Are Male Friends Worth It?

[GhostApe]

Male friends are less attractive when you have a younger hot wife.

Sounds like you just are using lousy people as an example.

It's optimal - I'd argue necessary, in fact - to have a strong (even if small) circle of men you can trust.

Nothing beats that kind of fraternity. Women cheat, women leave you - hypergamy and such - while solid friends won't.

This isn't an effortless coast. Sometimes, coordinating schedules to make plans, resolving silly disputes, picking up the phone or firing off a text or email can be tough. But it's worth it.

Even if you have a great relationship with a hot younger wife, like you mentioned, it's going to put strain on your relationship if that's your only relationship.

And this isn't all just feel-good pop-psychology babble either. What happens when you and your wife get in an argument? Who do you vent to?

Feminists and women who like to play the victim have a term they like to bandy around called 'emotional labour' and it's the first thing they'll trot out to diagnose marriage problems when men make their 'sweety-wifey-pookums' their #1 concern in life, and neglect all other relationships to their extreme detriment.

This is one of the few times they have a point. Most red-blooded men who've let their wives or girlfriends become their entire social life start treating those women like friends, overwhelming them with emotional needs that they should be fulfilling through multiple relationships, one romantic, many others, platonic.

And the consequences of men pushing other people away and only putting effort into wooing and keeping around a woman can't be understated. Social isolation kills.

This idea that every man must be a stoical alpha-chad wall of stone is bull****. Human beings - men, obviously to a lesser extent than women - need someone to confide in, to vent to, sometimes without a filter, and sometimes, maybe, about the ways wifey ticks you off every once in a while.

I have a friend, long term, like 25 years, who was always a womaniser...cheated on his pregnant GF with a hog...Plus when we were together, he started doing the dominance thing on me (in front of her)

That's just a lousy friend. There's not harm in dropping them, but you can't write off putting in the effort to maintain healthy fraternity with other men because of your one lame pickup-artist friend from the bygone college days of yore who goes around trying to poach other men's girlfriends and wives like a scumbag. That's an objectively crappy, opportunistic person - who the hell would want to keep him around?

He’s done the dirty on friends before. The hard thing is, he is exceptionally good looking.

Well, that's part of why he can get away with being a terrible person - but again - that's still not an argument against maintaining healthy male friendships.

My other long term mate I’m on good terms with but I am much more succesful than him and I think it bugs him, he is constantly trying to prove himself (but he’s not a bad guy and the friendship is genuine)

Is he really, or are you doing something unctuous or annoying and making him angry? I don't see a lot of self-reflection in this post. If you are above reproach and are not unconsciously doing something to get on his nerves, sometimes maintaining a good friendship is just doing what you can to mitigate those issues. Sometimes it helps to just swallow your pride and let sleeping dogs lie.

Obviously, I'm an evangelist for healthy fraternity, but I'd have long ago broken up with my woman, had I not the opportunity to kick back with the boys and vent in front of a fireplace at the cabin, beer in hand, shooting the ****, with no care in the world for political correctness and what may or may not offend someone's wife of girlfriend.

I've gone through periods where I tried to be the cool-dude-alpha-wolf without any friends. It works for a bit, but eventually, I'd end up dumping all my energy into trash-tier relationships with women who were overwhelmed with how needy I was, while I worked in another state for about five years, very far away from where I grew up and where the rest of my social circle lived.

It was a horrible, embittering experience, and it took a lot of self-critical thinking to find the error in my ways, and make inferences about why every relationship I had out there went down in flames, and why it was so hard to meet and keep women around - and it was because I was demanding every woman I got close to play the role of lover and handful of platonic friends.

My quality of life - and the relationships I had - exponentiated when I returned to where I grew up and could spend time with my pals again.

i find male friendships are just jam packed full of competition.

Yeah, some of them. Look, it's not easy to build friends, to find a "tribe," so to speak. And while "doing the same things," per se, won't necessarily build you the best strong group of solid friends right away, it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Fruitbat]

Sounds like you just are using lousy people as an example.

It's optimal - I'd argue necessary, in fact - to have a strong (even if small) circle of men you can trust.

Nothing beats that kind of fraternity. Women cheat, women leave you - hypergamy and such - while solid friends won't.

