Academics, grad school...

[Tao of Steve]

what do you think about the prospects, ups and downs, mileu etc. of grad school and academic types?

i am currently doing a grad degree in a social science /education related field. you must spend most of your time alone reading and writing.

many of the girls seem to a) not be physically attractive b) Are not social c) really feminst oriented.

 

[comote]

Most of the girls I have met in grad school have some issues. I have met very few normal girls(or people) in grad school.

Most people in grad school are not really social. You may actually see the most social people being in education. Many teachers have to get graduate degrees and so they may be more social than those that actually want to get a graduate degree for other reasons.

I have met some attractive girls in graduate school. In almost any field graduate school is significantly more heavily male. Just realize that any girl in graduate school is going to have a ton of guys paying her more attention than she is used to outside of graduate school. I will leave it at that.

 

[WaterTiger]

This is just MY view on things, other opinions may differ.

Many of the girls seem:
a) Not to be physically attractive
Because beautiful women don't need to have graduate degrees to make their way in the world. They have faces & bodies that open nearly any door. Why earn the big money when you can just marry it?
b) Are not social
You said yourself that much of your time is spent reading & writing. This is grad school, not "Basketweaving 101". The people who come here are driven to educate themselves. They probably see dating as time away from studying.(ie. wasted)
c) Really feminst oriented.
They've been fed the tired old line about "toughen up, you're in a man's world now!" You are the enemy, the competition. She's going to be fighting you for the same job in a few years.
(You're also the guy who teased them about being "Miss Brainiac" in high school...and NOW you want to date them??? HA!)

I'm not saying that dating a fellow student is impossible, but it is going to be more difficult.

 

[WestCoaster]

I love grad school women

My view is different from the rest here as I'm just a year removed from grad school.

My takes:

1. By far the most intelligent women you'll meet are usually in grad school. They have to be fairly smart as tons of reading is involved, and tons of reflection, thinking, and writing on this reading is required. I was VERY impressed with the intellects I met in grad school. Sure beat the bimbo secretaries who hover around the water cooler, gossip in the work place, and can't think on different levels.

2. Attractive? Well, not sure about others here but there were some drop-dead gorgeous women in my grad program. Perhaps the most gorgeous woman I've ever met was in grad school. Perhaps not as eye-popping as undergrads as a whole, but the intellect of grad school women puts them on a different level.

3. Professional and goal-oriented. This is tough if you're in the settle down mode, as I kind of am and was in grad school. You see these women for a couple years and then you're usually going in different directions because of professional aspirations. No one is going to fork out grad school money then cave in and bag those aspirations for a relationship that may or may not work out. I'd say I fell in lust (infatuation, not quite love) with three super high quality women in grad school. Two of them are in different locales than I am; one works where I do and is dating someone else.

I'd kill to go back and date grad school women to be honest, but you have to know that it's probably going to be a temporary, short-term deal.

They're WAY, WAY better than the average U.S. working woman, IMO. (No reflection on you WT, just my thoughts on grad school women.)

 

[Eileen]

Originally posted by Tao of Steve
many of the girls seem to a) not be physically attractive b) Are not social c) really feminst oriented. [/B]

Oh good lord! Those are sweeping generalizations. I'm not in grad school anymore but I spent a significant amount of time there and I'm what you'd call an academic now.

Could it be that people in grad school, both men and women, are focused on something other than the dating game, that they have a different set of priorities?

I know when I was in grad school, I didn't have the energy to care if a man thought I was attractive or not. Quite frankly, I preferred they didn't find me attractive so they wouldn't interrupt me. I also knew at that point that if I were to have a man in my life it would have to be a man who shared my same interests and passions. No way was I going to waste my time dating a bloke simply because he was interested in me or just because he could be charming in a social situation. I had better things to do with my time.

 

[Tao of Steve]

Re: Re: Academics, grad school...

Originally posted by Eileen
Oh good lord! Those are sweeping generalizations. I'm not in grad school anymore but I spent a significant amount of time there and I'm what you'd call an academic now.

