Anthony Ellis claims he got this big naturally

[mrRuckus]

Yeh. You can get that big natural but not in 12 weeks!!

It's not possible to put on around 35lb (40lb) muscle in 12 weeks and lose 5% bf at the same time. What he has achieved there would take around 2 years of hard work not 12 weeks.

Do you realize that increasing your muscle mass automatically decreases your bf%? You now have more muscle so fat is a lower overall percentage of your weight.

And no it takes no where near 2 years to gain 35 lbs. It's way easy to put on that much by eating and lifting properly when you first start. Especially if you weigh nothing to begin with.

 

[Viroid]

Thats easily attainable by natural means...EASILY

So I will gladly take your thousands of dollars, had this actually been a real bet.

Not in 4 months, bub.

 

[Viroid]

35lbs in 12 weeks. Thats 3lbs a week PEOPLE!! Thats not natural. Hell, some guys who juice dont even gain that much!

 

[dirtyvibe]

Do you realize that increasing your muscle mass automatically decreases your bf%? You now have more muscle so fat is a lower overall percentage of your weight.

And no it takes no where near 2 years to gain 35 lbs. It's way easy to put on that much by eating and lifting properly when you first start. Especially if you weigh nothing to begin with.

thats a common myth, you don't put on muscle faster when you're a beginner.

 

[dirtyvibe]

35 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks..
thats 3 months.

there are 4 periods of 3 months in a year
If he did that for just a year he'd have put on 35(4)= 140 lbs of muscle. Then he'd be 275 lbs of muscle, about 0% bodyfat.

That's about the size of Ronnie Coleman. People lift for years and don't hit 200 lbs at 7-8% bodyfat naturally, there's no way he put on 35 lbs of muscle in 3 months.. Think about it.

 

[Warboss Alex]

thats a common myth, you don't put on muscle faster when you're a beginner.

if I remember rightly I went from a touch under 180 to a touch over 220 in my first year of (serious) training. I sure as hell didn't gain that much again the next year.

 

[simba_]

35 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks..
thats 3 months.

there are 4 periods of 3 months in a year
If he did that for just a year he'd have put on 35(4)= 140 lbs of muscle. Then he'd be 275 lbs of muscle, about 0% bodyfat.

That's about the size of Ronnie Coleman. People lift for years and don't hit 200 lbs at 7-8% bodyfat naturally, there's no way he put on 35 lbs of muscle in 3 months.. Think about it.

That's why they are called newbie gains; they don't last forever.

 

[madgame]

let me tell you something about marketing & copywriting...

Im not even gonna discuss whether, its natural or if he took roids. Ill just assume he actually did it natural.

One of the main principles in copywriting (for marketing) is that people want things FAST, that's why you always read this 'in 33 days' 'in less than a week' 'instantly' ...in such advertisments. It ups sales...

So if I was a marketer trying to market such a product, Id go out and try to find the 1 in 1,000's of guys who did achieve something like that and then pay him some bucks or a low commison on each sale for being the photo on my product (or even a real partnership and a 50/50 profit split or something for making the product/writing the e-book)..

Now you might ask: how did they know he could do it? no idea, maybe he had bulked up before just lost it for it and then put it back on which is known to be easier to do then if u had never had much muscle before.

The bottom line is the guy(s) who is marketing the product is probably not anthony ellis himself (the copywriting for example was done by somebody who knows his job...). And no marketer will just choose a random guy who happens to work out but the one that he thinks will bring in the most sales, because of his incredible story....

Maybe he was on roids..maybe hes one in many thousands......but take it for granted that joe average is not going to build that much muscle in 12 weeks....

 

[dirtyvibe]

if I remember rightly I went from a touch under 180 to a touch over 220 in my first year of (serious) training. I sure as hell didn't gain that much again the next year.

you can put on 24 lbs of muscle in a year max, but that doesn't include glycogen weight, and i have no idea how much glycogen weighs, but say like 6 lbs glycogen and 5 lbs water weight, that's only about 10 lbs of fat.

the gains that newbies do get though is a better CNS
before you start lifting weights, youre only able to recruit 40-60% of your muscle fibers in a lift. after your CNS adapts, you can recruit 60-80% of your muscle fibers. thats what the huge strength gains are from, not muscles getting huge really fast. thats also why newbies do great on powerlifting programs (like 5 reps per set) that encourage the developing of the CNS to lifting heaver weights rather than higher rep programs. eventually when youre already recruiting 60-80% of your muscle fibers youre only real strength gains are going to come from hypertrophy. newbies just dont know how to use the strength they already have and their gains are actually just learning to use it

 

[Warboss Alex]

you can put on 24 lbs of muscle in a year max

well damn.. I like going against the grain.

why so precise a number, anyway?