This isn't an effortless coast. Sometimes, coordinating schedules to make plans, resolving silly disputes, picking up the phone or firing off a text or email can be tough. But it's worth it.

Even if you have a great relationship with a hot younger wife, like you mentioned, it's going to put strain on your relationship if that's your only relationship.

And this isn't all just feel-good pop-psychology babble either. What happens when you and your wife get in an argument? Who do you vent to?

Feminists and women who like to play the victim have a term they like to bandy around called 'emotional labour' and it's the first thing they'll trot out to diagnose marriage problems when men make their 'sweety-wifey-pookums' their #1 concern in life, and neglect all other relationships to their extreme detriment.

This is one of the few times they have a point. Most red-blooded men who've let their wives or girlfriends become their entire social life start treating those women like friends, overwhelming them with emotional needs that they should be fulfilling through multiple relationships, one romantic, many others, platonic.

And the consequences of men pushing other people away and only putting effort into wooing and keeping around a woman can't be understated. Social isolation kills.

This idea that every man must be a stoical alpha-chad wall of stone is bull****. Human beings - men, obviously to a lesser extent than women - need someone to confide in, to vent to, sometimes without a filter, and sometimes, maybe, about the ways wifey ticks you off every once in a while.



That's just a lousy friend. There's not harm in dropping them, but you can't write off putting in the effort to maintain healthy fraternity with other men because of your one lame pickup-artist friend from the bygone college days of yore who goes around trying to poach other men's girlfriends and wives like a scumbag. That's an objectively crappy, opportunistic person - who the hell would want to keep him around?



Well, that's part of why he can get away with being a terrible person - but again - that's still not an argument against maintaining healthy male friendships.



Is he really, or are you doing something unctuous or annoying and making him angry? I don't see a lot of self-reflection in this post. If you are above reproach and are not unconsciously doing something to get on his nerves, sometimes maintaining a good friendship is just doing what you can to mitigate those issues. Sometimes it helps to just swallow your pride and let sleeping dogs lie.

Obviously, I'm an evangelist for healthy fraternity, but I'd have long ago broken up with my woman, had I not the opportunity to kick back with the boys and vent in front of a fireplace at the cabin, beer in hand, shooting the ****, with no care in the world for political correctness and what may or may not offend someone's wife of girlfriend.

I've gone through periods where I tried to be the cool-dude-alpha-wolf without any friends. It works for a bit, but eventually, I'd end up dumping all my energy into trash-tier relationships with women who were overwhelmed with how needy I was, while I worked in another state for about five years, very far away from where I grew up and where the rest of my social circle lived.

It was a horrible, embittering experience, and it took a lot of self-critical thinking to find the error in my ways, and make inferences about why every relationship I had out there went down in flames, and why it was so hard to meet and keep women around - and it was because I was demanding every woman I got close to play the role of lover and handful of platonic friends.

My quality of life - and the relationships I had - exponentiated when I returned to where I grew up and could spend time with my pals again.



Yeah, some of them. Look, it's not easy to build friends, to find a "tribe," so to speak. And while "doing the same things," per se, won't necessarily build you the best strong group of solid friends right away, it's a step in the right direction.

Great post.

I just don’t know where to find male friends at age 40. I have workmates but they all have families, nobody has ever asked me to dinner or anything. I don’t think any of them socialise.

Other than that, I am in a social club. I have beers with them but again, it’s not like I see them outside of the club.

I did have a few groups of closer friends. One I got dropped from because I was depressed and an alcoholic following divorce and tragedy (about 6 years back)

That period, where I was out of control, alienated most of my social life.

Depression is a terrible thing. It manifested with me by basically drinking/drugs and just being out of control, fighting etc.

So yes, a lot is of my own doing, and I own that. Yet, it’s hard to pick back up with people at my age, so I kind of resigned myself to a fairly solitary life where I just concentrate on career and gym. I have lots of social interaction at work, and I’ve still got a few groups of friends for sports, but I have lost nearly all close friendships, mainly due to my own actions (which themselves were a reaction to some tragic events, but people do not give allowances, it’s on us to control ourselves after all)

 

[Murk]

Male friends and being social keeps me sane

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Are male friends worth it? Yes, if you enjoy doing the same activities and you share a similar world view it adds a nice balance to your life.

