After 34 years, I finally found an article worth reading by a woman

[Falcon25]

http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi_500/508_first-date-sex-why-you-should-pass.html

Disclosure; This is for those who are seeking a LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP with a woman.

This girl has it spot on. I completely agree. Sex is the pinnacle of a relationship. If done early, she will walk. If you are interested in a woman for long term and want to keep her, you have to fuvk her emotionally first. I recommend making HER WAIT. Of course, you should still make out with the girl and everything. I wish all our members knew how devastating it is for a relationship to have sex be involved early on. If she is a good woman, don't let early fuvking drive her off. Has happened to me many times.

 

[Blues]

What if you sleep with the girl after a few dates?

Is that considered too fast?

 

[Falcon25]

What if you sleep with the girl after a few dates?

Is that considered too fast?

I don't think there's a specific number you should strive for. The ANTICIPATION of sex to a woman is very, very strong. The more you take it slow, the more she starts hitting the gas, which is where you want to be. Even if two months goes by, she will still want it more than you. You can never take it too slow with women, as long as you are intimate though. If you don't make out or whatever you will be friendzoned. Just withold the sex, make her want it more than you. You will be amazed at how crazy she will fall for you. You can never go too slow with women who are interested in you.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Falcon,
The girls that make you wait,lose their Libido the earliest,it is probably at a low level anyway....There are always exceptions,but if there is no action by the third Date,start thinking about baling out.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

All this article does is reinforce the feminine as the primary sexual interest. Every point she makes presumes the woman is the PRIZE.

Waiting Creates Anticipation
Anticipation is already present from the moment you and she feel arousal for each other. Attraction isn't a choice, and anticipation isn't "created".

Waiting Creates Challenge
Yeah, for you. I love how the feminine rationale is that it's the Man who's given the opportunity of creating the challenge, when in fact it's classically been a woman's realm for millennia to play the coquette. Who the ƒuck are we bullsh!tting here?

Waiting Shows You Don’t Think She’s A Slut
The only gender concerned with being perceived as a slut is women. Once again, feminine primacy. Every man loves a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut. The importance is less about his perception of her being a slut and more about her self-concern about thinking she's one.

Waiting Keeps YOU Interested.
And again, feminine primacy. For centuries, nothing has served women better than an implied promise of future sexual release with her. The longer you stay in a state of suspended sexual interest, the less time and opportunity you'll have to weight other, better options than what she may represent.

Waiting Shows You’re A Gentleman
Qualification for her pussie. Women don't want to ƒuck gentlemen, they want to ƒuck Men who are sexual and have an expressed desire to bang her.

Waiting Gives You Time To Evaluate Her
The only thing most men are evaluating about a woman they haven't slept with is HOW to sleep with her. This may sound like logic, but it's really an unassailable ideal that compliments a man's ego. It's complimentary; of course you're a well rounded man of the world who'd be interested in qualifying her for your intimacy, you know what's best for you, right? Women ALWAYS play by the rules and show you their true colors while you're waiting to ƒuck them. They're incapable of hiding their character flaws in the time it takes for you to wait her out sexually, right?

Good Things Come To Those Who Wait
And finally we get down to brass tacks. She is the PRIZE. The carrot really is worth the effort of towing the feminine primacy cart. Play her filibuster games and there's a nice piece of chocolate cake at the end of it for you. It's the same piece of cake the outlaw biker got about 8 months ago due to her hormonally fueled urgency to ƒuck him immediately, but she's turning over a new leaf with you. She's trying to do things different now with you, because you're 'special'.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

This is the nuts and bolts of it; ALL women (yes, I said "ALL") presume that social dynamics should ALWAYS default to a feminine imperative. In essences everyone, male or female, should agree with any social dynamic that benefits the feminine. Without even an afterthought you are cast into what would benefit a feminine frame and a female ideal. To the feminine mind (of both women and feminized men) this is just the way the world is.

 

[azanon]

RT's dead on Falcon. 726 posts, 5 greens, and you're posting that garbage? I realize you mean well, but you're missing the essential essence of DJ'ing.

 

[Mike32ct]

I like Falcon (no homo) and agree with 99.9 percent of his stuff, but after hearing both sides of the argument I'm a bit on the fence here.

I agree that for an LTR waiting a bit for sex might make that first experience together hotter due to anticipation.

But I also agree with RT about the "special" guy who gets to wait versus the bad boy biker who fawks her asap. That has always bothered me. Is that "relationship guy" really so "special" if she makes him wait? Call me cynical, but it makes it sound like sex with the relationship guy is a sort of chore to her and low priority.