Could it be that people in grad school, both men and women, are focused on something other than the dating game, that they have a different set of priorities?

I know when I was in grad school, I didn't have the energy to care if a man thought I was attractive or not. Quite frankly, I preferred they didn't find me attractive so they wouldn't interrupt me. I also knew at that point that if I were to have a man in my life it would have to be a man who shared my same interests and passions. No way was I going to waste my time dating a bloke simply because he was interested in me or just because he could be charming in a social situation. I had better things to do with my time.

you confirm my point 'eileen'.

 

[gentleman193]

which grad school?

WestCoaster -- What kind of program or what school were you in?

 

[WestCoaster]

Info

I was at Oregon State University -- no shortage of hotties there, that's for sure.

My degree was based around education/higher education; I now work at a university.

OSU was eye-candy city, especially when the months and months of rain ended in the late spring and the women all seemed to bloom just like the flowers ... no more raincoats and parkas. Plus my program had mostly women in it, and nice women at that. It was a very good two years of my life. Plus, despite my age, I even dated some hot undergrads. (Believe it or not the first gal I dated in grad school was a hottie from Japan who was 19. Yikes! I'm like twice her age. I just never brought up the age deal and refused to ask her how old she was out of guilt. We were just chums, but my buddies gave me high fives left and right for going out with a 19-year old. Could've sworn she was 22.)

I should've gone on for my doctorate. Just kidding, but it was a very good time of my life and these women had the excellent combination of brains and beauty.

The problem is (and was for me) after two years, you all go in different directions because you make a financial investment you're certainly not going to hang around unemployed for a person when you have an advanced degree. After grad school it was back to square one.

 

[Tao of Steve]

I have been to two diff schools for grad school. Again, within the education and social sciences. many of the women are the type that:

wear sandals with black socks, wear no make up, wear their hair plain - no style, in a pony tail - they kind of look like hippy's. They do not eat meat, are really feminist - always talking about lesbianism and homosexuality and how oppressive patriarchy and men are.

they talk about how hetrosexulity is oppressive and and how oppresive men are (im not trying to open up a debate on this, just painting a picture of what the women are like).


they are often correcting people on their usage of 'oppressive words'. many have really short hair and face rings.

they could not socialize with people who are not like this (they are very shrill).

there are posts throughout the departments and handbooks warning about sexual harrasment and how using certian language or giving unsoliticated comments or questions, touching etc. is sexual harrasment and grounds for dismissal.

it is a pretty cold environment.


anyway, i am obviously not interested in any of these women. but my original post was refering more to the idea of social prospects while being in grad school. income is low, many people think being in school at 30+ is low status, etc.

howver, you have aot more freedom, it is intellectually stimulating etc.

so i am asking others feelings in general on being in grad school - its social status, pros and cons etc.

 

[WestCoaster]

Depends on your major

Well, my program was mostly people who were aiming to work in secondary or higher ed programs, and most were focused on getting jobs. It wasn't that politicized. People were still pretty smart and educated, but it was a fairly short, intense program and there really wasn't a lot of time to be politicizing everything in sight.

I know where you're coming from, however. In the state where I went to grad school just down the road, the University of Oregon, is nothing but hippieville 24/7/365 and if you don't think like they do, you're not only ostracized by your classmates, but also your professors. One of my best friends was pushed out of a grad program there because he challenged some of the thinking ... and he's one of the brightest guys I know.

I was fortunate in my program at OSU focused on learning the material first and getting quality internships second.

I was also lucky that there were a large number of hotties at the school who were more than willing to date.

 

[Le Parisien]

I'm currently finishing my master's in Computer Science (will normally have my degree in 2 months)

Women wise, what can I say about my program? There are none. Oh wait a second, there are some girls, but they are either not very feminine (and it's a big understatement ), or they are stuck up like hell when they are at least decent looking, thinking that they are the hottest sh*t around.
I don't really blame them since it's all about supply and demand. When the male/female ratio is something like 10/1 and 4 chicks out of 5 are like @#$%^&, how do you think the decent looking ones are going to behave?
I just look elsewhere.

