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Are AFC's ruining it for everyone?

ketostix

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I think there's no question AFC's are ruining women for everyone. AFC's serve a purpose for women or women wouldn't encourage the behavior so much. They spoil women and inflate women's ego. As other's mentioned AFC's act as a thorn in the "alphas" side by opposing other guys' alpha behavior directly and filling the woman's head full of sh!t about the alpha non-AFC.

Even if being "alpha" naturally attracts women, you now have to prove that your alpha and not an AFC and get tested on it because there are so many guys who are AFC's at least at heart. If there weren't so many AFCs, women wouldn't be so spoiled, they wouldn't have their egos so inflated, and they wouldn't need to test so much for you being non-AFC. And don't estimate the power of societal momentum. If society is predominately AFC, then AFC becomes more acceptable to women.

Women are mostly just picking the best looking, most successful guy anyway whether "alpha" and non-AFC or not. That's what attracts them and women just subjectively perceive the guys AFC traits as good traits and another alphas guy's traits who's less goodlooking as negative traits.
 

darkstarrr

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ketostix said:
I think there's no question AFC's are ruining women for everyone. AFC's serve a purpose for women or women wouldn't encourage the behavior so much. They spoil women and inflate women's ego.

Women are mostly just picking the best looking, most successful guy anyway whether "alpha" and non-AFC or not. That's what attracts them and women just subjectively perceive the guys AFC traits as good traits and another alphas guy's traits who's less goodlooking as negative traits.
i think we need to be careful because one thing we are forgetting is how some women can be ACTRESSES like kontroller has pointed out. i know this because i have seen it. the red flags sometimes do not start coming out until a period of time has passed greater than 6 months or ever a year. you think you are in a relatinship with this person! you think things are "normal". but hat can happen in some cases with certain women is that that will draw out from you these AFC tendencies over time, slowly like a velocoraptor tests the electric cage.

what i'm saying is that sometimes an individual who thinks of themself as a DJ will get into a situation where he is caught off gaurd over time, and induced into displaying the qualities that we are discussing here and complaining about.
 

Tazman

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ketostix said:
I think there's no question AFC's are ruining women for everyone. AFC's serve a purpose for women or women wouldn't encourage the behavior so much. They spoil women and inflate women's ego. As other's mentioned AFC's act as a thorn in the "alphas" side by opposing other guys' alpha behavior directly and filling the woman's head full of sh!t about the alpha non-AFC.
Thing is, wouldn't you consider this to be a contradiction of sorts? Women cannot encourage "Alpha" men to behave as AFCs. Alpha men do not see AFCs as competition, quite the contrary. This behavior only manifests itself in men who are predisposed to become AFC.
ketostix said:
Even if being "alpha" naturally attracts women, you now have to prove that your alpha and not an AFC and get tested on it because there are so many guys who are AFC's at least at heart.
I believe all men are tested regardless of status, past or present. I just don't see AFC men as the cause of this more recent behavior, I see AFCs as a result.
ketostix said:
If there weren't so many AFCs, women wouldn't be so spoiled, they wouldn't have their egos so inflated, and they wouldn't need to test so much for you being non-AFC.
I think it's the result of their new found "power" that's been granted by not only government but popular media and propaganda (extreme feminism). Women are simply taking full advantage of what's been given to them.
ketostix said:
And don't estimate the power of societal momentum. If society is predominately AFC, then AFC becomes more acceptable to women.
AFCs are only as acceptable as they are "useful" to any particular woman. I don't believe they "excite" women at all.
ketostix said:
Women are mostly just picking the best looking, most successful guy anyway whether "alpha" and non-AFC or not. That's what attracts them and women just subjectively perceive the guys AFC traits as good traits and another alphas guy's traits who's less goodlooking as negative traits.
Wouldn't you say this probably has always been the case? There are some guys who behave as alphas and have women submit to them, and then there are those who don't. Men love feminine women who compliment them in relationships, but we also like nice bodies. That's why a good looking chick can act like a ***** and still create demand but even the most feminine, down-to-earth chick, ready to f-ck your brains out, will only garner attention if she's hot.

