Anyone find direct game less effective?

[GFella]

Yes you are right. I'd rather surround myself with women then go to a night club where there are 100 guys and 3 fvckable chicks. Lol. This is the first thing you said that was right.

Honestly Gefella, I have never taken you seriously. I only engaged with you as a launching pad to post my experience so that OTHERS can read and see.

You've spent the whole convo emotionally reacting to me, throwing all kinds of jabs at me, while I simply expressed my experience with no care in the world.

So apparently I am the feminine one right? LOL. Not you, someone who couldn't write one post without being overly emotional over some guy on the internet. This conversation must have been your super bowl. I'm glad I was able to help you feel significant...even only for a moment.

It was fun. But now I no longer have any use for you because I have said everything I wanted to say. Now I am going to ignore you for you have outlived the purpose that I had set out for you.

More flip flopping nonsense from you.

Congrats. Post your "experience". Anyone with experience sees your clown act for what it is.

Now run along and creatw more strawman to argue against. Youre dismissed.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

No matter what happens, your intent should always be "I'm going to find out if these girls are fun" or something of that nature.

But what if you run into a woman who doesn't feel that way? Are you going to change your approach according to women's whims? This is living in women's reality

And the other frame traps you in the world of micro-calibration. You are constantly walking on eggshells trying to figure out what women want- only to discover that some women respond to such and such behavior, while other women respond to something else.

It feels like you are saying that if you approach a girl who isn't giving you signals or isn't charming you then it means you are falling into PUA tactics. That's not what I do. I view cold approaching as: giving women the gift of the opportunity to meet me. And by that I mean meet me as who I am. While I am trying to increase my calibration as a man in my interactions with women in-general, I am definitely not trying to adjust my calibration for a specific woman to give her what I think she needs to be attracted to me.

The formula/script is:
1. Approach a girl boldly and with confidence.
2. Frame why I am there so she understands and it isn't weird. I can be varying degrees of direct or indirect depending on the situation. Sometimes I'll tell her I saw her and thought she looked interesting so I wanted to meet her. Etc
3. Have a conversation in which I qualify her. The frame is: I'm here. I'm intrigued. Here's your shot to impress me. I don't reward her with any further validation unless she does impress me or tries to charm me. That's the goal anyway. If she isn't what I am looking for or isn't interested, so long sweetheart. On to the next. If she disrespects me or my time, same thing.

I agree with everything you say about being king of a tribe. The issue there is that it's a difficult thing to achieve. I've been working my way through a number of social groups trying to find that but so far, I've found that there's always guys with higher SMV than myself in the groups unless it's a small tight friend-group. If the social group is for sports, the people who are best at the sport have the highest SMV. I'm working towards being better at the sport (not for women, but because I enjoy it), but it could take me another 10 years to realize my full potential. I'm not finding enough hot women in these groups for me to have abundance. So I keep putting myself out there, exploring groups, and cold approaching.

 

[Spaz]

It feels like you are saying that if you approach a girl who isn't giving you signals or isn't charming you then it means you are falling into PUA tactics. That's not what I do. I view cold approaching as: giving women the gift of the opportunity to meet me. And by that I mean meet me as who I am. While I am trying to increase my calibration as a man in my interactions with women in-general, I am definitely not trying to adjust my calibration for a specific woman to give her what I think she needs to be attracted to me.

The formula/script is:
1. Approach a girl boldly and with confidence.
2. Frame why I am there so she understands and it isn't weird. I can be varying degrees of direct or indirect depending on the situation. Sometimes I'll tell her I saw her and thought she looked interesting so I wanted to meet her. Etc
3. Have a conversation in which I qualify her. The frame is: I'm here. I'm intrigued. Here's your shot to impress me. I don't reward her with any further validation unless she does impress me or tries to charm me. That's the goal anyway. If she isn't what I am looking for or isn't interested, so long sweetheart. On to the next. If she disrespects me or my time, same thing.

