Americans who hate America

[Stagger Lee]

Hundreds of years of racism and legal discrimination cause poverty and a poor social climate. Talk to some Native Americans and see what reservation life is like. Better yet go visit one.

50 years of reform will not totally reverse the poverty and its effects on a community. However reform has increased the middle-class for minority groups. Takes time.

It's ignorant and mentally lazy to ignore the effects that centuries of legalized government bigotry will have on different groups of people. If genetics were ever the main determinant, the minority educational attainment rate and middle class would have not increased the way it has.

The info you continually reference places Jews and Asians above everyone, yet we dont see Jews and Asians on the internet gathering to discuss this stuff with one another. They dont try to divide in that manner, nor have a history of trying to use science to labels races as superior or inferior to one another.



One cannot ignore the historical (or modern) link such beliefs have to eugenics and white supremacy. Its not like any of these ideas are new...they are simply repackaged for the present-day. Its the same sh!t people used to excuse slavery and Jim Crow in the past, and the same sh!t many racists today use to advocate segregation, deportation, or the the case of European neo-Nazis, they'll advocate outright violence and murder (and theyve done it too)

So aside from the intellectually lazy arguments that ignore the past and present sociological factors at play, theres plenty reason why many scholars dont buy the race and genetics arguments made by the usual bunch.

See this above anti-white narrative is exactly what I reject. What whites oppressed sub Saharans for the over 100,000 years they lived there among each other and never advanced one bit? What whites kept the Amerindians who migrated to the Americas and had TWO resources rich continents, while they did have a few civilizations, stuck in the stone age and performing human sacrifices until Spaniards arrived around 1500? Why did Haiti the pearl of the Caribbean become a hell hole after all the whites were genocide? Look what happened in Rhodesia and South Africa, or pick a US city like Detroit.

Your meme that whites and only whites are responsible for any and every problem in the world and that every other race is so benevolent to others is the big racist lie.

Stagger, like poon said, just admit you feel race makes someone superior or inferior to someone else. Its obvious these are your views. Again I say, why is it that some white men are so obsessed with this argument?


All in all, believe what you want. I simply think it very telling that most non-whites, regardless of race, dont sit around thinking about this the why I see white men only constantly do it.

What I believe is that when you claim group A and group B have different outcomes and you blame group A and want to take from group A, you better have irrefutable and scientific proof which you do not. The burden is on you to prove it. And when someone challenges your shaky claims, you can't just cry racist because you want to silence opposition and protect your flimsy claims and take things.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Humans don't have "subspecies". All humans are the same species.

Because its PC to say so. By the same scientific criteria applied to every other living thing, humans compose different subspecies if not species. It really doesn't matter too much, you can call them ethnics, races or whatever.

A combination of environmental and situational factors. As history has proven.

Where do environment and situational factors or history originate from? To a large degree on heritable traits and tendencies.

This is not about what "I think" this is about reality. The real reason behind things. Stick to facts and leave your opinions out.



So I have to school you on American history now? :crackup:

You're just spouting your opinion. I know American history. I don't need your version of it.

The very attitudes on this thread are still part of the marginalization of blacks in the U.S. Then you add bad education and a culture that is based around poverty and it makes the situation worse. Obviously. Some rise above this and many don't.

I'd argue the problem is the marginalization and blaming of males and whites (racism and sexism) is the problem.

While genetics do influence behavior.. the science is still out on to what degree in humans. In addition, the variety of behaviors within the SAME RACE of people damages the argument that race is the reason behind behavior and not some other genetic factor.

The science is certainly still out on whites and males are the reason for every other groups' problems real or imagined. Yet policy proceeds as if it is scientific and irrefutable fact and doesn't even allow science to challenge it.

You are committing the continuum fallacy. Because there is variety and blending doesn't mean we can't identify two distinct things. Deserts blend into grasslands, and sometimes you'll find an oasis in a desert or a drier sandy spot in a grassland. But we still have identifiable deserts and grass lands.

IQ testing is not an exact science to begin with and many in the scientific community doubt its accuracy.

The main reason being... there are different types of "intelligent". For instance.. a person can be a brilliant writer and a horrible rocket scientist. At the same time.. the man who is an amazing rocket scientist can be a horrible doctor. So if the brillant writer scores low on an IQ test.. is he now a moron? If the rocket scientist is terrible at writing (and many engineers and architects are) then is he now a moron?

