Are sexually aggressive, but unattractive, men considered "creepy"?

[sstype]

Really good responses. The whole "creepy" phenomenon really demonstrates how men have not caught up with the reality of modern-day dating. Too many men out there still have this traditionalist mindset that "no" means "maybe" and think women that refuse to show interest are just playing "hard to get" or "being coy" when the reality is they just aren't interested.

I think a good takeaway from all of this is to avoid hitting on women that, by their body language towards you, suggest that they aren't interested.

Average/below average guys desperately cling on to believing that they can somehow sweep her off her feet by being overly nice/charming/suave/funny when really it just comes off try-hard and to many women, creepy. Which i think if you were to dig deeper into the meaning of when she says it this is what she thinks.

"I haven't given this man any indication that I'm interested in him , why is he still making romantic/sexual advances towards me?"

Creepy really means you lack social intuition.

When dealing with modern women, the aggressive sexual/flirtatious approach (in the initial stages) is social suicide and considered "creepy" if you're not exceptionally attractive/famous/rich etc. Women only complain about the men they ALREADY WANT SEXUALLY lacking confidence or balls when they fail to pickup the subtle female come ons. The coy woman is a myth. All you have to do is watch a famous celebrity walk into a bar to see how aggressive women truly can be. It never meant "I wish more random men would approach me and try to pick me up!"



Women today are more paranoid and more ruthless in their dealings with men.
If they aren't interested, you will know through observing their body language. There's no reason to make unsolicited advances anymore. I've had plenty of random women strike up conversations with me and flirt without me having to put in any effort. Even if I do make advances, its only after I've gotten some sort of "signal" from her green-lighting me to take action.

If I don't feel any sort of vibe from a girl, then I treat her like I would treat any one else, with polite indifference. This makes me more valued in my social group as a guy who "gets it," builds trust with her "he's not trying to get into my pants like all the other guys" and may lead to a future hookup with her or other women in her network.

Maybe if all men operated like this, women would appreciate and feel flattered when ANY guy gave them attention, but of course I won't be holding my breath anytime soon.

 

[Poonani Maker]

Trust me the woman who SAY they are into him now are into his fame and status; they would only call him a creeper if he was the check out dude at trader joes.

A famous dude could piss on a girl and she would slurp it up and call it lemonade...

Yes, this is true guys. I know from 1st-hand exp. I'm in a quasi-famous position. I'm truly blessed to be where I am in life. I wouldn't have it any other way. Before, when I was every bit the check out dude low-wage dude at trader joes (T-t-t-t-otally poor), women, once they found out my struggling lot in life, passed me up left and right because of it. Now, that when especially they know what socially acceptable job I'm in etc etc, you know something you can make a decent career out of, then they look at me, they want me, but because I've got options, I can't settle with just one. I can't decide. I guess I'm like a b!tch in that sense, that I get bored with the same woman, and no longer want her. You can tell that they are insecure too, because they sense that I don't want them, or that I've had better, and I have. It's just the way it is.

 

[Duffdog]

about this subject, I drive by the Facebook headquarters every day at work. Let me tell you something-- when the ugliest possible guy drives out of facebook with a brand new Audi R8 v10... do you think that ALL cute women simply redefine that guy as "hot"? Of course they do, there is so much vag around that town right now as the girls are waiting to see which employees become millionaires overnight. I bet that dorky computer nerd who suddenly became 540million dollars richer overnight might have better luck with these hot chics now than when he could barely afford his macbook.

I could be wrong, I'm sure all those girls are just waiting to see which nerd has the most "confidence"...

 

[Burroughs]

about this subject, I drive by the Facebook headquarters every day at work. Let me tell you something-- when the ugliest possible guy drives out of facebook with a brand new Audi R8 v10... do you think that ALL cute women simply redefine that guy as "hot"? Of course they do, there is so much vag around that town right now as the girls are waiting to see which employees become millionaires overnight. I bet that dorky computer nerd who suddenly became 540million dollars richer overnight might have better luck with these hot chics now than when he could barely afford his macbook.

I could be wrong, I'm sure all those girls are just waiting to see which nerd has the most "confidence"...

