Anyone find direct game less effective?

[Medina]

I thought about this a lot last weekend where I made out with (unfortunately couldn't close) one of the hottest girls of my life. Way younger than me, and my idea of a 9. I really strongly feel that a direct approach on her would have gotten me a pretty rough rejection, but in being indirect and 'friendly' and hiding my intent intially and building a connection throughout the night and familiarity and playfulness etc, I feel I was able to amplify that small amount of attraction that she had for me. (And since she kissed me, i'm sure that the intial attraction WAS there, but it would have been bordlerine at best, and not high enough to NOT get rejected if i'd have opened and told her she was hot and made her decide then and there whether she was interested)

This is why I never kiss

You get the number and you bail

Kissing makes you random drunk guy encounter

Gotta keep her wandering, and thus, wanting more

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Yeah, that's what I meant in terms of 'direct'.

I notice that the consensus seems to be cyclical in the industry. It's actually kind of fascinating lol. We have 3 months or so where every PUA coach and PUA forum is advocating opening indirect with an opinion openers or something, hiding your intent to some extent (until she is giving you huge IOI's), being aloof etc, and then it just seems to 'flip'and the consensus is about opening and being super direct from the get-go, showing your cards. ''Be masculine and vulnerable!'' etc.

It flips every few months, and it's been that way since the mysterymethod days, i'm sure!

The problem as RooshV documents in Game, the culture and women have changed. I have to put on work years ago. With apps and ghosting, I have lost count of the girls names and no patience with female logic or stupidity. The attack is false accusations 30 yrs prior with no consequence or fallout accompanied by no proof. It is not so much as contradicting sexual strategies but full blown tyranny in the event of cratered SMV. Ski down cawk mountain, run through bad boys, and cry foul when best years are over. Look at #metoo. Hollywood is not knocking her door down. Insert false accusations. The band leader was screwing minors she played the mother with when kid was 11.

Its a promo for victimhood when a teacher woman bangs male student. The pitch girks are out when men do it.

I cannot stress enough that men need to #next @ any sight of feminism, victimhood, any anti male crapy (patriarchy or toxic masculinity, anti fatherhood etc).

At the moment, direct is very much in vogue, every PUA site/blog/forum I read', ''Game'' = walking up too a girl, telling her you noticed her and that you think she's hot/cute, and then seeing if she's feeling it or not. If not, walk away to the next hot girl and try again

Basically, spam approach. I think the basic concepts hold weight. There's no magic bullet. You play whatever hand you are dealt. At 6ft, i can step up hard enough the way someone 6'5 should not. Someone of manlet status should step up balls to the wall. Again, i stress context.

I prefer assuming attraction, approach the way i would have after pulling and smashin rotten. Utter indifference and every set is practice. Not gf or wifey but practice. #nextSet

I'm just saying that, for me, i've started to notice that direct doesn't seem to give me the best results. I'm aware that this is likely down to the fact i'm in the UK, combined with the (possibly more important) fact that, i'm not the most handsome dude there is.

Attractive and deezed. Def no model or Chad's or Tyrone status.

Couple with a culture that demonise man, masculinity, promo for girl power and victimhood, its strange times.

Looks max. Get deezed. Lift. Be fit. Increase probability to your favor. Play your hand. Maximise charm, game, lifestyle, etc.

I am not every chicks type. I am particularly interested in feminine, dtf, and submissive. The culture promotes body positivity, cawk carousel, non-maternal, and uselessness. The fact is that, i don't click with every chick nor sm i supposed to be.

On a +, the evolution is bachelor life, and pad. I live a minimalist life. I exercise. I lift. I don't need a enormous home. I am not provider male nor am i trying to be. I have my own business and ambition. I have little interest in the simp lifestyle.

Its pretty profound to realise that we are free. We can live in a way where expense is minimal. The corporate ladder and divorce rape beaten path is a thing of the past. For any awakened man who dares to march to the beat of his own drum, this life has much to experience and explore.

Evolution is the solution. Women are better at adaptation. They are by their natute aware. The war brides phenomenon is a example. The way women are back on the carousel post breakup asap or post divorce when the ink isn't dry yet.

Marriage is dead. The more I experience, the more I enjoy solitude and I play the game purely for sport.

