Alcoholism

[Scars]

Another simple question of which came first, the egg or the chicken?

Does drinking alcohol make you depressed, or do depressed people drink alcohol?

Your thoughts?

-Scars

 

[Deep Dish]

It's established that alcohol destroys the prefrontal cortex of your brain where you make decisions and depletes your serotonin. Scientific research is mixed whether it's the chicken or the egg but:

ScienceDaily (Mar. 7, 2009) — A statistical modeling study suggests that problems with alcohol abuse may lead to an increased risk of depression, as opposed to the reverse model in which individuals with depression self-medicate with alcohol, according to a report in the March issue of Archives of General Psychiatry, one of the JAMA/Archives journals.

A number of epidemiological studies have shown that alcohol abuse or dependence is associated with major depression, according to background information in the article. However, it has previously been unclear whether one disorder causes the other, or whether a common underlying genetic or environmental risk factor increases risk for both.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090302183002.htm​

 

[backbreaker]

Im I spent the better part of half a decade in AA so this is a hot button topic for me.

to put it simply; it' snot that cut and dry.

The first and foremost thing you need to understand about alcoholism is that it is very much hereditary. IN other words, a better way to state is that, there are people who are walking around today that are alcoholics and wouldn't have the slightest clue beucase they don't drink.

This is a conversation that is much too complex for this one post so bare with me... the avg person is, because of their makeup, family history, genetics, and so on and so forth, are predestined to become addicted to particular drugs. not so much A drug.

In other words, I was a cocaine, before i ever snorted/cooked crack. When I say, it literally, took one hit fo rme to be addicted, there was no build up. none. lol. i knew the second i hit it the very first time i was done. I've seen, hundreds of stone cold lights out have to have a 6 pack to get out of bed alcoholics, i've even sponsered af ew, and none of them got there because they were that depressed.

but with some drugs, like alcohol, i can very much take it or leave it. We have about 300-400 dollars of various alcohol in the house right now and it's the last thing on my mind. I'm not a heavy drinker, I never will be a heavy drinker, even when i used drugs i wasn't a heavy drinker. Drinking doesn't do it for me.

and i've done more than coke. i've popped pills. not my thing. i've tired H. not my thing. i don't like the way it makes me feel. I'm not a drug addict, i'm addicted to cocaine. I have not had so much as a sniff of coke/crack in almost 8 years and if i went out and had some tonight i'd be right back where i was 8 years ago, zero questions asked.

So it's not so much about being depressed or not being depressed, a more accurate analogy is playing Russian roulette, with different drugs.. coke, meth, alcohol, pills, and every time you spin the barrel, and pull, you are taking a chance.. is this the drug for me. for me it was coke. I did not know this at that time, but i have/had 3 intermediate family members all on my dad's side of my family who battled crack cocaine addictions.. one lived across the country so i didn't' know about it, one had died before i was too old to find out and one just did a erally good job of hiding it from everyone. Had i known that, maybe i would not have done it. but i did so **** it lol. for some it's nothing. i know some people the first time they took a drink = couldn't stop. I know a girl who was 35 and had done not hing more than tote a blunt from now and then and within 6 months of taking her first drop of alcohol, had shot her self in the stomach and tried to kill herself she had fell so far down. perfectly sane woman, secretary at an insurance farm, drove a lexus, stone cold alcoholic, hard core alcoholic, had no clue.

on the other hand, i've sat and wathed with my own 2 eyes more than once someone take a 20 dollar rock put it on a crack pipe, hit it, smoke everywhere and they say.. meh this isn't for me lol. i'm like WTF man that was a killer hit

that's why to me the biggest mistake people make is they eventually beat the drug or whatever , alcoholism, and then they hide it from everyone. talk about that ****. if i got 2-3 family memers that are alcohlics that's some **** i need to know.


Now, i'm not saying depressed people don't drink, but if you have the bug, depressed aint' got **** to do with it lol. i know quite a few stone cold happy alcoholics. there is never gonna be a day where the bug guy can drink normally beucase he's addicted to it.

now, i have a rule of thumb..; i don't drink alone and i don't drink if i am in a ****ty mood. While i'm not an alcoholic, if i get tipsy and get drunk my mind starts coming up with **** and lord knows where i will be lol. but i can drink normally with no issue whatsoever.

