Sir_Chancealot
Master Don Juan
I occassionally visit girlproblems.com, and encourage the guys there to be REAL DJs. I found a post tonight of the typical rantings about DJs and how we are scum. I'd had enough. So, I put down some thoughts, and I wanted to share them with you. Hope you enjoy.
Ok, now it's time for my 2 cents worth.
First, I've had my go arounds with New Lisa and AngelPagel. I am going to try and explain this in a very uncomplicated way. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.
I am an older guy. I have certain life experiences that the younger guys don't have. That having been said, let me explain what that site is about, and something about how men communicate.
First, about how men communicate. When a guy says a woman is being a *****, it is basically shorthand. Another guy IMMEDIATELY knows what he is talking about. If you don't think guys talk like what is posted on that site, you haven't spent much time around men.
Yes, in today's world, most women ARE mean, heartless, and conniving. That is reality. Are there exceptions? Sure are. But they are rare.
Ok, now about the advice on being a DJ. You have to understand that when a newbie comes onto that site, they are clueless, and they are pissed off. They are doubly pissed because they don't know how to correct their problem (i.e., how to attract women).
If left uncorrected, these guys will become full fledged jerks. That is the natural progression. We intercept that pendulum swing, if you will, and balance it in the middle.
Yes, we advise certain actions when dealing with women, and we advise these young 'ins to treat all women the same. We do this for two reasons. The first reason is this: You give one of these recovering "nice guys" too much leeway, and he will fall back into the habits that got him into trouble (or should be say frustration) in the first place. He needs concrete RULES. This is something a nice guy understands. You don't break the rules.
Now, the second reason for this is so that he learns that just because a woman is hot, or beautiful, or smart, or tall, or short, or big-breasted, or small-breasted, doesn't matter. BY TREATING ALL WOMEN AS THE SAME, THE DJ PRODIGY LEARNS TO TREAT EVEN THE MOST GORGEOUS WOMAN (in his eyes) AS SIMPLY A PERSON. Isn't that what most women claim that they want? Or is this another case of a woman saying one thing, and wanting another? I'll deal more with that issue later on.
After a DJ matures, he then learns the REAL art of DJing. He learns to bend the rules when he must. If he slips back into being an AFC (average frustrated chump), he knows he always has the rules to fall back on.
One of the frequent criticisms about the DJ site is this: the guys are just there to get a piece of ass. Some guys are there for that. Most of them aren't. Think about it for a minute. If all they wanted was sex, why not just go get some cheap hooker, pay her $20, and get the deed done? Less work, more time for play.
No, most come to the site because they ARE looking for a long term relationship, or LTR. I would say 99.9% of the guys on the board have heard the following phrase said too them: "You are just TOO nice". Variations include "I wish I could find someone just like you", and "I would date you, but I don't want to ruin the friendship", and the ever dreaded "Let's Just Be Friends", or LJBF. After hearing just about every woman say the "too nice" line to a young guy, he decides "Screw it! I'm tired of always coming in last! The 'nice guy' always gets (figuratively) screwed!". Thus gets born a jerk or a neophyte DJ.
Once the little lightbulb clicks on, you have to realize- HE WILL NOT GO BACK TO BEING A "NICE GUY" EVER AGAIN! His only choice (if he's never heard of the DJ principles) is to be a jerk.
Now, the DJ principles teach these young guys to be ambitious, creative, confident, exciting, mysterious, challenging, and (believe it or not) eventually respectful.
Are you women saying that you do not find those qualities attractive in a man?
They teach a young guy to not be needy, clingy, emotional sluts, disrespectful, and spineless.
And those ARE the qualities you DO NOT want men to have, right ladies?
Women read these tactics, and think that they are disrespectful, rude, and certainly no INTELLIGENT WOMAN who had her act together would "fall for" those kinds of things. But they do. In droves. Repeatedly. This is because they cannot help but be attracted to REAL MEN. And somewhere along the line of acting like real men, the young DJs BECOME real men. A woman is instinctually attracted to a man like that. Much as a man is instinctually attracted to a women who possesses his idea of feminine beauty.
One of the things that we teach budding DJs is to never listen to what a woman SAYS and to always look at her ACTIONS. This is probably the hardest thing to instill in these young DJ's heads (both of them). I will give several examples of how women do this. Before I do, please refrain from explaining how "I am different", because my last example will be the nail in the coffin of that statement. First, there is the case of how she responds when being asked out. We teach these guys how to recognize a "no" when the mouth is saying "maybe" or "I'll think about it" (which, by the way, are always "NO"), or in a myriad of other ways giving the guy false hope.