I thought about this a lot last weekend where I made out with (unfortunately couldn't close) one of the hottest girls of my life. Way younger than me, and my idea of a 9. I really strongly feel that a direct approach on her would have gotten me a pretty rough rejection, but in being indirect and 'friendly' and hiding my intent intially and building a connection throughout the night and familiarity and playfulness etc, I feel I was able to amplify that small amount of attraction that she had for me. (And since she kissed me, i'm sure that the intial attraction WAS there, but it would have been bordlerine at best, and not high enough to NOT get rejected if i'd have opened and told her she was hot and made her decide then and there whether she was interested)

Just another brick in the wall. Not the last one nor your last chance at love lulz. Live and learn mate.

I have found, theirs a peak in the night during the interaction. Its only downhill there on. Her ex shows up, her friends are kicked out, and any number of things happen.

Think T2 - Arnold - come with me. Hand, door, car, smash. Embed urgency. Time to go. The urgency of a man who sees a terrorist with a bomb strapped to his chest lololol.

What I'd have given for ^ said piece of advice in my teens lol.

Rsd/Alex social gave the advice : it doesn't matter the moves you make. It matters that you are a man who makes moves.

#noRegrets

You see many Chad's who lack game but won genetic lottery get cucked. Brad Pitt for example. I know guys from high school who got cucked by high school sweet heart. There's no magic pill. A lot of men are lost.

I rest easy doing my best and learning thereafter. Hard having a thick skull lulz!

 

[fastlife]

Is this ur experience from teens up until now?

Or is it something you just learned in adulthood?

Nah. In elementary - high school I was popular & good at sports. In college I was popular & good at partying. And after that I worked in a bar with pretty much nothing but attractive girls.

So my experience was on having girls thrown themselves at me. But got into a two year relationship—focused on being a ‘good dude’ to ‘alleviate her insecurities’ & when that went south, I found myself in a new city working a job with nothing but old dudes that involved spending all day in front of a computer.

My environment no longer was handing out freebies, I rebounded through 3 or 4 hot girls from some of my old social circles—found them all having red flags—and, although I’d had successful cold approaches in the past, found myself getting rejected by girls who weren’t even hot enough for me to fvck. Still a couple freebies—but they were absolutely insane lol.

Found some resources, spent 5 nights a week going out, mostly getting rejected for half a year, and then getting rejected less, etc. Within 12 mos of the breakup I was killing it—more quality & quantity than I’d had in the 25 yrs up to that point.

Before, I was dependent on my environment. All of my value was external. My options had comprised a tiny, tiny portion of the global market.

Nowadays, there aren’t any hot 18, 19, 20 y/o’s in any of my social circles. And there aren’t any girls I’d still fvck from any of my old ones. So I’m glad I figured sh1t out when I did & it’s why I strongly advocate EVERY guy learn how to cold approach & it’s why I argue with ppl who espouse misinformation—or limited information.

The game has changed because society has changed

Women have a dozen apps for attention wh0ring now, their inboxes are full of thirsty men, they get validated in some form or another every single day

So what happens when she meets a guy who doesnt do this?

It makes her become feminine again. Because she slips into a submissive "please validate me" state. Instead of a high self esteem "oh look another dude who thinks im amazing" state.

Its another thing social media has ruined

Not my experience. All SM has done is made the value of approaching in person more effective (but with much smaller windows), and has made phone game, social media game, any type of game that goes longer than 24 hours, a waste of time.

The fact that her inbox is full means that, as soon as she’s gone & your emotional impact starts to fade, you’re done. Your validation is easily replaced. Her emotions are exposed to constant stimuli.

You’re better off making things happen THAT night or timebridging super hard and texting as soon as you get her number and keeping logistics super simple.

Any devalidation has to be done actively. So, you approach her, and say things like, “You’re so stuck up.” “It’ll never work out—you’re too high maintenance.” “I thought you were cute at first, but my attraction for you—down here.”

Again, if you’re limiting yourself to a social circle where you already have high value and you see her everyday, sure, by all means play the long game. Be disinterested. But if you’re trying to pull hot girls from a night club or during the day, that’s a one way ticket to flakesville. Gotta make it happen.

 

[guru1000]

Reading this thread it's easy to differentiate those who bang hot girls from those who do not.

