Am I being anal?

[Die Hard]

There's this girl I met at the gym. She was showing lots of interest. We talked about some party that was coming up last weekend and it turned out we would both be going there.

We had lots of chemistry going on in the gym, were talking for about 15 minutes, lots of kino going on, she was asking lots of personal questions, constantly playing with her hair, touching herself, smiling at me and remaining eye contact for long periods of time during conversation. The chemistry was very high, so high I would've kissed her on the spot if there was no one around (seemed kinda weird to start kissing in the middle of the gym, lol). So we said goodbye, kissed on the cheeks, then as she was walking away she kept locking her eyes to mine and said: "I'll see you at the party!".

Cat in the bag...

So when I arrived at the party, I took a look around but didn't see her yet. Later on, I could discern her among the crowd on the dancefloor... She was dancing with some guy, not grinding or touching each other, but they were clearly liking each other, the way they were smiling at looking at each other. I decided to play it cool, positioned myself not too far away from her, so I was sure that she would notice me at some point. My plan was to wait for her to leave him and come to me... I wasn't gonna approach her and try to win her attention, fvck that sh!t...

So, in the meantime, I just did my own thing, walked around and danced with my friends, had lots of fun. The place wasn't that big, you can see everyone who's inside, if you take a look around you. She was dancing and talking with that other dude for a long time but at some point they broke up and she was standing/dancing with some other girls from that moment on. I had been neglecting her from the moment I saw her and kept doing so when she was with those other girls. Why? Coz my friend told me he had seen her looking at me several times, as she was interacting with the dude, as well as when she was with the girls.

Look, we agreed to meet up there and she was very enthusiastic about it... Then when I arrive, she decided to keep talking and dancing with that dude, instead of actually "meeting up" with me. She knew I was there but consciously decided to stay with him. At one point, their dancing actually did become quite physical, and I'm sure she was aware of me being able to see it...

That made me lose my interest in her. I had initiaally been looking forward to meeting her at the party, but at this point I couldn't care less.

Later on, I'm sitting down on a bench and guess who suddenly comes sitting next to me? So we started talking, I applied kino etc. She was showing lots of IOI's and the chemistry between us was rising high again. But after the way things went down earlier that night, I just didn't "feel" it anymore, you know? Too little too late, my enthusiasm was gone, I didn't even feel motivated to escalate things further. I'm sure I could've kiss-closed her easily (and who knows what more) if I had kept my game up. But I didn't, she had made me 'lose my appetite' by her earlier behavior. So eventually, she ended up with her friends again and so did I.

At the end of the night, she came to say goodbye. Again she acted very interested, sending lots of IOI's etc. So I decided to go for her number... She gave it and I told her I'd call her sometime. She responded positively to that, smiled and went to her friends.

Two minutes later, I see her dancing with that other dude again! Just for a short while, then she and her girlfriends left the party (the dude stayed). Again, she did this while I could easily see it happening, she was clearly aware of that.


I get the idea she likes that dude but she likes me better. My friends also told me the same, that the way she was interacting with me was more interested, more intimately etc. than with him. She also seemed to kinda keep him off at certain points when he tried to escalate further, whereas she was putting up no resistance at all with me.

So I guess I'm the top dog... And I'm pretty sure I can succesfully set up a date with her and seal the deal... But I don't care, her behavior made my interest level drop HARD. I know women play games, I know they like to make guys chase after them, like to be 'conquered' and everything. I guess that's what she was trying to do, make me jaleous, make me compete with the other dude, so I would have to TAKE her. But all she did, was make me lose interest.

So guys, what's your take on this? What would you have done that night? How would you feel about the situation?