OH IN HOW LITTLE REGARD YOU WOMEN HOLD MEN!!!! You think that a little rejection would hurt them too bad, so you give them a little hope. Here's the truth. I've seen guys frustrated because they have been rejected a lot. But every guy I've seen is MUCH WORSE OFF when women are always giving him a little hope to let him down easy. But I digress. Now, to those of you women who say "I always say what I mean", I ask you this simple question. Have you ever ended an argument with "Fine", "Thats fine", or "I don't care, you do what you want"? The prosecution rests, your honor.
Guys don't come the the DJ site and say "Boy, we're gonna screw it to the girls now!" Invariably, the question is "How can I get girls to at least give me a CHANCE?"
Women, and some guys, think that the advice on that DJs give to guys won't work. I knew most of the stuff on there before I ever started posting. One thing I DIDN'T know about were neg-hits. When I first read that, I thought "No way would that ever work in a million years". But, being that I have a razor sharp wit, and a tongue that veers toward sarcasm (as many of you posters well know), I thought that this would be a natural for me. And it is. Guess what? It works. Using this technique, I can get girls who previously wouldn't even deign to give me the time of day to stop and hold a conversation with me. All with a simple sentence or two.
If you younger guys think the advice DJs give is wrong, then I would advise you this: Take all the other posters advice, then try and take the DJs advice. Compare the two, and see where you have more success.
There is one caveat: As the relationship progresses into an LTR, you have to tone down the DJ attitude. Not eliminate it, but tone it down. Even the most adament DJ recognizes this (or he SHOULD, if he is any good at all). The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Do they always work? Nope. But then what does?
Other frequent criticisms are that the DJ site is just used to get sex, or only attract psycho women. Yes, there is always that possibility, but the vast majority of these guys are looking for something more. Also, these tips WILL work on almost every woman. The smoother the DJ, the more success. The great thing is that even with a LITTLE knowledge, these guys even the playing field with the Brad Pitt look-a-likes, and the guys with lots of money.
One of the greatest things about the DJ site is something you don't see unless you are around alot. That is the new DJ come in and say "Thanks XXXXXX! Man that tip you gave me about confidence really worked! I got a date this weekend!" or "Wow, XXXXXX! I didn't think that I had the balls to ask that chick out, but I did!"
When some young guy posts "Damn! I just got shot down! I'm kinda bummed", you also miss the words of encouragement to those guys. And encouragement is something we ALL need to hear once in a while!
These guys come in here to offer words of advice, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THE STUFF WORKS! Why do you think they are always enthusiastic? Because they are usually younger, and hence less experienced, they are perplexed when they get rebuffed. This confuses them, because they have seen it in action. This leads them to be even MORE adament about it, to try and get the guys to at least TRY IT. Which culminates in some people around here calling them "cultists". Yes, that's very mature behavior.
I hear women all the time say "It's easy. All you have to do is go up and talk to the girl". When you become a DJ, yes. It is easy. Not so when you aren't. If the women reading this think that it is, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is. Put another way, I would like to "see" your actions, instead of listening to what you say. Try this little experiment. This weekend, every time you see a "hot", "gorgeous", or "hunky" guy, YOU WALK RIGHT UP TO HIM AND ASK HIM OUT. Do this 10 times. Most girls get upset if that "right" guy doesn't ask them out, never mind if they get out-right rejected by him. As men, we have to deal with this risk EVERY TIME we want to ask a girl out. And when these young DJs progress, they learn to have the attitude of "So what? She misses out on a great guy! It's her loss!". That sounds callous, cruel, jaded, and even arrogant. You women try my little experiment, and then see if your opinion doesn't change. Or are you so sure of your own opinion that you never stop to see if you are correct?
Most of the women (and to be perfectly fair, a great majority of men too) give the kind of advice to the guys that won't actually HELP them. Sure, it may be politically correct to say, and "feel good" to say it, but it won't work. A good example of this is "just be yourself". I vehemently oppose this type of logic. If being "himself" hasn't gotten him anywhere, then it's sheer lunacy to suggest "just being himself" is going to get him any better results in the future! One definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting different results. That is why I always say "improve yourself". After a guy has improved himself, then, AND ONLY THEN, is the advice justified to "just be yourself". Because, by that time, his "yourself" is a much BETTER "yourself".
That, in essence, is the heart of the DJ principles. Not getting laid. Not out-playing women. Not getting even. Not saying to hell with it. The DJ principles are about men getting what they want out of life. It's about not appologizing for who they are, and what they want. Being a DJ is about having character, dignity, respect, and honor.
