True, however it's not the woman who is the operative in this. The question is whether or not a guy can be 'friends' with woman and not want more. As friendship implies a mutual understanding between parties, a guy's motivation for friendship (whether he's conscious of it or not) will always be an issue in any intersexual relationship.
Where the male friend is coming from is really irrelevent to the relationship between the woman and her significant other. How she views the friendship is the only thing that is relevent concerning the impact on her romantic relationship with another guy. As long as she's not wanting the male friend it doesn't matter what he wants when it comes to her relationship with the other guy.
This is the method women use to fight when they compete for a common reinforcement - attention. Girls as young as 5 years old will display this group/social behavior. Women fight with ostracization from their grouping. They fight with innuendo and 'dirty' looks, they fight with the sublimenal. However they're fighting for the same resource which is attention. Either attention from each other or from the opposite sex, it's attention that is the reinforcer and affirmer for their own self-worth and their status within the group. Whereas men fight in the physical, women fight in the mental, which honestly can potentially be more damaging.
Well, I find this behavior to be juvenile, immature and dumb. My female friends are much like I am in this regard, which is probably why I like them.
No, because all women do not have the same establishing operations with regards to garnering attention. Not all women do this, yet it's a common enough behavior to see it evidenced. Her actions may be obvious to others, but not to the guy or the girl because they are the active parties. The reason the joke is funny is because the behavior happens with such frequency that people can identify with it. It's no secret that attractive women tend to keep a 'bullpen' of male 'friends' warming up and strung along under the pretense of friendship. This in no way means that she'll eventually become intimate with any of them (in fact just the opposite really), but they aren't held in reserve for the purpose of intimacy in case of emergency. They are a reliable source of attention which is a primary reinforcer her and the 'bullpen' members attention will do in the absence of that of a boyfriend.
How much of these sentiments are reality and how much of them is a simple case of men attempting to understand the behavior of women while looking through testosterone glasses? Men and women think differently. Although there are women who do as you describe...I have only known a few of those. Most women I know who have had male friends do view them as true friends, not what you describe. Again, I do think the fact that men are unable to separate their desire for sex from friendships with women contributes to this misconception. Men and women are very different in how they give and receive "support" in a friendship, too...which only adds to the confusion. Men tend to internalize feelings and only talk about them when they are looking for advice to find a solution. This doesn't really happen too often with men. Women, on the other hand process their feelings by talking about them. They don't need or want advice...they just need to talk, and talk they do. It's not a devious plot...it's just how women are wired.
Basically true, unfortunately most guys - AFCs in particular - still cling to the notion that eventually if he proves himself as a 'good friend' and plays by her rules long enough he will become intimate with her at a later time. The other myth of intersexual friendship is that of the male/female 'hang out' schema. I can't tell you how many guys run the "we hang out a lot" line at me when I question their motives about a female 'friend'. What exactly does 'hanging out' entail? How much hanging out do men and women do as friends once they're in an LTR or married to another person? As friends I'd trust that they share common interests, yet whenever I go a bit deeper 'hanging out' always comes down to the guy being a good listener for his female friend's personal life issues, rather than participating in the same activities that their same sex friends enjoy together. Guys in general also tend to tolerate the annoying behaviors from their female 'friends' that they would otherwise resist with their male friends. Not so with women, leading to the belief that there is another dynamic working for men in an intersexual friendship that does not come in to play for women or if so, not so noticible.
I covered the "listener" thing in my last paragraph. I used to play on a softball team with a bunch of my male friends. I used to go camping and fishing with others. When I was younger it was hunting, target shooting, ice fishing and snowmobiling.
Not suprising, since women who aren't interested in the blatantly superficial meanings of the activities you've described are usually required to use other methods to attract the attention of men.
Not true...for instance...I look very feminine and "girly" when I choose to. I pluck my eyebrows, am superb with make up and all that. However, I'm also extremely intelligent and find discussing basic hygiene and self care to be tediously boring and trite. Some of the prettiest women I know are also very intelligent and have more on their minds than discussing what's on sale at the mall and which shade of pink is in this season.
I agree totally. The easiest way to display a lack of confidence is to allow a woman see you become posessive over her. All this translates to is a guy not being confident enough to achieve intimacy from other women if his woman is testing this by maintaining a cuckold of male friends.
