AD

[Mr. Mystery II]

AD doesn't cover how to be attractive, thats true.

Now Cardinali, you say how should he expect these hotties to stick around if he doesn't allow them get to know him. I think thats more or less what you and SexPDX agree on.

Like I said I'm no expert on AD, but I don't see anywhere that he says don't let her get to know you. I assume he takes getting to know her as something for granted with a girl your seeing.

I don't have much trouble getting women and I never do much of anything to "displaying attractiveness" or anything. I'm pretty happy with who I am, I flirt, kino, yada yada yada, but I don't go out of my way to show her what a great catch I am, I'm more interested in finding out if she is a great catch.

I don't see much of a difference with "AD's Machine" and the way I get women.

I approach a girl, if she is interested then we move to the next stage, either seeing her again or kissing, making out, petting, fvcking, whatever.

For the approach to be accepted she has some interest that I didn't really create outside of simply approaching confidently. How is this any different than what AD is saying?

The relationship that follows after the initial approach goes on and I might not like that she smokes, or whatever so I get rid of her, not because I am insecure or AFC.

But lets say she doesn't like something about me. Perhaps my drinking bothers her, but I love to drink so I tell her I'm not gonna stop drinking and she nexts me. Does that make me an AFC or insecure? No.

AD's system is a very simple diagram of dating or meeting people, its not a how to get girls guide, its a how to act when getting girls guide. The how to get girls is not too complicated though. I'm not sure what you guys are doing to get girls, but I'm not doing much more than approaching and taking it from there.

Mr. Mystery

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

I don't speak for PDX here, but in my view, the approach AD recommends is a lot like Doc Love. Which is ask for the number and if you get a home number, then you are "in". Wait 7 days to call, be a challenge, don't chat on the phone, don't IM, be mysterious, etc etc. The focus is on getting a girl who is attracted to you (has high interest) right off the bat and then being a challenge to keep her interested.

The question though which I think most guys have here is "how do you actually attract women, what makes them interested?". This is a tough question and one which most people cannot answer. So instead you end up with stuff like "if her interest is below 50% then there's nothing you can do about it, if it is above 90 then you are good" etc. Doesn't really help in my view.

Quite frankly, if I am an AFC who has had big trouble getting chicks, telling me to only go after high interest ones doesn't really help. And if I don't do the work to make myself attractive, then the ones that will have high interest in an AFC are also AFC chicks. Do you understand?


An analogy, you want to land a kick a$$ job as a business executive but you don't have the right skill set, experience, or education.

If someone said to you "only interview for the jobs where they have high interest in you" would you interview for jobs at McDonalds? Absolutely not.

What if the executive jobs you want are not interested in you? Would you follow the advice of someone who says "you should go after the McDonald jobs because they really want you"? I don't think so.

You would want to follow advice from someone who says "I know what it takes to get an executive job and I can teach it. Here's what you need to work on, here is the degree you'll need to have, here are the steps you'll need to talk". And then from there you've got to do the work.

But to only seek employment at places that have "high interest off the bat" would severely limit what you can go for. And essentially, this is the easy way out. It is an AFC cop out when it comes to chicks.

Cesare Cardinali

 

[Mr. Mystery II]

Ceasar Cardinali,

Okay, I'll agree with you, that by your definition of what AD recommends as far as its enphasis on being a challenge. There is defintely more to this than getting a number and staying mysterious and challenging. But I still think its a decent program to start out in when you are initially learning this stuff, and it gonna be the ideal program since as SexPDX previously said, your gonna be a woman hating ****y quick to next a bytch anyway.

I still beleive its a good set of training wheels. Its a good system to use when you know very little about dating. As you learn more by reading here and elsewhere and more notabley gain experience you learn to abandon the super fast nexting and not be so much of a challenge that she leaves not knowing a damn thing about you, thus having little to interest her in you. But these are things you learn while working, learning, and growing in his system, until you make it your own system.

I don't think we are all at much of a disagreement as much as we are in a misunderstanding and miscommunication. Were all saying the same thing here really.

Mr. Mystery

 

[Oxide]

There was a very good reason as to why i did it that way...

That reason being, you arent going to find that post anywhere... hell i dont even remember where i dug that jewel up. So please refrain from comments like those.

 

[SexPDX]

Cesare, you have always been great with analogies. They were never really my forte for whatever reason. Good post.