 

[Spaz]

Reading this thread it's easy to differentiate those who bang hot girls from those who do not.

Guru baby, I'm interested in how you pull hot women.

Is it primarily through advertising on social media by using photoshop?

 

[Spaz]

Good point- most guys sit around and do nothing and expect results. Women, finances, etc.

Those guys that put time into bettering themselves (socially, financially, health) will see a tremendous improvement in how often they are approached. But it takes hard work and that is the deal breaker for most lazy people.

Note I didnt say putting time into chasing women. Them pursuing the guy is the byproduct of the hard work them put into themselves.

So many posted on here but only you got it right.

Sad.

 

[guru1000]

Guru baby, I'm interested in how you pull hot women.

Is it primarily through advertising on social media by using photoshop?

Considering the group pics you once posted showed you date entirely average looking Asian girls, the first question you should ask Guru is how does he find and date pro and public models regularly.

And once you take a seat and allow class to begin, Guru will post some more pics of his ex Playboy model gf and other pro models with Guru himself. But you have to be nice and call me your Guru first.

 

[Spaz]

I'll break it down to you in the simplest terms possible using common vocabulary.

Let's say romance is H20. It's chemistry. Certain elements have to exist in order for there to be romance. If certain elements don't exist, the H20 becomes CO2. It becomes something else entirely.

A man must have power for attraction to EXIST. You going after her when she hasn't made any effort on her part lowers your power/attraction. She cannot place any sense of value on you unless she makes an effort to win you over.

This is just value 101. No rocket science whatsoever. Just like on this forum. You only click the "like" button when someone posts something of quality. Direct game is like clicking the "like" button when the girl just exists. It looks pathetic and needy. At best you are feeding into her vanity and will have to supplicate to her just to get laid. This is NOT romance. This is the CO2 I was alluding to.

All romance is WOMEN making an effort and YOU rewarding her effort.

This does not mean being inactive. You can reward her by showing interest - only after she has made a worthy effort.

This also does not mean you cannot approach without appearing needy/desperate/low status.

When a girl eye fvcks the sh1t out of you and gives you a window the size of the atlantic ocean and she is standing 5 feet away from you, it is safe to say that approaching her won't make you appear needy. This is common sense.

Have I lost anyone yet?

But even if you approach, the meta-frame of the interaction is still she is pursuing you. Maybe she has no approach game and the best she can do is eye-fvck you to lure you in. That's okay because she is still the pursuer.

Even when I approach women, I am just throwing out a bait. I am still screening her to see if she is a headcase or not. As soon as she starts frontin, playing games, or act entitled, I am OUT. What most PUA's (male seducers) do is they try to calibrate to this sh1tty a$$ behavior. They have no standards and boundaries whatsoever.

My goal is not to get laid. My goal is to empower myself in all facets of life - including romance.

I am never pursuing, even when I approach. And I usually don't approach until she gives me so much attention that I start to feel empowered by her warmth and affection. And when talking to her, I allow her to seduce me with her feminine charms. She is the one who will use plausible deniability to get me to be alone with her. I.e. "Yeah we should definitely do such and such together sometime." She is the one who will be licking her lips, brushing her chest into me, and rubbing her ass on my crotch. This is all universal female game. This has happened to be HUNDREDS of times. If you are an attractive guy, all you need to do is interact with women and they will use a pretense to try to get you to be alone with them. Why does an attractor have to pursue? That's like having a Lamborghini and begging street folks to drive it. It makes no sense from a value perspective.

The real secret as a masculine man is all you need is presence and appreciation. A masculine presence and a sense of appreciation for her feminine essence is literally all that is needed from you. No stupid a$$ routines. Her role is to bask in your presence, feel your warmth, open herself up, and invite you in. This is the masculine-feminine dynamic.

There is no way that a guy can get laid on a regular basis and not know this. There is no game involved. No pursuing. Just interacting and basking in sexual tension. Flirting, having fun, etc. Being yourself. And then the two of you finding an excuse to be alone. But the entire time, the dynamic is that YOU are the attractor and SHE is the sexual seducer. This is how BOTH of you keep your empowerment. You feel empowered because you know you have to power to attract her, and she feels empowered because she gets to seduce you with her femininity. You going along with her seduction is giving her a positive feedback loop.