I agree with everything you say about being king of a tribe. The issue there is that it's a difficult thing to achieve. I've been working my way through a number of social groups trying to find that but so far, I've found that there's always guys with higher SMV than myself in the groups unless it's a small tight friend-group. If the social group is for sports, the people who are best at the sport have the highest SMV. I'm working towards being better at the sport (not for women, but because I enjoy it), but it could take me another 10 years to realize my full potential. I'm not finding enough hot women in these groups for me to have abundance. So I keep putting myself out there, exploring groups, and cold approaching.

From this post, I strongly suggest you forget this game plan you're had, the results speaks for itself if you're honest about it.

Once you get real comfortable with this routine you'll never truly escape from it.

The amount of cringe worthy attempts I've seen over the years by men directly approaching women in clubs could number by the thousands, and those women would often have a wonderful time leading them on, getting massive laughters going by making fools of those men like buying them drinks and being a good boy using pua trickery, of course all the laughter is behind their backs.

I've lost count on how often I've heard those very words by women coming up to me and whispering how foolish and stupid that guy is, trying to impress me with her value, that other men find her sexy, alluring and etc.

For many men, and I speak truthfully here, women are real easy, there's nothing to decode nor learn that's worth a man's time.

Those men, like me, spend their time wisely by improving themselves, removing women from that equation, removing game from their frame, it's all a hindrance towards their greatness.

I do not go to any social setting with the aim of meeting women, never once in my adult life, it has always been about making money, increasing my sphere of influence, etc.

And somehow women just keep dropping in my path.

Women want to do that. Always trying to be close to men. That's their primary objective.

Take Sosuave for example, how many times have I and others have dismissed some women here, even shamed them but yet they still come for more, still on a men's site that's for men, still wanting to be around.

You don't need to chase women, they'll come to you because I swear it's like they got this amazing sniffing ability to sniff out great men and zoom in on them.

And the good news is, you don't even need to be great, just being on the way to greatness is enough.

 

[GFella]

I would like to clarify what I meant. Or perhaps even change my entire stance. I remember now what I used to do. It has suddenly all come back to me....

I demand that women make an effort before I give them anything - not as a technique to attract them, elevate my status, or look non needy. Perhaps that's what I was implying before. So I guess that's why guys were telling me "Bro, why don't you approach without signals. It can come across as masculine and ballsy too."

See the whole thing is, I don't care about coming across as masculine, ballsy, well calibrated, non needy, attractive, high-status, or anything.

The reason why I have the "I don't reward women unless they make an effort" rule is because I am trying to mold women from the very beginning.

I am coming from the dominant frame of making women submit to my frame. And in my frame, I make up the rules. One of my rules is investment. If a woman wants my validation, she has to invest.

This is not technique to attract her. This is my attempt to mold her and have her submit to my dominance.

My game is a frame battle. It has nothing to do with seducing women at all. I literally out-frame women and say 'This is my reality. These are my rules, and you will do what I say."

I want to mold women according to my imagination by teaching them how to invest, offer value, and be a giver. It's like dog training. I reward her for her efforts so she learns how to behave around me. And one of my arbitrary rules that I made up is "She better make an effort if she wants a reward."

I attempt to dominate and mold women from the very beginning. There is no seduction whatsoever. In doing this, I polarize her and automatically make her feel feminine.

To me success is not getting a woman. It is getting a woman who likes me enough to want to follow my lead.

So in other words your "dominant frame" is to passively sit there "demanding" that women give you clear "signals" first. Sounds like you are the type of passive who would "demand" Sadie Hawkins day be voted in as a law every day for the rest of your life.

How does one passively sit back and do nothing while "demanding" women give 100% clear signals before his nuts drop?

Do you passively sit back pouting demanding a woman tie your shoes too?

 

[zekko]

I'm mainly interested in the conversation between @stormrider and @oldmanofthesea here. I would like to post some quotes to respond to, but there are almost too many points to address. So I'll just make a few comments:

The main thing that strikes me here is that a lot of guys are following their passions, hobbies, and interests. But it just so happens that these are not groups that contain a large number of hot single women, like Stormrider is talking about. So the question is, should a man really seek out passions and social groups that don't particularly interest him, just because there are hot women there? Because that doesn't sound like putting women on the "periphery", does it?