That fact that many on this thread fail to grasp the complexity of the subject makes me doubt both their education AND intelligence. Ironically :crackup:

You are misconstruing/misunderstanding intelligence testing. The tests measure one's ability to learn and think. So with your example of a rocket scientist and a brilliant writer, the testing would find that both would likely have an IQ ~125 and above, while someone with an IQ below that or say 95 would very unlikely be either a brilliant writer or a rocket scientist.

Nope. I'm just saying racial groups are too complex to have such black and white thinking about them (AKA racism). Most people desire simplistic answers to everything.. and when they don't get them.. they fill in the gaps with their own assumptions and personal experiences. That's fine.. but leave science out of it.

If you believe that, then stop simplistically claiming one racial group is responsible for the outcome of another racial group.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Yep according to a liberal like Jaylan these guys http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/5-players-who-helped-their-stock-most-at-the-nfl-combine/ar-BBhTwzP#page=5 will excel in the NFL because you white people kept them poor. Nevermind that there is almost twice as many poor white people as there are blacks.

These guys have no genetic related physical advantage relevant to playing in the NFL and have the same IQ and intelligence as anyone else such as an Asian or white. Yet they entered college and pursued the very long shot odds of making it in the NFL to be rich instead of poor, instead of a much more sure thing of becoming an engineering or computer programmer.

You see, whites despite still being 5x more numerous are just not risk takers and don't shoot for the stars, or even if they did pursue being in the NFL they just don't work as hard because they're already all rich :crazy:! Or maybe white football players were discriminated against. Discrimination explains EVERYTHING.

 

[Poon King]

Because its PC to say so. By the same scientific criteria applied to every other living thing, humans compose different subspecies if not species. It really doesn't matter too much, you can call them ethnics, races or whatever.

Its "PC" only because it goes against a belief (belief not fact) that you have. You are not the authority on whether humans have subspecies or not. The scientific community is the authority.

Like I said.. if you want to be racist.. be racist. But don't use wacky bullsh!t science as support.

Where do environment and situational factors or history originate from? To a large degree on heritable traits and tendencies.

Wrong. Environment consists of all the things outside a person. Location, food available, living conditions, altitude, animal predictors, etc.

You're just spouting your opinion. I know American history. I don't need your version of it.

Funny you say that since all you've posted so far is opinion. No facts.

I'd argue the problem is the marginalization and blaming of males and whites (racism and sexism) is the problem.

I find it odd you believe every group of people on earth play a part in the worlds problems except white males. :crackup:

The science is certainly still out on whites and males are the reason for every other groups' problems real or imagined. Yet policy proceeds as if it is scientific and irrefutable fact and doesn't even allow science to challenge it.

Not really.

You are committing the continuum fallacy. Because there is variety and blending doesn't mean we can't identify two distinct things. Deserts blend into grasslands, and sometimes you'll find an oasis in a desert or a drier sandy spot in a grassland. But we still have identifiable deserts and grass lands.

No one said we don't have identifiable races. My argument is there is no scientific proof that race is the reason for different behaviors compared to other genetic traits. As race is not the reason for brown eyes. You find brown eyes in all races. If a person has brown eyes.. its not BECAUSE of their race.. it is because of a particular genetic trait that has nothing to do with their race. Which is why blue eyes occasionally show up on non-whites.. while its rare.

Still eye color is a MORE predictable trait than intelligence and even that trait is not linked to race specifically.

Odd this confuses you.

You are misconstruing/misunderstanding intelligence testing. The tests measure one's ability to learn and think. So with your example of a rocket scientist and a brilliant writer, the testing would find that both would likely have an IQ ~125 and above, while someone with an IQ below that or say 95 would very unlikely be either a brilliant writer or a rocket scientist.

Then why do many in the scientific community question the validity of IQ testing?

I for one know its much easier to learn something I care about learning verse something I don't give a sh!t about. Since you can't measure desire to learn.. you can't always accurately measure ability.

If you believe that, then stop simplistically claiming one racial group is responsible for the outcome of another racial group.

Who is responsible for black slaves in America?

 

[( . )( . )]

Like I said.. if you want to be racist.. be racist. But don't use wacky bullsh!t science as support.

Science be rayciss yo !

 

[Poon King]

Science be rayciss yo !

Science is reality.

Making sh!t up and calling it "science" so you can justify racism is racist.

 

[Stagger Lee]

It's pointless to continue to respond to your opinions and logical fallacy. But here we have an example of the heart of the matter, your simplistic blame whites mentality:

Who is responsible for black slaves in America?