The reason why most guys don't know that women are the real seducers is because they don't interact with women in broad daylight. The clubs dilute women's value. If you were in a big social circle consisting of beautiful women, you will find out right away that YOU are the target. They all conspire and talk about you. And it's a competition to see who can get you first. Women love the challenge of seducing high status men. It is THEIR game and THEIR domain. You guys don't know this because you do not have a social life outside the bars/clubs.

A man's domain is not seduction. His domain is masculine dominance (which equates to power and attraction). Your job is not to calibrate to women. Your job is to be powerful enough that people calibrate to YOU.

When a man forgets his true purpose, he becomes a seducer. He thinks that's where all the power is at. He's operating from the feminine.

And then there's another one who gets it right.

 

[Spaz]

Considering the group pics you once posted showed you date entirely average looking Asian girls, the first question you should ask Guru is how does he find and date pro and public models regularly.

And once you take a seat and allow class to begin, Guru will post some more pics of his ex Playboy model gf and other pro models with Guru himself. But you have to be nice and call me your Guru first.

Guru baby dearest, you don't know how to do it huh?

You ain't no guru.

That's why I called you King of the Feminine Imperative.

All you know is superficiality, a domain of the feminine.

 

[guru1000]

Guru baby dearest, you don't know how to do it huh?

You ain't no guru.

That's why I called you King of the Feminine Imperative.

All you know is superficiality, a domain of the feminine.

Is this your excuse to date average looking women, that you are not superficial? Lol

I’d say men who date average looking women fall within the “feminine imperative” as they lack the type of masculinity to attract the hottest women of the tribe.

So If I were King, that makes you Queen. Be nice to your King, and he will teach you how to attract hot women.

 

[Spaz]

Is this your excuse to date average looking women, that you are not superficial? Lol

I’d say men who date average looking women fall within the “feminine imperative” as they lack the type of masculinity to attract the hottest women of the tribe.

So If I were King, that makes you Queen. Be nice to your King, and he will teach you how to attract hot women.

Even ur rebuttals sound mechanical and lack originality.

No wonder you keep on rehashing on how to look pretty on OLD apps.

At least try talking about pedicures and manicures, illuminate us all.

 

[guru1000]

Even ur rebuttals sound mechanical and lack originality.

No wonder you keep on rehashing on how to look pretty on OLD apps.

At least try talking about pedicures and manicures, illuminate us all.

Tsk tsk tsk I understand your frustration brother. I would be too with those women in your pics.

Call me your Guru and alas ... I promise ... the floodgates of hot women shall open for you. And the big bad feminine imperative will eviscerate entirely before your eyes and from your consciousness ... forever.

 

[Spaz]

Tsk tsk tsk I understand your frustration brother. I would be too with those women in your pics.

Call me your Guru and alas ... I promise ... the floodgates of hot women shall open for you. And the big bad feminine imperative will eviscerate entirely before your eyes and from your consciousness ... forever.

You mean those floodgates of chats you're had filed away for months and then posted on here?

Sorry brother, I only ever posted current ones, maybe the most was a day or 2, I'm not in the habit of filing chat conversations for months in my hard drives.

 

[guru1000]

You mean those floodgates of chats you're had filed away for months and then posted on here?

Sorry brother, I only ever posted current ones, maybe the most was a day or 2, I'm not in the habit of filing chat conversations for months in my hard drives.

Probably because those average girls you have provide no threat of the MeToo movement; likely because you don’t have much they can come after and they don’t have cell phones to find a lawyer in a third world country lol

Goodnight Spaz, always a pleasure.

 

[Spaz]

Probably because those average girls you have provide no threat of the MeToo movement; likely because you don’t have much they can come after and they don’t have cell phones to find a lawyer in a third world country lol

If that's ur maximum rebuttal in this thread, then I know for sure you ain't fvcking on the regular.

All this while you merely projected an image, a clever ruse but still a ruse.

Seeking validation on a forum.

Sad case.

