Always call women on their bluffs/ultimatums

[oldmanofthesea]

This is something that one can only do once they truly get out of the scarcity mindset, and either have true abundance, or have honestly adopted the mindset that they are better off single or in a dry spell than getting regular sex from a woman who is trying to control them.

A common female bluff is to tell you they don't like something you are doing, and if you disagree with them and refuse to apologize/change/comply, they say something like, "Well I don't think this is going to work then." If it's going to happen with any given girl, usually it starts happening fairly early on in dating, around a month or two. The only correct response to this bluff is to confidently say, "I completely agree," and walk.

It might not be a bluff on her part but in my experience it is 9 times out of 10. But it doesn't matter because whether she is bluffing or serious, your answer and your position should be the same, and that is: If you don't agree with what she is saying after thinking honestly and fairly about it, you don't accept any blame or ultimatum from her.

The reason we even have to explain something like this to men is from all the brainwashing about "compromise" being required in relationships. Yes, some compromise IS required in a relationship, but most men don't understand where the line is between fair compromise and allowing a woman to run the relationship and control them in an unhealthy way. They let women tell them what's morally right or wrong instead of forming their own opinion, and because women are extremely persistent and self-righteous, especially with men who seem like they might be convinced and fold as opposed to standing firm in their convictions, eventually women wear them down and they end up agreeing just to "save the peace". The only problem is, it doesn't save the peace. Quite the opposite. It pisses her off because you have demonstrated you are weak and have no spine and conviction and won't stand up to her.

This whole topic is simply about maintaining frame. But for the people just getting started here, I wanted to explain how it looks in a specific and very common real-world example that everyone has experienced.

 

[andreihaha]

This is something that one can only do once they truly get out of the scarcity mindset, and either have true abundance, or have honestly adopted the mindset that they are better off single or in a dry spell than getting regular sex from a woman who is trying to control them.

A common female bluff is to tell you they don't like something you are doing, and if you disagree with them and refuse to apologize/change/comply, they say something like, "Well I don't think this is going to work then." If it's going to happen with any given girl, usually it starts happening fairly early on in dating, around a month or two. The only correct response to this bluff is to confidently say, "I completely agree," and walk.

It might not be a bluff on her part but in my experience it is 9 times out of 10. But it doesn't matter because whether she is bluffing or serious, your answer and your position should be the same, and that is: If you don't agree with what she is saying after thinking honestly and fairly about it, you don't accept any blame or ultimatum from her.

The reason we even have to explain something like this to men is from all the brainwashing about "compromise" being required in relationships. Yes, some compromise IS required in a relationship, but most men don't understand where the line is between fair compromise and allowing a woman to run the relationship and control them in an unhealthy way. They let women tell them what's morally right or wrong instead of forming their own opinion, and because women are extremely persistent and self-righteous, especially with men who seem like they might be convinced and fold as opposed to standing firm in their convictions, eventually women wear them down and they end up agreeing just to "save the peace". The only problem is, it doesn't save the peace. Quite the opposite. It pisses her off because you have demonstrated you are weak and have no spine and conviction and won't stand up to her.

This whole topic is simply about maintaining frame. But for the people just getting started here, I wanted to explain how it looks in a specific and very common real-world example that everyone has experienced.

I have to add that this is something I even do when it comes to women I'm just meeting now.

If they start comming up with BS or behaviour I consider unacceptable, I call of their BS and move on.
I feel like this is an important thing for any of us men to do, as it trains the women population a little better.
If all of us would do this, most of the BS would be eradicated.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

This made me realize something. I wonder if in their subconscious they equate the fact that a man wouldn't stand up to a weak silly female. How would he stand up to another man to protect her?

It absolutely does and it has been well-documented too. If a man can't stand up for himself, what is to make her think he will stand up to another man, for himself or for her.

Testing men is a part of a woman's feminine energy - she does it not so much as a "test," but as a covert way of ASKING her man to feel his masculinity on-demand.

 

[BadBoy89]

The reason we even have to explain something like this to men is from all the brainwashing about "compromise" being required in relationships. Yes, some compromise IS required in a relationship, but most men don't understand where the line is between fair compromise and allowing a woman to run the relationship and control them in an unhealthy way.

For me, a woman’s is ALWAYS right. Unless it costs me money or she insults, then I will reply.

Other than that, anything a woman’s says, I say “OK.”

 

[SargeMaximus]

From personal experience I can confirm. It’s gotten to the point where I have to be completely unreasonable which is a shame since I am a reasonable guy. But I’m learning that most “compromise chances” are tests rather than real opportunities to compromise.