Oh I can imagine the hb9+ goldiggers around Menlo park are licking their chops as IPO season is back..looking for the next socially clueless nerd to suck dry in all possible ways.

I can relate to this, I have family money but I never talk about it..I dress down, rock style and my car is an old Ford Galaxie...some chicks initially give me the cold shoulder...but as soon as those same girls find out who my family is the eyelashes begin to flutter and the tits start to bounce a bit more around my way....after seeing this a few hundred times you start to wonder what truly motivates women $$ $$

 

[origin138]

Really good responses. The whole "creepy" phenomenon really demonstrates how men have not caught up with the reality of modern-day dating. Too many men out there still have this traditionalist mindset that "no" means "maybe" and think women that refuse to show interest are just playing "hard to get" or "being coy" when the reality is they just aren't interested.

I think a good takeaway from all of this is to avoid hitting on women that, by their body language towards you, suggest that they aren't interested.

Average/below average guys desperately cling on to believing that they can somehow sweep her off her feet by being overly nice/charming/suave/funny when really it just comes off try-hard and to many women, creepy. Which i think if you were to dig deeper into the meaning of when she says it this is what she thinks.

"I haven't given this man any indication that I'm interested in him , why is he still making romantic/sexual advances towards me?"

Creepy really means you lack social intuition.

When dealing with modern women, the aggressive sexual/flirtatious approach (in the initial stages) is social suicide and considered "creepy" if you're not exceptionally attractive/famous/rich etc. Women only complain about the men they ALREADY WANT SEXUALLY lacking confidence or balls when they fail to pickup the subtle female come ons. The coy woman is a myth. All you have to do is watch a famous celebrity walk into a bar to see how aggressive women truly can be. It never meant "I wish more random men would approach me and try to pick me up!"



Women today are more paranoid and more ruthless in their dealings with men.
If they aren't interested, you will know through observing their body language. There's no reason to make unsolicited advances anymore. I've had plenty of random women strike up conversations with me and flirt without me having to put in any effort. Even if I do make advances, its only after I've gotten some sort of "signal" from her green-lighting me to take action.

If I don't feel any sort of vibe from a girl, then I treat her like I would treat any one else, with polite indifference. This makes me more valued in my social group as a guy who "gets it," builds trust with her "he's not trying to get into my pants like all the other guys" and may lead to a future hookup with her or other women in her network.

Maybe if all men operated like this, women would appreciate and feel flattered when ANY guy gave them attention, but of course I won't be holding my breath anytime soon.

Lots of great posts here, but this one stood out to me simply because it mirrors personal experience.

To be perfectly honest, I've never been one to frequently approach women. Being very introverted, and not someone overly quick on his feet, I've often found spontaneous game particularly challenging.

What I have noticed though, is that the more my personal life is on lockdown - steady job, bills paid, physical & emotional health, having goals and direction in life, no debt, standing up for my values, having hobbies, comfortable in my own skin, etc – the better my successes with women. There isn’t much of a need to even approach anymore to be honest.

A man that has his life in order is highly desirable to just about any woman. This kind of man is rarely labeled “creepy” or “creeper” because his reality is all that matters to him. How can any woman be offended by that? My personal experience has been that interested women will usually approach, or place themselves directly in the vicinity in an effort to initiate conversation.

The security and confidence that naturally exudes from a man who has his life completely under control is a powerful aphrodisiac for women. Women can spot this man from a mile away, and they’ll be the ones competing with each other over who gets him first. He's the one who decides if the woman fits into his game plan, not the other way around.

I'm not saying one's looks don't factor in to some extent and I'm not saying one doesn't have to stick to the rules about AFC behavior, but let's face it, if the tables were turned, would a man rather have an HB9 who is a train wreck emotionally (BPD, NPD, ACoA) who reeks of desperation and the need for attention/money/easy life/someone to take care of them? Or an HB 5 or 6 who has her life under control and would do anything to please? I guess the answer to that depends on if the guy is a capn save a ho/white knight, or a secure alpha who has taken ownership of his life.