And Mys, I think you are right that you and Cesare and I are not really in as much conflict as we appear to be. And even though AD may not have INTENDED his system to be training wheels, it might be useful to somebody as such nonetheless.

Good discussion, guys.

Originally posted by Oxide
There was a very good reason as to why i did it that way...

That reason being, you arent going to find that post anywhere... hell i dont even remember where i dug that jewel up.

Oh, bull-fvcking-crap! Please! Not going to find it anywhere????

You may not remember it NOW, but at the time you cut and pasted the post into a thread of your own you sure as hell knew where it was coming from. And even if you really don't remember now where it came from...how about doing a fvcking SEARCH and posting a fvcking LINK?

I even once posted a thread myself telling people about that post and how great it was. Did I copy it into my own thread like you did? No, I provided a link to DeepBlue's thread so as to give as much credit as possible to the originator of the ideas and not clutter up the forum any more than it already is with multiple posts about the same topic.

-PDX

 

[Oxide]

oh shut the hell up, pdx you are acting like a moron!

You know where i found that post? a fukking txt file... now YOU do a search and YOU try to prove some stupid pointless sh1t, and feel like a "man"...

Honestly, stop acting like a baby and attacking the person instead of the argument..

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

Oxide wrote:

you arent going to find that post anywhere

You know where i found that post? a fukking txt file... now YOU do a search and YOU try to prove some stupid pointless sh1t, and feel like a "man"...

Oxide,

The thread is in the "archives" and is there for a reason. I found it in less than a minute. Page three of the archives, or do a search with author "DeepBlue".

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18400

Cesare Cardinali

 

[Oxide]

That's great, im glad this post is there as well, more people should read it.
My bad, i honestly had no idea it was here, should have probably done a search, however i am still very happy that a lot of people found that post useful in the thread i made. No hard feelings.


Back on the topic, i think Cesare Cardinali got it spot on.

The guy is looking for a perfect woman... but instead of having fun with ladies who might be almost perfect with a little quirk her automatically dismisses them.

Mystery, you are saying the advice is a set of training wheels? Take a guy who is not good with women.. he meets a girl at a bar.. after an hour he finally gets the guts to ask for a number... then he leaves. Now think about this, if he waits a week to call her, what are the chances she will remember some average joe she met last saturday night.

AD's way would work better for someone who is definately good with women, but the catch 22 is, once you become good, there is absolutely no need for advice like this becuase your gut can tell you exactly what to do.

 

[SexPDX]

Oxide, I appologize for my admittedly overzealous defense of DeepBlue's material. I now consider the hatchet burried.

-PDX

 

[DeepBlue]

Originally posted by SexPDX
Oxide, I appologize for my admittedly overzealous defense of DeepBlue's material. I now consider the hatchet burried.

-PDX

Here here. There's no such thing as being too zealous in defense of me.

-DB

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by DeepBlue
Here here. There's no such thing as being too zealous in defense of me.

-DB

Hehehe! While we have your attention, in addition to acknowledging the defense, do you care to comment at all on the topic? I am sure I could myself surmise what your position would likely be, but for the benefit of others your comments would be useful.

-PDX

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

TO: PDX
FROM: PDX

Dude, you are a fvcking net loon lame ass! Admit it.

Ha, ha, dude... just havin' some fun with you.

 

[Oxide]

Oh my, look who crawled from under the rock
What the hell are you doing around here DeepBlue, i figured you'd be married with two kids by now

It's great you came around again, how is the search for the woman of your dreams coming?

 

[Mr. Mystery II]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
TO: PDX
FROM: PDX

your a net loon lame ass, admit it!


Ha, ha, dude... just havin' some fun with you.

Lol, I remember that thread! Whatever happened to Page? It appears he finally got past his SoSuave obsession and retired from the net loon business.

Past that, this thread has gotten pretty off topic...

Mr. Mystery

 

[DeepBlue]

Originally posted by SexPDX
Hehehe! While we have your attention, in addition to acknowledging the defense, do you care to comment at all on the topic? I am sure I could myself surmise what your position would likely be, but for the benefit of others your comments would be useful.

-PDX

Ok, even though the "topic" is a confusing mess, because it's really not one topic, but many topics being treated (and argued over) as if they were just one topic.

Interest Level is not one thing. There is:
Her Interest level when she first sees you.
Her Interest level after, say, thirty seconds of interaction.
Her Interest level after five or ten minutes of conversation
Her interest level when you and she are in a relationship or at least dating and sleeping together.