Now if she wants to get physical quickly and you choose to make HER wait, to increase anticipation, fine. But if she makes you wait, I'm concerned it could be a power move and/or marginal attraction.

 

[st_99]

I would tend to agree that more often than not "first" date sex is
probably not a good idea if you are looking for LTR.

BUT, soon after I don't think it matters. You don't need to give it weeks or months or anything silly like that.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will find a way to ƒuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first, or needs to be comfortable with you, is the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she'll ƒuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek, you need to go back to square one and start afresh.

Spontaneous, near-immediate sex is the best indicator of high interest - and yes, even for potential LTRs. I wouldn't even consider an LTR with a woman who's so inhibited, or her arousal is so mitigated by an agenda, that she CAN control herself with me. I want REAL, genuine, can't-keep-her-hands-off-me, lets ƒuck right here in the car, sexual urgency. I want a woman who's so into me she'll break her own rules, and defy any 'real' convictions she might have in order to ƒuck me. THAT is the sincerest display of desire. Any woman telling you that waiting for her pussie is the "right way" to go about it is selling you something.

 

[DropZone3]

By the way Rollo, where can we get the rest of the Iron rule list. I think I found two so far. I would love to read the rest.

 

[Colossus]

EDIT-

After reading that article, I'm going to reprise my post and side with Falcon here. I have had many first-night lays, some of them went on to relationships. Every girl that I fvcked right away---hot as it may have been at the time---never panned out to be a good relationship. Things get messed up from the beginning...you're trying to learn about each other but it's confounded by sex all the time. You kind of assume you have some compatibility because you fvck but in reality that's all it's built on.

Sex should NEVER be a negotiation nor should you ever have to plead for it---this implies unequal desire or an attempt at leverage. Just use good judgment--if you feel like she making you 'earn' some prize, hit the old dusty trail.

 

[Nemic]

By the way Rollo, where can we get the rest of the Iron rule list. I think I found two so far. I would love to read the rest.

It doesn't exist. RT only posts them when relevant to a thread at hand. From what I gather, he doesn't want it to be some 'list' of items that you read and forget when you read the next one, and after reading the book of pook, and much of the DJ Bible, I agree with.

on topic: Sex is just a physical act. The quality of the sex is IMO determined by the combination of how physical it is, and how emotional it is. I don't see the point in making either side wait for it. Its a key dynamic in a relationship. The only thing I agree with is making sure she isn't batsh|t insane and goes down the "we are a couple now that we slept together" route.

 

[squirrels]

All this article does is reinforce the feminine as the primary sexual interest. Every point she makes presumes the woman is the PRIZE.

Waiting Creates Anticipation
Anticipation is already present from the moment you and she feel arousal for each other. Attraction isn't a choice, and anticipation isn't "created".

Waiting Creates Challenge
Yeah, for you. I love how the feminine rationale is that it's the Man who's given the opportunity of creating the challenge, when in fact it's classically been a woman's realm for millennia to play the coquette. Who the ƒuck are we bullsh!tting here?

Waiting Shows You Don’t Think She’s A Slut
The only gender concerned with being perceived as a slut is women. Once again, feminine primacy. Every man loves a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut. The importance is less about his perception of her being a slut and more about her self-concern about thinking she's one.

Waiting Keeps YOU Interested.
And again, feminine primacy. For centuries, nothing has served women better than an implied promise of future sexual release with her. The longer you stay in a state of suspended sexual interest, the less time and opportunity you'll have to weight other, better options than what she may represent.

Waiting Shows You’re A Gentleman
Qualification for her pussie. Women don't want to ƒuck gentlemen, they want to ƒuck Men who are sexual and have an expressed desire to bang her.

Waiting Gives You Time To Evaluate Her
The only thing most men are evaluating about a woman they haven't slept with is HOW to sleep with her. This may sound like logic, but it's really an unassailable ideal that compliments a man's ego. It's complimentary; of course you're a well rounded man of the world who'd be interested in qualifying her for your intimacy, you know what's best for you, right? Women ALWAYS play by the rules and show you their true colors while you're waiting to ƒuck them. They're incapable of hiding their character flaws in the time it takes for you to wait her out sexually, right?

Good Things Come To Those Who Wait
And finally we get down to brass tacks. She is the PRIZE. The carrot really is worth the effort of towing the feminine primacy cart. Play her filibuster games and there's a nice piece of chocolate cake at the end of it for you. It's the same piece of cake the outlaw biker got about 8 months ago due to her hormonally fueled urgency to ƒuck him immediately, but she's turning over a new leaf with you. She's trying to do things different now with you, because you're 'special'.

LOL...Rollo, par for the course, nails it.

As soon as I saw this...