There are many men out there, but only a fraction of these men have genuine mastery of their lives. I work with a guy who has it all by today’s standards…except one thing. He’s a 32 year old whining b!tch. He’s great-looking, drives a ridiculously nice car, is co-owner of our company, has money, doesn’t really care about much….but women never stick around for this guy. Why? Because he whines like a little kid and women end up taking care of him like he’s a little brother. He’s allowed ONE bad experience with an ex to taint his view of females…and they sniff it out pretty quickly and ditch him fast. All his other attributes suddenly hold no value to them because he can’t manage his emotions like a man. As much as this guy has, his life is far from being on lockdown because he can’t even manage himself properly, and therefore fails at being alpha. How sad.


Many women these days will approach, or they'll make being approached much easier, if there is interest on her part. Many women, contrary to popular belief, do sympathize with men when it comes to getting rejected. Many women will try to make it easier by meeting half way, sometimes more than half way, if there is interest on her part…just my 2 cents.

 

[bigneil]

Sexual Harassment in the Workplace (Tom Brady on Saturday Night Live)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsZlLDGs604

 

[origin138]

Sexual Harassment in the Workplace (Tom Brady on Saturday Night Live)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsZlLDGs604

Hits it on the head. Great post lol.

 

[davewe]

This thread has bothered me from the beginning and here's why:

First, I would prefer that we refer to sexually assertive men, not aggressive. Sexuallly aggressive has a different conotation.

But what does it actually mean when a woman calls a sexually assertive but "unattractive" man creepy. Certainly all women have the right to say "I am not interested," or "I dont find him attractive," or "His game sucks," or "Where's the cash," or whatever she wants. I have no problem with any woman saying no.

But by defining it as "he's creepy" it allows her to not have to take any responsibility. She did not have to make or communicate a decision to say "no." His sexual assertiveness is, in and of itself, wrong. So what are women actually saying when they throw out "creepy?" A less than handsome man should not be sexually assertive; a man without proper game - should never make a move; a man without cash or fame - the same; a guy who's older - no way. It's not her fault or lack of desire to give him a chance. It's his fault for even considering being assertive.

And what's worse in this thread is that apparently some of you agree with the women and by doing that empower their continued nonsense. Sexual assertiveness ought to be man's nature; not just a good looking man, not just a rich man, but all men.

If we allow women to define the term; that only good looking, or skilled, or young, or rich and famous men get to be sexually assertive - then we all lose!

 

[Mike32ct]

I agree that this is how women THINK. The do refer to a less attractive guy being sexually assertive as creepy.

I'm just agreeing that this is reality based on how women see it. I don't agree with the concept at all. If I could change things, I would.

I would never call a less attractive chick or much older woman that approached me a creep.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

I would never call a less attractive chick or much older woman that approached me a creep.

Same here. I find the whole 'creep' creeper thing ridiculous and infantile.

The 'creep' term seems to be used by women for various purposes.

I've seen it used by attention wh0res and just for an ego boost from low self-esteem women to brag to their friends that they are 'desirable' and have such 'high standards'.

Creeper is a term for melodramatic chicks who 'complain' yet love to brag to their friends about 'stalkers' on their Facebook page. The same term that chicks who watch Jersey Shore, The Kardashians, constantly attention seek on Facebook, think they are a reality T.V. psuedo celeb, twitter etc. use. It's for chicks who have no mind, self awareness, or have any type of character. Basically media brainwashed retards. Nothing more.

T.V. and the media has told dimwitted women of America:

Normal looking guy with things going for him who expresses interest in me = creeper.

Hot model looking guy with possibly nothing going for him who expresses interest in me = Here's my number.

 

[Burroughs]

Same here. I find the whole 'creep' creeper thing ridiculous and infantile.

The 'creep' term seems to be used by women for various purposes.

I've seen it used by attention wh0res and just for an ego boost from low self-esteem women to brag to their friends that they are 'desirable' and have such 'high standards'.

Creeper is a term for melodramatic chicks who 'complain' yet love to brag to their friends about 'stalkers' on their Facebook page. The same term that chicks who watch Jersey Shore, The Kardashians, constantly attention seek on Facebook, think they are a reality T.V. psuedo celeb, twitter etc. use. It's for chicks who have no mind, self awareness, or have any type of character. Basically media brainwashed retards. Nothing more.