 

[apotheosis]

'Self improvement' (get a better job to earn more money, learn a language, learn the guitar etc etc) is a good thing to do for oneself, but it's not really gonna effect your chances at getting laid with hot young girls, tbh
I see this on 'seddit' all the time with guys trying to take the inner game/ ''self improvement' route and spend years learning new skills and trying to earn more money and still getting rejected (and certainly never approached lol)
My brother is very successful financially, but he's never been a lady killer lol!! (although he can afford to buy very expensive, hot hookers lol. Legal here)
End of the day, she needs to find you physically attractive/handsome.
You can however move to Thailand or the Philipines or whatever and your success WILL shoot up through the roof (that's what most 'successful' guys are actually doing on PUA forums etc)

 

[GFella]

If that's ur maximum rebuttal in this thread, then I know for sure you ain't fvcking on the regular.

All this while you merely projected an image, a clever ruse but still a ruse.

Seeking validation on a forum.

Sad case.

You can't even produce a single good morning from a woman?

You have much to learn

 

[In2theGame]

I'll break it down to you in the simplest terms possible using common vocabulary.

Let's say romance is H20. It's chemistry. Certain elements have to exist in order for there to be romance. If certain elements don't exist, the H20 becomes CO2. It becomes something else entirely.

A man must have power for attraction to EXIST. You going after her when she hasn't made any effort on her part lowers your power/attraction. She cannot place a value judgement on you unless she makes an effort to win you over. You validating her for nothing = robbing her the chance of valuing you.

This is just value 101. No rocket science whatsoever. Just like on this forum. You only click the "like" button when someone posts something of quality, otherwise you have no standards. If you hold men to standards, then shouldn't you hold women to standards too? Direct game is like clicking the "like" button when the girl just exists. It looks pathetic and needy. At best you are feeding into her vanity and will have to supplicate to her just to get laid. This is NOT romance. This is the CO2 I was alluding to.

All romance is WOMEN making an effort and YOU rewarding her effort. - This right here is the all elusive "perfect chemistry" that women always talk about but cannot articulate.

This does not mean being inactive. You can reward her by showing interest - only after she has made a worthy effort.

This also does not mean you cannot approach without appearing needy/desperate/low status.

When a girl eye fvcks the sh1t out of you and gives you a window the size of the atlantic ocean and she is standing 5 feet away from you, it is safe to say that approaching her won't make you appear needy. This is common sense.

Have I lost anyone yet?

But even if you approach, the meta-frame of the interaction is still she is pursuing you. Maybe she has no approach game and the best she can do is eye-fvck you to lure you in. That's okay because she is still the pursuer.

Even when I approach women, I am just throwing out a bait. I am still screening her to see if she is a headcase or not. As soon as she starts frontin, playing games, or acting entitled, I am OUT. What most PUA's (male seducers) do is they try to calibrate to this sh1tty a$$ behavior. They have no standards and boundaries whatsoever.

My goal is not to get laid. My goal is to empower myself in all facets of life - including romance.

I am never pursuing, even when I approach. And I usually don't approach until she gives me so much attention that I start to feel empowered by her warmth and affection. And when talking to her, I allow her to seduce me with her feminine charms. She is the one who will use plausible deniability to get me to be alone with her. I.e. "Yeah we should definitely do such and such together sometime." She is the one who will be licking her lips, brushing her chest into me, and rubbing her ass on my crotch. This is all universal female game. This has happened to be HUNDREDS of times. If you are an attractive guy, all you need to do is interact with women and they will use a pretense to try to get you to be alone with them. Why does an attractor have to pursue? That's like having a Lamborghini and begging street folks to drive it. It makes no sense from a value perspective.

The real secret as a masculine man is all you need is presence and appreciation. A masculine presence and a sense of appreciation for her feminine essence is literally all that is needed from you. No stupid a$$ routines. Her role is to bask in your presence, feel your warmth, open herself up, and invite you in. This is the masculine-feminine dynamic.

There is no way that a guy can get laid on a regular basis and not know this. There is no game involved. No pursuing. Just interacting and basking in sexual tension. Flirting, having fun, etc. Being yourself. And then the two of you finding an excuse to be alone. But the entire time, the dynamic is that YOU are the attractor and SHE is the sexual seducer. This is how BOTH of you keep your empowerment. You feel empowered because you know you have the power to attract her, and she feels empowered because she gets to seduce you with her femininity. You going along with her seduction is giving her a positive feedback loop. And in bed, she gets turned on when YOU are turned on. So even in bed, she is still the seducer. Your only job is to use her to get off. It sounds misogynistic, but women desire to be used as sex objects.