On the other hand, it's cool to have 2 MS degrees when you are only 24 though, hehe...

 

[OddTech]

Word, L. P.

 

[Yotsuya-san]

I did notice some of the same back when I was getting my M.S. A lot of these more intellectual girls have been bookworms since grammar school so they're not too experienced with normal people or the world outside their chosen field of study. They've lived sheltered lives and sometimes it shows in the way they talk. But they still need drama, so they choose what to them is a "safe" form of drama such as being overly political or feminist.
These girls tend to prefer totally AFC guys since AFC guys will do anything to please, including accepting these girls agendas.
Many of them would be more attractive if they took an interest in their appearance. This is often interpreted as a form of rebellion against the mainstream mentality (brains vs beauty). Also I've noticed that a lot of them tend to think in competitive terms even in social occasions. As if they feel the need to prove to every non AFC man they meet that they are independent and educated. Despite my edumacation, I like to relax now and then and turn my brain off.

 

[stevera004]

Originally posted by Le Parisien

On the other hand, it's cool to have 2 MS degrees when you are only 24 though, hehe...

If you think so; you'll find that noone else will care (especially HB's).

 

[Le Parisien]

Originally posted by stevera004
If you think so; you'll find that noone else will care (especially HB's).

Hey my friend, don't hate on me ok?

I never said anyone would care, why should they care anyway? As long as my future employer cares and I get big $$$ I'm happy. HBs usually love big $$$ right? A lots of people care about big $$$ right?

 

[WestCoaster]

HB's don't know what they want

To Stevera:

Some HBs care if you have two degrees, some don't ... if you think you have the market on the mind of the American woman for God's sake get off this site and write a book. You'll strike it rich.

"They say they want a classy guy, they date dirtbags."

"They say they want compliments, a neg-hit works better."

"They say men are totally consumed by women's looks, but they're by far worse in their judgements."

"They say they want someone thoughtful and caring ... then find the least caring and kind person they can find."

If a guy has two degrees, good for HIM! Never, ever base anything on what HBs think, because they themselves don't know what they think. They have no freakin' clue. Might as well sink money into the stock market, your odds are better than trying to design your life around what women think.

 

[BrownDJ]

Seriously, what do you expect. I'm at Harvard, girls here don't even have instant messanger for the fear of wasting time. I have met some of the hottest nerds, but as my female friend told me, even the hot nerds are lonely. Just find them at night , they don't have time for a date. Last night , Saturday night, a girl was studying in the courtyard, I rode the elevator up with her, asked her over, and ultimately rode her. We both went back to studying at midnight.

Just play the hardball, ultimately that's the way it has to be. I have this stunning beauty who wants to get together, she attends BU, but for the last week I've been booked solid with work, and have had to keep pushing her back. I'll be getting together with her Weds. which is a long time since we first met, but hey, school comes first.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Originally posted by Le Parisien
Hey my friend, don't hate on me ok?

I never said anyone would care, why should they care anyway? As long as my future employer cares and I get big $$$ I'm happy. HBs usually love big $$$ right? A lots of people care about big $$$ right?

hate to burst your bubble but two MS's aren't much better than one in terms of a paycheck. you'll probably never get any returns ($$$) off the second one. the fact that you're 24, with two of them, only hurts you. sorry bro, it's true.

i have an MS Econ, MS Applied Math, Phd Econ. the latter is where the money's at. you can write your own ticket. automatic respect since Phd Econ is fukking rough.

$$$'s fine, but you've got a little bit of a skewed perspective on it, it seems.