If you enjoy the main prize of sex on a first date, you’re starting the process back to front.

...I stopped reading and went into skim-mode.

This is THE MAIN REASON that 50% of marriages in postmodern western society end in DIVORCE...the idea that SEX, of all things, is the "main prize".

Nonono...it may work that way for neanderthals, but a civilized, intelligent person demands more of his/her partner than just a good romp in the sack. (although that's an important part of it) Get the sex out of the way NOW. Maybe not first-date, but second or third. Get it out of the way.

Once you've "hit it" and gotten the notch out of the way, THEN you can focus on whether you really want to spend TIME with this person beyond the time you share a bed together.

Waiting Gives You Time To Evaluate Her
The only thing most men are evaluating about a woman they haven't slept with is HOW to sleep with her.

This is 100% correct. Most women think that by refraining from sexing a guy that's only interested in her for sex, they can force him to stay around long enough for their "other good traits" to seduce him into staying.

The thing is...if those "other good traits" really existed, they would show REGARDLESS of sex...you wouldn't have to dangle the p*ssy like a carrot on a string to lead a man into a trap. By the same virtue, if a girl DOESN'T have anything to offer but her p*ssy, the weak men will indeed allow themselves to be strung along...until they finally get to "hit it". Then, once the mystique is gone, he will be out the door just as quickly.

The STRONG men don't buy that crap. If a woman is interested in stringing him along, she's obviously manipulating him because her "other virtues" are too weak to maintain his interest. He passes, preferring either high-caliber women he can relate to or casual slvts who make no pretense about their desire to enjoy sex.

Most women, deep down, know this. So instead of hoping to lure men with their inadequate charms, they string the "carrot" out all the way to the trap...marriage. They use it like a cage...and then they wonder why they have to see a therapist because "things aren't going well".

You CANNOT win over any man or woman with half a brain solely through the use of sex. This article is advocating Cosmo-style manipulative tactics for men.

And that is why women STILL have no place writing in a men's magazine/website, and why anything on AskMen should be taken with a grain of salt and a dose of testosterone.

Falcon, I hate to say it, but there's something more driving these women off than just "early sex". Either they're neurotic about the sex (which means you'd be sexually miserable in an LTR with them), or you're just not giving them reason enough to stay once THEY have gotten THEIRS.

Rollo said something else very profound...women, in their "feminization", their desire to claim the dominant role, have failed to fulfill their responsibility as the "coquettish" side of the male-female dynamic. It's the male's place to pursue, the female's place to resist and eventually be wooed/conquered.

This "dance" is lost on most modern women...they blame the MEN for being too sexual, where it's THEIR fault for not knowing the art of "LMR". Women think in binary terms with sex these days...there's no effeminate shyness, no "giving a little", it's either she's DTF or she's an outright prude.

And now suddenly it's the man's part to play both his OWN role AND the "anticipation/resistance" role as well? So what's the woman there for, then??

No...this is another retarded feminist article abdicating responsibility from all women and placing it on men.

 

[st_99]

Always an interesting discussion but I still feel like banging a chick on
the very FIRST night you meet her is not what should be happening if
its going to turn into a LTR.

 

[backbreaker]

I have over the years developed a sort of personal guide line. Generally women who I know we aren't going to last, I want to **** at the restaurant table if you let me. That's all she can reallyy provide so let's get it on.

It's tricker with a LTR girl. You wnat to evl her, but if you wait too long the spark is gone and, you have to establish that this is a sexual relationship even if it is. She expected to have sex that night I could tell. Myt first real GF as an adult, first date went to chili's, back to my place, kissed tookher home.

next date, play, shoot pool, back to my place, she even got butt naked, i played with her and instead of going always the way Instead, honestly i just wasn't really feeling it, dropped her off at home. ****ed her head completely up. Again, by accident. My oneitis at the time was laying it on thick and I thought I had a chance with her and really was just going through the motions this night. I didn't want to "cheat" on my oneitis.

After that we went on a double date with her sister (who was 3 years older and just as hot, personal trainer actually) and my best friend, just had fun and took her back home. Didn't even try to make a move, i wasn't trying to not make a move I just didn't my friends were with me. I think even i brought mjy little cousin.

Next day she came over my house just kinda randomly and i was quite horny, and by that time she was happy as a punk in the pin to get it on.

we ****ed pretty much, like.. at least 6 times the next 3 days. She wanted it.

I did that, completely by accident. I'm not a mad genus or anything. But it works. not confuse them, but establish a sexual base, then make them wonder.

my now fiancee, first date, took he4r to hte beach. I was somewhat aggressive, we kissed a few times. Next date we went to a BBQ of her friends she invited me to on the 4th of july, fire works I held her and we were pretty affectionate, but nothing too serious.

third date we went to go see a movie. she came back to my place, I took off her shirt and played with her breasts for a while.