Am I being anal here? My feelings would've been different if I had never seen her before that night... But we had met twice at the gym already and had quite some conversation there. Longer conversations, getting to know each other, details about each other's life's, interests etc. We had established quite some rapport already... Her behavior at the party disappointed me, she suddenly acted like we had no history whatsoever, like we had never met before and I had to win her all over again. There was a buildup during the last two weeks, when we got to know each other through the conversations in the gym. There was a buildup to us meeting at the party, but she acted like that buildup had never happened. It felt sort of like going on a date and then, as you are on the date, she starts flirting with another guy, forcing you to compete over her. Most people would find that unacceptable, it's sort of an unwritten rule. The buildup during our meetings at the gym and the way we agreed to meetup at the party, it felt sort of like an "unofficial date". Then she basically made that other dude part of our "unofficial date" and I find that unacceptable, it left a very bad taste in my mouth.


I'm going to contact her sometime and setup the date anyway. But my interest level has just taken a dive from "VERY INTERESTED" to "WHATEVER..."

Would you guys feel the same or am I being a crybaby??

 

[SoldMySoul]

Look at it this way Die, "The hardest to get ain't always the best!" Sometimes in the pursuit of this being a challenge by women, it turns against them. Which in your case proves more than true. I speak from experience as well! I expect and appreciate a small bit of resistance, but on the other hand I despise game being run too strong.

Furthermore, in your case from what I read, it appeared you two had agreed upon meeting there together. So in essence, she broke the frame and more importantly she broke her word!

These days I have ZERO TOLERANCE for people, women as well as men, whom cannot keep their word. It suggests a character of less than valuable and I simply do not care to keep those in my precious world.

To answer your question about you being anal: I say hell no you are not being anal!!! I mean if you want to chase after this flake, be my guest. Now I would NOT do it, in my bigger afc days I would have. I think you are exuding great value personally. Some may disagree we you and I, but for one, I am on your side on this one!

 

[mick b]

If she was actually using the other guy to mess with you, that's a really ****ty thing to do and I wouldn't actively pursue her. I had a similar situation where I met a girl online and after emails, texts, coffee, more texts - eventually we arranged a date for the weekend. When I got there she was hanging out with her male 'friend.' She obviously viewed him as a non-sexual entity of some sort, but after an hour of fighting for her attention and not being able to get her 1 on 1 I gave up and bailed. She may or may not have been playing games but I didn't like her enough to find out.

Sounds like maybe you do like this girl enough to find out, but best case scenario she already knew the guy and was just letting loose with disregard for you being there. Worst she was actively mindjobbing you like you describe and you can expect more of that in the future. Either way, I'd say the attitude of 'WHATEVER' is appropriate.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Hey Die Hard,

I think you did the right thing, and I've been in this exact situation before. My interest in her went down as well. It's like we've reached a point where we just don't, naturally, tolerate these kind of games.

She was either using the guy to see if you'd get jealous. If so, you passed this test with flying colors, and her interest went up. Or, she was just bouncing around to whomever gave her the most attention. A lot of gals do this at parties. Remember, yes you agreed to meet her there, however you didn't go to the party together. There's a subtle difference there.

Either way, I'd view her behavior as a possible red flag. I say possible, because it may be too early to judge her completely.

Basically, I'd give her another chance. Give her the opportunity to make it up to you. See if she does. It's up to you.

 

[st_99]

Am I being anal here?

I think you're being totally anal. In your head you went on the defensive right away. That brought your spirits down and you created that mood yourself.

Was she playing games? Trying to make you jealous? Maybe, so what, but I seriously doubt it. IMO, I think she was just trying to not appear lonely and TOTALLY available. Girls do that sh!t allthe time. Its just a silly little defense mechanism.

You should have stepped it up at the party. Sounds like she put you on the defensive way too easily, and that means
you're already afc like, by thinking about her like somebody you want to be dating before u even know her. You saw a fish, you cast your line, the fish jumped a bit and darted about 10 feet and so you threw your tackle box and fishing pole in the water in frustration and drove your boat home. You'll never catch like that, haha. But its cool, you got the number call her and find out what she's about, could be she is a total flaky b!tch and im wrong. Oh well.

and another thing, you're like sitting there inspecting and playing detective and sh!t, she did this, then walked here, then smiled at guy, then my friend said she looked at me, then she got a drink, then she blah blah...thats what girls do, haha. Stop it! How could you ever sustain a good mood like that? You're not acting like #1. Just get your game on and get in her pants!