T.V. and the media has told dimwitted women of America:

Normal looking guy with things going for him who expresses interest in me = creeper.

Hot model looking guy with possibly nothing going for him who expresses interest in me = Here's my number.

100% agree.

Once you get put in the 'creeper' mode there is very little you can do outside having REAL social value to get out.

I know first hand. In college I was a science major and had a band. I had (have) the rock look. Freshman year women distanced themselves from me cause I'm not traditionally clean cut, preppy, j crew, tom brady (haha)...next year band starts to take off we get media attention GIRLS ALL OVER ME...I mean it was a total fvcking nite and day!

Without fame I was a 'creeper' with a little fame it was 'hey i'll give you a handjob in the bathroom'...hilarious.

Women are out for the money and the looks when they are young..as they get older after 24-26 they start to look for security...that's when the 'creepers' who have stability become desirable...my advice to former 'creepers' don't fall for it...p!ss on these chicks and walk away laughing..don't even give them a towel to mop up

 

[nismo-4]

about this subject, I drive by the Facebook headquarters every day at work. Let me tell you something-- when the ugliest possible guy drives out of facebook with a brand new Audi R8 v10... do you think that ALL cute women simply redefine that guy as "hot"? Of course they do, there is so much vag around that town right now as the girls are waiting to see which employees become millionaires overnight. I bet that dorky computer nerd who suddenly became 540million dollars richer overnight might have better luck with these hot chics now than when he could barely afford his macbook.

I could be wrong, I'm sure all those girls are just waiting to see which nerd has the most "confidence"...

I have never been to California a day in my life, and I'm glad my cajun country ass don't live out there. Competition is way too stiff. Makes Atlanta (Where I live right now) look easier.

Of course, if you're ugly, being rich can really save you. A nerd who's making mad money with technology will have a much easier time with women. The girls around Facebook, well Palo Alto, do wait to see who has the most confidence, which in reality, means money, muscles, and Maserati's. Not having these things can get you pegged as a creeper quickly.

If a guy is average, the working man trying to come up and has goals and ambitions, most girls won't warm up that fast. They think in their mind "ambition's nice, goals are nice, the drive is nice, but where's the money?" When they see a working man who made it, look out!

If a guy's born a male model, he's got it easy with women. Same thing if he's born into a wealthy family.

 

[Lexington]

yup

and with the way the economy is heading this trend will increase...

of course chicks have loved gold since the dawn of time

I'm pretty sure Russell Brand must have more going for him than just money. Remember, he bagged Katy Perry who is a multimillionaire herself. I didn't check the figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if she makes more money than he does.

That being said, attraction is all about relative value. Looks have a lot of value but so do money, power etc.

 

[Lexington]

This old skit sums it up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-OWCMrk3Q

It's "creepy" if the guy is considered unattractive (bad looks, poor game, socially awkward etc.) but it's "hot" if the guy is attractive (good looks, money, socially astute etc.)

 

[Burroughs]

I'm pretty sure Russell Brand must have more going for him than just money. Remember, he bagged Katy Perry who is a multimillionaire herself. I didn't check the figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if she makes more money than he does.

That being said, attraction is all about relative value. Looks have a lot of value but so do money, power etc.

Dude at that celebrity level its all about luxury vs luxury...Moet vs Macallan....Ferraris vs Lambos vs Rolls vs Vaeyrons. Average upper middle class dudes need not apply...their 1 Armani silk shirt or gucci belt, lexus 300 or leased BMW M3 AIN'T gonna cut it.

Trust me I've seen it firsthand. Hot girls are celebrities ALL THE TIME...as men you being a celeb just BRINGS YOU UP TO THEIR LEVEL.

As far as Katy and Brand, or Brad or Angelina....that sh!t is some next level sh!t. You have to have a 10,000 dollar a week meal budget, daily take out from Nobu or Mr Chows, and two AMeX black cards (standard) to even comprehend. Don't let all that adoption stuff fool you. This is pure decadence on a baroque scale.

And yes Brand is a funny dude...no doubt. But without money or fame 99% of women WOULD NOT GIVE A FLYING FVCK.

And no I'm not talking about 'closing' a random 6-7hb or a bar makeout with a skank that is covering a cold sore with makeup...I'm talking sustained long term interest by multiple 9-10s all over the world at the drop of a dime.