At each of these stages you can look for certain Indicators Of Interest, AND you can do things to increase the probability of getting those IOI's.

In the first stages, you do your best to be an attractive guy, not just physically but "the whole package". How you carry yourself, what you do, what you say, who you are.
Later on, if you start spending more time together then you put your best foot forward in being a guy she likes to be with (fun, good in bed, a caring person and all that).

At any stage, your self-esteem dictates that you should expect a certain "level" of interest on her part, and if that interest is not forthcoming, then you should move on if you've done the best you can to be an attractive, desirable guy.

I think a lot of the argument over this issue comes from uncertainty over what a guy can or might do to increase his attractiveness in the initial stages, or to make himself desirable as a relationship partner.

Unfortunately, a great many guys go through a hard knocks phase of trying real hard, but by doing the WRONG things--really counterproductive things--whining, pleading, nagging, pressuring, things which all come from, and CONVEY, neediness and desperation.

Eventually these guys learn the hard way that these approaches don't work, but by then the whole notion of doing ANYTHING to attract a woman has (for them) become synonymous with grovelling or pushiness and all these approaches that don't work, so these guys become gun-shy about the notion of doing ANYTHING at all to increase a woman's "Interest Level".

Do the right things, intelligent things--always keep your self-respect, don't friggin' grovel or nag, pressure, or whine, but DO convey attractive qualities like confidence, a sense of humor,etc. when you meet, and then DO be a man who's desirable to be with by being strong, caring, considerate, playful, and good in bed. And if you ARE doing these things and you still don't see the kind of "Interest Level" you're looking for in a woman, then by all means DO move on. NEXT.

DeepBlue

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by DeepBlue
Do the right things, intelligent things--always keep your self-respect, don't friggin' grovel or nag, pressure, or whine, but DO convey attractive qualities like confidence, a sense of humor,etc. when you meet, and then DO be a man who's desirable to be with by being strong, caring, considerate, playful, and good in bed. And if you ARE doing these things and you still don't see the kind of "Interest Level" you're looking for in a woman, then by all means DO move on.

But, DeepBlue, isn't there something to be said for learning a few NLP-based word combos and well-placed phrases capable of obliterating thousands of years of genetic conditioning that influences women to want to be with capable, successful and confident man???

LOL! Just kidding.

Seriously, thanks for posting in this thread. I don't know if you are doing searches on YOUR name or mine these days, but however you ended up here I am glad you did. It was useful to examine exactly what we are talking about when we use the term "interest level". You did a lot to summerize what was disagreed upon and pointing out the substantive issues.

-PDX

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Dude, you are a fvcking net loon lame ass! Admit it.

Hahahaha! I recently read through parts of that gigantic thread again, it's a classic for sure. I was almost completely absent from this forum for over a year at one point and it was never more than a week at a time that I did not think about that thread, how it started and what it turned into and have a chuckle to myself about the whole thing. It's in the archives here and as well it should be.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Ha, ha, dude... just havin' some fun with you.

LOL! Apparently you did not listen to what I said to you in that SAME thread about "using the forum for entertainment". Tch, tch, tch.

-PDX

 

[DeepBlue]

Originally posted by SexPDX
But, DeepBlue, isn't there something to be said for learning a few NLP-based word combos and well-placed phrases capable of obliterating thousands of years of genetic conditioning that influences women to want to be with capable, successful and confident man???

LOL! Just kidding.

-PDX

Yes, it's important to make use of "strange and unusual techniques" in seduction so you can feel like your success with women depends entirely on consciously adopted strategies, because the ego boost of feeling like a superbly proficient schemer is worth far more than the relaxed confidence you get from feeling that you're just a sexy desirable guy who attracts women without even trying to.
-DB

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by DeepBlue
Yes, it's important to make use of "strange and unusual techniques" in seduction
-DB

Hey isn't that the eighth ammedment to the U.S. Constitution?

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor strange and unusual techniques inflicted.

-PDX

 

[DeepBlue]

Originally posted by SexPDX
Hey isn't that the eighth ammedment to the U.S. Constitution?

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor strange and unusual techniques inflicted.

-PDX

I think that prohibits CRUEL and unusual techniques of seduction. For instance, where you tease a woman by bringing her to the very brink of climax again and again and again till she's filled with an unbearable longing for you to go all the way.

-DB