I do however disagree with your second point. It's all too common a situation that a woman lacks the integrity to be upfront about her intentions and enjoys the security she receives from the boyfriend, but still desires the attentions of a desirable male. Your statement makes the assumption that women operate under benevolent intent. Lots of women have their cake and eat it too. The whole reason this thread is a common one is because men sense this on some level.
Actually, I think it's more a case of men tend to feel threatened by other men who might hit on "their" woman. Even if the woman has no interest whatsoever in a guy that hits on her out of the blue...it's quite common for her boyfriend or husband to feel the need to "defend his honor" and "protect his territory" from what he perceives as intruders or threats. It's part of a man's human nature to do this.
You would unless his attention was more reinforcing than maintaining the appearance of steadfast adhereance to your very ideology.
No, I wouldn't. I'm not one to form surface friendships. The friends I have are very important to me and will be for the rest of my life. I will never allow some new person walk in and interfere in those friendships. Even if I genuinely loved a guy that did that, I would still dump him because there is no room in my life for insecure control freaks, period, and ultimately, anyone who would expect me to give up my friends is a control freak.
You'd be suprised what people would be willing to sacrifice for what they perceive as quality intimacy.
Quality intimacy can be had with virtually anyone if you know how to create it. Genuine friendships with people you care about and who care about you take more time to build and should never be sacrificed to appease someone else's insecurity.
Rare is the man who has the sack large enough to even suggest a woman ought to put off her friends (male or otherwise), but the point is the guy should never be in the position of having to make an ultimatum like this - the woman (and man) should know this intrinsically. If you have a quality relationship it's simply a matter of course to want to exclusively attend to the person you're intimate with, and any exceptions imply a less than ideal situation in the relationship. Being married for 8.5 years, my wife asks me if she can go to see friends out of respect and a desire to accomoddate me and I respond in kind when I am doing something social without her, but the fact remains that we do this because we are our first priorities to each other rather than it being an insecurity or posessiveness that debilatates us.
I've had an amazing relationship and I've had one where the man was a control freak. In the good relationship there was trust and mutual respect as well as the understanding and encouragement that each partner not only should, but must be an individual with their own interest and friends. Friendships and relationships with family are crucial to a person's happiness just as much as having a good relationship with their significant other. There should never be any need or expectation for either person to have to ask to maintain those other relationships.
Where the male friend is coming from is really irrelevent to the relationship between the woman and her significant other. How she views the friendship is the only thing that is relevent concerning the impact on her romantic relationship with another guy. As long as she's not wanting the male friend it doesn't matter what he wants when it comes to her relationship with the other guy.
This is the method women use to fight when they compete for a common reinforcement - attention. Girls as young as 5 years old will display this group/social behavior. Women fight with ostracization from their grouping. They fight with innuendo and 'dirty' looks, they fight with the sublimenal. However they're fighting for the same resource which is attention. Either attention from each other or from the opposite sex, it's attention that is the reinforcer and affirmer for their own self-worth and their status within the group. Whereas men fight in the physical, women fight in the mental, which honestly can potentially be more damaging.
Well, I find this behavior to be juvenile, immature and dumb. My female friends are much like I am in this regard, which is probably why I like them.
No, because all women do not have the same establishing operations with regards to garnering attention. Not all women do this, yet it's a common enough behavior to see it evidenced. Her actions may be obvious to others, but not to the guy or the girl because they are the active parties. The reason the joke is funny is because the behavior happens with such frequency that people can identify with it. It's no secret that attractive women tend to keep a 'bullpen' of male 'friends' warming up and strung along under the pretense of friendship. This in no way means that she'll eventually become intimate with any of them (in fact just the opposite really), but they aren't held in reserve for the purpose of intimacy in case of emergency. They are a reliable source of attention which is a primary reinforcer her and the 'bullpen' members attention will do in the absence of that of a boyfriend.
How much of these sentiments are reality and how much of them is a simple case of men attempting to understand the behavior of women while looking through testosterone glasses? Men and women think differently. Although there are women who do as you describe...I have only known a few of those. Most women I know who have had male friends do view them as true friends, not what you describe. Again, I do think the fact that men are unable to separate their desire for sex from friendships with women contributes to this misconception. Men and women are very different in how they give and receive "support" in a friendship, too...which only adds to the confusion. Men tend to internalize feelings and only talk about them when they are looking for advice to find a solution. This doesn't really happen too often with men. Women, on the other hand process their feelings by talking about them. They don't need or want advice...they just need to talk, and talk they do. It's not a devious plot...it's just how women are wired.