The next problem comes up with becoming the king/leader of these "tribes" or groups. If it's a special interests group, usually the leader is someone who is well skilled in that area, OR they are just natural leader types, in which case I guess you would call them naturals.

I agree that women will seduce the attractive men of a group. Just as men will seduce the attractive women of a group. IMO, it works both ways. I don't believe that using a direct approach necessarily translates to "chasing". First off, do you really think attractive women don't know we want to bang them? I would say they do, so nothing is being given away by a direct approach. It's pretty much Game 101 to approach, and then change frame to having her pursue.

Unless you're an incel, most guys going through life will end up getting some women. In that respect, it's not that complicated. If you fall into the right situation, women will do the work. But the average guy is not going to get the kind of abundance that guys on this forum aspire to.

So I guess these questions would be for Stormrider:
How do you choose which social groups you join? Do you make sure they are full of hot women before joining?
How do you become the leader of these groups? Like how do you become the leader of a yoga group if you are not a yogi?
What makes you an attractive male in these groups?

 

[GFella]

I'm mainly interested in the conversation between @stormrider and @oldmanofthesea here. I would like to post some quotes to respond to, but there are almost too many points to address. So I'll just make a few comments:

The main thing that strikes me here is that a lot of guys are following their passions, hobbies, and interests. But it just so happens that these are not groups that contain a large number of hot single women, like Stormrider is talking about. So the question is, should a man really seek out passions and social groups that don't particularly interest him, just because there are hot women there? Because that doesn't sound like putting women on the "periphery", does it?

The next problem comes up with becoming the king/leader of these "tribes" or groups. If it's a special interests group, usually the leader is someone who is well skilled in that area, OR they are just natural leader types, in which case I guess you would call them naturals.

I agree that women will seduce the attractive men of a group. Just as men will seduce the attractive women of a group. IMO, it works both ways. I don't believe that using a direct approach necessarily translates to "chasing". First off, do you really think attractive women don't know we want to bang them? I would say they do, so nothing is being given away by a direct approach. It's pretty much Game 101 to approach, and then change frame to having her pursue.

Unless you're an incel, most guys going through life will end up getting some women. In that respect, it's not that complicated. If you fall into the right situation, women will do the work. But the average guy is not going to get the kind of abundance that guys on this forum aspire to.

So I guess these questions would be for Stormrider:
How do you choose which social groups you join? Do you make sure they are full of hot women before joining?
How do you become the leader of these groups? Like how do you become the leader of a yoga group if you are not a yogi?
What makes you an attractive male in these groups?

I'd guess he becomes the "attractive male" in these majority woman groups he joins by doing the ol' "pretend you're ghey" routine he learned in his 10 years doing pua.

The women's guards get let down and they grind on the passive man who's no sexual threat to them.

Once they leave they get picked up and f'd by a dominant direct approach like @In2theGame

 

[In2theGame]

When it comes to Women, I think the Masculinity is slowly dying. Men talking about being passive, hanging back and playing it cool. Men and Women at their nature are designed to fvck and reproduce. Nothing else. Approaching a Woman boldly and directly represents a strong confident Man who does not care who's around, whether he's in a social circle or not. Whether he's in broad day light or in a dark cave. He sees what attracts him and goes forth to get it.

I'll tell a quick story - I remember when I was out at a lounge in midtown Manhattan with a group of my friends on a saturday night. We're sitting at this table on the second floor and I was having my usual Jack Daniels on the rocks... Coming up the stairs is this sexy brunette with a tight red dress and I can see she's with 3 of her other female friends as they post up by the bar talking their usual female yap. Told my friends "I'll be back in a bit"... Grabbed my drink and went right over to her by tapping her on the arm. She turns and I get close to her ear and ask "What's your name" She tells me its V. I said "Nice to meet you V, I saw when you first came up those stairs and I couldn't stop checking you out in that tight red sexy dress" She laughs and I smirk. I said "Come over here, let me get you a drink"... We start talking and about 10 minutes in I cut her off from talking basic sh!t. I get close to her ear again and say "Turn around because I'm loving this body right now" I grab her hand and slowly twirl her around 360 so I can see all the goods. She says "You like what you see?" I said "No, I love what I see". I put my hands around her waist and now shes rubbing bodies with me until the point I start making out with her. 25 Minutes later, I have her up against the wall as she's dripping down her thigh if you know what I mean. I did not get to fvck her that night because one of her friends drank too much and I was like ok but she left with the biggest smile on her face.