Nothing personal, just sparking discussion.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear All,
Can't say how it is for you blokes in the States,but my observation is that the pool of available women over here,gets larger and larger,the quality well!!We are discussing this in another thread right now....But my Merry Men be not downcast,if you digest and use the remarkable techniques of the DJ illustrated on this site,you will have such an edge over the AFC's that it is a case of the more the merrier,be confident and you will find even the hardened feminists will let their guards down....Aah so many gorgeous Women so little time!!!
 

sodbuster

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the AFC's can have the women who need a man to supplicate to their every need. I have no desire for a miserable life. Course with 2 sons, I've already swam upstream and spawned-I can die.
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

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STR8UP

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sodbuster said:
the AFC's can have the women who need a man to supplicate to their every need. I have no desire for a miserable life. Course with 2 sons, I've already swam upstream and spawned-I can die.
Hahahaha.....like a fukkin salmon......AWESOME :up:
 

DevanE

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...

Originally posted by:- reset

Sheesh! Relax man. I wasn't suggesting anything about your character. You being a little too defensive. You don't have to prove anything to ME... whatever I set off in you, get that worked on. I'm just a guy online. I shouldn't be able to ruffle your feathers like that.

Anyway, the way you wrote your sentence was a red flag to me so I pointed it out.

You said you had to accept their BS or not be accepted. This sounded like you did not like this, and probably didn't do this, and were frustrated that you thought you'd have to go against who you really "are" to get these chicks to dig you.

My point is you're under a false assumption. You DON'T have to accept their BS to accept you. In fact, not accepting their BS is exactly what's going to set you apart from the pack.

LOL...here we go again...wow your REALLY trying that on me...? You ACTUALLY believe that you "ruffled" my feathers...?? :rolleyes: So every time someone tries to clarify a point that is misinterpreted you ASSUME that person is being "defensive"...? See this is what I don't understand WHERE are you getting that from my post...? I really don't get it and the funny thing is that you misinterpreted what I wrote AGAIN lol...:rockon: dang boy you on a roll now!!!! I also find it funny how you "coincidentaly" made the FIRST post on the second page defending yourself or "calling out" my over the top "emotional" reaction. Interesting...

I am NOT under any false assumptions what so ever good sir but good try.

Originally posted by:- Tazman

Actually, on the contrary, I think AFCs have made it "easier". Women's egos aren't boosted by AFC orbiters, because they are just that, "orbiters". Just like it doesn't boost my ego to know that there are many women attracted to me that I myself am not attracted to. You know that feeling you get when you find out a particular chick likes you and you don't share the same feelings?

It makes you want to separate yourself from them, but it depends. If you could see yourself f-cking them you might keep them around as FBs or something else you find "useful". Orbiters are nothing more than tools who are rated based on their utility/usefulness. No one throws away something they deem as valuable, which may change over time, but the principle itself never changes. It's all in relation to your perceived options. The less options you feel you have the more you will "settle" for what's in front of you.
Touche! good point but let's look at it THIS way. The term orbiter itself refers to someone who is constantly around a particular women or fawns over her. If you look at it in terms of utilities or valuable assets as you put it you gotta wonder HOW or WHY is it that these guys are used as TOOLs...? Why WOULD a women use these men as "tools"...? Because they simply allow her to thus, it creates this false sense of security of "Im the sh**!!!" and if a guy doesn't cater to me fuk him I'll just get more "weapons" or "tools" in my arsenal". This BS really DOES ruin it for other guys who are NOT AFC's because and I'll give you an example...I tried a "neg" on a girl one time who was in the study group and all she had to do was get this AFC idiot to validate her thus rendering my "neg" useless. It's THAT simple. These "tools" spoil girls for no reason what so ever because they REALLY are NOT appreciated since she has SO many "tools".

Again you guys gotta keep in mind that being AFC is becoming the "norm" and it's a lot more rampant than most people think or realize.

Good discussion.
 