The next date she just came over to watch TV, I told her I had to get up early(i did actually) just went to bed.

the next date, I had planned to go one more date teasing somewhat but she wasn't having it. She basically said look, I want to **** you, we are going to have sex and you are going to like it lol. I was like okay, the point had been made.

IN reality both, the first and the second, were just try9ing to reaffirm their attraction level in my eyes, how i view them. Amber (first girl) did so by always being around and hoping I'd make a move. Millie (fiancee) is more aggressive and basically told me to **** or get off the pot.

Time frame for both, was like 3 weeks to a month from start to finish.

 

[jophil28]

This "dance" is lost on most modern women...they blame the MEN for being too sexual, where it's THEIR fault for not knowing the art of "LMR". Women think in binary terms with sex these days...there's no effeminate shyness, no "giving a little", it's either she's DTF or she's an outright prude.

And now suddenly it's the man's part to play both his OWN role AND the "anticipation/resistance" role as well? So what's the woman there for, then??

No...this is another retarded feminist article abdicating responsibility from all women and placing it on men.

Great point- and once again Squirrels has shone some light in another dark corner of modern women's deterioration as sexully sophisticated adults.

 

[zekko]

Lol, there seems to be some disagreement about this one.

I agree with Falcon. There's a difference between a ONS and a LTR.
You don't want to "shoot your wad" all in the first night. Play it out more, create anticipation. It's about creating anticipation in HER, not in you. It's flipping the script on her in some respects.

As long as you keep the escalation moving forward you retain the male role. You just slow down the pace. You wouldn't want to get on top of her and blow your load immediately, would you? That's being a bad lover. This is a similar principle. There was a line in a Clint Eastwood movie I saw recently, this girl jumped on top of him and was kissing him frantically. He said "Slow down, we have all of our lives to enjoy each other". "All of our lives" is a bit of hyperbole, but you have more time to stretch things out in a LTR, slow down and enjoy things. Not just jump on her and hump her leg like a horny chiuaua, game over.

 

[Jamo]

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will find a way to ƒuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first, or needs to be comfortable with you, is the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

Spontaneous, near-immediate sex is the best indicator of high interest - and yes, even for potential LTRs. I wouldn't even consider an LTR with a woman who's so inhibited, or her arousal is so mitigated by an agenda, that she CAN control herself with me. I want REAL, genuine, can't-keep-her-hands-off-me, lets ƒuck right here in the car, sexual urgency. I want a woman who's so into me she'll break her own rules, and defy any 'real' convictions she might have in order to ƒuck me. THAT is the sincerest display of desire. Any woman telling you that waiting for her pussie is the "right way" to go about it is selling you something.

I normally agree with you RT but on this, personal experience, and the experience of others around me has taught me differently. I think that a woman should definitely try to hold out against a guy's advances a bit (I'm not talking about other displays of affection - just sex). I think that a woman who climbs easily into your bed, can climb out just as easily for any silly reason as she is free from any inhibition whatsoever (and that her body has less of a value to her).

Also if this is the same girl that "fvcked the guy at a foam party half an hour after meeting him" then she is worth absolutely nothing to me. Yes I can try and tell myself that she might be okay, but subconsciously she becomes garbage to me and it always comes out when the going gets bad.

If a woman CAN control herself in spite of her urges (for a short while at least), I think that is a very good thing as it shows that she can use her brain and go beyond silly chemical reactions. Because when things go wrong she might display the same control before doing something dumb. A woman can definitely show her interest level in other ways.

Now this is a generalization, as I am sure, as with all things in life, there can be exceptions, but I would be very cautious of a LTR with a chick like this.

I added a quotation once here along these lines: A lock that gets opened by many keys is a bad lock, but a key that opens many locks is a master key.

I think this quotation fits here quite well.

 

[Falcon25]

I want you to disregard most every post on here and read this very carefully. I have slept w countless women. I have been through many things with women. If you want a woman that you like and want to swoon for you, to fall in love with you, it is imperative that you withold sex from her early. You have to turn the tables and make HER want it more than you. If you have sex early. She will have an easier time walking from you. You have to emotionally Fuvk her first. Sex means NOTHING for a woman if it has no emotional attachment behind it. TIME is the key to a woman's heart. Sex early will kill emotional attachment. Listen very carefully. My goal w women is for them to fall for ME. Not vice versa. The greatest tool you have at your disposal is ANTICIPATION.
Disregard this post if you are not wanting the woman to fall for you or if you just want to get laid.