But always remember this. The vast majority of your male friends would bang your wife if given the chance. And that’s just being real about it. Not to say that male friendships aren’t worth it, but be aware that most dudes throw other dudes under the bus for women. Friends and family included.

I would not bang my friend’s wives. Yuck.

 

[svencandy]

I'm struggling with this at the moment.
As we pass 30, hanging out is less, and it's usually just beers and watch sportsball.
We did a trip to another capital city for the cricket last year. Beer all day.
Went on a holiday to a beach house, TV was on from the second we woke up, there was some surfing and fishing involved.
Majority of conversation was around work and their partners/kids.

 

[LTG71]

At this point in my life, I value my friendships with men more than I do any of my interactions with women. The most loyal and enduring relationships in my life have always been with my male friends. In my personal experience with women, and my experience with thousands of women as a divorce lawyer, my conclusion is that women lack the "loyalty gene", especially when it comes to their interactions with men. A man that prioritizes his relationships with women over his male friends will usually end up miserable, depressed, and divorced, wishing he had listened to his "a-hole" Alpha male friends that told him never to marry that *****.

100%. Female friends also can’t relate to your male life experiences. Women are often narcissist and have trouble seeing the world from a man’s perspective. Men and women also view friendships from their same sex frame of reference, reason male-female friendships are so challenging. Like Rollo says, “If you are not f-ing her, then you are her girl friend.” So if you end up in the “friendzone,” the average woman will never act like your guy friends do. Which will ultimately be less rewarding in the long run in my experience.

 

[madeit]

Try meeting guys in different places and having " tiers" of friends. Basically you can have a piece meal social life.

I have a friend I mostly just rock climb with - but we chat and are pretty tight. Two other guys he is closer with I'll hang out with them as a group with him.


Then I have a few close friends - but they live far and we chat on the phone often.

I also have some acquaintances I get a long pretty well with at events.

I'd say - having a spectrum of friend ship works - not being all or nothing wanting just perfect friends or nothing. As having some social relationships in your life is really helpful.

Another thing that has helped me is - going to group events ( but not like where everyone knows each other)

For example I go to speaking clubs, a business networking meetup , a video editing meetup.

Basically places where you are exposed to a lot of people at once ( but not a whole group of people who are already friends) it gives a much better chance of you clicking with someone.

One of my good friends, we met in a business accountability group- the other guys were absolute jokers who never showed up again - but me and him kept meeting for a freaking year - made progress and became good friends. So stuff like that - give yourself the opportunity to be exposed to a lot of people.
Also make sure you work on yourself - do you bring value to the table?

 

[Zimbabwe]

I'm going against the grain here but I see no real need for male friends, everything I can do with them I can just do with a girlfriend if I want to see a movie I rather take my girlfriend and not a bunch of guys.

Most guys are not going to help land you good jobs or give you access to women, I don't see myself wanting to waste my free time hanging out with a bunch of guys.

 

[Fruitbat]

Just musing on an interesting dynamic here.

women value men who have social capital. It’s a massive thing for them. If you’re captain of the football team, or head of something or other, that is the greatest aphrodisiac of all. Order of magnitude higher than anything else.

Yet, most women I have been with over 20 years and probably 10-15 partners steadily work to reduce your social life. They generally don’t like your friends and want to move you to their social circle (frame). This leaves you vulnerable as a man. Perhaps it’s to create that dependence.

Another thing, they crave powerful, untamed men, but work relentlessly to reduce your power.

In the same way, they want confident men yet work hard to undermine you, to break you down. Even when there’s nothing to go after, women go after their stock “I’ve got little material but need to belittle you” topic - tidiness. Your socks shouldn’t be here, why is this cup here. These are generally things they do to the same extent. I’ve literally demonstrated to various women all the things they leave out where they shouldnt be.

recently a good example: I trimmed my beard and there were a few dusting of trim on the sink. This was so small, if it was coke not even enough for a tiny line, that’s how little.
I pointed out the literal mass of her hair on the shower floor and everywhere. The plug constantly blocks and I have to pull out wads of her hair. I just offered her which she prefers to clean, as I am the one declogging.

Just think it’s odd that women keenly desire the traits which they then seek to destroy.

 

[HoneyHitter]

This question “Are male friends worth it?” could only be asked in peace time.