A woman who is being too careful because of her wall

[jafyk]

I've been talking to this single mom (Billie) for close to a month now. We've made out without the sex. I've woken up in her bed twice and she didn't mind kissing me in front of her girl friends and kid. We communicate frequently with the occassional few days breaks in between. She has a good sense of humor and a good imagination and even given each other nick names where we are supposedly ass-asins,lol. The problem is that 1) We've not done it yet and it's been hard trying to get her out on a date as she says she's been very busy. Today she told me that the reason she had not been able to give me more is because of the wall she has from her 3 long term relationships in 12 yrs. That she likes me and bla... Anyway, I'm not sure what to make of this because I decided a long time ago I was not going to try to save any woman. I'm doing the things I enjoy doing while meeting other girls(potential plates) in the process. How do I handle this situation with Billie? I do like her but I'm concerned that if she's taking too long to break down her wall, I'd loose interest. Please advise. Thanks guys.

 

[apusislaya]

she's screwed up, and she wants a man to keep.....a way to break the wall is play a nice guy, clingy, needy, etc, so that she knows you'll stick around. once you get it, get out man.

 

[KontrollerX]

Stop wasting your time with a cold fish.

If you are not up to your nuts in her guts by the third date it is an automatic next.

She has massive baggage from her last relationship and that is just not the kind of girl a DJ goes after.

A DJ only goes after healthy chicks with their sh!t together.

Its very sad that she had this big breakup but its not in your best interests to stick around and feel sorry for her and hope she comes around and gives up the pvssy for you eventually in 6 months to a year to two years etc, etc.

You will be associated with her bad feelings surrounding the breakup and ultimately become the rebound guy and be dumped once she feels better and is ready to go after what she really wants in a guy.

 

[DonGorgon]

It all simply means she has not chosen YOU!

 

[trd323]

She has a wall because she has put all of her trust in these relationships and she has gotten burned big time. Now that she even is trying to make things work with you is admirable. Yes, you will have to go through a little more because of past relationships and her having a kid.

She is just warning you early of her situation(admirable and not leading you on). I was in the same situation a month and a half ago. Dating a beauty queen(currently holding the title). She got burned and made me wait a month or about 6 dates before she trusted me completely. Everything was well worth it and now is my current girlfriend.

She is imperfect and this is what makes her beautiful.

 

[jafyk]

Stop wasting your time with a cold fish.

If you are not up to your nuts in her guts by the third date it is an automatic next.

She has massive baggage from her last relationship and that is just not the kind of girl a DJ goes after.

A DJ only goes after healthy chicks with their sh!t together.

Its very sad that she had this big breakup but its not in your best interests to stick around and feel sorry for her and hope she comes around and gives up the pvssy for you eventually in 6 months to a year to two years etc, etc.

You will be associated with her bad feelings surrounding the breakup and ultimately become the rebound guy and be dumped once she feels better and is ready to go after what she really wants in a guy.

Well, we have yet to even go out on a proper date. I don't necessarily feel like I'm there for her. She's not really asked me for anything. So you want me to leave her and go...go where? It's not like I live with her or she's the only girl I'm talking. Although, of all the girls I'm currently talking to she's the one that sounds like there could be something there. Thanks for the reminder I do agree with you there might be a chance I'm getting played so at least I have that at the back of my mind.I want more from a girl than sex (gets old) At the same I'm leaning towards the poster below which I'm about to respond to.

 

[jafyk]

She has a wall because she has put all of her trust in these relationships and she has gotten burned big time. Now that she even is trying to make things work with you is admirable. Yes, you will have to go through a little more because of past relationships and her having a kid.

She is just warning you early of her situation(admirable and not leading you on). I was in the same situation a month and a half ago. Dating a beauty queen(currently holding the title). She got burned and made me wait a month or about 6 dates before she trusted me completely. Everything was well worth it and now is my current girlfriend.

She is imperfect and this is what makes her beautiful.

I understand where you are coming from. I've had similar experiences in the past with girls talking about trust bla bla like I haven't been played by a woman before. That is why I'm not as patient and willing to play hero. While it may be hard to trust and move on. Girls should learn to get on with it after all they are making it happen in other areas of their lives despite what happened in their past. I guess with this girl my interest level and level of involvement will only increase based on hers. I've been hurt too, lol.

 

[KontrollerX]

"So you want me to leave her and go...go where?"

To a better option, a better plate.

Leave damaged goods to the AFC's, symps and uninitiated.

The time you waste on her could be better spent with one of your other options or a new option that doesn't have any baggage.

She's a waste of time while she's emotionally damaged.

