Alpha/Beta in real life

[AW1983]

I've noticed we have a tendency to get too polarized in our viewpoints on here, to a degree of zealotry at times. Just read this and thought it was pretty balanced:

http://postmasculine.com/butchering-the-alpha-male

 

[st_99]

This is what i always thought of as alpha, so i wouldn't describe it as 'new' like the author has, thats been my interpretation all along..

A new-definition Alpha Male has complete control over his boundaries, so if he CHOOSES to act selflessly, to act compassionately, to sacrifice himself, or even to take a backseat and let others shine, he can. That’s the mark of the True Alpha Male, the man who has utter control over his boundaries and how he enmeshes himself into any social situation. He feels no NEED to overcompensate or to dominate or to intimidate, although he CAN if he wishes. He feels no NEED to sacrifice or lay down for anyone, but if the appropriate situation arises, he can do that if he wishes as well.

 

[imarockstar]

This is a great article. I remember reading it a year or two ago, yet I did not read it all the way through. Even if I did, I don't think it would have changed me. I had to experience this revelation myself.

You know what characteristics I would use to accurately describe an alpha male?



A man that keeps his ego (or technically his id) intact.

A man that is not easily angered, who keeps his cool, because he knows the difference between right and wrong, and he is secure enough to brush off any slanders that someone may throw his way.

A man who has a passion in his life, or many hobbies that keep him happy independently, rather than having his happiness dependent on another person.

A man who is secure enough to realize that treating others well and being friendly does not equal weakness.

A man who constantly stays educated, wether it be at a university or at home reading a book.

A man who is healthy, not because he hopes to impress women, but because he cares about himself.

A man who does not succumb to peer pressure, doing drugs or going to bars and getting hammered because that is what the majority of his social circle does.

A man who realizes that sometimes he is better off alone than in the destructive company of others.

A man who can provide for himself, or if he has one, his family.

A man who follows his own path, his own will, rather than what society or the media tells him to follow.



A man who is simply, a man. The alpha male is just another character for the insecure/unenlightened to play.

 

[Lexington]

I've read a lot of the stuff this guy writes and he makes some great points. I just think that he's a little bit like an alcoholic who blames Budweiser for his problems.

Obviously, the Alpha/Beta dichotomy is not a comprehensive explanation of male and female interactions. It's just a narrative used to explain PUA concepts. If some people obsess over it so much that they categorize everything into Alpha or Beta, that's their own fault!

Do some people get too caught up in this false dichotomy? Yes. Do some people get too caught up in the whole PUA thing? Definitely. But that's not the fault of the PUA community itself. Most of the widely accepted concepts in the PUA do help guys do better with the ladies and that's the point.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying a few beers with your friends. There's no harm in getting drunk every now and then. If you can't control your drinking and you end up ruining your whole life because you didn't know when to stop, that's on you.

I got interested in the PUA community because I wanted to improve my luck with women. I read up on stuff from this site and other resources and I applied it. It worked. I used the info for what it was worth, that's it.

I get the impression that the author got too caught up in pickup and now he tends to blame the PUA community as a whole, which is why most of his comments about it are negative.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic.

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/alpha/

It makes guys feel good about themselves to define Alpha in their own image (leader of men, family provider, etc.), but they only get frustrated and conflicted when they see women gravitate towards the douchey-est of guys and his Alpha energy. Then they qualify the women attracted to them as "low quality" to fit with their personal Alpha narrative.

Alpha is elemental. It's like fire; you can use it to cook your food and keep you warm or you can use it to burn your neighbor's house down. Alpha will always defy your personal attempts to define it. There are Alpha behaviors, cues and outward manifestations to be sure, but the death row inmate is equally as Alpha as the upstanding businessman who takes care of his responsibilities.

 

[AW1983]

Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic.

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/alpha/

It makes guys feel good about themselves to define Alpha in their own image (leader of men, family provider, etc.), but they only get frustrated and conflicted when they see women gravitate towards the douchey-est of guys and his Alpha energy. Then they qualify the women attracted to them as "low quality" to fit with their personal Alpha narrative.

Alpha is elemental. It's like fire; you can use it to cook your food and keep you warm or you can use it to burn your neighbor's house down. Alpha will always defy your personal attempts to define it. There are Alpha behaviors, cues and outward manifestations to be sure, but the death row inmate is equally as Alpha as the upstanding businessman who takes care of his responsibilities.

Poetic post man.

To me Alpha is constructing your own definition of Alpha and adhering to it without exception. Pretty simple.

 

[zekko]

Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic.

This is splitting hairs, but I think there is a difference between alpha male, alpha mindset, and alpha characteristics. Alpha male is a position. It will always mean a Top Male (like a leader of men) or Dominant Male (your serial killer, I suppose). Women are attracted to the alpha male because he is at the top, or is dominant. He wields power, and they are attracted to that.