The next day she texts me to see if I am available the following weekend and I am. (She travels 2 hours to meet me in Manhattan) We meet up and moving past the boring details, We end up about to fvck. I picked her tight ass up and laid her on the bed and ripped her top off. As im pulling down her panties with my mouth she starts giggling like crazy. I stop and asked her "What's so funny?" She says "I KNEW IT!". At this point I was confused and asked "Knew what?" she says, enthusiastically i might add, "I knew you were dominant like this! the way you came up to me and how you were talking to me, i wondered if you were a dominant type of guy so I was RIGHT!" and right she was as i aggressively fvcked her nice and hard. End of a story with 100% factual events.

Men need to stop with the feminization that continues to pour all over the world and the dynamics of the masculine man is dying out and Women CRAVE this! They want it so badly. This is not a one off event either, I have MANY! MANY! experiences similar to this. not to mention the time i decided to go out alone, No social circle, No friends, only myself... I left the bar with not one but two hot and tight 21 year olds that were in New York from Philadelphia. Or how about a rich blonde girl who drove 2 and a half hours on the regular for me to fvck her good or give me a BJ in the car while I test drive her new Mercedes Benz which was the result of me boldly approaching her when i first met her at an exclusive NYC lounge.

Once again, My advice to you guys, Be fvcking bold and go approach that Woman you desire. Be that Man that she craves badly.

 

[guru1000]

Silly discussion really.

To be make an informed, decision, look at your own results AND limitations. Period.

Some will have better results in cold approach, others in OLD, others in social circle, others in a venue hierarchy--or a combination of it all.

Social circle game is limited as there is no unlimited amount of 8s and 9s within a circle, whereas in other type of approaches the limitation may be the whole city.

The limitations in cold approach is time, effort, and numbers of attractive women you can approach.

The limitation in OLD is the investment upfront into your pic portfolio and one's appearance.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any type of approach. It's a zero sum game.

This discussion is akin to a few guys with similar net worths who are describing the best way to make money, while discounting others' strengths and weaknesses in amassing their own wealth.

It's kind of like my posting OLD convos of models opening me up or asking if I'm dtf, and soliciting everyone to only do this because it is the easiest way without describing how I look relative to these women, the upfront investments I made, how I got there, AND the limitations that some men may never get there no matter how much they do invest.

'https://s682.photobucket.com/user/guru1000/media/IMG_8753_zpsjerfni9j.png.html?o=0

'https://s682.photobucket.com/user/guru1000/media/IMG_8757_zps8g5fylxq.png.html?o=1

'https://s682.photobucket.com/user/guru1000/media/IMG_7635_zpsj85oqdgd.png.html?o=10'

'https://s682.photobucket.com/user/guru1000/media/IMG_6989_zpswnt0pinn.png.html?o=15'

You see, this is the easiest way. Five minutes of work for 12 dates with hot women. You should only do this, else you are in the feminine imperative. LOL. It would be silly for me to say that the average man should strive to do this or even worse ONLY do this.

To the men looking for answers: Find your niche and run with it. All else are ego investments.

 

[cheyne]

^^You must be legit male model handsome! Good stuff!!!!

 

[zekko]

@stormrider, one question:
How tall are you?

Also, I was wondering if you intentionally pick places to go that will have many women, or is that just coincidence?

 

[Spaz]

If you want to ask me personal questions send me a pm. I don't want to be some case study on the forums, lol.

I make sure I have a purpose everywhere I go. I have found that when I show up with intent and no purpose, women run for the hills.

They can smell it on you. Even if I walk around aimlessly on the streets with intent, women cross the street to the other side walk.

But if my purpose is "I'm heading to the gym," suddenly women are smiling at me. Intent without purpose = loser mode. You cannot fool them. They know an aimless loser when they see one.

