farmer can export and undercut him in the poor guys own home nation.

Im all for Americans protecting the interests of our farmers here at home....but when it becomes a detriment to poorer folks in other nations, thats just wrong. Nevermind the hypocrisy of exploiting those poor nations when we want cheap labor and resources, but then not allowing foreign farmers the same kind of benefits selling abroad.

 

[Merris]

Depends on what you mean by more civilized.

I personally think we're pretty much the same. We just have more sophisticated channels to pour the "barbarian" through most of the time.

 

[Jaylan]

All isolated peoples developed technology more slowly. Hence Africa and all native cultures. People closer to trade routes developed civilizations far more quickly due to an influx of ideas. IMO Sub-Saharan Africa will have its day in the future.

It may be wishful thinking, but I think one day in the future most continents will be very industrialized with the bulk of countries being first world nations. I could foresee a futuristic diverse society existing in many corners of the globe.

And I forget who said it, but an alien invasion would probably be the only thing that could really push humans toward that sort of togetherness. Itll be like Star Trek where Earth is one united rock, and crap like race and nationality dont matter.

As I said, maybe just wishful thinking.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Before the Race for Africa, and before Europeans ever set foot on the continent, there existed empires all across that continent. But they dont teach people that in history class.

Not true of sub-saharan Africa and there's no credible evidence of it. If there was a shred of evidence it would be taught constantly in history class, just like cultural achievements of ancient middle east and the far east are exaggerated while European history is downplayed.

People grow up thinking Africa was always some war torn land of tribalism and strife. That definitely wasnt always the case. European imperialism and exploitation of the continents resources has much to do with the state of the Africa today

.

Yep blame whitey. It's always whitey's fault. They held down a whole continent of people filled with natural resources. That's totally ridiculous.

Its really hypociritical when you think about it. Large Western companies have NO problem going into poor countries to produce things cheaply and sell them back in their home nations, all the while paying local workers like crap and exploiting the land. But god forbid farmers from poorer regions of the world get a fair shot at competing with our domestic farmers. Nope....lets undercut the poor foreign farmer, and use tariffs and quotas, so the our domestic farmers are greatly protected. All the while the foreign farmer cant make decent profits selling to the West, and the price of his food goes up because of it. But then guess whos able to undercut his prices in his own nation? Thats right, the western farmer can export and undercut him in the poor guys own home nation.

Im all for Americans protecting the interests of our farmers here at home....but when it becomes a detriment to poorer folks in other nations, thats just wrong. Nevermind the hypocrisy of exploiting those poor nations when we want cheap labor and resources, but then not allowing foreign farmers the same kind of benefits selling abroad.

This just a bunch of nonsense really. The only person really getting screwed by free trade is the US workers.

It may be wishful thinking, but I think one day in the future most continents will be very industrialized with the bulk of countries being first world nations. I could foresee a futuristic diverse society existing in many corners of the globe.

This isn't just wishful thinking is naive. There are limited resources and if you spread out resources evenly around the globe to 8 billion people, you would have high prices and limited supply everyone would be equally poor. What really happening is weath is being transfered more away from Western contries and its citizens to the far east and to a smale percentage of very wealthy.

 

[JoeMarron]

It may be wishful thinking, but I think one day in the future most continents will be very industrialized with the bulk of countries being first world nations. I could foresee a futuristic diverse society existing in many corners of the globe.

And I forget who said it, but an alien invasion would probably be the only thing that could really push humans toward that sort of togetherness. Itll be like Star Trek where Earth is one united rock, and crap like race and nationality dont matter.

As I said, maybe just wishful thinking.

Yeah several regions of the world were dominant at different times. China was more advanced than the west for centuries. Roman civilization was far more advanced than the groups of people in Northwest Europe who dominated the world during the ages of Imperialism and Colonialism. When you look at history it really isn't surprising that some regions are lagging behind. I don't think we'll need something as dramatic as an alien invasion to create a world like that. As technology develops and the spread of ideas increases eventually the rest of the world will catch up. At that point primitive mindsets like racial superiority will have no merit and there will be no need for masses of foreigners to immigrate to the west.

