ALERT - Woman over 35 wants Friends first now

[Jean Valjean]

It is amazing but if you date online you will find that literally every woman over 35 - 40 now says they want to be friends first ...and they mean it.

If you let them know in person or by email that you want romance first they say no thanks.

The girl magazines, columns, psychologists etc are now advising women who have been unsuccessful in getting a LTR (in other words meeting too many DJs) to get nice guys or be friends with no sex to test if the guy is really in it for the long term.

As soon as I turn into a sexual being they say sorry I need a friend first.

Don't believe me go online and see what I mean!

 

[backbreaker]

women don't want to be friends with a guy they want to ****.

rollo is dead on with that one. you can't negoiate attraction.

 

[Jean Valjean]

women don't want to be friends with a guy they want to ****.

rollo is dead on with that one. you can't negoiate attraction.

maybe so but I have them tell me before we even talk that they will not meet someone who does not want to be friends first

gess you can just agree with them and make your moves anyway?

maybe their emotions will overtake their logic?

 

[window]

Usually from their perspective it is a test to weed out the guys just looking for sex. It also allows them to appraise you without getting too serious. Remember these girls could line up 20 dates a weekend if they wanted to...so next time they say friends first ? just reply sure no problem. This will get you to a meet and greet. Then you can take it from there. To say you want romance straight up with someone you've only corresponded through email is not a good way to go.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Bullsh!t and bullsh!t.

If you're immediately friendzoned by a Kougar it's because you aren't making your expectations clear enough, soon enough.

You have to give the Kougar permission to release her inner Kitten and that it's perfectly acceptable for her to be a strong sexual animal.

And that you appreciate her for it.

Once she's internalized that comfort there isn't anything she won't be open for.

 

[Sinistar]

ALERT - Woman over 35 wants Friends first now

Whew ... thanks for alerting us ... that was close ... we might have all fallen for it.

Seriously you knob (meant in a good way) - these are just words. As the other posters stated, they are hearing this crap and parroting it right back believing in it like soulmates and all the other programming we know is bunk.

If you ask me, what is at the root of it is not "friendship" or "weeding out guys who just want s3x". Nope. It's covert subtle frame control. These women might be 35-40 but they still want attention, intimacy and security (well the first two are really security for them anyhow).

Women are not as dorky as we're lead to believe. They know that every guy, yep 100%, who respond would never have responded if they weren't to some degree wanting intimacy. So, in other words, just getting a response from her add feeds her attention, acknowledges someone wants her physically and cranks up some drama for her and her friends.

So what's next. They want to own the frame. By 35-40 most have been in 1 or more failed relationships. They believe that the cure to their happiness is owning the frame. And what better way to own the frame - "friendship first". Or as backbreaker reminded us of RT's words - negotiating intimacy should never be tolerated from a guy who's prime directive is intimacy.

Suppose George Clooney responded to the add of one of these women and he said "You're kinda cute, let's have coffee and by the way I don't do female friendships but I'll let you present your case " Now how many would turn him down. Probably less that 5% given his social status and wealth alone. So it's a ruse.

Now, throw a younger guy in with none of that and AFC to boot. She can tool around 20 of these guys online and light dating for years (total Frame Control). Meanwhile, the first DJ who brushes off the friendship requirement scores.

Friendship First = Frame Control / open to AFC FB's

 

[backbreaker]

i'll take it a step father than that.

say you are a 40 year old man who works out, is a catch to be 40 years old. is knee deep in *****. has to walk out the house with his rain boots on.

He meets the available 40 year old woman and she sees 1. he's hot, 2. he's aviable 3. he has ****ing optons. she even probably meet him through one of his conquests.

WTF do you thinks he is going to do? say let's be friends?

okay babe I can take your single ass out to coffee and i can tell you how i'm laying the pipe to all these woman, so she can go home and masterbate to her "friend"

hell no. that's not how it works in the real world.

***** is like a woman's life jacket. when all else fails throw that mother****er out.

you want toget more ass than you can have? Make a woman compete for you.

not fvcking a catch is not an option, becuase one of his options will be giving it up and therefore it's a better option.

 

[window]

When they say friends first it is their way of saying they'd like to take it slow. It doesn't mean it cant happen fast once you actually meet the person for real. By saying no to the standard friends first qusetion you're basically saying you're a man in a hurry without options. I mean if you've connected with a girl over the internet what is wrong with being friends first ? If you are a desirable guy it shouldn't bother you in the slightest as you'll have a circle of girls competing for you attention.

All this stuff about controlling the frame...I mean who cares. If a chick wants to control the frame, whatever. The important point is that you are in control of yourself.