Whenever my mind is occupied with some purpose, I get negged by women left and right trying to get my attention.

You have to be "full" and "complete" to give off an aura of value. And purpose fulfills most of the requirements. You can't walk around trying to get women to complete you.

That's why I am astounded by guys who are like "I go out with the intent of meeting women, I approach them directly and they are impressed." To me, that looks like a 1 lay out of 100 approach method. Or you are fishing for the bottom of the barrel women, or any woman who is willing to have sex with you. But hey if you are getting abundance from that, then more power to you.

So what is my purpose? It is networking. I do it for business, and also socially. I am always trying to extend my social circles, infiltrate social circles, network with movers and shakers, etc.

I am an "idea" and a "people" person, so it comes naturally to me. My default personality usually takes over and people start being intrigued by my philosophies and vision.

I have met many men who have introduced me to their social circles and hot women. I am not a PUA. I spend a lot of time networking with men as well.

It is rare to go to social events on the weekends and see nothing but guys. That's the night clubs.

All I have to say is my social life is balanced enough that there are women in it. Maybe not 90/10 ratio. But there is enough. And I am always moving with a sense of purpose. So even if nothing happens, I am able to check off my list of things to do for that day.

P.S. Where I'm at, there are a lot of desperate guys who spam approach, so maybe the social dynamics are different. Where I am at, there is nothing impressive about approaching women and going direct. You'd just be the 20th guy for the night. Not saying it doesn't work. But women aren't going to be like "OMG, you are so much more confident then the other 19 guys that approached me."

I can't imagine any scenario where approaching women is considered some super human ability unless we are back in high school and every guy was still a b1tch. Some guys on this forum talk about approaching as if it's equivolent to bench pressing 500 lbs. That's projecting your own inner b1tchassness. I've done thousands of approaches. It means very little to me.

I trust you don't mind me expanding a little on ur post since you brought up an important topic, one that's received little attention in this forum.

Social networking is the most powerful tool to success.

If u r a businessman that deals in rare earth materials, a software company owner or a softdrink manufacturer, the product that you sell is secondary to that of ur frame, when u r out and about, u r selling 1st and foremost ur frame or if you like yourself, ur products is secondary.

And its ur frame that gets to sell sand to the Arabs and ice creams to the Eskimos.

When you shiet, it has to be golden.

Every successful businessman knows this to be true.

Going back to ur quoted post above, yes its true, in that we see eye to eye on how the dynamics work, which is actually nothing new nor of genius level, this has been the practice of men since time immemorial.

And even since time immemorial, there has always been men 'direct approaching' women and we all know those types. And we all know which women desires to have in the end.

 

[Spaz]

Seems to me that the guys who refuse to approach are disguising fear. They pretend that women are subservient/unimportant/low priority, because they need an excuse to never have to risk failure or dissappoval or mockery or ridicule.

So, even though it is much easier to feign disinterest, I'm also convinced that most women see right through that facade.

Disinterested, non-approach guy isn't fooling anybody by ignoring or feigning disinterest in a beautiful woman and/or making fun of her fake nails. They know we wanna fvuck em.

No matter how fearful or indignant or fed up I get NOTHING stops me from approaching and attracting beautiful women. I go to the gym because I want to have a jaw-dropping physique because I want to attract any woman of my choosing. I certainly don't go because I like torturing my mind and body. I wish I could eat pizza and beer all day and still be ripped and muscular.

I simply do not care if they don't like my approaching them. I'm more miserable NOT approaching them. I am more miserable ALLOWING the fear to prevent me from going in the direction of my choice.

Guys who do approach are disguising fear, too, but in my opinion, at least they are willing to stick their neck out and fail/risk dissapproval/ridicule/sting of rejection. Men go after it and explore and embrace challenges. And women can sense this, too.

Tenaciously pursuing my goals and risking failure is what makes anything in life worth achieving, in my opinion. I never expect my own interests to outweigh my interest in women.

And when you lose that jaw dropping physique or even ur youthfulness as you age, then where is ur depth to attract women?

What do you have beside superficiality?

This here is something for you to ponder on, not gonna post something last week or even yesterday's chat but current as in a few hours ago....