If you cannot see that, then it is your loss.
NEXT!
Ok, now it's time for my 2 cents worth.
First, I've had my go arounds with New Lisa and AngelPagel. I am going to try and explain this in a very uncomplicated way. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.
I am an older guy. I have certain life experiences that the younger guys don't have. That having been said, let me explain what that site is about, and something about how men communicate.
First, about how men communicate. When a guy says a woman is being a *****, it is basically shorthand. Another guy IMMEDIATELY knows what he is talking about. If you don't think guys talk like what is posted on that site, you haven't spent much time around men.
Yes, in today's world, most women ARE mean, heartless, and conniving. That is reality. Are there exceptions? Sure are. But they are rare.
Ok, now about the advice on being a DJ. You have to understand that when a newbie comes onto that site, they are clueless, and they are pissed off. They are doubly pissed because they don't know how to correct their problem (i.e., how to attract women).
If left uncorrected, these guys will become full fledged jerks. That is the natural progression. We intercept that pendulum swing, if you will, and balance it in the middle.
Yes, we advise certain actions when dealing with women, and we advise these young 'ins to treat all women the same. We do this for two reasons. The first reason is this: You give one of these recovering "nice guys" too much leeway, and he will fall back into the habits that got him into trouble (or should be say frustration) in the first place. He needs concrete RULES. This is something a nice guy understands. You don't break the rules.
Now, the second reason for this is so that he learns that just because a woman is hot, or beautiful, or smart, or tall, or short, or big-breasted, or small-breasted, doesn't matter. BY TREATING ALL WOMEN AS THE SAME, THE DJ PRODIGY LEARNS TO TREAT EVEN THE MOST GORGEOUS WOMAN (in his eyes) AS SIMPLY A PERSON. Isn't that what most women claim that they want? Or is this another case of a woman saying one thing, and wanting another? I'll deal more with that issue later on.
After a DJ matures, he then learns the REAL art of DJing. He learns to bend the rules when he must. If he slips back into being an AFC (average frustrated chump), he knows he always has the rules to fall back on.
One of the frequent criticisms about the DJ site is this: the guys are just there to get a piece of ass. Some guys are there for that. Most of them aren't. Think about it for a minute. If all they wanted was sex, why not just go get some cheap hooker, pay her $20, and get the deed done? Less work, more time for play.
No, most come to the site because they ARE looking for a long term relationship, or LTR. I would say 99.9% of the guys on the board have heard the following phrase said too them: "You are just TOO nice". Variations include "I wish I could find someone just like you", and "I would date you, but I don't want to ruin the friendship", and the ever dreaded "Let's Just Be Friends", or LJBF. After hearing just about every woman say the "too nice" line to a young guy, he decides "Screw it! I'm tired of always coming in last! The 'nice guy' always gets (figuratively) screwed!". Thus gets born a jerk or a neophyte DJ.
Once the little lightbulb clicks on, you have to realize- HE WILL NOT GO BACK TO BEING A "NICE GUY" EVER AGAIN! His only choice (if he's never heard of the DJ principles) is to be a jerk.
Now, the DJ principles teach these young guys to be ambitious, creative, confident, exciting, mysterious, challenging, and (believe it or not) eventually respectful.
Are you women saying that you do not find those qualities attractive in a man?
They teach a young guy to not be needy, clingy, emotional sluts, disrespectful, and spineless.
And those ARE the qualities you DO NOT want men to have, right ladies?
Women read these tactics, and think that they are disrespectful, rude, and certainly no INTELLIGENT WOMAN who had her act together would "fall for" those kinds of things. But they do. In droves. Repeatedly. This is because they cannot help but be attracted to REAL MEN. And somewhere along the line of acting like real men, the young DJs BECOME real men. A woman is instinctually attracted to a man like that. Much as a man is instinctually attracted to a women who possesses his idea of feminine beauty.
One of the things that we teach budding DJs is to never listen to what a woman SAYS and to always look at her ACTIONS. This is probably the hardest thing to instill in these young DJ's heads (both of them). I will give several examples of how women do this. Before I do, please refrain from explaining how "I am different", because my last example will be the nail in the coffin of that statement. First, there is the case of how she responds when being asked out. We teach these guys how to recognize a "no" when the mouth is saying "maybe" or "I'll think about it" (which, by the way, are always "NO"), or in a myriad of other ways giving the guy false hope.
