An Important Part of a LTR: Friendship

[Atratus]

VeryBadGirl, that list clears things up for me. I guess the only difference is that i'd add another point 11) make sure the above points are valid. Why? Mostly because things change, and especially as you grow really old, but hopefully sooner, you'll make do with alot less requirements, (if i may call them so). And they're excellent things to look for, btw. You put it quite nicely, vbg.

Maximus! The points i made were a bit rough, but you put in all the necessary nuances. Mucho thanks for the input.
You're right - just because the ideal you strive for is very unlikely to be fully achieved, doesn't mean the relationship is worthless. Okay, now that i've hit myself on my nose for saying that...
Far from it, in fact. It's worth something if it keeps changing, or improving if you will, though IMO the process of change itself is enough. Wether it's good or bad change is up to you to determine.
That's why i add my point to the list - to try and be aware that the changes i and my partners go through, and what they imply for eachother and to the relationship.

Listening to myself here, i'm beginning to get the idea that the ideals i strive for include understanding and appreciating every developing situation, every process of change i come across.

And the attitude that goes well with this sort of thinking you've described perfectly. Work with assumptions, or perhaps one can also say belief, or faith or trust. But don't expect anything so much so as to delude yourself. After that, we find that how natural the flow of things are, if you can feel my meaning. The effort you put into it is no longer a strain but a relief.

For example you're surprised it becomes a relief even to feel bad, because you finally accept that if you feel bad, you SHOULD feel bad and there's apparently ample reason to feel bad. A depressed person often thinks all the good times are past and that things will never improve. Once you realize the process is about change, the bad state you begin with becomes equally valuable and meaningful as the good state you end up in, and you won't take either for granted.

Anyway, that was a Great Post Max.

Persian chick?! I'm Persian too! What's her number?

But really, what's she like Dorian? I'm kinda wondering what kind impression you got from her, what you can say (or grossly generalize) about "Persians"?

 

[Intruder]

I agree with alot of what was said, but there are alot of other things that can wreck that "perfect" relationship. I am 30, no kids and getting divorced from someone who "was" perfect.

Things change, my father died withen the last 4 months at the end of a 15 month long horrible battle with massive strokes, diabetes, liver failure. I spent alot of time with him...that stressed things.

My wife was a overacheiver as a teacher, work during the day, Masters classes at night, in order to get a dual Masters.....money and lack of time stressed things out.

I changed during my last year in the Marines, I was in a few "fire fights" which changed me and not for the better.

I guess my point is even relationships that appear perfect has a chance at getting spoiled, never get into that comfort zone.

I am not saying anyone is wrong just passing off my experiences.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Intruder:
I agree with alot of what was said, but there are alot of other things that can wreck that "perfect" relationship. I am 30, no kids and getting divorced from someone who "was" perfect.

Things change, my father died withen the last 4 months at the end of a 15 month long horrible battle with massive strokes, diabetes, liver failure. I spent alot of time with him...that stressed things.

My wife was a overacheiver as a teacher, work during the day, Masters classes at night, in order to get a dual Masters.....money and lack of time stressed things out.

I changed during my last year in the Marines, I was in a few "fire fights" which changed me and not for the better.

I guess my point is even relationships that appear perfect has a chance at getting spoiled, never get into that comfort zone.

I am not saying anyone is wrong just passing off my experiences.

Intruder, in your case either one or both of you just didn't have the commitment to the relationship to weather the tough times. Without that commitment, yes, even a great relationship will fall apart under too much outside stress and influences.

 

[THIAGO BRAZIL]

Originally posted by VeryBadGirl:

Atratus, I don't know if I am following your line of reasoning correctly. Perhaps since it seems that what you are talking about is not something that I have experienced in my life, and hence difficult to relate to. But, the saying "different strokes for different folks" probably applies well here.

But, you asked what makes a good relationship, which is something that I have answered for myself, through my experiences. It may not apply to all, but I'll post it here anyway. Happiness is #1, of course.

1) You are happy more than you are sad, angry or hurt.

2) You have the amount of intimacy you need. You both must satisfy each other sexually plus have the right amount of tenderness, affection and warmth that you desire.

3) You are able to talk to each other - about mundane things but also your problems. You can both express to each other how you feel. Plus you listen to each other and try to understand what/how the other person is feeling.

4) You are intellectually stimulating to each other. You have interesting conversations and/or debates.

5) You have FUN together. Laughing is essential.

6) You have common goals and desires for the future and you work together to achieve these goals.

7) You both recognize that you both make mistakes and are willing to admit to them, forgive and move on.

8) You recognize that your partner has flaws and you are willing to tolerate those flaws.

9) You trust each other. You have confidence that you can depend on each other no matter what.

10) You respect each other. You are willing to see the other person as a separate individual with rights/desires/needs/wants.

All of these contribute to the friendship which I spoke of in my first post.

To answer your question, studmuffin, there are a few things that could happen at the end of a relationship that would prohibit the friendship from going on:

a) while falling out of love, you also lost part of your friendship.
b) the friendship and the romance were so entangled (as they should be) that it is hard to separate the two.
c) the need to move on and get over someone necessitates distance and no contact. It is hard to keep a friendship going when you don't talk.
d) also, if there is still romantic or sexual feelings there, it is not going to be a real friendship.

But, in some situations, a friendship can continue after a period of time or in certain situations.


[This message has been edited by VeryBadGirl (edited 05-24-2002).]

 

[TKDude]

Some good points. Eventually you reach a "comfortable" stage. Not that means that you can let your guard down.

But your examples seem to imply a couple (Not married) that live together. I think I know what you mean that once you reach that stage, you sort of appreciate just being near each other and dont need to always communicate, or whatever.

I don't know, but I sort of like dating and picking up someone. I don't look at it as a necessary stage to the ultimate goal of lounging around in my sweats with the little woman.

It seems that your specific examples are directed towards cohabitating couples.

I am not disagreeing with you. But there must be some other examples other than the typical domestic ones.