Which 150 years later is irrelevant. First you realize that 1/2 to 2/3 of whites served for many years as indentured servants in America to pay for their passage or were even kidnapped into it. It was a black man that refused to release his black servant that started slavery. And 96% of slaves went to the caribbean and S. America. Many factors were at play, black enslavers in Africa selling and enslaving blacks, a different era where everything required manual labor and there was a larger distinction between classes, a dismal and poor African continent that influenced thinking its people aren't equals, rich white and jewish slave traders selling slaves to wealthy people. So several things were responsible.

You put all the blame on an entire race when only 6% of the population 150 years ago ever owned slaves. The vast majority of white's ancestry had no connection to it. 150 years ago is irrelevant as is even 50 years ago. 150, hell little over 50 years ago my ancestors/relatives were poor doing back breaking and dangerous work maybe indentured servants. Today, we're burden with feminism, diversity/multiculturalism, affirmative action and other racist/liberal schemes.

It's okay for you to blame whites, but it's racist to point out blacks have themselves to blame :crazy: .

 

[Poon King]

It's pointless to continue to respond to your opinions and logical fallacy. But here we have an example of the heart of the matter, your simplistic blame whites mentality:



Which 150 years later is irrelevant. First you realize that 1/2 to 2/3 of whites served for many years as indentured servants in America to pay for their passage or were even kidnapped into it. It was a black man that refused to release his black servant that started slavery. And 96% of slaves went to the caribbean and S. America. Many factors were at play, black enslavers in Africa selling and enslaving blacks, a different era where everything required manual labor and there was a larger distinction between classes, a dismal and poor African continent that influenced thinking its people aren't equals, rich white and jewish slave traders selling slaves to wealthy people. So several things were responsible.

You put all the blame on an entire race when only 6% of the population 150 years ago ever owned slaves. The vast majority of white's ancestry had no connection to it. 150 years ago is irrelevant as is even 50 years ago. 150, hell little over 50 years ago my ancestors/relatives were poor doing back breaking and dangerous work maybe indentured servants. Today, we're burden with feminism, diversity/multiculturalism, affirmative action and other racist/liberal schemes.

It's okay for you to blame whites, but it's racist to point out blacks have themselves to blame :crazy: .

I live in reality and I blame whoever is at fault. You are the one obsessing over race and having the mindset that all people of the same race are carbon copies.

Of course I don't blame whites for all the problems in the world. That would be ignorant. But blaming whites for NOTHING is equally ignorant. You can't seem to grasp that everyone plays a part in the worlds problems.. past, resent and future.

You are hung up on race because you engage in weak thinking. Racism is a dead-end. It isn't an "answer" to anything, either personally or on a national level.

 

[Stagger Lee]

No, every single black person I ever listen to and liberals do the exact same thing neo-Nazis, stormfronters and skin heads do who are supposed to be the worst thing you can be. The latter blames every thing on the Jews and your kind blames everything on whites. Regardless of how right or wrong either groups is, you're no different. Just admit you're racist and deny science that undermines your position.

 

[Poon King]

No, every single black person I ever listen to and liberals do the exact same thing neo-Nazis, stormfronters and skin heads do who are supposed to be the worst thing you can be. The latter blames every thing on the Jews and your kind blames everything on whites. Regardless of how right or wrong either groups is, you're no different. Just admit you're racist and deny science that undermines your position.

WTF? :crackup:

I don't blame "everything" on any group because I'm not racist moron.

What I said is 100% of the groups of people on earth play a part in the worlds problems... past, present and future. If that statement confuses you then being racist is the least of your problems.

You seem to believe all groups deserve blame EXCEPT white people. Which is historically and factually inaccurate and makes you look like a buffoon.

 

[Stagger Lee]

WTF? :crackup:

I don't blame "everything" on any group because I'm not racist moron.

What I said is 100% of the groups of people on earth play a part in the worlds problems... past, present and future. If that statement confuses you then being racist is the least of your problems.

You seem to believe all groups deserve blame EXCEPT white people. Which is historically and factually inaccurate and makes you look like a buffoon.

Don't play dumb. When I claimed that crime rates, poverty and achievement were based on IQ, intelligence and behavior which is largely inheritable, you deny it and call it 'racism'. You argue poverty, crime rates and achievement are determined by white racism. I blame white people for all sorts things, for example trying to hold each other down. You haven't placed any blame on anyone not white. You're no different from what you accuse others of being.

 

[Poon King]

Don't play dumb. When I claimed that crime rates, poverty and achievement were based on IQ, intelligence and behavior which is largely inheritable, you deny it and call it 'racism'. You argue poverty, crime rates and achievement are determined by white racism. I blame white people for all sorts things, for example trying to hold each other down. You haven't placed any blame on anyone not white. You're no different from what you accuse others of being.