 

[Gaucho]

Does drinking alcohol make you depressed, or do depressed people drink alcohol?

Your thoughts?

-Scars

From my perspective, drinking makes me depressed, rather than vice-versa. But not before I get an incredible high, far greater than a high I can get off any other drug.

But yep, alcoholism is in my family. My uncle used to say "if they bred alcoholics like race horses, you and your brother would be champion thoroughbreads"! It runs in my family like a bad compulsion.

The high I get off it isn't even that much these days, but I am always fighting the urge to have a drink, even though I know logically I would rather not drink. That is a true alcoholic, when it is a compulsion.

 

[Down Low]

I drank because I was depressed.

The various aches and pains of chronic injuries I accumulated over life got me to prefer alcohol as my bedtime analgesic. However, my long association with my ex psycho cluster b1tch got me more and more depressed to the point I was suicidal and couldn't function at all. I drank to distract my mind, to not feel pain so sharply from her emotional abuse. I got up to averaging somewhere around 10 a night. Towards the end I'd do a 12-pack many nights and run off to get more before the stores closed. (Yeah I could drive drunk no problem ever.) Even when my liver hurt bad and I needed a night off, her mouth would push me to drink and further damage myself.

I stopped drinking when I was just too broke to afford it. For a few days there was a little stress, but not the kind of itching to drink I expected after several years of daily drinking. So I never became an alcoholic. I never drank to prevent being sober. I can handle sober reality fine. It was the b1tch that depressed me, not the alcohol.

 

[OzyBoy]

I would drink a little bit if i was depressed but only a couple of drinks to calm me down.

 

[PRMoon]

I love alcoholic beverages but not for the effect they have on me. I love the taste of a good bourbon, whiskey, scotch, irish whiskey, cognac, etc. I like a wide variety of beers as well. I drink with company, coworkers, socially and sometimes alone with a book or watching the game. I don't have crazy college like binge drinking sessions as I'm in my 30's and it's really rare for me to drink during the week aside from a single beer with dinner occasionally but since I'm in the desert, I'm more prone to have water (keeps the sin looking nice). I don't do anything to excess anymore besides work though. I've an addictive personality but I just applied it to the thing I want the most, a successful career. Wasn't always that way though.

I use to drink all the time for no other reason then to be drinking. I worked in night life insustry so drugs and alcohol were around myself and my friends all the time. We didn't care what it was we were doing it. Sometimes I'd wake up and not remember the night before. Very destructive lifestyle which was leading to nowhere. I honestly think maturity had a lot to do with me getting past my addiction. Goal setting, discipline, concern for health and well being, once you get that kind of mindset beating vices is easy.

 

[Scars]

All interesting thoughts guys. The only reason I ask is because I've become quite the drinker myself. I can put down a 12 pack every night, and on weekends I usually get an 18 pack or end up at a buddies house and I smash through anywhere from 12-20 beers, and of course Sunday night football = more drinking. Everyone thinks it's a phase I only turned 21 just recently, and I drank quite a bit after that, but I don't think I took it as hardcore as I did until I started dating my BPD ex. I can relate like the rest of you, I had to drink while I was dating her just to deal with her (I even told her that several times), then when I broke it off, I had to drink even more just to forget everything.

The thing is, now I am completely over her. I really don't think I have a horrible life or anything, I'm actually quite happy, but I never stopped drinking. I like to drink with company, but I'm guilty of drinking by myself as well. It just makes activities more fun for me. Even if I'm just watching tv/sports, playing xbox, reading a book or whatever.. I rationalize with the fact that it helps me sleep (it does) then once I get a strong buzz I usually cook myself a nice big meal then fall asleep. I never get out of hand or depressed really. I'm by no means an angry drinker, and whenever I go out people generally enjoy drinking with me.

I'm also picky about the people I drink with when I do go out. The people I enjoy most drinking with are like me, they drink a lot, sometimes a lone, but they're funny, chill and lively. So now I'm not sure whether depressed people drink, or drinking makes you depressed. Maybe it's a combination of both.