 

[cordoncordon]

Basically you are upset at her for her doing the same thing that guys do (on the advice of this website) to girls. That is, play hard to get. Be the prize. Make them work for it.

So to answer, yes I think you are being anal. You thought this girl would drop her panties at the mere sight of seeing you that night, and when she didn't your feelings were hurt.

 

[zekko]

Basically you are upset at her for her doing the same thing that guys do (on the advice of this website) to girls. That is, play hard to get. Be the prize. Make them work for it.

That struck me too. I bet there are countless times guys here have lost women by applying too much game. I've read posts like "I was playing the DJ, flirting and talking with all the girls. Why did she go cold on me?". Probably because she thought you were playing her. This "make them jealous and show preselection" stuff doesn't always work, it can backfire.

I can see both sides here. If you're just wanting to bang this girl, who cares that she's dancing with some other dude? On the other hand, I don't like to play games, so I probably would have lost interest, too. This is why parties aren't good "first dates", I guess. Too many other people to c0ckblock or get in the way.

 

[Serg897]

I can definately see both sides here too, although I think I would have done something similar to the OP.

Look at it this way - we all want to be with women who are highly interested. If she was her actions would have demonstrated this a little clearer.

On the bright side, he still got her number, and still can call and ask her out and test her interest that way if he chooses. I think it pays not to be too clingy at the party or trying to interact with her too much - I usually like to save that for when Im on a date, 1on1.

 

[backbreaker]

i don't think you are being anal.

i get the raising interest thing but even a woman who is playing 2 men against each other should not be stupid enough to literally rub it in his face. that's not very tactful and show's a lack of maturity.

in other words, it would not bother me that there was another man in the picture honestly. i get the competition thing. what would bother me is that she lacked enough tact to know how to imply that she had other men interested in her without literally dancing with another dude while i was there.

even women are the same way. most women know that a good man she is going to have to fight for. and she will more times than not. but not igf you are litarlly just rubbing it in her face.

 

[st_99]

playing 2 men against each other

but they are nothing. no dates yet, he didn't even have her phone number. how can she possibly be playing 2 men against eachother?

you can't play someone that you have a 15 minute conversation with at the gym. there is nothing to play here yet. until you go on an actual date, whats there to play exactly?

maybe SHE feels like she is playing 2 guys but from die hards perpective, how can you be feeling played? you don't know a girl past 15 minutes, its impossible to be played.

 

[Die Hard]

Thanks a lot, men! It's nice to hear all the different perspectives, coz I've been having difficulty determining my own perspective here. Some of you mentioned you could see both sides to it and that was exactly what I have been doing for these last two days, I just couldn't make my mind up about the situation and how to proceed from here.

By now, I've kinda eased into the WHATEVER attitude and decided to play this out. I'll try to hook up with her and see how it goes from there.

I think I got a little too carried away with my expectations based on the buildup to that night. No girl you have only met 3 times justifies VERY INTERESTED... Her behavior actually "corrected" my attitude to WHATEVER, which should've been my attitude regardless.

Still, I ask myself if that change in my attitude is the only neccesary response to her behavior. That change in attitude protects me from future dissapointment but it's only a passive response which concerns my own behavior. Shouldn't I also apply a more proactive response that deals with HER behavior? One that makes her realize that I dissaprove of her behavior, one that makes her realize that she'd better not do something like this again if she wants to keep my interest?

But how? I can't just call her up and say: "Hey, I wanna meet up with you, but first you need to promise me to never display that kind of behavior again!"

Overtly expressing such things is an obvious no-no. But how could I possibly communicate it to her in a covert manner? Still, I feel I need to adress her behavior now, otherwise she would feel like she can get away with it "Hah, instead of showing me my behavior was unacceptable, this guy just REWARDS my behavior by asking me out!"