MatureDJ

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This is gold

reset said:
... human nature has not changed. Behavior can change, but the things that make a woman go insane are the same now as they've always been and they are never going to change.
But Evolution will dictate that women that are too picky in this generation will not have picky daughters (think Condolezza Rice, etc.), and women will gradually all be daughters of single mommies.
 

ketostix

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DevanE said:
Touche! good point but let's look at it THIS way. The term orbiter itself refers to someone who is constantly around a particular women or fawns over her. If you look at it in terms of utilities or valuable assets as you put it you gotta wonder HOW or WHY is it that these guys are used as TOOLs...? Why WOULD a women use these men as "tools"...? Because they simply allow her to thus, it creates this false sense of security of "Im the sh**!!!" and if a guy doesn't cater to me fuk him I'll just get more "weapons" or "tools" in my arsenal". This BS really DOES ruin it for other guys who are NOT AFC's because and I'll give you an example...I tried a "neg" on a girl one time who was in the study group and all she had to do was get this AFC idiot to validate her thus rendering my "neg" useless. It's THAT simple. These "tools" spoil girls for no reason what so ever because they REALLY are NOT appreciated since she has SO many "tools".

Again you guys gotta keep in mind that being AFC is becoming the "norm" and it's a lot more rampant than most people think or realize.

Good discussion.
I agree. Women have gotten worse and men have become more AFC. It goes hand in hand. In my lifetime I have seen this trend over the last 10 to 20 years. It's like the other side is arguing that in the past generally men weren't more alpha and women weren't feminine due to genetics or human nature.. That's a silly argument imo. Enviroment or societal momentum is a very strong factor even more than genetics. People will go against their own nature due to social pressures. There was a time and place where you had to be a certain class, nationality etc. to be acceptable to most women. Bottom line is spoiled women and AFC's is the new schema. AFC's are enablers of any agendas women have. Women's agendas don't really match men's agendas whether he's AFC or alpha.
 

SoCalMike

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Short answer is yes: much the way masses of mindless brainwashed slaves "ruin" things for free thinking folks.

Make no mistake, AFCs and spoiled women were engineered by social policies of the government.

Just witness pop culture in the West - movies, TV, music. The media is the propaganda organ of the government. The message is always the same: the beautiful woman is the prize, the heroine, the genius, etc. while the man is the goofy chump who tries to win her over, or the stupid brute who just doesn't "get it".

A recent example of this is The Transformers movie in which the guy is a total dweeb and drools over the hot chick.

Pathetic.
 

Truebrit

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AFCs make it easier for the rest of us - in fact a lot easier. If you act more masculine then the suprise that women get - or the "disturbance -is greater with abundant AFCs around.

Anyone who has been on holiday in Europe where masuline traits are encouraged e.g Italy - will know how much harder it is to get women when there are more alpha males are there. The competition is higher.

All this SATC/my gay best friend/Ego-entitlement mentality that we get here in the UK is just a veneer. Stand up to it and face it and it crumbles. The common (AFC) male reaction here is to take on female values as their own. Rejection challenges and what women wants a walkover guy?
 

Hooligan Harry

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Its a social plague. You dont ever really notice it until you stand back and look at the situation as a whole. The problem is that its reaching the stage where traditional views are held with such disdain you cant have a conversation with people at times. And its everywhere. TV, radios, magazines and newspapers. People walking past you on the streets and social groups at nightclubs. If it were not for a difference in appearance in the constant cheesy jokes about gender you would not be able to tell the difference between the boys and the girls

Sometimes my concern is that I have become rather judgmental. I see people dressing a certain way or acting a certain way and I get annoyed. I will listen to some homo giving relationship advice to the local office chubby and want to strangle both of them. I have actually imagined walking up and slapping the power chicks I have had to deal with. I hear them making jokes about men or some mangina making a comment about men and I want to give them a beatdown. It should not bother me and I know it does no good to get upset when I see people acting like idiots but it really bothers me at times. This is something I need to work on from a personal point of view. I know the world is not going to change and there is no point being upset about something that is out of my control and has minimal impact on my life.