She's already blue balled you for a month and though you may of gotten it elsewhere during that time it doesn't change the fact that she has blue balled you and is bad news for a relationship still being so damaged from her breakup.

"It's not like I live with her or she's the only girl I'm talking. Although, of all the girls I'm currently talking to she's the one that sounds like there could be something there."

No way to know for sure if something is really there or she is just clinging to you for a love connection she lost by losing her boyfriend. Only way to find out for sure is to let her go for now and if she's free in a year and her mind is clear go for it. If she's with someone else thats cool too. Let him be the rebound guy to be dumped and not you.

"Thanks for the reminder I do agree with you there might be a chance I'm getting played so at least I have that at the back of my mind.I want more from a girl than sex (gets old) At the same I'm leaning towards the poster below which I'm about to respond to."

No problem and I can understand where you are coming from but you as a DJ should always be mindful to seek out quality for your goals and a girl that just got out of a big emotional investment is not up to par for what you are looking for in life. As a DJ you want to be looking for a girl that is as ready for a big new relationship as you are and one still hung up over the past is no such girl.

Its not that this chick would be setting out to play you either.

Its just what happens in rebound scenarios quite often.

Girl needs emotional comfort.

She turns to new guy.

They have something of a fun thing going for a while, new guy thinks its going to last but then bam she suddenly recovers thanks to you the new guy being around to lift her out of her pain and you being a reminder of that state of pain are the next thing to go in the next stage of her healing as once healed she will want to seek out the new that does not remind her of the old failed relationship with her long term boyfriend before you.

 

[hanson]

She has a kid man?, I've been in a situation before where an ex-girlfriend of mine was trying to get her daughter to call me "dad" after 3 months of dating. Girls with priors are looking for stability and to settle down, and honestly after the first couple ****s you realize how much you don't want a stupid kid in your life.

 

[jafyk]

"So you want me to leave her and go...go where?"

To a better option, a better plate.

Leave damaged goods to the AFC's, symps and uninitiated.

The time you waste on her could be better spent with one of your other options or a new option that doesn't have any baggage.

She's a waste of time while she's emotionally damaged.

She's already blue balled you for a month and though you may of gotten it elsewhere during that time it doesn't change the fact that she has blue balled you and is bad news for a relationship still being so damaged from her breakup.

"It's not like I live with her or she's the only girl I'm talking. Although, of all the girls I'm currently talking to she's the one that sounds like there could be something there."

No way to know for sure if something is really there or she is just clinging to you for a love connection she lost by losing her boyfriend. Only way to find out for sure is to let her go for now and if she's free in a year and her mind is clear go for it. If she's with someone else thats cool too. Let him be the rebound guy to be dumped and not you.

"Thanks for the reminder I do agree with you there might be a chance I'm getting played so at least I have that at the back of my mind.I want more from a girl than sex (gets old) At the same I'm leaning towards the poster below which I'm about to respond to."

No problem and I can understand where you are coming from but you as a DJ should always be mindful to seek out quality for your goals and a girl that just got out of a big emotional investment is not up to par for what you are looking for in life. As a DJ you want to be looking for a girl that is as ready for a big new relationship as you are and one still hung up over the past is no such girl.

Its not that this chick would be setting out to play you either.

Its just what happens in rebound scenarios quite often.

Girl needs emotional comfort.

She turns to new guy.

They have something of a fun thing going for a while, new guy thinks its going to last but then bam she suddenly recovers thanks to you the new guy being around to lift her out of her pain and you being a reminder of that state of pain are the next thing to go in the next stage of her healing as once healed she will want to seek out the new that does not remind her of the old failed relationship with her long term boyfriend before you.

One of the things that appauls me about guys here is how it's ok for us to screw as many girls as we can and next them when we have had our fill and just move on like they were some object. Who knows this might be why women like this exist. A lot of guys make it sound like once a woman has bad experience, it's over for her and she's worthless. I agree that such women might be difficult to date.
I don't know how recently she broke up. We've not really had any deep discussions on that stuff. When we speak on the phone it's usually light with lots of humor and if we have nothing to talk about we get off the phone and not force the conversation. I think you're assuming that I'm not seeing other girls or that if one of these other girls made a more serious offer I'd dtich them for her. I told her that my life is good and being in a relationship with her will only make my life complicated and so she's not doing me any favors. Even when she shared about this trust issue it was in less than 3 mins. She had made a sexually naughty remark and I told her I didn't know she was like that and she told me there's a reason she's like that hence telling me what she told me. I'm not here waiting for you to tell what I already know. I'm just guaging her I-level while I'm doing my other things. If someone comes along that's willing to move faster I will go with the person. On the flipside i've met a girl and everything happened on the first day we got together( i had thought this girl would be a regular plate considering...)and now she's gone. I guess things aren't just black and white.