The reason why most guys don't know that women are the real seducers is because they don't interact with women in broad daylight. The clubs dilute women's value. If you were in a big social circle consisting of beautiful women, you will find out right away that YOU are the target. They all conspire and talk about you. And it's a competition to see who can get you first. Women love the challenge of seducing high status men. It is THEIR game and THEIR domain. You guys don't know this because you do not have a social life outside the bars/clubs.

A man's domain is not seduction. His domain is masculine dominance (which equates to power and attraction). Your job is not to calibrate to women. Your job is to be powerful enough that people calibrate to YOU.

When a man forgets his true purpose, he becomes a seducer. He thinks that's where all the power is at. He's operating from the feminine.

Ironically, ALL women know exactly what I am talking about. They have an innate sense of value. They know they don't deserve anything until they've made an effort. And when guys reward them for nothing, they are saddened - especially if he was handsome and seemed cool. They want to feel attraction for cool guys. Women do not want to see cool guys ruin themselves by supplicating.

Most guys are confused because attraction seems like a paradox. How can you show interest without pursuing? When you learn how to live within this paradox, all the mysteries of women will reveal themselves to you.

Why not simplify things?

• See the Woman you are attracted to.
• Approach that Woman and clearly verbally communicate that you find her sexually attractive and desire to know her.
• She is either going to enjoy the approach or going to politely excuse herself by communicating that she either is involved with someone already or that she is not interested in reciprocating your desire.

Countless Women have told me themselves, they love a Man who can straight up approach them and tell them that they find them sexually attractive. In fact, I have done the laid back approach thing a few times and waited for Women to "approach me", When I finally approached them, they communicated to me that they thought I was too puzzy to come up to them or some Women made comments like "Why did you wait to come talk to me?" It made me feel like a chump because they were right, I should have approached right when I saw them and found them attractive.

I am never pursuing, even when I approach. And I usually don't approach until she gives me so much attention that I start to feel empowered by her warmth and affection.

Why wait until she's giving you attention? If you think she's hot, you should simply go over to her and let her know what you think. I respect the fact that we all have different styles however based on my own experience, the sexiest Women I have been with, I had to go approach them and make it happen.

On the high status and financial aspect of things, Sure Women will want to fvck you but are they fvcking you for your ability to get them wet due to your sexual prowess and aura? or is it because she views you as a way to gain possible financial privileges through sex? Years ago when I was at my lowest point financially, I was fvcking a ton of Women who were in the high status scene, meaning they were around "High Status" Men all the time with Millions of Dollars yet I was fvcking them being broke. How could this be? because I went right up to them and let my desires known when most guys wont do that. If she did not reciprocate, That was perfectly fine... there's millions of other sexy Women to choose from.

Again, I respect the fact that everyone has their viewpoints and perspectives but I can only speak from my own experiences and/or what Women have communicated to me.

 

[In2theGame]

You obviously do not have abundance from this approach. If you did, then you wouldn't need me to validate it.

Your actions betray your words, my friend. I would give you a rebuttal, but you yourself do not believe in the words you are saying, so it's not worth it.

Your entire post is simply you telling YOURSELF, not me, but YOU, that you should be aggressive because it looks more manly. You say this to yourself because you yourself have approach anxiety and a difficult time being aggressive...And you also had past regrets where the women clearly gave you signs but you didn't do anything. You are projecting your own chumpness onto me.

Ok stormrider.

 

[zekko]

The more I read here, the more I'm convinced this entire argument is BS. Different men have different attributes, with different personalities, who like different types of women, and what works for one guy may be different than what works for another.

Whether you use a direct or indirect approach, you are indicating your interest in her either way. With one, you just do it in a more round about way than the other, or the expressed interest is delayed a bit to give you a chance to run game or DHV.

As for the idea that a woman must work for you in order to feel attraction, that may have some merit, and it sounds good on the surface of it, but it doesn't quite make sense. If a woman works for you, she must feel attraction for you in the first place, otherwise why would she work for you? But how could she be feeling attraction for you if she hasn't worked for you yet? It's like the chicken and the egg.

Aside from making obvious mistakes like being a needy, desperate, pvssy, an attractive man can generally choose any number of techniques and have them work for him. An unattractive man, less so. In either case, it still just comes down to a numbers game.