I knew a guy once who would say a loud difinitive “NO” to even the most agreeable statement and he seemed to be doing well with women.

 

[Zimbabwe]

We need advice like this pinned on the front page for all newbies to see.

 

[SargeMaximus]

We need advice like this pinned on the front page for all newbies to see.

Agreed. It would have saved my relationship if I had known.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Come to think of it, another “beta test” is asking for help. Women play the victim and ask for help and if you tell them no they soon after want you to fvck them. Pic below of the 22 year old i fvcked earlier this year who was trying to get me to help her find a job.

 

[derby1]

This makes me think that only men who are not fully exuding their masculine energy would experience these requests/"tests".

nope women are lunatics they do it to anyone

 

[oldmanofthesea]

This makes me think that only men who are not fully exuding their masculine energy would experience these requests/"tests".

It is a tough question to answer because we only see outcomes through our own eyes and perhaps there are subtle (or not so subtle depending on where we are in our evolution) cues that women pick up on that cause them to test more or less based on that but.......

nope women are lunatics they do it to anyone

...... yes this has been my personal experience, which leads me to believe that it's more about the woman. But a point of clarification: All women will do it, however, a man who is not masculine will, on average, experience more of these "tests" from women. This is because when a woman asks to feel your masculinity and you repeatedly fail to give it to her, she is going to get frustrated like a child who wants to go out and play but is never allowed. That frustration will build and build and the tests will increase. How many times have you seen passive men in relationships/marriages with women who constantly hen-peck and belittle them? This is usually the scenario of a woman who has been asking to feel his masculinity for months or years and never received it so that frustration builds and you end up with the previously described behavior. At the same time, the last girl I was in an 18 month long LTR with tested me nearly every time we were together. I held solid frame with her every time (with only one exception - a mistake on my part), called her on every bluff/ultimatum, broke up with her probably 10x each time she crossed my clearly and firmly communicated boundaries (after which she would beg me back), yet she continued to test me and the tests actually escalated over time. You could say she had serious fear/anxiety/insecurity issues or a personality disorder, but you could also say she simply wasn't able or willing to embrace her femininity and was instead exuding masculine energy - constantly trying to lead and be in control. When two people of the same polarity get together, the wrong kind of sparks fly and it can't work.

From personal experience I can confirm. It’s gotten to the point where I have to be completely unreasonable which is a shame since I am a reasonable guy. But I’m learning that most “compromise chances” are tests rather than real opportunities to compromise.

In general, I agree and have come to the same conclusion over the course of my own evolution. I find this to be more true during the very initial stages of dating vs after you've been in an LTR for at least 3-6 months though (the tests will still come then but not over everything usually). During the initial stages of dating, you are setting the tone of the relationship. To stringpullers point.....

I also believe these days its not in their frontal lobe. Not calculated. Almost like a nature protocol just as any other creature we see out here with a "ritual"

.... which I 100% agree with; the woman is unknowingly using all her hind-brain, hard-coded, evolutionary value-testing tools to determine a man's suitability for breeding. We men do that more by simply evaluating a woman's appearance through visual cues while women do it partially from that, but also through value/status assessment. I have learned in very early dating phases, you have to be very uncompromising, even for what seems like stupid little things. A common, real-world example I've personally learned through experience is when you ask a girl out to a specific place at a specific time and she says, "Hmmm, let's go to Cafe X instead." If we had been dating a while, I would respond by trying to find out if there is something about the place I invited her to that she doesn't like and if it's reasonable like, "I want to talk to you during our date and the music at that place is always so loud that I can never hear anyone," or, "All they have is seafood and I'm allergic" etc, I would accept her suggestion as a fair compromise. But in early dating, no. My usually response is, "Sure, you can take me there on our second date, but lets go here tonight." etc. And if I get the feeling that a woman is really trying to frame grab, I won't even accept counter-offers on the day that we meet. For example, we all know that if you throw out a date and she declines without offering a counter-offer for another day she is available, you next her. But if I get the sense a girl is trying to frame grab, if she does throw out a counter-offer for a day, I'll tell her I'm busy that day and suggestion another day instead, and I will keep doing this until she agrees to the day I chose. This all may seem ridiculous, and to our male brains it is, but you can see the reasoning behind it here is is proof in a specific example. I recall one girl who I went back and forth with on setting a second date with about 8 times before she finally accepted a date I threw out. It was literally:

"hey let's go out Thursday the 2nd"
"I can't do that date, I'll be at my parents. How about Sunday the 5th?
"No I'll be out of town that day. What about Tuesday the 7th?"
"I have to work late that day. What about Friday the 10th?"
"Sorry I have plans that day. How about Monday the 13th?"