 

[jophil28]

She says," I wants to be friends with a man ." ( Womanspeek= "I want to control the forward motion and its direction. I also do not want a man to think that I am available sexually unless and until I decide that is what I want" )

You reply, " Friends ? Great ! No other expectations right ?
Hey, I always wanted a real girl "Friend". Perhaps you could give me some "friendly" advice about the other women in my life ? "

He resposnse will be priceless.

 

[jonwon]

It is amazing but if you date online

That's your problem.

 

[Sinistar]

ll this stuff about controlling the frame...I mean who cares. If a chick wants to control the frame, whatever. The important point is that you are in control of yourself.

Name just one guy on this entire planet that is "in control of himself" while at the same time the woman completely controls the frame?

It is biologically impossible - a guys primary need is the very thing the woman is withholding. She just has a great socially acceptable handle for it: "Friends First".

 

[squirrels]

A woman who wants to be "friends first" will only get hordes of men pretending to want to be "friends first". Her problem.

Once again, a broad all-encompassing statement. SOME women 35-40 claim to want "friends first", and half of them, what they want and what they THINK they want are two entirely different things. And what they SAY they want is a third thing entirely.

Unfortunately, what you get on a MySpace profile is just what they SAY they want. You want to figure out what she REALLY wants, then you need to put in work.

This is why you don't NEGOTIATE with a woman about what you want out of a relationship. The "where is this going" or "what are we" conversation with a woman is a LOSING PROPOSITION for the man. You just don't have it...and if a woman wants to force it on you, you cut her stupid arse loose.

Backbreaker nailed it above...you CANNOT NEGOTIATE ATTRACTION.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The easy solution to this problem: Meet, approach, read IOIs, hook up with women, IN REAL LIFE!

Online there is no physical urgency, sexual tension or competition anxiety for women. This comfort affords them the opportunity (or at least the perception of it) to casually set the terms for their intimacy that meeting a Man face to face would never allow.

Women use online dating for the same reason guys do - IT'S A BUFFER. The majority of 35+y.o. (see Mature) women KNOW they're past their sexual expiration date. They know that their waning ability to attract & arouse eligible men is a depreciating commodity at best. They will attempt to use ANY method available in order to establish the frame that their fading looks will not merit them otherwise.

Genuine desire is non-negotiable. It happens or it doesn't. Desire is a spontaneous, chemical arousal between people, not a pre-written contract. By placing preconditions on what will or will not qualify for a woman's intimacy, she essentially rules out any chance for genuine, organic desire. Comfort, rapport, familiarity, are all anti-seductive. Sexual tension is uncomfortable; it's supposed to be in order to prompt desire.

Now, all that said, you need to see a "friends first" policy for what it really is; a sh!t test. This is basically a woman wondering if you understand women well enough to know that what she really wants is the contrary of what she's saying, and if you're Alpha enough to act upon that understanding with confidence anyway.

 

[Nutz]

I've been bumping into chicks lately saying the same thing, but they're in their early 30s still, so it's not just the over 35 crowd.

When they say friends first it is their way of saying they'd like to take it slow. It doesn't mean it cant happen fast once you actually meet the person for real. By saying no to the standard friends first qusetion you're basically saying you're a man in a hurry without options. I mean if you've connected with a girl over the internet what is wrong with being friends first ? If you are a desirable guy it shouldn't bother you in the slightest as you'll have a circle of girls competing for you attention.

All this stuff about controlling the frame...I mean who cares. If a chick wants to control the frame, whatever. The important point is that you are in control of yourself.

Agreed. They want to take it slow. My guess is they learned their lessons in their 20s by getting pumped & dumped because that's all they were good for or something. They throw up this barrier both as frame control and as a way of filtering guys for intent. But like Squirrels said all that does is leave them with guys who are playing a game and hiding their real motives. That just leads to problems and these women end up with beta guys that are happy with "friends first" merely taking what they can get.

 

[Jean Valjean]

Whew ... thanks for alerting us ... that was close ... we might have all fallen for it.

Seriously you knob (meant in a good way) - these are just words. As the other posters stated, they are hearing this crap and parroting it right back believing in it like soulmates and all the other programming we know is bunk.

If you ask me, what is at the root of it is not "friendship" or "weeding out guys who just want s3x". Nope. It's covert subtle frame control. These women might be 35-40 but they still want attention, intimacy and security (well the first two are really security for them anyhow).

So what's next. They want to own the frame. By 35-40 most have been in 1 or more failed relationships. They believe that the cure to their happiness is owning the frame. And what better way to own the frame - "friendship first". Or as backbreaker reminded us of RT's words - negotiating intimacy should never be tolerated from a guy who's prime directive is intimacy.