Are you retarded? When I say ALL GROUPS play a part in the worlds problems.. doesn't that mean I am blaming groups outside of just white people? :crackup:

The bottom line is you're not very knowledgeable about this subject at all. You just have racist beliefs and look to validate them anywhere you can.

While IQ plays a factor in crime, poverty and achievement... it is not the only factor or even the largest factor. There have been highly intelligent criminals. There are also people with low IQ's who don't engage in crime. Regarding achievement.. all careers don't require high IQ's to be successful.

Your lack of ability to grasp the complexity of this subject, as well as your overall lack of knowledge of the subject is proof you care little about the reality and more about your own ego and the emotional validation of thinking you are inherently superior because the two people that porked each other to create you happened to be white.

You are desperate to prove a scientific inaccuracy. Why so desperate? Sounds like some kind of emotional investment.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Are you retarded? When I say ALL GROUPS play a part in the worlds problems.. doesn't that mean I am blaming groups outside of just white people? :crackup:

Yeah I'm retarded dur. You SAY you blame all groups, but nothing you've posted in this thread demonstrates blaming the black group for their problems or problems they cause other groups. You've been fighting that argument tooth and nail.

The bottom line is you're not very knowledgeable about this subject at all. You just have racist beliefs and look to validate them anywhere you can.

While IQ plays a factor in crime, poverty and achievement... it is not the only factor or even the largest factor. There have been highly intelligent criminals. There are also people with low IQ's who don't engage in crime. Regarding achievement.. all careers don't require high IQ's to be successful.

Your lack of ability to grasp the complexity of this subject, as well as your overall lack of knowledge of the subject is proof you care little about the reality and more about your own ego and the emotional validation of thinking you are inherently superior because the two people that porked each other to create you happened to be white.

You are desperate to prove a scientific inaccuracy. Why so desperate? Sounds like some kind of emotional investment.

See when you makes statement like that, " IQ is not the only factor or even the largest factor in crime, poverty and achievement" it show that you don't understand or grasp the subject matter. I never said a group's IQ was the only or even largest factor. I'm saying it is one large factor scientifically measured and valid of several factors of heritable group differences. You can't discuss groups by pulling out individual exceptions.

 

[Poon King]

Yeah I'm retarded dur. You SAY you blame all groups, but nothing you've posted in this thread demonstrates blaming the black group for their problems or problems they cause other groups. You've been fighting that argument tooth and nail.

You just don't get it (and maybe you never will). If all groups cause problems.. then what does their race have to do with it?

If we are saying white people enslaved Africans BECAUSE white people are white.. then we sound stupid. And if we are saying black people cause a lot of crimes BECAUSE black people are black.. then we still sound stupid. You can't grasp the fact that people being a certain race is not the reason behind the problems they cause.

Did the Wright Brothers invent the first Airplane because they were white? No. Was Bin Laden a terrorist because he was Arab? No. Did Yao Ming play Basket Ball because he was Asian? No. Does Japan have the highest suicide rape because Japanese people are Japanese? No.

Again.. with so many factors at play.. your choice to single out RACE as the most important factor is what makes you look stupid and racist.

With people of the same race having so much genetic diversity.. race is no bigger a factor than height or weight in predicting behavior. Culture is a bigger factor. Being tall doesn't cause a culture to develop a certain way any more than being Indian causes a culture to develop a certain way.

I feel like I'm talking to a child.

See when you makes statement like that, " IQ is not the only factor or even the largest factor in crime, poverty and achievement" it show that you don't understand or grasp the subject matter. I never said a group's IQ was the only or even largest factor. I'm saying it is one large factor scientifically measured and valid of several factors of heritable group differences. You can't discuss groups by pulling out individual exceptions.

What do YOU think is the biggest factor in determining the likelihood of someone to engage in crime?

 

[Stagger Lee]

You just don't get it (and maybe you never will). If all groups cause problems.. then what does their race have to do with it?

Not all groups cause the same rate or types of problems.

If we are saying white people enslaved Africans BECAUSE white people are white.. then we sound stupid. And if we are saying black people cause a lot of crimes BECAUSE black people are black.. then we still sound stupid. You can't grasp the fact that people being a certain race is not the reason behind the problems they cause.

I never said anyone did x,y and z only because they're of race a,b and c. What I'm saying is if group a statistically does more x,y,z then that's a tendency and responsibility of group a.

Did the Wright Brothers invent the first Airplane because they were white? No. Was Bin Laden a terrorist because he was Arab? No. Did Yao Ming play Basket Ball because he was Asian? No. Does Japan have the highest suicide rape because Japanese people are Japanese? No.