 

[dirtyvibe]

well damn.. I like going against the grain.

why so precise a number, anyway?

I'm going by this T-Nation article:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

but I think glycogen weights a lot too, so with that and water you probably only went + 10 lbs fat or so/

Under the best possible circumstances (perfect diet, training, supplementation, and recovery strategies) the average male body can manufacture between 0.25 and 0.5 pounds of dry muscle tissue per week. That is the amount your natural body chemistry will allow you to build. So we're talking about around one or two pounds per month. It may not sound like much, but that can add up to twelve to twenty pounds over one year of training.

It says you get 4 lbs of glycogen for every 10 lbs of muscle, so if you put on 20 lbs of muscle + 8 lbs glycogen-- you can do math

 

[Warboss Alex]

one thing you'll understand once you've been at this sport long enough, numbers don't mean much. I'm not the only guy I know who's gained 40lbs in a year.. have we got good genetics? Maybe, maybe not. I firmly believe that if everything is in place (training, rest, protein intake, calories in general) you can make those sort of gains in your early years.. now if only the young guys on here would listen and not argue, they'd be a hell of a lot happier twelve months down the line

who said anything about fat? my waistline didn't change in that time

 

[dirtyvibe]

who said anything about fat? my waistline didn't change in that time

dam

give me some of what you were taking

 

[mrRuckus]

35 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks..
thats 3 months.

there are 4 periods of 3 months in a year
If he did that for just a year he'd have put on 35(4)= 140 lbs of muscle. Then he'd be 275 lbs of muscle, about 0% bodyfat.

That's about the size of Ronnie Coleman. People lift for years and don't hit 200 lbs at 7-8% bodyfat naturally, there's no way he put on 35 lbs of muscle in 3 months.. Think about it.

Look up the concept of diminishing returns.

No one said it's sustainable forever.

 

[Rata Blanca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He57dsyMy-M

 

[shagnscoob]

that guy doesn't have pants on. what the ****.


edit-- I don't know if he juiced, but I like to think he didnt.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

35 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks..
thats 3 months.

there are 4 periods of 3 months in a year
If he did that for just a year he'd have put on 35(4)= 140 lbs of muscle. Then he'd be 275 lbs of muscle, about 0% bodyfat.

That's about the size of Ronnie Coleman. People lift for years and don't hit 200 lbs at 7-8% bodyfat naturally, there's no way he put on 35 lbs of muscle in 3 months.. Think about it.

You assume that gains will remain steady.


Also, people say that there aren't such thing as "newbie gains"?



Using the reasoning of you folks, then when I lift, all my big three lifts gain at least 5lbs/week. Assuming that you're correct in your logic, my lifts would go up around 260lbs a year. I HIGHLY doubt that will happen. Your body adjusts, and it begins to become difficult to put on weight/strength. It's adaptation at it's finest.

The reason you generally gain so much in the beginning is because you're just starting to maintain a proper diet. That alone can cause a lot of benefits. Add that to serious weight training, and you're in for some solid gains.

 

[dirtyvibe]

You assume that gains will remain steady.


Also, people say that there aren't such thing as "newbie gains"?



Using the reasoning of you folks, then when I lift, all my big three lifts gain at least 5lbs/week. Assuming that you're correct in your logic, my lifts would go up around 260lbs a year. I HIGHLY doubt that will happen. Your body adjusts, and it begins to become difficult to put on weight/strength. It's adaptation at it's finest.

The reason you generally gain so much in the beginning is because you're just starting to maintain a proper diet. That alone can cause a lot of benefits. Add that to serious weight training, and you're in for some solid gains.

the strength newbie gains are from CNS improvements, not more muscle mass.
also, 4 lbs of glycogen/ 10 lbs muscle added.
alex put on 40 lbs he said. if it were all muscle, then he put on about 29 lbs of muscle and 11 lbs glycogen, thats pretty close to 24 lbs. BUT if he only put on 6-7 lbs of fat (he probably did, everyone gains fat on a bulk) then he probably wouldn't notice it and would have put on 24 lbs muscle /~8-9 lbs glycogen.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

You assume Alex did the whole "eat anything" bulk style cycle. It is very possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.


And with strength gains often times come size gains. Sure you can have one without the other, but when first starting out, it's not as likely.

 

[dirtyvibe]

1)It is very possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.


2) And with strength gains often times come size gains. Sure you can have one without the other, but when first starting out, it's not as likely.

1) That wouldn't even matter for Alex's situation b/c he put on 40 lbs, and we're talking about the content of what he put on. FYI it's nearly impossible to do that naturally.

2) Links to evidence?