I agree with the "drinking gene", as my father, uncle, and grandpa were all pretty heavy drinkers. But I never saw them depressed. Ever. Maybe they just hid it from people? I don't know.

-Scars

 

[Gaucho]

All interesting thoughts guys. The only reason I ask is because I've become quite the drinker myself. I can put down a 12 pack every night, and on weekends I usually get an 18 pack or end up at a buddies house and I smash through anywhere from 12-20 beers, and of course Sunday night football = more drinking. Everyone thinks it's a phase I only turned 21 just recently, and I drank quite a bit after that, but I don't think I took it as hardcore as I did until I started dating my BPD ex. I can relate like the rest of you, I had to drink while I was dating her just to deal with her (I even told her that several times), then when I broke it off, I had to drink even more just to forget everything.

The thing is, now I am completely over her. I really don't think I have a horrible life or anything, I'm actually quite happy, but I never stopped drinking. I like to drink with company, but I'm guilty of drinking by myself as well. It just makes activities more fun for me. Even if I'm just watching tv/sports, playing xbox, reading a book or whatever.. I rationalize with the fact that it helps me sleep (it does) then once I get a strong buzz I usually cook myself a nice big meal then fall asleep. I never get out of hand or depressed really. I'm by no means an angry drinker, and whenever I go out people generally enjoy drinking with me.

I'm also picky about the people I drink with when I do go out. The people I enjoy most drinking with are like me, they drink a lot, sometimes a lone, but they're funny, chill and lively. So now I'm not sure whether depressed people drink, or drinking makes you depressed. Maybe it's a combination of both.

I agree with the "drinking gene", as my father, uncle, and grandpa were all pretty heavy drinkers. But I never saw them depressed. Ever. Maybe they just hid it from people? I don't know.

-Scars

You sound a lot like me in my 20s. Now I'm in my 30s and it has become much much harder to stop even for a few weeks. I think your relatives just hid the depressed state from you. I don't get anywhere near suicidal or to the point people can see I'm depressed, but when I have big nights of drinking, I can walk out in the sun on a beautiful day and just feel completely in a haze, which now generally lasts for a few days in a row. It's not a good feeling. I never had it when I was in my 20s.

Drinking made everything more fun for me, which is why I used to do it. But eventually, that turned into the compulsion to do it even though I knew it was having negative affects on my life.

I also only enjoy drinking with other mates who are big drinkers. Judgemental people who only have a couple of beers and don't enjoy the rant, deep and meaningful conversations and roudiness that come with drinking, bore me.

One thing I never did though is drink because of a woman. But then again, I've been lucky enough to meet a beautiful and respectful woman since my early 20s, so I haven't had to put up with the scorne of a bad woman since then. That said, even after like a decade with the woman, drinking has come to the absolute precipise of breaking us up. One time she left me for months because of it. Which was really a wake up call. I have tried numerous times to quit, including seeing councellors and I generally have incredible will power with everthing that I do. I definately don't drink to the same extent I used to though, but I still do for the release it provides me after a hectic week of work. If I could get xanex here, I would probably take a tablet of that once a week for the same result. But it's hard to get in Australia. I was once subscribed it to deal with the anxiety of coming off drinking etc, but instead of using it daily as I was meant too, I only used it once a week for a release, to calm the nerves. It made a huge difference, stopped my drinking and the 50 tablets lasted me 2 months. Needless to say, the doctors stopped giving it to me because it can become 'addictive', so I returned to the bottle. I sure know which one is more addictive and destructive!

 

[Scars]

Thanks for the input Mauser, I honestly think my body would go into shock if I just stopped suddenly. I've never really read to much on the subject, or obviously never went to an AA meeting but I'm wondering.. I see all these "No Fap Challenge" threads etc, and I'm wondering if I just did something similar where I only allowed myself to drink 1-2 beers a night maybe with my dinner or something. They say a beer a day is actually good for you, and that seems a little more tangible than quitting cold turkey. I'd imagine an expert would probably say this is me just rationalizing my addiction to myself, but this goal seems a lot more achievable to me.

-Scars

 

[Deep Dish]

There were years during my twenties when I slipped down the insidiously slippery slope from casual social drinking towards alcoholism, and consequently I have two arrests for DUI. It’s been three years, almost to the day, since my most recent arrest and I have been able to turn my life around, but the biggest reason has been my controversial embrace of marijuana.