Again, you are continuing to misunderstand/misconstrue the argument. But being white has a big part to do with being inventive, most inventions were by whites. Being Arab does have a lot to do with being a terrorist. And suicide does have a lot to do with being Japanese (culture, work ethic, honor). The argument isn't that it's necessarily the only factor or always the most important factor, but it is a fundamental factor that can explain different outcomes, and that is not even acknowledge any longer socio-politically.

Again.. with so many factors at play.. your choice to single out RACE as the most important factor is what makes you look stupid and racist.

No what's stupid and racist is how liberals claim there's different racial outcomes then blame all the factors on whites even if they're living on another continent.

With people of the same race having so much genetic diversity.. race is no bigger a factor than height or weight in predicting behavior. Culture is a bigger factor. Being tall doesn't cause a culture to develop a certain way any more than being Indian causes a culture to develop a certain way.

I feel like I'm talking to a child.

Members of a race are much more genetically closer to each other than they are another race. That's what makes them an identifiable race. The fallacy is believing people who are genetically different are only physically different and not mentally different. Again, where do you think culture originates from in the first place?

What do YOU think is the biggest factor in determining the likelihood of someone to engage in crime?

This is a perfect example of you misunderstanding the whole argument. The point isn't any one individual's behavior, but group behavior. But to answer your question the biggest factor in determining the likelihood someone to engage in crime (or to be poor) is personality and behavior traits which are largely genetic/heritable.

 

[Poon King]

Not all groups cause the same rate or types of problems.

True.. but there are more groups than just races. There are age groups, socio-economic groups, political groups, cultural groups, etc.

What makes racial groups so important to you compared to others?

I never said anyone did x,y and z only because they're of race a,b and c. What I'm saying is if group a statistically does more x,y,z then that's a tendency and responsibility of group a.

You just contradicted yourself and you don't even realize it. :crackup:

If not BECAUSE of their race.. then because of what? Maybe that is the factor you should be more focused on genius.

Again, you are continuing to misunderstand/misconstrue the argument. But being white has a big part to do with being inventive, most inventions were by whites. Being Arab does have a lot to do with being a terrorist. And suicide does have a lot to do with being Japanese (culture, work ethic, honor). The argument isn't that it's necessarily the only factor or always the most important factor, but it is a fundamental factor that can explain different outcomes, and that is not even acknowledge any longer socio-politically.

Being white has as much to do with being inventive as being white has to do with being fat. There are more fat white people than white inventors. There are also more poor white people than white inventors. There are more Arabs that are NOT terrorists than Arabs who are. There are more Japanese people who DON'T commit suicide than ones who do.

No what's stupid and racist is how liberals claim there's different racial outcomes then blame all the factors on whites even if they're living on another continent.

Political parties are stupid to begin with. So bringing politics into a discussion that has nothing to do with politics just makes you look brainwashed.

Members of a race are much more genetically closer to each other than they are another race.

Wrong. And that's a fact.

Maybe you should do real research before making claims.

That's what makes them an identifiable race. The fallacy is believing people who are genetically different are only physically different and not mentally different. Again, where do you think culture originates from in the first place?

Physical differences between races are not that dramatic to begin with. What makes differences within the same race LESS significant than differences between two races?

For instance a Redhead and an Italian. I think I asked this question a while back and you never answered it (conveniently).

This is a perfect example of you misunderstanding the whole argument. The point isn't any one individual's behavior, but group behavior. But to answer your question the biggest factor in determining the likelihood someone to engage in crime (or to be poor) is personality and behavior traits which are largely genetic/heritable.

Wrong again. And more proof you know little of the subject. You might be an expert on your opinion.. but when it comes to science you don't know sh!t about sh!t. Even REAL doctors and scientist haven't totally figured out the human brain and human behavior.. yet.. YOU.. some random schmuck on the Internet somehow cracked the code. :crackup:

Get an education before you continue this discussion. And if you REALLY want to gain REAL knowledge about the subject.. watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esPRsT-lmw8


In this video you will learn crime has little to do with IQ among other things.

If you don't watch the video.. it just proves you have little interest in reality (and this subject) and more interest in simply supporting racist beliefs you already have.

Kids.. learn not to argue about topics you know little about.

 

[Stagger Lee]

You continue to not understand the most basic concepts of statistics such as probability and rate. You continue to focus on and compare individuals with in a group when discussing difference between groups. You bring up totally unrelated physical measures that are irrelevant to mental performance measures and achievement. I don't know anyone could muck up concepts as bad as you have.