Now, throw a younger guy in with none of that and AFC to boot. She can tool around 20 of these guys online and light dating for years (total Frame Control). Meanwhile, the first DJ who brushes off the friendship requirement scores.

Friendship First = Frame Control / open to AFC FB's

Great post! I believe you.

Problem is that we have to demo high value right to be considered a catch. How do you do that? I'm not George Clooney.
Gess you have to do the best you can with some attitude and read the DJ bible on being a catch.

****y Funny = Role play, tell stories, misinterpret, cold read and be upfront

 

[Jean Valjean]

I've been bumping into chicks lately saying the same thing, but they're in their early 30s still, so it's not just the over 35 crowd.

Agreed. They want to take it slow. My guess is they learned their lessons in their 20s by getting pumped & dumped because that's all they were good for or something. They throw up this barrier both as frame control and as a way of filtering guys for intent. But like Squirrels said all that does is leave them with guys who are playing a game and hiding their real motives. That just leads to problems and these women end up with beta guys that are happy with "friends first" merely taking what they can get.

You can spend alot of time and money on these online LJBF first girls so I can understand where Rollo said meet in live where you can see if there is chemistry right away.

I think this 'friends first' thing is what they are reading as an antedote to the DJ philosophy but whether they act on it is another story if a high interest guy shows up.

 

[Nutz]

You can spend alot of time and money on these online LJBF first girls so I can understand where Rollo said meet in live where you can see if there is chemistry right away.

I think this 'friends first' thing is what they are reading as an antedote to the DJ philosophy but whether they act on it is another story if a high interest guy shows up.

Oh you misunderstand. I don't do online dating. I'm talking about real live women pulling this crap. In my case it's more of them seeing me as the provider and not the sex toy, so they withdraw and want to make me work for it by providing resources. I know better than that and just friend zone them outright when they pull that stunt. It's long-term game that gets them chasing because I'm flipping the script. I go along with it for a week then drop subtle hints about my girlfriend this or another girlfriend that. They get the picture now that I have female friends and they're all starting to think, albeit slowly, that I'm sleeping with all these girl...friends. AFC Adam was a genius when he realized this style of game.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think this 'friends first' thing is what they are reading as an antedote to the DJ philosophy but whether they act on it is another story if a high interest guy shows up.

This is nothing new. Women have been using filibustering tactics for centuries.


Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When women make you wait for sex, you are not their highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck you like a porn star and wait patiently inside your closet when your wife/GF comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first is the same girl who fukked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she'll ƒuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

 

[Sinistar]

Problem is that we have to demo high value right to be considered a catch. How do you do that?

You follow RT's advice - you do it for real, in person where you can really be rejected. The best you'll get online to demo high value would be great looking pictures and tell them you're a doctor. Even then it's no substitute for meeting them in person.

Also, you said "demo". Demo sounds to me like you're faking it. You have to be the real deal. A good (AFC) buddy I mention often "demos" value. He is always wondering why they walk away after date 1 or 2. And at best 6mo into a relationship they have their answer. With women, you probably have more leeway than you think, but they are masters of judging actions vs words when it comes to men vs MEN.

 

[Mr. Me]

It's not all that complicated. "Friends first" is the woman either:

A. Establishing her "out" in the event it turns out she meets you and doesn't like what she sees.

B. The last several guys have gone too fast, overwhelmed her with their romantic overtures and claims of falling in love. She wants guys to go slow, not rush her, so she says "friends first" or

C. Some people actually have the erroneous notion that better relationships come out of friendships, because someone they know is [allegedly] happily married for 17 years to someone who was their friend first.

It's not about frames or anything else. But I will say this Valjean:

If you're telling them that you're going to do the romance thing, and you've either not met them yet or barely know them, as you have indicated:

If you let them know in person or by email that you want romance first they say no thanks.

Then of course they're going to shoot you down (unless they're literally needy for affection). You're basically telling them that you're one of those guys that will show up with flowers in hand on the first date, write love poems, slobber all over them, call them 100 times a day... and stalk them when they eventually dump you. Even if you're not that guy, THAT'S what you're signaling to them when you say you want "romance first".

As soon as I turn into a sexual being they say sorry I need a friend first.

That's not their fault. It's you.

I don't know what you mean by "sexual" in this context. For some guys, it simply means they are masculine, confident and smooth. For others, it means they speak lewdly and stare and grope at their dates. But know this: though women say they desire romance, and they do, women only want romantic or sexual overtures from the men they want them from, and that, when they're ready for them.

You haven't gotten women to that point. My guess is you move too fast. These online girls have 100s of guys hitting on them and they have their guards up to every Tom, D1ck and Harry who wants a lay.

And that's why they're writing: "Friends first".