-------------

like WestCoaster, my view is different because i actually teach these people.

i teach Exec Mgmt (Corporate Finance) at a major university in so cal. these are pre-MBA's, MBA's, attorneys, CPA's etc, 25-35 demographic--basically my peer group, which is cool.

these ladies are looking for a guy who has his shiat together. most have already dummied up about the dating scene. these are the ones that "get it" and have gotten past their "jerk-dating" phase. there are some damn hot ones in my classes, and most aren't coppin' an attitude.

i make good bank, my own mgmt consulting company and hedge fund. i have not yet considered one of them a "gold digger". they want a guy who's ambitious, successful, confident, is respected, and has been around the block a few times. looks don't matter at the end of the day. nor does having two MS's, nor a Phd for that matter, nor making a lot of $$$$.

my theory with these chicks is this: why should they waste their time on a dude who MIGHT become all of the things they're looking for, when they can take a shot at a cat who ALREADY IS those things?

in my particular case, these are 12 week courses, three hours once a week. that's a lot of "getting to know me" time. that's like 12 "dates". so they know me very, very, well--some have told me this. it's actually scary, since i don't know them very well.

they're not beating down my door, but, all in all, i worked my azz off to get where i'm at and these chicks know it and respect it and are attracted to it.

i can go on and on about this particular topic. eight years of teaching, you learn a lot about these types, and yourself, as well as, the dynamic of attraction.

i'm actually thinking about being a bit more obvious of my single-dom, since these are the types of ladies i would be interested in for an LTR. i think many who would otherwise approach, are intimidated. i don't dig that and try to diffuse it.

 

[Le Parisien]

I was just being sarcastic, since the comment from stevera004 sounded like he's kinda bitter about life, especially women-wise...

Ok, I agree, my initial post was a little showing-off and bragging, but hey I'm only 24, still a pretty immature kid craving for attention...

the fact that you're 24, with two of them, only hurts you. sorry bro, it's true.

You definitely have more experience in this regard, could you please explain more in detail why? It would help me a lot to understand my "market value". I assume that you meant "carrier wise" NOT "women wise" right?

Finally, I think being a "young" grad student makes me "unsuitable" for posting in this section of the board, since my expectations and interests (women/girls wise) are pretty different from most of you guys'. I feel more like an undergrad trapped in a more advanced academic curriculum, I still feel like a senior or super-senior.

What do you guys think?

 

[TooColdUlrick]

companies will red-flag you for two reasons. not all, but a lot.

1) you're 'overqualified' with two MS's at your age. they're thinking you're seeking employment as a stop gap, and you will be looking for the better job on their dime. when the better job does come, you bail and they have to incur the expense of replacing you. so they don't hire you in the first place.

and/or

2) two MS's at 24 is a professional student. you don't have full-time work experience. you can't unless you're an insomniac. HR people will probably resent it, and assume you're the "know it all" type. this, unfortunately is true for people your age (generally). true in work, true in DJ land.

all's i'm saying is that the second MS ain't gonna be worth much in terms of extra pay. if you get 10% more by having the second one, consider yourself very lucky. the only reason i did my App Math was to prep for the Phd Econ. most of the time i don't even bother telling people about my master's. it's like a college grad telling people he has a high school diploma.

getting grad degrees is usually a losing proposition, financially. don't get your panties ruffled guys, the present value of the costs exceeds the present value of the "extra" future income, in many cases. some people get great returns, some get zero. if everyone was guaranteed much higher incomes, everyone would get one. and two isn't necessarily better than one.

-------

/rant...

the MBA for example, is a HUGE scam.

http://www.aomonline.org/Publications/Articles/BSchools.asp

especially the part on "The Effects of the MBA Degree". hmmmm... non-MBA's at Boston Consulting Group, with three WEEKS of in-house training, were equally upwardly mobile, equal performance evals short/long term, and equal pay short/long term, as those with TWO YEARS of "MBA" training? ouch! other research confirms it.

and BCG hires the "best and brightest" MBA's--Hahvard Chaps! all that they know when they get out is how to read an out of context case study. basically the conclusion is that it's worthless across the board. why do they get hired then? because other's (clients) see the Harvard halo effect.

130,000 MBA's are going to be pumped on the market this year! by way of comparison, MS Econ will be about 1,800.