Basically, I'd give her another chance. Give her the opportunity to make it up to you. See if she does. It's up to you.

In order to give her a chance to make it up to me, I would first have to communicate to her that I'm dissapointed with her behavior. After all, why would she try to make it up to me if I didn't even express any disappointment about her behavior? But if I do express my disappointment, I will surely come off as a crybaby to her, I will surely appear to be anal about the situation in her eyes. I might as well put her on a pedestam and kiss her feet...

That's the dilemma... I definitely feel her behavior was unacceptable. At the one hand, you should keep your cool and show her that you are unfazed by her behavior. On the other hand, you need to show her that she can't mess with you and you won't tolerate unaceptable behavior. So what's the right course of action here?

 

[Die Hard]

but they are nothing. no dates yet, he didn't even have her phone number. how can she possibly be playing 2 men against eachother?

you can't play someone that you have a 15 minute conversation with at the gym. there is nothing to play here yet. until you go on an actual date, whats there to play exactly?

maybe SHE feels like she is playing 2 guys but from die hards perpective, how can you be feeling played? you don't know a girl past 15 minutes, its impossible to be played.

Like I said before, things would have been different if I had never met her before the party. I would've been unfazed by her behavior if that was the case.

But that wasn't the case. First of all, there were two encounters before the party. Both encounters were around 15/20 minute conversations. In those conversations, we had already established quite some rapport, told each other personal things about ourselves (beyond where do you live, what are your hobbies), expressed our opinions on several important matters etc. Hell, one could argue that one "date" sometimes takes up 15/20 minutes and consists of the two people having a similar conversation. Does it really matter that we had the conversations at the gym, instead of a bar and that we were at the gym by coincidense instead of mutual agreement? That's all irrelevant.
On top of that, there was a lot of chemistry and mutual attraction between us. When we agreed to meet up at the party, we never said it out loud, but through all of our behavior, we were communicating to each other: "I can't wait to see you tomorrow!"

There was definitely something established between us in the buildup to the party.

According to your logic, a girl can agree to hook up with a guy and then start flirting all night with another dude, as long as they never explicityl called their hookup a "date". It's not about the words, man... Two people meet each other 2 times, have interesting conversations, share details about their personal life, establish quite some rapport, display lots of kino, have lots of chemistry going on, then communicate to each other that they would both love to see each other the following night. Even though I agree with the guy who said there's a subtle difference between arriving together at a party or agreeing to meet up AT the party, you can't act like there is nothing going on and that it's totally normal for the girl to go and flirt heavy with some other dude in front of me the following night.

 

[Greasy Pig]

This is a tough dilemma. On the one hand, my first instinct is to think: "Who gives a shyt. There was no `relationship contract' and the only expectation of intimacy was on your part, OP. She and you can agree to go to the friggin moon together but if it's not a date, I don't think you can get p1ssed if she starts grinding some alien muthfvcker the whole time.

Women are fvcked in the head, we all know that. She might have been telling her friends how she's made a great new friend at the gym. But you're thinking there's definite romance there.
I'd give her one more chance but on a `proper' date. And I wouldn't mention her behaviour at the party. Yeah, it stinks. But as I said, she may not be considering you in a romantic light.
If you bring it up, she might think you're a bit of a control freak. I know if I was in this situation and the roles were reversed and some chick criticised me for dancing with another girl, I'd feel quite affronted as there was no `real' date.
And besides, if I was really, passionately and genuinely interested in a girl I knew would be at the same party, I'd flirt with other girls there but I don't think I'd be spending most of the night on the dance floor with ONE other girl.
I think she's a bit of a playa from what you've written here.

 

[Jitterbug]

It's not the competition, it's the in-your-faceness of the whole situation. It's rather tactless.