 

[KontrollerX]

I'm assuming nothing of the sort.

I'm sure you are seeing other girls.

The fact remains however that this one is just not ready for a relationship.

If you want to proceed with her thats your call.

I am only here to help you and others avoid mistakes that are all too often made.

Of course I know that people ultimately end up making their own judgements on things so definitely go ahead and have at it.

I hope it works out for you but yeah I've said my piece I think its a bad idea.

"One of the things that appauls me about guys here is how it's ok for us to screw as many girls as we can and next them when we have had our fill and just move on like they were some object."

Its a perfectly valid way to live and one that more women are choosing. Guys that do this are just following the women of today's lead and looking out for #1 first like the women of today do for themselves.

"Who knows this might be why women like this exist."

No, women decided to kill chivalry and become Sex in the City caricatures. Again they reap what they sow.

"A lot of guys make it sound like once a woman has bad experience, it's over for her and she's worthless. I agree that such women might be difficult to date."

I never said she was worthless for you completely.

Just for right now.

You are setting yourself up to get burned to proceed with her.

I'm just trying to pull you away from the fire.

Not trying to attack you man.

And again if you think she's just great as she is now go for it and explore things.

 

[Igetit!]

You will be associated with her bad feelings surrounding the breakup and ultimately become the rebound guy and be dumped once she feels better and is ready to go after what she really wants in a guy.

Hey Jafyk,

That advice from KontrollerX is 100% correct. That line he said about associating her bad feelings with you is on the dot correct. You said that you had already told yourself that you would never "save" a woman. You better stick to that. I've said this before,but I think it also applies here to this situation. If there were a "Top Ten" list of things you should never do in a relationship,you are dangerously close to doing the #2 thing that you should never do. And that is,"Becoming her therapist". Don't do it,man. Even if you have the answers to her problems,even if she complains about something that you know that if she were to listen to you,the problem would be solved,still don't do it. This woman said that she has been hurt before. Well, who hasn't? If she's looking for a relationship where she isn't going to get hurt,then she'll be alone for the rest of her life. And that line she gave you about being "too busy" is a lie (imo). You said that the two of you haven't had a date because of this,right? I HATE when women say this "too busy" line.



Well, let me ask you this. Does she eat? What I mean is,does she take the time out of her "busy schedule" to eat food? If she does,then she can have dinner with you. Does she hang out with her family and friends? Or is she just so "busy" that her job is #1,and you,her child,and all her family and friend are in the background? If she can find the time to spend with her child,with her family,and with her girlfriends,then she can do it with you. And if she doesn't it's not because she's so busy that she can't,it's because she CHOOSES not to.

 

[DonGorgon]

Wall BS!!!! She has not chosen YOU so you are having a hard time getting her to do what she loves to do with a guy she really likes...

She like some things about you .. but Sexually its not there..

SO you need to let her know that if she cant or wont give her whole self to you then it wont work... or you could hang around like an AFC while she F's someone else but "loves" you..

 

[Mr. Me]

One of the things that appauls me about guys here is how it's ok for us to screw as many girls as we can and next them when we have had our fill and just move on like they were some object.

The majority of divorces are initiated by, and relationships terminated by, women, not men, so it's not like that this is a guy thing.

But hey look: First, she told you she couldn't date you because she was busy. Then she told you she couldn't date you because she as walls from 3 LTRs. So that means she lied to you - which one's the real excuse?

And it's not like I buy into the "I have walls" reason. Because she didn't have any walls up when she first met you, otherwise she wouldn't have met you and checked you out. And if Brad Pitt called her, likewise, there'd be no walls.

But guys are quick to avoid seeing rejection for what it is and rationalize up the gentle let downs women feed them. And this is one of the major lines they come up with. Sure, it feels better to know that she won't date you because she's suffering from the relationships of the past in which she volunteered to give a combined 12 long years to even though they were horrible.

Just think of the sense that makes. Her first LTR is bad, and after a few years, it's done. But then she goes into another LTR relationship, which also turns out to be bad, and even though she's experienced a bad relationship before and knows how terrible that can be, she stays in this one too. Then after that one was over, she got into yet another. And though that one was terrible, she stayed in there too. A total of 12 years! What does that tell you?

It tells me that typically, she can look back and claim that her relationships were just awful. But she didn't always think they were awful. They were great in the beginning and maybe great for a while. BUT... here's my point... where were her walls then when she was getting into these relationships?