 

[nismo-4]

Burroughs, where are you from anyway?

In New Orleans, you could have a Bentley or a Maserati and have super high status! People out there really don't have super high-end cars. So much so that if you see one Maserati, you'll eventually know who has it.

Try that in Atlanta and it won't go over so well. People get these cars used as opposed to buying new ones. With Atlanta being so big, you can get lost in the crowd.

For most famous people, women are throwing their panties at them because they can smell and see success on them. If you're a working man on the come up, you've got an uphill climb and are easily beaten by the guys with luxury and are successful.

Success breeds success and the rich get richer. What can you say?

 

[Burroughs]

In New Orleans, you could have a Bentley or a Maserati and have super high status! People out there really don't have super high-end cars. So much so that if you see one Maserati, you'll eventually know who has it.

It probably belongs to lil Wayne, Baby, or Drew Brees right?

I'm a 100% with you dude...and yes of course you can bag a state college or trader joes chick with any slick ride, a little style, and some game...but if you want a true 9+ hb she's going to want to see that your lifestyle is secure...she wants to know that the golden puzzy is well taken care of.

In short you have to have money easily..no future bill gates or steve jobs for her..she doesn't want a 'wannabbee' or 'maybe could be' (otherwise MIT students would have groupies...chicks aren't that forward thinking)..she wants that $$ now.

 

[Lexington]

Dude at that celebrity level its all about luxury vs luxury...Moet vs Macallan....Ferraris vs Lambos vs Rolls vs Vaeyrons. Average upper middle class dudes need not apply...their 1 Armani silk shirt or gucci belt, lexus 300 or leased BMW M3 AIN'T gonna cut it.

Trust me I've seen it firsthand. Hot girls are celebrities ALL THE TIME...as men you being a celeb just BRINGS YOU UP TO THEIR LEVEL.

As far as Katy and Brand, or Brad or Angelina....that sh!t is some next level sh!t. You have to have a 10,000 dollar a week meal budget, daily take out from Nobu or Mr Chows, and two AMeX black cards (standard) to even comprehend. Don't let all that adoption stuff fool you. This is pure decadence on a baroque scale.

And yes Brand is a funny dude...no doubt. But without money or fame 99% of women WOULD NOT GIVE A FLYING FVCK.

And no I'm not talking about 'closing' a random 6-7hb or a bar makeout with a skank that is covering a cold sore with makeup...I'm talking sustained long term interest by multiple 9-10s all over the world at the drop of a dime.

You're missing the point. Yes, money, luxury etc. does matter a great deal but in the case of Russell Brand and Katy Perry it didn't.

Katy Perry actually makes more money than Russell Brand and considering she is a highly successful pop star and sex symbol, she could get a lot of rich, successful and good looking guys.

Obviously a middle class HB10 would be blown away by a multimillionaire's lifestyle. But a multimillionaire HB10 already has that lifestyle and thus it would take more than a fat wallet and some nice toys to woo her.

 

[Burroughs]

but in the case of Russell Brand and Katy Perry it didn't.

er.

How do you know?

Katy is no prize by Hollywood standards...you act like Russell won the lottery by getting her

Maybe she was lucky to have him.

Or maybe they both like midget hookers

Or heroin

Or threesomes with trannies

Speculating into the lives of celebrities is to open a pandoras box of closeted homosexuals, gimps, and ball gags....and thats just on the surface

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Amazing the power of Hollywood, the Media and money has over these "single independant ladies" of America isn't it?

You could be half a fag, coke snorting, whack job with God knows how many multiple sex partners and or diseases, mental issues etc. But if you've got that glitz, glamor, and Hollywood fame or Royalty attached to your name..all the good qualities these princess are 'searching' for in 'true love' go right out the window.

If it's your everday man with normal GOOD qualities and direction in life = creeper.

Rock, Movie, Rap, Royalty etc with God knows how many issues= I want to MARRY that man!

I coudln't tell who the hell half the people in Hollywood were now or care less what they've done. Good for them. None of them impress me.

I hear a chick talking about them (which is A LOT of the time) I'm thinking: Brainwashed moron.