Also, it indirectly says something: she is not so keen on you that she was willing to risk flirting with another guy right in front of you. IOW, she couldn't care less about the possibility of you getting offended. A woman with high interest may have some discreet plates spinning on the side (even a BF or a husband!), but she would do everything to hide them from you, if you're a highly valuable potential.

Next time that happens, say something nonchalantly like "you two look cute together".

So what's the right course of action here?

She has communicated with you the kind of game she wants to play. The first thing you should do is ask yourself: do you want to play this game?

 

[Naughty Ninja]

There's this girl I met at the gym. She was showing lots of interest. We talked about some party that was coming up last weekend and it turned out we would both be going there.

We had lots of chemistry going on in the gym, were talking for about 15 minutes, lots of kino going on, she was asking lots of personal questions, constantly playing with her hair, touching herself, smiling at me and remaining eye contact for long periods of time during conversation. The chemistry was very high, so high I would've kissed her on the spot if there was no one around (seemed kinda weird to start kissing in the middle of the gym, lol). So we said goodbye, kissed on the cheeks, then as she was walking away she kept locking her eyes to mine and said: "I'll see you at the party!".

Cat in the bag...

So when I arrived at the party, I took a look around but didn't see her yet. Later on, I could discern her among the crowd on the dancefloor... She was dancing with some guy, not grinding or touching each other, but they were clearly liking each other, the way they were smiling at looking at each other. I decided to play it cool, positioned myself not too far away from her, so I was sure that she would notice me at some point. My plan was to wait for her to leave him and come to me... I wasn't gonna approach her and try to win her attention, fvck that sh!t...

So, in the meantime, I just did my own thing, walked around and danced with my friends, had lots of fun. The place wasn't that big, you can see everyone who's inside, if you take a look around you. She was dancing and talking with that other dude for a long time but at some point they broke up and she was standing/dancing with some other girls from that moment on. I had been neglecting her from the moment I saw her and kept doing so when she was with those other girls. Why? Coz my friend told me he had seen her looking at me several times, as she was interacting with the dude, as well as when she was with the girls.

Look, we agreed to meet up there and she was very enthusiastic about it... Then when I arrive, she decided to keep talking and dancing with that dude, instead of actually "meeting up" with me. She knew I was there but consciously decided to stay with him. At one point, their dancing actually did become quite physical, and I'm sure she was aware of me being able to see it...

That made me lose my interest in her. I had initiaally been looking forward to meeting her at the party, but at this point I couldn't care less.

Later on, I'm sitting down on a bench and guess who suddenly comes sitting next to me? So we started talking, I applied kino etc. She was showing lots of IOI's and the chemistry between us was rising high again. But after the way things went down earlier that night, I just didn't "feel" it anymore, you know? Too little too late, my enthusiasm was gone, I didn't even feel motivated to escalate things further. I'm sure I could've kiss-closed her easily (and who knows what more) if I had kept my game up. But I didn't, she had made me 'lose my appetite' by her earlier behavior. So eventually, she ended up with her friends again and so did I.

At the end of the night, she came to say goodbye. Again she acted very interested, sending lots of IOI's etc. So I decided to go for her number... She gave it and I told her I'd call her sometime. She responded positively to that, smiled and went to her friends.

Two minutes later, I see her dancing with that other dude again! Just for a short while, then she and her girlfriends left the party (the dude stayed). Again, she did this while I could easily see it happening, she was clearly aware of that.


I get the idea she likes that dude but she likes me better. My friends also told me the same, that the way she was interacting with me was more interested, more intimately etc. than with him. She also seemed to kinda keep him off at certain points when he tried to escalate further, whereas she was putting up no resistance at all with me.

So I guess I'm the top dog... And I'm pretty sure I can succesfully set up a date with her and seal the deal... But I don't care, her behavior made my interest level drop HARD. I know women play games, I know they like to make guys chase after them, like to be 'conquered' and everything. I guess that's what she was trying to do, make me jaleous, make me compete with the other dude, so I would have to TAKE her. But all she did, was make me lose interest.