I do like her but I'm concerned that if she's taking too long to break down her wall, I'd loose interest.

What the hell does that mean? So if she takes too long and you've lost interest by then, so what? Why is that a concern? If you lost interest, that means you won't be concerned. You won't care.

Bottom line, all your goofing around with her with silly names and chatting on the phone and cuddling playing footsies in bed asexually and pecking you in front of friends has brought you to the Friend Zone.

I don't know if it's too late to turn it around, but if you can change your interactions with her, back off some, maybe you can trigger a change in her interest.

 

[jafyk]

The majority of divorces are initiated by, and relationships terminated by, women, not men, so it's not like that this is a guy thing.

But hey look: First, she told you she couldn't date you because she was busy. Then she told you she couldn't date you because she as walls from 3 LTRs. So that means she lied to you - which one's the real excuse?

And it's not like I buy into the "I have walls" reason. Because she didn't have any walls up when she first met you, otherwise she wouldn't have met you and checked you out. And if Brad Pitt called her, likewise, there'd be no walls.

But guys are quick to avoid seeing rejection for what it is and rationalize up the gentle let downs women feed them. And this is one of the major lines they come up with. Sure, it feels better to know that she won't date you because she's suffering from the relationships of the past in which she volunteered to give a combined 12 long years to even though they were horrible.

Just think of the sense that makes. Her first LTR is bad, and after a few years, it's done. But then she goes into another LTR relationship, which also turns out to be bad, and even though she's experienced a bad relationship before and knows how terrible that can be, she stays in this one too. Then after that one was over, she got into yet another. And though that one was terrible, she stayed in there too. A total of 12 years! What does that tell you?

It tells me that typically, she can look back and claim that her relationships were just awful. But she didn't always think they were awful. They were great in the beginning and maybe great for a while. BUT... here's my point... where were her walls then when she was getting into these relationships?



What the hell does that mean? So if she takes too long and you've lost interest by then, so what? Why is that a concern? If you lost interest, that means you won't be concerned. You won't care.

Bottom line, all your goofing around with her with silly names and chatting on the phone and cuddling playing footsies in bed asexually and pecking you in front of friends has brought you to the Friend Zone.

I don't know if it's too late to turn it around, but if you can change your interactions with her, back off some, maybe you can trigger a change in her interest.

Ok, go read this post again from the top so you won't miss anything. I do agree with a lot of what u guys are saying. Tomorrow will make the last time I saw her 2 weeks. Prior to then she had invited me over to her place twice although we ended up alone we didn't begin the night alone (her friends were over). I guess all the times we hung out didn't happen with just me and her to begin with. For all I know you guys could be 100% right I just hate being suspicious of every woman I come across it drives me crazy.
Anyway, I sent her a text telling her that we've both has misfortunes of the past and I can't wait for her to tear down her wall. She called me asking me what I mean but I told her I couldn't talk now. I sent her another text telling her that what I mean is that she can't let the wall stand btw us that I can find reasons to walk away but I think she's cool and that's why I'm here. Anyway, she replies saying that she doesn't want me to walk away that she wants me to get to know her. To which I replied, it doesn't matter what she says to me but her actions. Lol, while I was here typing this, this 19 yr old called Bree I had known way back who had a crush on me IMed me and now she's asking me if I want a girlfriend, I tell her "Yes and no". Yes meaning someday, no meaning not today.

 

[jafyk]

Ok, it's hard to do this but I have to admit you guys are right. Tonight she agreed to meet me at the bar and everything went well till we got to her place made out and when it came to the last act she said she wasn't ready and she had to go to bed. She started asking if I was angry. I told her i was disappointed and she kept apologizing and saying how guilty she felt. As I was driving she text me saying "You couldn't possibly imagine how you feel right now" I texted her back and told her to go to bed that we can just be friends. Right now I feel stupid but I know this is one learning experience that will soon be history. I'm gonna passively next her. Afterall friends (especially from a females perspective don't make out etc) and I'm gonna be the way female friends act (only call when they get bored or want something and not call you back when they say and all those flakey things they do) I will do these things till she gets the hint and disappears altogether. The frustrating part is doing everything right and not being able to close the deal.

 

[jafyk]

Here's an update and can anyone interprete what she's trying to do here. She texts me back saying "wow ok then if it's like that. I guess you aren't the guy I thought you were" and "Guess you aren't different just like other men. Take care then" The funny thing is how women have no qualms about telling a guy lets just be friends. Now that I've thrown it back at a female she realizes my BS, lol and would rather not even talk to me anymore. Anyway, I haven't responded to her text as I feel I have nothing to prove and don't wanna keep going back and forth over the same thing.