It went around and around like that until our date was scheduled three weeks out. I'm sorry but it is extremely clear here that what I described as the underlying purpose/motivation/tactic is exactly what this was. She was trying to grab frame and set the stage - there is no other valid conclusion to take from this, and I was not going to comply. Some may agree with me on what is happening here, but disagree on how I handled it and simply say they don't have time for nonsense and it's better to just next a girl like this. I wouldn't argue against that advice at all, but it's your choice. I'm a curious person and like to run little tests to see how things work and what makes people tick so that is why I don't always next a girl like this, especially if I really want to sleep with her - but she has to ultimately comply and if she does not, I next.

I knew a guy once who would say a loud difinitive “NO” to even the most agreeable statement and he seemed to be doing well with women.

While I don't think this is healthy, it will work on many women for the same reason women tend to date a-holes, sociopaths, and narcissists. They crave masculinity so much, and true, kind, positive masculinity is so rare, that they will settle for a jerk just to experience his masculinity. They don't understand why they do it and it frustrates them. It's why they all SAY they want a nice guy but then go home with the jerk: they simply can't find a nice guy who is masculine because these men are in incredibly short supply, and this is why you will enjoy a lot of success with women if you can be that nice, masculine guy.

Last thing I want to say is to clarify about bluffing. When I say you call her bluff by agreeing with her that "this isn't going to work out" and walk away, I don't mean this will always be the end of it with her. It CAN be if you choose so, but 9 times out of 10 she will be absolutely shell-shocked that you called her bluff, took away her only power, and proved to her you will be leading this dance. She will then back-pedal or pretend she didn't say it and often beg you to stay, right there in that moment. If she doesn't and you leave, she will usually start texting you while you're still on your way home, or soon after. But do not mistake my saying this to mean that you should call her bluff thinking you won't end up "losing" her, because you might, and if you do then you must be ok with it and understand it was the right thing to do. And for god's sake if you call her bluff and she doesn't back-pedal or come back around, do FVCKING NOT TAKE IT BACK and come crawling back to her!!!!!!! Of all the weak things you could do, this would be it. Now you've just doubled-down on being spineless.

 

[derby1]

That frustration will build and build and the tests will increase. How many times have you seen passive men in relationships/marriages with women who constantly hen-peck and belittle them?

Quick story, and why theres no such thing as equality.

I'm in my car with my daughter, another woman and her daughter.

I tell my daughter to let the songs play through the head unit, instead of cutting them off 1 minute in.

Suprisingly she goes "NO" ( she never does this)

I could feel all the feminine energy in the car, eyeball me, Make your move alpha .

it was like one big **** test that they all joined forces on, even though only the one initiated it.

There would have been mutiny on my ship if had failed,

As it was, I forcibly grabbed the phone, not one of them disrespected me the rest of the afternoon.

 

[Fruitbat]

Good god. I read this earlier. We had a disagreement, I wanted to go hike, she wanted me to stay there. She was very much trying to get a bit bossy and making minor threats. I might have tried to negotiate and pursuade but I remembered this and just went.
Came back, sweet as anything.
Those female ultimatums and shyt tests are made of pie crust

 

[HaleyBaron]

I held solid frame with her every time (with only one exception - a mistake on my part), called her on every bluff/ultimatum, broke up with her probably 10x each time she crossed my clearly and firmly communicated boundaries (after which she would beg me back), yet she continued to test me and the tests actually escalated over time. You could say she had serious fear/anxiety/insecurity issues or a personality disorder, but you could also say she simply wasn't able or willing to embrace her femininity and was instead exuding masculine energy - constantly trying to lead and be in control. When two people of the same polarity get together, the wrong kind of sparks fly and it can't work.

This has to be a feminist thing cause I experienced this far too many times. I've watched guys who are suppose to be manlier than me have to suffer through this, too. The world keeps telling them to be their own strong independent women, which is a big lie as far as I'm concerned. She is getting peer pressured from everyone: her peers, her former teachers, the media, movies, music, all of it is telling these women that they are special and don't have to bow down to anyone. Making them angry.

Meanwhile, every woman wants to be a female. She wants to trust a man to protect and lead her. Yet she is wondering if she let any man do it if the world is telling her otherwise. A clear indication that religion held this all together before modern culture destroyed God. I'm almost for destroying all the foundations of social media and tv to get us back to reality.

 

[Bokanovsky]

For me, a woman’s is ALWAYS right. Unless it costs me money or she insults, then I will reply.

Other than that, anything a woman’s says, I say “OK.”

Can’t tell if you are being serious or facetious? If it’s the former, you need to change your handle to MommasBoy89…