My biggest problem these days is trying to fit in. Some of my best mates think I am a savage because of the way I view things and the way I respond to things. Women who know me and have dated me think I am a selfish pig because I am traditional and I dont compromise on issues that are related to character. Being a man is seen as a sin these days and I cant help but think that the reason it has reached this stage is because MEN have allowed it to happen.
 

thedeparted

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Hooligan Harry said:
Its a social plague. You dont ever really notice it until you stand back and look at the situation as a whole. The problem is that its reaching the stage where traditional views are held with such disdain you cant have a conversation with people at times. And its everywhere. TV, radios, magazines and newspapers. People walking past you on the streets and social groups at nightclubs. If it were not for a difference in appearance in the constant cheesy jokes about gender you would not be able to tell the difference between the boys and the girls

Sometimes my concern is that I have become rather judgmental. I see people dressing a certain way or acting a certain way and I get annoyed. I will listen to some homo giving relationship advice to the local office chubby and want to strangle both of them. I have actually imagined walking up and slapping the power chicks I have had to deal with. I hear them making jokes about men or some mangina making a comment about men and I want to give them a beatdown. It should not bother me and I know it does no good to get upset when I see people acting like idiots but it really bothers me at times. This is something I need to work on from a personal point of view. I know the world is not going to change and there is no point being upset about something that is out of my control and has minimal impact on my life.

My biggest problem these days is trying to fit in. Some of my best mates think I am a savage because of the way I view things and the way I respond to things. Women who know me and have dated me think I am a selfish pig because I am traditional and I dont compromise on issues that are related to character. Being a man is seen as a sin these days and I cant help but think that the reason it has reached this stage is because MEN have allowed it to happen.
Exactly my feelings, Harry. But I believe the birth control pill was the beginning of the end. We basically said to women, Go have as much sex as you want. They became the sexual aggressors and that was the beginning of the end of proper gender roles.

Worse, birth control, estrogen-like compounds, and other pollutants are in the water supply. They are reducing sperm count, testosterone levels, and penis size, while making women even more aggressive. So the chemical shlt all around us is making the women into men and the men into wusses.

Overall, it's a damm sorry state of affairs. I feel like strangling the MEN who let all this happen.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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thedeparted said:
We basically said to women, Go have as much sex as you want. They became the sexual aggressors and that was the beginning of the end of proper gender roles.
How does giving women the freedom to enjoy sex without the possibility of pregnancy necesarily turn them into sexual aggressors? Wouldn't the sudden increase of sexually available women cause a concommitent increase in the sexual agressiveness in males?

And what exactly do you mean by "proper gender roles"?
Who defines them?
Do they ever change? If so, who decides the change?
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

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Hooligan Harry

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thedeparted said:
Exactly my feelings, Harry. But I believe the birth control pill was the beginning of the end. We basically said to women, Go have as much sex as you want. They became the sexual aggressors and that was the beginning of the end of proper gender roles.

Worse, birth control, estrogen-like compounds, and other pollutants are in the water supply. They are reducing sperm count, testosterone levels, and penis size, while making women even more aggressive. So the chemical shlt all around us is making the women into men and the men into wusses.

Overall, it's a damm sorry state of affairs. I feel like strangling the MEN who let all this happen.
I dont think its the pill, although i think its an interesting theory. For me it has more to do with the fact that in the west we have created a society of victims. Everyone from minority groups to women feel that they have been victimized in the past. This gives them an excuse for poor performances or bad behavior. It also allows them to push for special treatment.

Feminism is not about equality. Its about giving women an advantage because without it they cant compete. Everyone is a civil rights activist these days and everyone is a psychologist. No one is getting on with the job anymore. The problem is that unless you are a sympathizer you are seen as part of the problem and ostracized. Its why men have become AFC's and women have become nazis. They want to fit in and hold views that others find acceptable.