 

[trd323]

That is why I'm not as patient and willing to play hero. While it may be hard to trust and move on. Girls should learn to get on with it after all they are making it happen in other areas of their lives despite what happened in their past. lol.

Bro. you say this, but everyone on this board gets obsessed with "pickup" after a heartbreak, LJBF, etc. As you can see by the number of members on this board it is not as easy as you think. So, if you like her continue

 

[KontrollerX]

You did the right thing for yourself jafyk.

Just like she wanted to do the right thing for herself by using you as a stepping stone for her emotional wellbeing.

Now you see how selfishness is sometimes important to have for yourself as others have it too even if you don't always see it at first.

You now see beyond her veil of lies and it was never about growing a relationship with you, she never valued you, just what your presence offered to her which was once again the ability to use you as a springboard to emotional health which was a callous action on her part and also extremely unfair to you and immature.

If she wants to heal from her bad relationships she needs to deal with her baggage by seeing a counselor and avoiding relationships until she gets her issues sorted out.

Its very similar to how a drunk should stay off of the road until they get sober.

As for what she was trying to do with her text or whatever it was she is simply trying to get control over the situation and frame it to make herself comfortable with a preconceived idea of how men are evil and just want one thing and she is good.

Any response from you telling her about the unfairness and callousness of what she was doing to you would go right over her head or be ignored or maybe you'd get a glib half assed apology but the big point is not much good would come from you explaining to her the error of her ways.

Women always learn the most powerful lessons through the sounds of silence.

 

[Interceptor]

Jay, if you want physical intimacy , then it is your right. You deserve it, and shouldnt be made to feel guilty about it.
Dont allow yourself to be pulled into any mind game she may want to try to throw at you. Dont be ashamed or feel guilty for wanting sexual intimacy.

Its every man's right to decide when and IF he'll 'wait' for her.
And you do not owe her your 'wait' time. It is YOURS to decide, not hers.

If she is not fulfilling you, then you have no obligation to stay, unless you two decided to simply become platonic friends.

I advise you to stick to your guns now, and do NOT go back and second guess and add any self doubt right now.
Stay on your course. And let her deal with her own issues at her pace. Just like you deal with her issues at your pace, in your manner.

It's ok to be supportive to a woman, but it gets kind of unfair when a woman gains a man's emotional support, yet does not reciprocate in a standard, healthy , romantic, and sexual nature.
Its fine if its her decision. After all, its her life and her body.
You arent obligated to stick around though.


Men do have to realize that women desire trust and security with a man. And women have varying degrees of HOW MUCH they need from each man in order to feel comfortable and secure moving forward in the relationship.
If you have not been giving off the vibe of "Woman, I just want to get laid. Once I bang you , Im history." then, any issue that comes up has more to do with her, rather than you.
Women know men want sex. Its not wrong to want sex.
And she wants it too.
However, she is so afraid of losing her 'power' that she wants to control and manipulate the frame and keep you at arm's length, while she gets what she wants , namely support, intimacy, bonding, companionship, but not let the relationship move forward with sexual intimacy.

If this is truly not about you hound dogging her, then dont worry about this.

However, if she's not feeling comfortable with you (wether you are interested in her, or just want to bang her) , she will 'pace' the relationship and eventually 'ration' out sexual intimacy.
Women do this to assert control, out of fear.
So even a totally normal, healthy and cool guy and find himself with intimacy being rationed out and controlled at her pace.
She's simply more concerned with herself, rather than the relationship.


Ulitmately, I just dont believe this woman is nearly as attracted and interested in you for this 'relationship' to ever move foreward and become something more deeper and meaningful.


It's great to 'be there' for your woman, but when a woman is pacing the relationship, by rationing out physical intimacy, there is a sign of disfunction.Something's not right.

You can't be there for your partner, because she never let you become her 'partner', understand?
Otherwise, you're just the emotional tampon, with emotional support, but platonically...
Which is not an adult, romantic and sexual relationship at all.

Now, she appears to be angry with you, and plays the blame game, and uses shaming tactics, because you've finally seen how she was manipulating the situation, and she doesnt like it. You caught her BS, and she now feels offended, and is blaming you for any issues you two had.

Be very aware of women who use shaming tactics.
If you have options, you have no reason to stick around and wait for her to go on a self help binge and try to work out her problems so she can deal with these types of issues with love, intelligence, and maturity.

We can love a person for their POTENTIAL...
...but ultimately we are dealing with WHO THEY ARE NOW.
(thank you Lovely Lady for this insight)