Are PUAs sociopaths?

[namthebabe]

PUAs often:

- View interaction as a game, with no warmth or connection
- Have a predatory/ranking view of life
- See life as a game to be won
- Have superficial charm, without much humanity

MOST (at the least) Youtube PUA gurus show these traits. Even Kezia Noble has said this of the guys in her own industry.

Somebody will say they seek connection with women, so they can't be sociopaths, but then this is superficial charm. Sociopaths by design now how to manipulate and win people over.

 

[Syrio]

I don't believe they are sociopaths. Some might be, but that would be purely coincidental. Some of the traits you mentioned are characteristic of sociopaths, but not all of them. A sociopath is someone who has antisocial personality disorder, which is defined by the DSM-IV as an individual exhibiting at least 3 of the following symptoms:


1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2. deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

I could see a case for #2 being made for sure, and possibly #7 as well, but even so that's only 2. To me it seems that the behavior exhibited by PUAs does not indicate antisocial personality disorder.

 

[NewJack]

PUA dares you to act like a sociopath.

How many achieve full transformation and actually become the master manipulators?

I imagine very few.

 

[( . )( . )]

Pickup/game is nothing more than the countereaction to the last 4 or 5 decades of unrestrained hypergamy. With your average law abiding/civ building beta now being as welcome as a fungus to the average wage earning "modern" woman's snatch and the 80/20 rule in full effect something was bound to spring forth. A closer look at sexual dynamics was the result.

 

[Mike32ct]

True sociapaths have no need for PUA. They probably have women throwing themselves at them.

But all kidding aside, I sort of see NewJack's point. However, maybe "sociopath" is too strong a term. I see plenty of PUAs becoming more like NPD. That "higher value" crap goes right to their heads, and many times, their egos go to the moon.

I'm pro-PUA, but not for taking its teachings to the extreme.

 

[Syrio]

I think there is a slight misconception here of what a sociopath is. If a person does not exhibit at least 3 of the symptoms mentioned in my previous post they do not have antisocial personality disorder. The other disorder considered "sociopathy" is dissocial personality disorder. The definition of these disorders can be found in the DSM IV and on this wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

Based on these definitions, it seems pretty clear that being a sociopath is not really related to game/pua other than the one symptom from that list (deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure)

 

[evansblue]

Not even close. Most PUA's are male borderline's who have fear of abandonment. They need to neg the girl, overcompensate, and are overly ****y to hide their fragile ego. They're essentially rejecting women before they have a change to reject them. It's a defense mechanism because they've been burned so many times before.

Sociopaths, on the other hand, are a completely different breed. They try to disguise the fact they're a player, instead of trying to draw attention to it, like most PUA's. This is because they're highly manipulative, have an inner confidence that is unbreakable, and are unable to empathize with other people. They are chameleons and are extremely socially intelligent.

If you took a group of 5 people - 4 of whom seemed untrustworthy, shady and over confident, it would be the last guy who seemed honest, sincere, and humble who would screw you over the worst, sleep with your girlfriend and have a few other broads on the side.

 

[NewJack]

Based on these definitions, it seems pretty clear that being a sociopath is not really related to game/pua other than the one symptom from that list (deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure)

I have to disagree with you there, Syrio, in your honoring of the DSM's definitions.

Based on my small experience in the mental health world and study of psychology, my opinion is that the personality and human mind is still basically a black box from the point of view of established science or medicine. We could get into details, but I will just say that there are enough unknowns involved that most psychological assessments are, in my view, a Rohrschach-test performed on the researchers themselves. Not that they aren't informative or valid, but I would never, ever, turn your back on your own powers of inference in trying to assess human personality traits in deference to a dictionary definition.

As an example, part of the solidity of those definitions stems from the fact that current psychological research groups are using those same definitions as a selective filter for admission of cases into their research studies. The definition of Sociopath looks more like the DSM's every single year, because the first citation in any study of Sociopathy would be the DSM itself. The edge cases would not make the study.

The same medical establishment that rubber-stamped that definition list was performing frontal lobotomies just 60 years ago, and is in the middle of a neuropharma-perscription epidemic that is costing peoples lives, all of which is supported by the usual plethora of studies. As always, on paper, everything checks out. It had to, otherwise it wouldn't be published.