People will argue that it’s replacing one drug with another, or a crutch, but the goal is harm reduction, not risk aversion. Marijuana is a proven “exit drug” away from hard drugs like beer. Alcoholics who smoke pot perform equally if not better than normal people in alcohol counseling and have longer sobriety, because marijuana provides a better high and protects your brain cells from damage by alcohol.

I now rarely ever drink. To quote Allen St. Pierre, executive director of NORML, “In the twenty years I’ve worked at NORML and convening dozens of major pro-reform conferences, fundraising parties and events I’ve watched bar managers, restaurant owners and hotel catering managers from coast-to-coast do major double and triple takes on our alcohol consumption bills, insisting that there must be some kind of billing error. When, in fact, if 500 cannabis consumers are attending a NORML soiree, we as a group consume 50%-75% less alcohol than similar size events.”

 

[Bible_Belt]

we as a group consume 50%-75% less alcohol

Which of course is one of the many reasons why pot is illegal. Scars is in Arizona, where any detectable amount of weed is a felony, and the pipe you smoke it in is another felony.

On a side note, weed and coffee are the two best things for repairing liver damage from alcohol.

 

[betheman]

Mauser, how much were you drinking? from your experiences its sounds like a hell of a lot

 

[Deep Dish]

Scars is in Arizona, where any detectable amount of weed is a felony, and the pipe you smoke it in is another felony.

That’s so draconian. It’s certainly more than enough to give anyone a long moment to pause, although it should be mentioned that it’s easy to never get caught. The three biggest mistakes which land people into jail are smoking in public, keeping their stash or paraphernalia in their car, and dealing to their friends. Be discreet, always stay at home, always remain the customer, transport only when necessary, don’t home grow, don’t fit a profile, and the chances of discovery are slim.

 

[backbreaker]

Thanks for the input Mauser, I honestly think my body would go into shock if I just stopped suddenly. I've never really read to much on the subject, or obviously never went to an AA meeting but I'm wondering.. I see all these "No Fap Challenge" threads etc, and I'm wondering if I just did something similar where I only allowed myself to drink 1-2 beers a night maybe with my dinner or something. They say a beer a day is actually good for you, and that seems a little more tangible than quitting cold turkey. I'd imagine an expert would probably say this is me just rationalizing my addiction to myself, but this goal seems a lot more achievable to me.

if i were a betting man, i would go even money that in 10 years you aty our current rate will be a full blown alcoholic. not beucase i don't like you, acutally you are one of the guys i like ere, but your story/ rationale is right on the alcoholic train.

alcohol takes longer to hook people like hard drugs do. it's a lot easier to be a functioning alcoholic than a functioning crack head or meth addict.

i want you to seriously do this. 2 things

first, i want you to read this pdf chapter cover to cover


http://www.aasouthafrica.org.za/Portals/0/docs/Part_02/They_Stopped_in_Time9_%2859k%29.pdf



secondly, i want you to go out and buy a 36 pack of beer. i want you to put one in the frig a day and only drink half a can of beer and leave the rest for 2 months. not a drop more than half a beer, and no other alcoholic drink whatsoever

if you can honestly do this for 2 months, forgot anything i am telling you.

if you can't do that, or the thought of doing that seems to much, you need to take your ass to an AA meeting.

I don't even go to AA anymore but that's a personal choice. however AA works. I hope you aren't an alcoholic, AA is a ibg commitment that will take 5-10 hours a week at least out of your schedule and that's time that canb e better spent, but if you are an alcoholic it will save your life.

I sponsored about 8 people in AA, and 4 of them are still clean to this day, if you ever need to talk to anyone pm me instantly. pm me and i will give you my email as well

 

[Married Buried]

That’s so draconian. It’s certainly more than enough to give anyone a long moment to pause, although it should be mentioned that it’s easy to never get caught. The three biggest mistakes which land people into jail are smoking in public, keeping their stash or paraphernalia in their car, and dealing to their friends. Be discreet, always stay at home, always remain the customer, transport only when necessary, don’t home grow, don’t fit a profile, and the chances of discovery are slim.

