Affirmative Action

[Skel]

What do you think?

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Do you think Affirmative action is racist, unconstitutional, unfair, or is it a good thing? I think it was necessary at one point in time but is it still? How fair is it for someone who gets a 4.0GPA to get passed up for a job to someone who slacked off in school but get the job because they are a "minority"?

 

[Bible_Belt]

I think Diablo will close this thread.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

I think Diablo will close this thread.

I concur:trouble:

I'm the wrong guy to ask, because I would benefit from AA:rockon: and I don't care if a more "qualified" person is denied employment.

We could discuss the way public education is unequally funded and how increasing the number of middle class minorities is beneficial, but why waste our time on a thread that will be closed?

 

[Skel]

Its a shame you are right. Anything worth discussing is closed. Perhaps Jariel had the right idea...

 

[spider_007]

notting really to discuss here....you are right....but nothing is gonna change, because that's the way the world works....

 

[drummer]

How fair is it for someone who gets a 4.0GPA to get passed up for a job to someone who slacked off in school but get the job because they are a "minority"?

This is not the goal. The goal of AA is to make sure the opposite doesnt happen; so a minority with a 4.0 doesn't get passed up for a non-minority who slacked off simply because they are a minority. I am not arguing for or aginast it, but that is what it is trying to do.

 

[Le Parisien]

I will quickly share my thoughts just before the thread gets closed...

I was against it from an outsider's point of view since I'm NOT American, but after I came to the States and met one of my best friends in the US (a really cute blonde girls with beautiful blue eyes by the way...no, I konw what you are thinking, but she's my friend, I don't think of her in "that" way... . By the way she used to teach high school in poor black neighborhoods) who suppports it, I totally changed my mind.

She explained to me that it is not really about fairness, of course it's totally unfair to hire people/admit students with lower standards simply because they are black. But it's about trying to change the society so hopefully some years down the road there will be less discrepencies, and we can finally get out the current negative cycle.

Basically, better education/jobs means better income, thus overtime more black middle class, and in return more brilliant black kids who do well in education and the job market. Eventually the black population will be able to compete on their own without any external support, and the infernal cycle of : poverty -> violence -> crime -> poverty -> violence etc... will be stopped.

I know it's only a very idealized picture, but this is why there's the affirmative action. Despite the bigger picture, everybody should agree that it's fundamentally NOT fair.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Frankly, affirmative action is just like feminism. By giving minority groups special priviledges, you are only increasing the gap and causing racism. The only way to end racism is to get people to accept each other as fellow human beings, not segregate them.

 

[TheTrader]

notting really to discuss here....you are right....but nothing is gonna change, because that's the way the world works....

true.....but it's gonna change someday......but only after serious damage has been caused, people (almost) never wake up until it's too late.

 

[PRMoon]

The only way to end racism is to get people to accept each other as fellow human beings, not segregate them.

You mean the same way we view women as our equals right?

 

[IsiMan84]

Affirmative Action was created to give qualified minorities an equal chance. So no, a slacker isn't going to get a job over a 4.0 student. And anyone who tells you otherwise is just trying to find a good excuse for not getting the job they wanted.

And by the way, the greatest benefitor from Affirmative Action is actually women, not blacks/hispanics/etc. like everybody is saying.

 

[itishe]

It should be removed.

If you wouldn't mind caucasions having programs like this in different fields then I'll hear your arguement for AA. If not, then it's a racist program.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Affirmative Action was created to give qualified minorities an equal chance. So no, a slacker isn't going to get a job over a 4.0 student. And anyone who tells you otherwise is just trying to find a good excuse for not getting the job they wanted.

And by the way, the greatest benefitor from Affirmative Action is actually women, not blacks/hispanics/etc. like everybody is saying.

You are absolutely correct on all counts.

 

[IsiMan84]

It should be removed.

If you wouldn't mind caucasions having programs like this in different fields then I'll hear your arguement for AA. If not, then it's a racist program.

Name one field (besides pro sports and prisoner) where caucasians would need some sort of assistance getting jobs. Or are you just the typical complainer who doesn't know why they're complaining? I'm guessing some illegal immigrant probably stole that migrant farming job you so dearly "wanted" too. And even then, the idea of the program is to keep percentages in accordance with the population, quota, etc. So if a business was 100% black and in some (rare) occasion a white person wanted a job there, then it would/should also apply.

You are absolutely correct on all counts.

Thank you thank you, just gotta shake dem haters off.