I have no major point except to say that, as crazy as us wild-eyed armchair internet theorists are, in terms of reaching a deep understanding of how human beings actually function, I believe anyone with a free thought process and some real life experience has a leg up over the generations of graduate student mules and hurried publication-chefs whose work informs bureaucratic standards manuals like the DSM.

 

[PlayHer Man]

PUAs often:

- View interaction as a game, with no warmth or connection
- Have a predatory/ranking view of life
- See life as a game to be won
- Have superficial charm, without much humanity

MOST (at the least) Youtube PUA gurus show these traits. Even Kezia Noble has said this of the guys in her own industry.

Somebody will say they seek connection with women, so they can't be sociopaths, but then this is superficial charm. Sociopaths by design now how to manipulate and win people over.

OK.... so we have mass murderers, terrorists, corrupt politicians, fraudulent business men, rapists, and hate groups... people getting shot, stabbed, starved, and diseased. BUT you're worried about a few dumb b!tches getting played by PUAs? :crackup:

I forgot that in the modern world.. NOTHING is more important than a woman's feelings.

I think your priorities are a little screwed up my man. :crazy:

 

[Atom Smasher]

To All:

Beware the current feminist infestation from another website. Take what they say with a grain of salt and realize the ideas they're trying to implant via their non-direct attack upon SS.

 

[VladPatton]

Sociopaths? You mean con-artists who blame YOU for girls not liking you so they can take your money and keep you hooked to them for life.

 

[zekko]

Beware the current feminist infestation from another website. Take what they say with a grain of salt and realize the ideas they're trying to implant via their non-direct attack upon SS.

I don't doubt the OP has an agenda. However,

If you're complaining about the OP's suggestion that PUAs are sociopaths, this isn't much different from what some of our own members have claimed: That you have to be a borderline sociopath to get respect from modern women, and that women are attracted to the Dark Triad personality traits of narcissism, machiavellinism, and psychopathy. Is this idea subversive to SoSuave or not?

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=201238&highlight=sociopath

 

[VikingKing]

Just like Sgt eagen said in ITB ( Infantry training battallion) "Gents, fvck b!tches, fvck em." He would seriously tell us this sh!t all the time. Then would tell us stories how he and other marines treated women like sh!t. lol. I thought it was kind of fvck up, but now I understand why he told us that.

I will never forget what sgt egan taught us.

 

[namthebabe]

OK.... so we have mass murderers, terrorists, corrupt politicians, fraudulent business men, rapists, and hate groups... people getting shot, stabbed, starved, and diseased. BUT you're worried about a few dumb b!tches getting played by PUAs? :crackup:

I forgot that in the modern world.. NOTHING is more important than a woman's feelings.

I think your priorities are a little screwed up my man. :crazy:

eh? when did I mention terrorists or murderers?

This is a PUA site and I cited that I believe PUAs are sociopaths. so yeah, don't get in a fret over others' opinions.....

 

[namthebabe]

To All:

Beware the current feminist infestation from another website. Take what they say with a grain of salt and realize the ideas they're trying to implant via their non-direct attack upon SS.

Are you confident? Are you assured? if so, why do the honest opinions of others phase you?

From viewing Youtube and other sources, I just reckon that most PUAs are sociopaths, based on how they talk, relate, reason and view the world. they see things and people as just means to end and there is no love or humanity.
As I said in my OP, if Kezia Noble (one of their ilk evidently) can say she thinks some of them are, then that says it all, does it not?

 

[Caravaggio]

Many PUAs are social rejects who found systematic methods of communication that provide more positive reinforcement vs. their old persona.

I'd say chicks are typically natural born-sociopaths that get a free pass cause they got a vag.

That being said its hard to punish bad behavior with nexting because psycho nookie is sooooo much fun.

 

[Trailboss]

Men have to be sociopaths to deal with women who are psychopaths....

 

[CrimsonPanther]

at the risk of putting my head into the troll's den:
i am a sociopath and i am not PUA. i bone women, i don't talk to them more than necessary.
and this forum is NOT a pua forum. tell your referrer she should get her eye examined.
because if it was, i wouldn't be here. i agree PUA is stupid in most cases. they settle with a phone number and call it a winning day. kudos to those who don't, though.