I am fortunate enough to be very well traveled for someone still so young. I have seen the differences in cultures when it comes to gender, not to mention the difference in views on life in general. I mean no offense when I say this but Americans in particular have become pussies. As economic and cultural world leaders, you rub off on Britain and Australia, who are quickly becoming just as soft. This is a few years? My Grandfather and great uncles, who fought in the second world war, always used to speak about "Them Yanks" with a sense of awe. He was a hard nut himself and gave no one credit for anything. I dont see it. I see materialism and a sense of deep ignorance at times.

While the west provides the best standard of living and quality of life for its people what it has failed to really provide is happiness. War torn countries and abject poverty do not make for happy people but you would be surprised how happy most people are who live in third world countries. They have little but they appreciate what they have. Humans are social creatures and the west has created societies where you could live in a city of 5 million people and feel alone.
 

Tazman

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DevanE said:
The term orbiter itself refers to someone who is constantly around a particular women or fawns over her. If you look at it in terms of utilities or valuable assets as you put it you gotta wonder HOW or WHY is it that these guys are used as TOOLs...? Why WOULD a women use these men as "tools"...? Because they simply allow her to thus, it creates this false sense of security of "Im the sh**!!!" and if a guy doesn't cater to me fuk him I'll just get more "weapons" or "tools" in my arsenal".
It depends. It does create security and orbiters do serve many useful purposes, but they aren't the "goal". Women don't lust after orbiters/AFCs and they wouldn't react to a guy they really like by comparing him to the AFCs thinking he should behave more like them, she LIKES the fact that he isn't like them at all. Of course, part of this whole process is to have you believe they do.

Then you have women who would prefer the "comfort" of the AFC because they may place more importance on being the one in charge/control and/or they're older and losing their looks (maybe has kids with no father around). Usually there is some kind of trade off which may or may not be obvious. Just like men will always place beautiful women at the top of their list but most men know what they're capable of pulling and will eventually concede to who they believe they can get.
DevanE said:
This BS really DOES ruin it for other guys who are NOT AFC's because and I'll give you an example...I tried a "neg" on a girl one time who was in the study group and all she had to do was get this AFC idiot to validate her thus rendering my "neg" useless. It's THAT simple.
Yes but, and this is meant as constructive criticism, how do you know she wanted to be negged by YOU? You can't just neg a chick and expect good results if she doesn't have an interest in you to begin with. Not that you shouldn't have done it, you can always test the waters, but don't expect it to be a fail safe method. You never know, she may have liked it but didn't show any indication to save face in front of other people.
DevanE said:
These "tools" spoil girls for no reason what so ever because they REALLY are NOT appreciated since she has SO many "tools".
That is why they are tools, and they are there for HER reasons AND theirs, if they didn't provide the attention/validation she wanted she would have no reason to keep them around. You also have to remember women are masters at leading guys on making them believe there's some chance when they know full well there isn't. Some guys will just stick around because they're waiting for an opportunity that may never materialize, she isn't dangling a carrot on a stick, they've got a carrot tied to a stick that's strapped to their own heads.
 

Nutz

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bigjohnson said:
Feminist women are ruining MEN is the reality.
Could not possibly agree more. My friend's soon-to-be exwife was remarking how she can't find an FB because guys are so wussy and unattractive these days. They all think women want romance and be in a relationship before getting sexual. Why she told him is another story, but the fact remains the same that men these days are emasculated and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
 

thedeparted

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Hooligan Harry said:
I dont think its the pill, although i think its an interesting theory. For me it has more to do with the fact that in the west we have created a society of victims. Everyone from minority groups to women feel that they have been victimized in the past. This gives them an excuse for poor performances or bad behavior. It also allows them to push for special treatment.

Feminism is not about equality. Its about giving women an advantage because without it they cant compete. Everyone is a civil rights activist these days and everyone is a psychologist. No one is getting on with the job anymore. The problem is that unless you are a sympathizer you are seen as part of the problem and ostracized. Its why men have become AFC's and women have become nazis. They want to fit in and hold views that others find acceptable.