 

[itishe]

Name one field (besides pro sports and prisoner) where caucasians would need some sort of assistance getting jobs. Or are you just the typical complainer who doesn't know why they're complaining? I'm guessing some illegal immigrant probably stole that migrant farming job you so dearly "wanted" too. And even then, the idea of the program is to keep percentages in accordance with the population, quota, etc. So if a business was 100% black and in some (rare) occasion a white person wanted a job there, then it would/should also apply.


Thank you thank you, just gotta shake dem haters off.

I don't care if caucasions don't have problems getting jobs in any field. Minorities shouldn't get advantages just because of their skin.

There should be no BET, United Negro College Fund, etc. because it's all racist. IT'S RACIST, maybe one more time for good measure RACIST.

 

[Mitch_Mustain]

I dont give a f*ck either way because I dont have a 4.0 GPA and I'm not a minority so i guess I'm just sh*t out of luck.

nah, overall I agree that it's original purpose was correct but now its like a trend that is getting old or a myth thats obviously been debunked but not accepted as a myth and not the truth. We now know that blacks and other "minorities" are as capable as us whites at succeeding, but what pisses me off is that both sides of the debate keep poking at this issue in f*cked up way or another and its ridiculous. If the motherf*cker get's the job at AT&T, then your ass needs to go apply at Sprint or Southwestern Bell.

 

[IsiMan84]

Wow I'm gonna have a field day with you two. Sometimes ignorance isn't bliss.

I don't care if caucasions don't have problems getting jobs in any field. Minorities shouldn't get advantages just because of their skin.

There should be no BET, United Negro College Fund, etc. because it's all racist. IT'S RACIST, maybe one more time for good measure RACIST.

I love how you're generalizing Affirmative Action to blacks, yet I clearly stated above that the greatest benefitors are women. Since you still probably don't get it then I need to explain that further. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION HELPS WOMEN MORE THAN IT DOES OTHER RACES. Should I repeat that for good measure too since you want to be smart about it?

And as for the "RACIST" rant, BET is owned by white people (gasp!) who are trying to appeal to the black demographic. The owner of your beloved MTV also owns BET.

The UNCF is a private organization, which means they can do whatever the fúck they want with their money. The NRA spends the majority of its money on rich white people and endorses white Republican candidates, and also didn't step in when the police were taking guns from blacks in New Orleans. But I don't see you complaining about that. Or did that just 'slip' your mind? And don't even let me get started with FEMA...

I dont give a f*ck either way because I dont have a 4.0 GPA and I'm not a minority so i guess I'm just sh*t out of luck.

nah, overall I agree that it's original purpose was correct but now its like a trend that is getting old or a myth thats obviously been debunked but not accepted as a myth and not the truth. We now know that blacks and other "minorities" are as capable as us whites at succeeding, but what pisses me off is that both sides of the debate keep poking at this issue in f*cked up way or another and its ridiculous. If the motherf*cker get's the job at AT&T, then your ass needs to go apply at Sprint or Southwestern Bell.

You aren't getting the picture though. The purpose for starting it was not because minorities are "incapable of success." They always have been capable. But the reason was because of the selection processes. Like I said, the minority also has to be qualified. Simply put, in the past if both a white and black guy had a 3.5 GPA and equal credentials, they would choose the white guy because he was white. The same goes for a man and a woman. Most people criticize the system and don't even know the basics or premise behind it. You have to think about it this way: if nobody had done anything about it in the first place, would things have ever changed for the better? Hell no. We'd have to have another 250,000 people march the streets. People make it sound like we've come so far, but civil rights have only been in effect for 42 years of this nation's 230 year history.

 

[seanchai]

If you wouldn't mind caucasions having programs like this in different fields then I'll hear your arguement for AA. If not, then it's a racist program.

Um, the whole reason it exists is because AMERICA IS RACIST. The opportunity structure is biased toward white males and against everyone else. Affirmative action exists to give "everyone else" a chance. I wrote some very long posts on this awhile ago... I think if you search for affirmative action you'll find them.

EDIT: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=93523&highlight=martin+luther+king

 

[IsiMan84]

A couple more things I wanted to add:

I don't care if caucasions don't have problems getting jobs in any field.

This could be read two ways. But I have answers for both.

Answer 1:
Of course you wouldn't care, because you already have the upper hand in society. Who would want to give that up?

Answer 2:
You are a racist.

Minorities shouldn't get advantages just because of their skin.

Then you would also agree they shouldn't be disadvantaged either?

 

[Brian20o2]

Im surprised this thread hasnt been closed yet.

My opinion: Putting labels on people and then making programs to help certain people (Regardless of who) will only separate people into groups and verify that segirgation. That being said I wouldn't know where to go to fix the root of the problem, Thats someone elses job.