The law is a joke. It has reduced me to buying the synthetic weed. I bought enough to last me a lifetime. I used to smoke alot of the real weed. The new synthetic blends are stronger than the real stuff. One or 2 hits gets you baked for hours and I bought a pound for 2 hundred bucks. Basically a lifetime supply.

 

[Deep Dish]

The law is a joke. It has reduced me to buying the synthetic weed. I bought enough to last me a lifetime. I used to smoke alot of the real weed. The new synthetic blends are stronger than the real stuff. One or 2 hits gets you baked for hours and I bought a pound for 2 hundred bucks. Basically a lifetime supply.

Just like bathtub gin was to alcohol prohibition, synthetic cannabinoids are the byproduct of prohibition leading people to use more dangerous intoxicants. In fact, the very act of smoking weed is itself a byproduct because, before prohibition, people didn’t smoke it. It was all baked goods.

Be careful. Every synthetic strain is chemically novel, you really have no idea what prolonged exposure is doing to your body, and tolerance builds precipitously fast.

 

[Married Buried]

Just like bathtub gin was to alcohol prohibition, synthetic cannabinoids are the byproduct of prohibition leading people to use more dangerous intoxicants. In fact, the very act of smoking weed is itself a byproduct because, before prohibition, people didn’t smoke it. It was all baked goods.

Be careful. Every synthetic strain is chemically novel, you really have no idea what prolonged exposure is doing to your body, and tolerance builds precipitously fast.

Here is a study saying the JWH chemical (synthetic weed) is fairly safe. As for the tolerance, I only do it once or twice a week.

http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/

 

[backbreaker]

I REPLIED in bold above



By all means reduce, and do it NOW!! Get down to one or two per day. THEN, I would keep a log, from that point forward. I am not kidding. Because if you don't? I guarantee you will find that creeping up. Instead of 14 per week, a Friday night with the boys adds 8, a stressful day might add a few extra that day. Keep a log! LIMIT to 14 per week, if that is what you decide..
For ME? I tried the above, for YEARS. Always found an excuse to have just a couple more on a bad day,........and would "make up for it" which I never did.

Good Luck, and if you need more advice, PM me anytime.

that's the thing. if he really is an alcoholic this is imopssible. lol if i could control my crack use i never would have quit lol. if i coul sit down and smoke an eight ball while watching college football and drinking scotch i would be doing that right now. i can't.

the thinking in itself is alcoholic thinking; you are rationalizing something you dont' want to give up.

in other words, as stated, i've never in my life been an alcoholic. when i went into NA/AA... they told me that you have to clean from all mind altering substances, even alcohol.

even though I knew i had never been an alcoholic, i didn't bat one eye, i said okay that's fine. i dont' care lol. i don't have to have alcohol, i can go out and just as well order a virgin strawberry daquiri as i could order a 7 and 7.

IN short, people who can drink 1-2-3 drinks a week and get away with it, don't have to try to limit their drinking.. that's just what they drink.

 

[Down Low]

A marijuana user must smoke frequently to maintain sufficient blood concentration of the drug to be able to feel a buzz from its use. In doing so, the user gets high frequently. So marijuana users immediately develop the classic behavioral pattern of chronic drug abuse. To me, this is the most troublesome aspect of marijuana.

Some years ago, the typical dope that young people could get was of low potency. So they bought a lot and smoked it over and over again, all day, every day. Basically, they'd stay high all the time. Whenever a guy would get into marijuana, he'd change. His thoughts and actions would become more and more undependable, irrational, and incoherent. Then of course, his breath, body, clothing, home, and effects would stink same as do smokers of tobacco or crack.

A chronic drug abuser isn't hot 'n sexy. Rather, he stinks, he's difficult, and he's slow to understand what others are saying.

As I understand, pot has become more potent over the years to match the needs of its consumers. The morning crew at the taco shop can have a giggle party in a car before each shift, and that's enough. It still doesn't change the character of marijuana as being a chronic drug rather than a recreational one.

If you need a chronic mood-altering drug to get through your days, what you really need is to change your life. Smoking dope is just burying your head in the sand. I should know -- I did the same thing with beer for years.