I am fortunate enough to be very well traveled for someone still so young. I have seen the differences in cultures when it comes to gender, not to mention the difference in views on life in general. I mean no offense when I say this but Americans in particular have become pussies. As economic and cultural world leaders, you rub off on Britain and Australia, who are quickly becoming just as soft. This is a few years? My Grandfather and great uncles, who fought in the second world war, always used to speak about "Them Yanks" with a sense of awe. He was a hard nut himself and gave no one credit for anything. I dont see it. I see materialism and a sense of deep ignorance at times.

While the west provides the best standard of living and quality of life for its people what it has failed to really provide is happiness. War torn countries and abject poverty do not make for happy people but you would be surprised how happy most people are who live in third world countries. They have little but they appreciate what they have. Humans are social creatures and the west has created societies where you could live in a city of 5 million people and feel alone.
Well, no surprise I don't agree that Americans are pussies. I've traveled in Europe and what I saw were a lot of lazy whiners who don't want to work more than 30 hrs a week, take entire summers off, and seem to have trouble with bathing and dental work. Head to head America kicks Europe's azz economically, scientifically, militarily, creatively, and in just about every other category. Our women are also a lot better looking than what you got over in England, and they shave their legs and armpits.

However, where America has gone wrong is its women. They have turned into men. And the men have turned into girls. I blame the pill because it fundamentally shifts the female biology. Prior to the pill, sex was risky for women due to pregnancy. Once on the pill women no longer have the pregnancy risk. This means they can be much more sexually assertive, "spin more plates", and have more conquests. More sexually available women means that men can be more passive and let the women chase them. Think about it. If there were one women and 100 men you'dhave a riot. If there are 100 women and one man he'd lay back and do nothing. So the pill increases availability of women making men more passive.

Secondly, the pill tricks the body into thinking it is always pregnant. A pregnant woman is more aggressive due to the hormones, which may serve a protective function for the young. Once pregnant, a woman benefits if many men think she's carrying their baby. So there can be a biological incentive for a woman who is knocked up and not showing to sleep around more, gaining the protection of more men. Hormones that simulate pregnancy may stimulate such subconscious behavior, resulting in yet more sexual aggression from females, and more passive men. Lots of pregnant women report being horny as hell.

Finally, like I said, many chemicals now in our water supply are estrogen mimickers, including birth control pills, which further changes the biology of women, and of men. We've got male fish that lay eggs, massive declines in sperm counts of frogs and fish, etc. etc. We've conducted a big experiment on ourselves biochemically -- here in America -- and we are now living the results, which are becoming a psychosexual hell.

As for the feminists, you are right they see themselves as victims, which is how the Nazi's saw themselves, too. You can bet that whomever whines loudest about being a victim is attempting to exploit their status to oppress another party and feminists are no exception. But nobody on SS would stand up for a feminist so this is just preaching to the choir.
 

Barefoot Boy

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bigjohnson said:
Before the masculinization of western woman and the feminization of western men none of this game horse crap was even needed. Now we have to play games to hold each others interest because we've managed to build a society where we systematically break ourselves.


Ever wonder why the millionaire Rockefeller supported the ERA bill back in the 1970's to give women even more 'power' in the US?

Because they could pay them 70 cents on the dollar, that why! And all my brothers on the web site you thought it was because the controllers/elites want to change the world/social order for equality. Wrong! A man broken down is separated and of course a single mom with child is more easy to control/pay 70 cents on the dollar. You will often find this unhealthy dynamic in Russian women (mail order brides from moscow, beware!) The ussr gov. encouraged women to kick men down, so to better divide and conquer the historical troublemakers: men. Play to womens' ego about career and trash more men (It's about power, baby.)

We can not separate the dating world we live in from all the other crazyness. So our task is to understand it.

May I suggest a book that explains the breakdown of 21th century life where women think they are men and black is white:

The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in an Age of Diminishing Expectations
By Christopher Lasch
Published by Warner Books, 1980
ISBN 0446974951, 9780446974950
268 pages



It shows the merits of implications of the women's movement, the radical lesbians' distortions of its thrust, and the contemptibility of those who exploit it - "You've come a long way, baby" myth.

It talks about the breakdown in public attitudes, politics, sports, education, childrearing practices, social policies - virtually all areas of public life.
 
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