Basically true, unfortunately most guys - AFCs in particular - still cling to the notion that eventually if he proves himself as a 'good friend' and plays by her rules long enough he will become intimate with her at a later time. The other myth of intersexual friendship is that of the male/female 'hang out' schema. I can't tell you how many guys run the "we hang out a lot" line at me when I question their motives about a female 'friend'. What exactly does 'hanging out' entail? How much hanging out do men and women do as friends once they're in an LTR or married to another person? As friends I'd trust that they share common interests, yet whenever I go a bit deeper 'hanging out' always comes down to the guy being a good listener for his female friend's personal life issues, rather than participating in the same activities that their same sex friends enjoy together. Guys in general also tend to tolerate the annoying behaviors from their female 'friends' that they would otherwise resist with their male friends. Not so with women, leading to the belief that there is another dynamic working for men in an intersexual friendship that does not come in to play for women or if so, not so noticible.
I covered the "listener" thing in my last paragraph. I used to play on a softball team with a bunch of my male friends. I used to go camping and fishing with others. When I was younger it was hunting, target shooting, ice fishing and snowmobiling.
Not suprising, since women who aren't interested in the blatantly superficial meanings of the activities you've described are usually required to use other methods to attract the attention of men.
Not true...for instance...I look very feminine and "girly" when I choose to. I pluck my eyebrows, am superb with make up and all that. However, I'm also extremely intelligent and find discussing basic hygiene and self care to be tediously boring and trite. Some of the prettiest women I know are also very intelligent and have more on their minds than discussing what's on sale at the mall and which shade of pink is in this season.
I agree totally. The easiest way to display a lack of confidence is to allow a woman see you become posessive over her. All this translates to is a guy not being confident enough to achieve intimacy from other women if his woman is testing this by maintaining a cuckold of male friends.
I do however disagree with your second point. It's all too common a situation that a woman lacks the integrity to be upfront about her intentions and enjoys the security she receives from the boyfriend, but still desires the attentions of a desirable male. Your statement makes the assumption that women operate under benevolent intent. Lots of women have their cake and eat it too. The whole reason this thread is a common one is because men sense this on some level.
Actually, I think it's more a case of men tend to feel threatened by other men who might hit on "their" woman. Even if the woman has no interest whatsoever in a guy that hits on her out of the blue...it's quite common for her boyfriend or husband to feel the need to "defend his honor" and "protect his territory" from what he perceives as intruders or threats. It's part of a man's human nature to do this.
You would unless his attention was more reinforcing than maintaining the appearance of steadfast adhereance to your very ideology.
No, I wouldn't. I'm not one to form surface friendships. The friends I have are very important to me and will be for the rest of my life. I will never allow some new person walk in and interfere in those friendships. Even if I genuinely loved a guy that did that, I would still dump him because there is no room in my life for insecure control freaks, period, and ultimately, anyone who would expect me to give up my friends is a control freak.
You'd be suprised what people would be willing to sacrifice for what they perceive as quality intimacy.
Quality intimacy can be had with virtually anyone if you know how to create it. Genuine friendships with people you care about and who care about you take more time to build and should never be sacrificed to appease someone else's insecurity.
Rare is the man who has the sack large enough to even suggest a woman ought to put off her friends (male or otherwise), but the point is the guy should never be in the position of having to make an ultimatum like this - the woman (and man) should know this intrinsically. If you have a quality relationship it's simply a matter of course to want to exclusively attend to the person you're intimate with, and any exceptions imply a less than ideal situation in the relationship. Being married for 8.5 years, my wife asks me if she can go to see friends out of respect and a desire to accomoddate me and I respond in kind when I am doing something social without her, but the fact remains that we do this because we are our first priorities to each other rather than it being an insecurity or posessiveness that debilatates us.
I've had an amazing relationship and I've had one where the man was a control freak. In the good relationship there was trust and mutual respect as well as the understanding and encouragement that each partner not only should, but must be an individual with their own interest and friends. Friendships and relationships with family are crucial to a person's happiness just as much as having a good relationship with their significant other. There should never be any need or expectation for either person to have to ask to maintain those other relationships.