 

[JoeMarron]

Not true of sub-saharan Africa and there's no credible evidence of it. If there was a shred of evidence it would be taught cosntantly in history class, just like culture achievements of ancient middle east and the far east are exaggerated while European history is downplayed.

The Mali, Songhai, Ethiopian and several other empires would like to speak to you. Sure they weren't nearly as advanced as other well known empires but they did exist.

 

[Stagger Lee]

The Mali, Songhai, Ethiopian and several other empires would like to speak to you. Sure they weren't nearly as advanced as other well known empires but they did exist.

You can call those empires but a big group of unadvance, primitive people are still unadvanced and primitive. And whitey wasn't around to blame for their lack of ingenuity.

 

[JoeMarron]

You can call those empires but a big group of unadvance, primitive people are still unadvanced and primitive. And whitey wasn't around to blame for their lack of ingenuity.

Yes they were primitive compared to other empires and yes whitey isn't to blame. Its kinda hard to build an advance empire in an isolated land full of jungles and deserts. If whitey was in Africa instead of blacks they would've had similar results.

 

[Jaylan]

The Mali, Songhai, Ethiopian and several other empires would like to speak to you. Sure they weren't nearly as advanced as other well known empires but they did exist.

This.

Why are some white people so ignorant of non-Western history? And why are some so ready to dismiss some of the great things non-Westerners have done through history?

Yes they were primitive compared to other empires and yes whitey isn't to blame. Its kinda hard to build an advance empire in an isolated land full of jungles and deserts. If whitey was in Africa instead of blacks they would've had similar results.

Dont waste your time arguing with him. Clearly this clown hasnt studied Africa enough to really know the extent of how organized and great some of those empires where.

People always focus on Ancient Egypt (which had black citizens and black pharaohs through the years), but they love ignoring every other part of African history. People like that only get their knowledge from 5 minute google searches.

Meanwhile people like me have actually done research papers on this stuff and can laugh at their ignorance. I wouldnt be the only one either, because historians do the same thing when they hear ignorant fools trying to put down African history.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Its kinda hard to build an advance empire in an isolated land full of jungles and deserts. If whitey was in Africa instead of blacks they would've had similar results.

Not really true though. The Northern climates are much harsher to advance in. It takes a lot of ingenuity and resourcefullness to even survive in them let alone advance. Besides, resourceful people had the sense and ability to move to other locations even tens of thousands of years ago.

The bottomline is it's not really anyone or anything else to blame for any nationalities' accomplishments or failures but their own actions and abilities.

 

[Jaylan]

Not really true though. The Northern climates are much harsher to advance in. It takes a lot of ingenuity and resourcefullness to even survive in them let alone advance. Besides, resourceful people had the sense and ability to move to other locations even tens of thousands of years ago.

The bottomline is it's not really anyone or anything else to blame for any nartionalities' accomplishments or failures but their own actions and abilities.

How ignorant are you?

Europe had plenty of contact with parts of Asia. Trade is what helps civilizations advance. Africa didnt have any of that same trade with Asia in its history, and by the time outsiders came to the continent, the outsiders were trying to exploit the land rather than establish trade.

And guess what, thousands of years ago, when people were moving to other locations, guess who they were originally? THEY WERE AFRICAN, and then climate changed them into the different races we see today. Or lord...I couldnt imagine some of you people trying to have these discussions with historians or anthropologists. Youd get laughed out of the room.

And bull crap on your last point. Exploitation and discrimination by one people onto another people has as much a hand in holding those people back as their own actions do. You wanna tell me that the crappy conditions many modern day Native Americans live in on their reservations are solely their fault? Would genocide and exploitation of Native Americans by colonists have nothing to do with that?

Dont be daft bro.

 

[Bokanovsky]

The Mali, Songhai, Ethiopian and several other empires would like to speak to you. Sure they weren't nearly as advanced as other well known empires but they did exist.

And what are the great accomplishments of these "empires"? Oh wait, there's aren't any. To even call them "empires" is misleading.

Yes they were primitive compared to other empires and yes whitey isn't to blame. Its kinda hard to build an advance empire in an isolated land full of jungles and deserts. If whitey was in Africa instead of blacks they would've had similar results.