So guys, what's your take on this? What would you have done that night? How would you feel about the situation?

Am I being anal here? My feelings would've been different if I had never seen her before that night... But we had met twice at the gym already and had quite some conversation there. Longer conversations, getting to know each other, details about each other's life's, interests etc. We had established quite some rapport already... Her behavior at the party disappointed me, she suddenly acted like we had no history whatsoever, like we had never met before and I had to win her all over again. There was a buildup during the last two weeks, when we got to know each other through the conversations in the gym. There was a buildup to us meeting at the party, but she acted like that buildup had never happened. It felt sort of like going on a date and then, as you are on the date, she starts flirting with another guy, forcing you to compete over her. Most people would find that unacceptable, it's sort of an unwritten rule. The buildup during our meetings at the gym and the way we agreed to meetup at the party, it felt sort of like an "unofficial date". Then she basically made that other dude part of our "unofficial date" and I find that unacceptable, it left a very bad taste in my mouth.


I'm going to contact her sometime and setup the date anyway. But my interest level has just taken a dive from "VERY INTERESTED" to "WHATEVER..."

Would you guys feel the same or am I being a crybaby??

How would this chick feel if you did the same to her? From reading your story she semi-hooked you with rapport then played the jealousy angle by 'innocently dancing' with another dude in front of you at a party you were both supposed to meet at. Me personally I have no time for that nonsense if a chick tried to pull that crap with me.

I'd go ghost on that chick. But that's me. It's up to you if you are 'man' enough to pass her childish little test of 'wanting' her more. It's up to you though as no one on here but you can really decide what you feel like doing.The best way to play it if you see her again is to act like it never happened and keep things cordial and be unaffected by that night. I wouldn't be surprised if she tries to read your body language, mood, or the conversation time to see "what's wrong?". Meet other chicks and keep that chick as something to play with knowing she's low on the list.

 

[scrouds]

Seems like you just have standards. This doesn't sound like some pointy elbow stuff, so as long as its healthy, as long as you're getting your needs met in the end, who cares about this one girl.

I would like to remind everyone that men and women are essentially different in many ways. I consider arguments suggesting Die Hard apply his male POV while in the shoes of the woman as logical fallacies. Men and women experience emotions differently. What is off-putting to a man can be an attractant to women.

 

[zekko]

The whole "I'll see you at the party" thing is too vague. I'd consider this a yellow flag until you see how she behaves during and after a real date. I definitely wouldn't bring it up.

Then there's dancing protocol to think about. If this other guy asked her to dance, did she really have a reason to say no, especially if you hadn't arrived yet? In some circles, even married couples dance with other partners routinely. She may think nothing of it. Then she probably was wondering why you never came and talked to her, and seemed distant.

 

[runner83]

The whole "I'll see you at the party" thing is too vague. I'd consider this a yellow flag until you see how she behaves during and after a real date. I definitely wouldn't bring it up.

Then there's dancing protocol to think about. If this other guy asked her to dance, did she really have a reason to say no, especially if you hadn't arrived yet? In some circles, even married couples dance with other partners routinely. She may think nothing of it. Then she probably was wondering why you never came and talked to her, and seemed distant.

^^ This.

Sounds like you blew a damned near sure thing.

 

[st_99]

According to your logic, a girl can agree to hook up with a guy.

then i would argue you misread your previous interactions with her. you saw it as more than she did. that happens all the time. either way though, its not really important, you can still just find out whats up with this girl without any expectations.

 

[SoldMySoul]

then i would argue you misread your previous interactions with her. you saw it as more than she did. that happens all the time. either way though, its not really important, you can still just find out whats up with this girl without any expectations.

Now I do agree with this statement. Diehard, you did have high expectations and as a result you were left feeling rather annoyed. Totally understandable. Really you should try and see where this thing leads with this one. I am betting money she will be flaky and you get similar treatment.

That competition thing is always been such a silly thing. If I get a sense she is rubbing it in my face, I bail!