Buddy, superficiality yes is important but so are other traits, it's a package deal that makes a man, with superficiality being at the last rung of the ladder.

 

[cheyne]

That's how it's done, lol (not me obvs! Some handsome fukker who posts on a pickup group)

 

[apotheosis]

View attachment 2954

That's how it's done, lol (no met obvs! Some handsome fukker who posts on a pickup group)

Hot! Looks about 18.
That's why good looks are more powerful than 'being a man on his path' and all that stuff lol
He would have got ignored if she didn't think he was super hot, even if he was completely rich and could afford nice restaurants and knew VIP social circles etc
For young girls, looks beats everything else -she'd rather go to pizzahut and bang that dude than kick if with some old rich guy lol

 

[Medina]

Seems to me that the guys who refuse to approach are disguising fear. They pretend that women are subservient/unimportant/low priority, because they need an excuse to never have to risk failure or dissappoval or mockery or ridicule.

So, even though it is much easier to feign disinterest, I'm also convinced that most women see right through that facade.

Disinterested, non-approach guy isn't fooling anybody by ignoring or feigning disinterest in a beautiful woman and/or making fun of her fake nails. They know we wanna fvuck em.

No matter how fearful or indignant or fed up I get NOTHING stops me from approaching and attracting beautiful women. I go to the gym because I want to have a jaw-dropping physique because I want to attract any woman of my choosing. I certainly don't go because I like torturing my mind and body. I wish I could eat pizza and beer all day and still be ripped and muscular.

I simply do not care if they don't like my approaching them. I'm more miserable NOT approaching them. I am more miserable ALLOWING the fear to prevent me from going in the direction of my choice.

Guys who do approach are disguising fear, too, but in my opinion, at least they are willing to stick their neck out and fail/risk dissapproval/ridicule/sting of rejection. Men go after it and explore and embrace challenges. And women can sense this, too.

Tenaciously pursuing my goals and risking failure is what makes anything in life worth achieving, in my opinion. I never expect my own interests to outweigh my interest in women.

Good post and worth exploring

The correct word though is pride

By approaching women you are gambling with your pride as a MAN

One must ask himself if this depreciation is worth it

I don't think it is

Tyler talks about letting go of ego, so there is some merit

I think the guys against DIRECT (including me) probably have the most self respect

Something to think about

 

[MillionBillionaire]

Direct game is for desperate fools who have zero understanding of seduction.

I love watching direct game blow outs at the club. even if they are making out the woman usually runs away.

The Art of Seduction.

It took me about 10 years for this stuff to fully integrate into my soul.

"Enter her spirit and put her under a spell."

Art of Seduction is prolly the most under rated book in history.

 

[Medina]

This is my personal opinion and you're not gonna like it:

Married men have no business logging onto sosuave and preaching about gaming women and self-respect and pride. Your perception and knowledge about the DJ mindset is theoretical at best.

No it's always nice to receive a personal attack

It separates the men from everyone else

I know exactly what you are now

Thanks

 

[zekko]

Married men have no business logging onto sosuave and preaching about direct approach and self-respect and pride. Your perception and knowledge about the DJ mindset is theoretical at best.

I'm not married, but I've been in an XLTR (exclusive long term relationship) for 15 years with no intention to cheat. So I'm not in the game either. Currently. But that doesn't mean I haven't had experience with women. I've approached, spun plates, been picked up, self improved, had successes, crashed and burned, and been through a lot of different phases and situations.

I don't think a relationship status should exclude someone's right from posting here, or giving opinions based on his experiences.

As for direct vs. indirect approach, I'm surprised there's so much animosity between the two sides. Both approaches seem valid to me, both have their pros and cons, and both can be successful. I don't see what there is to fight about.

 

[In2theGame]

Direct game is for desperate fools who have zero understanding of seduction.

How do you figure this?

 

[In2theGame]

View attachment 2954

That's how it's done, lol (not me obvs! Some handsome fukker who posts on a pickup group)

Definitely hot chick, I couldn't do OLD much although I had messages on Bumble when I was on it temporarily. I preferred the in person approach.