Except Africa has tons of natural resources, is not isolated at all (it is actually closer to the Middle East, the cradle of civilization, than Western Europe, let alone China and Japan), has lots of arable land, etc.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Not true of sub-saharan Africa and there's no credible evidence of it. If there was a shred of evidence it would be taught constantly in history class, just like cultural achievements of ancient middle east and the far east are exaggerated while European history is downplayed.

Words like "credible" and "evidence" have little meaning to people like Gaylan. It's all about fell-good afrocentric revisionist history, bro!

 

[Jaylan]

And what are the great accomplishments of these "empires"? Oh wait, there's aren't any. To even call them "empires" is misleading.

Except Africa has tons of natural resources, is not isolated at all (it is actually closer to the Middle East, the cradle of civilization, than Western Europe, let alone China and Japan), has lots of arable land, etc.

Words like "credible" and "evidence" have little meaning to people like Gaylan. It's all about fell-good afrocentric revisionist history, bro!

Hey clown....you do realize that imperialists exploited the land for its resources and kept Africans from profiting right? Hell some still do when it comes to the diamond trade.

And about the arable land....I love how you missed my post on agriculture protectionism. But I guess since youre so ignorant of those policies that you just ignore it rather than make yourself look even more uneducated. Many economists and activists have written about this issue, and how it keeps Africa from truly thriving in an area it excels in.

The West is already scared of China becoming powerful, as well as India or Russia one day getting ahead of them. So Im not surprised that they have policies which stifle Africas movement forward. How about you do some research and get back to me with some real points regarding this agricultural issue.

No idiotic insults, no double talk or dancing around the issue by whining about so called "revisionist history". How about you actually look this sh!!t up and reply with factual points.

Can you do that?

 

[Stagger Lee]

How ignorant are you?

Europe had plenty of contact with parts of Asia. Trade is what helps civilizations advance. Africa didnt have any of that same trade with Asia in its history, and by the time outsiders came to the continent, the outsiders were trying to exploit the land rather than establish trade.

The West also suffered many, many barbaric invasion and invaders that nearly destroyed it. So contact and trade is not always positive. But no one was preventing Africa from trading with the middle east and Asia, or building sailing ships and learning to navigate. Nothing was preventing that but themselves.

And guess what, thousands of years ago, when people were moving to other locations, guess who they were originally? THEY WERE AFRICAN, and then climate changed them into the different races we see today.

Even if that is really the case that doesn't mean they were originally black. Most likely the first modern humans were close to what North Africans and middle eastern people are who are also not black. Very light complexioned whites, blacks, asians etc are isolated phenotypes. It doesn't matter whether the earliest modern humans came out of Africa, the middle east or orginated in multiple locations they still differ.

And bull crap on your last point. Exploitation and discrimination by one people onto another people has as much a hand in holding those people back as their own actions do. You wanna tell me that the crappy conditions many modern day Native Americans live in on their reservations are solely their fault? Would genocide and exploitation of Native Americans by colonists have nothing to do with that?

Yes I am saying that it's peoples' own actions and their own group that holds them back. Some Native American tribes are quiet successful. They are all at a higher living standard than they were before Europeans arrived. They have if anything more oportunities than anyone else to make something of themselves.

 

[Jaylan]

More opportunities mean nothing when many of your people still live in poverty and 95% of your population were killed off. Opportunities mean nothing when imperialists made it so that the first peoples on the continent now make up 3% or less of people living here now. All thanks to genocide and being bred out of existence through race mixing. And race mixing isnt bad in its on right...but you can be sure your culture will continue to die off when you have less mates to choose from thanks to genocide by foreign invaders.

Sorry bro...if I was native Id feel my people would be much better of if colonists never set foot on the continent.

Its arrogant of you to say what standard of living was better for Natives. They were doing just great before Europeans interfered. They sure as hell werent thinking "damn we are so lame and primitive...we need to move forward as a society and the white man will help us"

Get real.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Northern climate was ass-backwards until the Romans brought them civilization. Still took them hundreds of years of searching through the rubble to figure things out lol. Civilizations rise and fall, period.

Europe was not as backwards as typically presented in history class. Early on it was sparsely populated since it was harsh to survive there vs the Meditteranean. And was constantly being invaded by various nomadic tribes.