OH IN HOW LITTLE REGARD YOU WOMEN HOLD MEN!!!! You think that a little rejection would hurt them too bad, so you give them a little hope. Here's the truth. I've seen guys frustrated because they have been rejected a lot. But every guy I've seen is MUCH WORSE OFF when women are always giving him a little hope to let him down easy. But I digress. Now, to those of you women who say "I always say what I mean", I ask you this simple question. Have you ever ended an argument with "Fine", "Thats fine", or "I don't care, you do what you want"? The prosecution rests, your honor.
Guys don't come the the DJ site and say "Boy, we're gonna screw it to the girls now!" Invariably, the question is "How can I get girls to at least give me a CHANCE?"
Women, and some guys, think that the advice on that DJs give to guys won't work. I knew most of the stuff on there before I ever started posting. One thing I DIDN'T know about were neg-hits. When I first read that, I thought "No way would that ever work in a million years". But, being that I have a razor sharp wit, and a tongue that veers toward sarcasm (as many of you posters well know), I thought that this would be a natural for me. And it is. Guess what? It works. Using this technique, I can get girls who previously wouldn't even deign to give me the time of day to stop and hold a conversation with me. All with a simple sentence or two.
If you younger guys think the advice DJs give is wrong, then I would advise you this: Take all the other posters advice, then try and take the DJs advice. Compare the two, and see where you have more success.
There is one caveat: As the relationship progresses into an LTR, you have to tone down the DJ attitude. Not eliminate it, but tone it down. Even the most adament DJ recognizes this (or he SHOULD, if he is any good at all). The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Do they always work? Nope. But then what does?
Other frequent criticisms are that the DJ site is just used to get sex, or only attract psycho women. Yes, there is always that possibility, but the vast majority of these guys are looking for something more. Also, these tips WILL work on almost every woman. The smoother the DJ, the more success. The great thing is that even with a LITTLE knowledge, these guys even the playing field with the Brad Pitt look-a-likes, and the guys with lots of money.
One of the greatest things about the DJ site is something you don't see unless you are around alot. That is the new DJ come in and say "Thanks XXXXXX! Man that tip you gave me about confidence really worked! I got a date this weekend!" or "Wow, XXXXXX! I didn't think that I had the balls to ask that chick out, but I did!"
When some young guy posts "Damn! I just got shot down! I'm kinda bummed", you also miss the words of encouragement to those guys. And encouragement is something we ALL need to hear once in a while!
These guys come in here to offer words of advice, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THE STUFF WORKS! Why do you think they are always enthusiastic? Because they are usually younger, and hence less experienced, they are perplexed when they get rebuffed. This confuses them, because they have seen it in action. This leads them to be even MORE adament about it, to try and get the guys to at least TRY IT. Which culminates in some people around here calling them "cultists". Yes, that's very mature behavior.
I hear women all the time say "It's easy. All you have to do is go up and talk to the girl". When you become a DJ, yes. It is easy. Not so when you aren't. If the women reading this think that it is, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is. Put another way, I would like to "see" your actions, instead of listening to what you say. Try this little experiment. This weekend, every time you see a "hot", "gorgeous", or "hunky" guy, YOU WALK RIGHT UP TO HIM AND ASK HIM OUT. Do this 10 times. Most girls get upset if that "right" guy doesn't ask them out, never mind if they get out-right rejected by him. As men, we have to deal with this risk EVERY TIME we want to ask a girl out. And when these young DJs progress, they learn to have the attitude of "So what? She misses out on a great guy! It's her loss!". That sounds callous, cruel, jaded, and even arrogant. You women try my little experiment, and then see if your opinion doesn't change. Or are you so sure of your own opinion that you never stop to see if you are correct?
Most of the women (and to be perfectly fair, a great majority of men too) give the kind of advice to the guys that won't actually HELP them. Sure, it may be politically correct to say, and "feel good" to say it, but it won't work. A good example of this is "just be yourself". I vehemently oppose this type of logic. If being "himself" hasn't gotten him anywhere, then it's sheer lunacy to suggest "just being himself" is going to get him any better results in the future! One definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting different results. That is why I always say "improve yourself". After a guy has improved himself, then, AND ONLY THEN, is the advice justified to "just be yourself". Because, by that time, his "yourself" is a much BETTER "yourself".
That, in essence, is the heart of the DJ principles. Not getting laid. Not out-playing women. Not getting even. Not saying to hell with it. The DJ principles are about men getting what they want out of life. It's about not appologizing for who they are, and what they want. Being a DJ is about having character, dignity, respect, and honor.
If you cannot see that, then it is your loss.
NEXT!