PUAs try to figure out what characteristics and attitudes the alpha male has, and they try to emulate those. Like not caring about outcome with women, for example. You can teach an 18 year old guy alpha characteristics and an alpha mindset, but does that make him an alpha male? I don't think so. He may grow into one.

To some extent perhaps it's a mistake to define alpha characteristics, because as has been seen there are so many differnet kinds of alpha males, especially in modern times. From the brute force alpha of caveman days to the alpha powerbroker CEO to the alpha skilled quarterback on the field to the alpha convict sitting in prison. That's a pretty wide spectrum.

Like Lexington said, this is something that becomes over-obsessed about in the pickup community. The main value of alphas in the community is as a teaching tool.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

ZEKKO, the problem with your definition is that it casts Alpha into varying degrees of sociological contexts.

Think about how many 'leaders' you know who are ideological Betas. In fact I'd argue that a man who is an inherent Beta has more motivation to become a perceptual 'leader' or seek an authority status amongst his peers, colleagues, society, etc. as a means to offset a natural lack of an Alpha mindset. Barack Obama, arguably the most potentially influential man on the planet by virtue of his position, is still very much a Beta which is evidenced in his self-deprecation and deference to his wife.

Every White Knight you know believes he's an Alpha by virtue of his adherence to what he believes is the social normative expected of him. He believes his postion and his ideology are all that's necessary to qualify him as an Alpha, and any woman who can't appreciate that isn't dedicated to the same ideology and is therefore disqualified from being considered a 'quality' woman.

Contextually, men want to believe that their achievements, affluence, and influence are all default manifestations of an Alpha status. Alpha isn't a status, it is a mindset. There are of millionaire Betas, and unemployed Alphas. The Alpha pool boy that your wife ƒucks while you're away on business making million dollar deals knows exactly how this works.

 

[drak_ool]

He's pretty negative, he complains a lot, and he's a control freak. Also very child-like in a lot of ways, i.e. demanding and a bit petulant.

is he Brazilian? because that would explain all of the above haha

And that raises a good point: can the definition of Alpha vary across cultures? sure, the core concepts don't, but i very much suspect that the peripheral traits certainly do...

 

[zekko]

Think about how many 'leaders' you know who are ideological Betas.

Again, this is splitting hairs. You're looking at the term in a pickup context, and I'm looking at from a more literal perspective.

I don't think ideology enters into it. You're either a top male or you're not. The teacher in the classroom may be a nerd but girls will still crush on him because of his position of authority, not because he's a player or whatever.
Women have a tendency to fall for their boss, etc. I'm sure there are plenty of women who would throw themselves at Obama despite his "beta" mindset.

Only the pickup community is interested in assigning a fixed set of traits to men who are in an alpha positions. In real life, personalities vary. What it takes to become dominant in today's society may be completely different than what it took to be dominant in caveman days. A Sexy Male
is not necessarily in a position to dominate.

What you call an alpha mindset, I would call a masculine mindset. The pool boy may be a very manly man, but I wouldn't call him an alpha male unless he is a top male of some sort. Maybe he has the best body, or is the best lover. The millionaire's wife who is fvcking him is likely just a gold digger. I doubt that she respects either her husband or the pool boy - she's using them both.

Remember, in caveman days the alpha male often had to take what he wanted by force. It wasn't always a matter of being attractive. I think it's a mistake to assume that all alpha males historically are/were necessarily attractive to women.

 

[Iceberg]

Remember, in caveman days the alpha male often had to take what he wanted by force. It wasn't always a matter of being attractive. I think it's a mistake to assume that all alpha males historically are/were necessarily attractive to women.

And branching off from your caveman example - am I the only person who believes that being "alpha" (in the true sense, not PUA sense), is a birthright and not a matter of choice?

It's not a matter of whether you want it or not, it's a matter of your genetics guiding you to excel in situations where you're called upon to lead or inspire others.

There are situations where it may be hiding beneath the surface, like if you spent your life on a quiet farm, but got drafted into a war and became a great military leader. But ultimately, I dont believe that alphas ever sit around analyzing themselves. The best leaders I've witness seem lack self awareness or concern about others' opinions to label themselves in such a way.

 

[CostaDeSol]

Alpha isn't a status, it is a mindset.

According to whom? members of this forum? Can you please let me know where are you getting this definition from?


I was under the impression that Alpha is, BY DEFINITION, the leader of his pack. Isn't that where the term comes from? Alpha IS status.


So you can say Obama has beta qualities. But he is still THE alpha because he is the leader of his people and he has his armies to defend his territories.

 

[CostaDeSol]

What you call an alpha mindset, I would call a masculine mindset.

EXACTLY.