A woman to be grateful of.

[LiveYourDream]

@LiveYourDream Wow, that's one helluva disclaimer. You're right on the defensive now aren't you?

You word yourself using "she" and "you". You weave it into a sh!tload of assumptions about how we feel, which in all truth you can't know.

I don't buy your defensive rationalizations.

I was simply aware of how inflamed you seemed by what I wrote. You made it clear you felt you and your GF were personally attacked and characterized, in inaccurate ways, by what I wrote. I was shocked as it was so far off of what I intended. I followed up, clarifying that was not the case, for your benefit. I felt if you could cool off, from feeling personally attacked, perhaps you could re-read and deeply consider what I shared, with the heart with which it was intended.

You are misunderstanding where I am coming from. I am not attached to being 'right,' in the way others often are. I shared with the hope of helping you and your GF avoid a terrible trap that many do not see. I followed-up, to your initial upset and here again, for the very same reason. I offer my sincerity. How you receive it, is for you. I wish you and your GF nothing but the best.

 

[guru1000]

LYD, your frequent disclaimers, "politeness," gingerly style of writing, and ostensible guise of "sharing to help" in place of defensiveness appears a bit contrived and manipulative to the reader.

As someone who continually seeks to improve themselves: If you are truly sincere in that desire, as I perceive, there is a goldmine for you in the first sentence I offered. Not everyone is capable or willing to be rigorously honest with themselves, in such direct, inner, self-evaluation. I suspect you are and thus I offered the reflection for your personal consideration, with great sincerity, should you choose to consider it.

 

[Serenity]

@LiveYourDream In reality I react 1/100th of how much it seems I react through text. It's a seriously handicapped form of communication, that said it doesn't mean I wasn't annoyed.

So maybe your intentions were different, but you do a poor job of being clear. Sprinkling "you" and "she" along with what's gonna happen and how it's gonna make us feel is stepping across my boundary. Please understand that for years some b!tch of a mother told me what to feel, what to think and literally brainwashed me. With a great degree of conviction too, like she was bound to be right about my destiny.

I know that to be the exact reason I have a strong dislike for other peoples projections, as if they know how it will go down.

Me and my girlfriend was characterized in an inaccurate way by what you wrote. Wouldn't go so far as to say attacked though. I'll say it again, the way you formulated your post made assumptions about us for which you have no valid foundation. As less articulate people would say "that sh!t ain't true".

Next time warn me about the "trap" or risk and reason it out more objectively why you think so, without putting me into the context of your explanation please.

 

[ZTIME]

Nice gesture on the vehicle from her, and I'm sure the best intentions are meant with that kind offer.

A couple things I may be concerned with when approaching this situation.

1. When she does aquire her license (which I'm assuming will happen soon) will you then buy your own vehicle?

2. In some cases (not to say it's yours) people have the tendency to use things like this as a control device. i.e. I don't want you to go to this place and you're not using my car to get there. Or If you can't do this for me, you have no vehicle to get to work tomorrow.

Since I have no idea how your relationship works, I can only offer a limited amount of advice.

Please keep in mind that more often then not the dynamics of a relationship changes once two people live together. That's normally when you will see the above mentioned #2 happen.

 

[LiveYourDream]

@LiveYourDream In reality I react 1/100th of how much it seems I react through text. It's a seriously handicapped form of communication, that said it doesn't mean I wasn't annoyed.

So maybe your intentions were different, but you do a poor job of being clear. Sprinkling "you" and "she" along with what's gonna happen and how it's gonna make us feel is stepping across my boundary. Please understand that for years some b!tch of a mother told me what to feel, what to think and literally brainwashed me. With a great degree of conviction too, like she was bound to be right about my destiny.

I know that to be the exact reason I have a strong dislike for other peoples projections, as if they know how it will go down.

Me and my girlfriend was characterized in an inaccurate way by what you wrote. Wouldn't go so far as to say attacked though. I'll say it again, the way you formulated your post made assumptions about us for which you have no valid foundation. As less articulate people would say "that sh!t ain't true".

Next time warn me about the "trap" or risk and reason it out more objectively why you think so, without putting me into the context of your explanation please.

@Grewd Thank you for helping me understand your perspective. I understand more clearly now, how the words I chose were offensive to you. I am sorry I was not more careful and sensitive in how I expressed my concern. I apologize. I appreciate your feedback and the greater understanding I have gained. I will do better moving forward. Thank you for the clarity.

 

[Serenity]

@Grewd Thank you for helping me understand your perspective. I understand more clearly now, how the words I chose were offensive to you. I am sorry I was not more careful and sensitive in how I expressed my concern. I apologize. I appreciate your feedback and the greater understanding I have gained. I will do better moving forward. Thank you for the clarity.

Apology accepted.

With regards to your point. I remain confident in my evaluations, which are founded on very real and intimate experience with my girlfriend. To be clear I mean intimate in the emotional sense, not the physical sense although that happens very frequently. To be clear, sometimes we talk about things and feelings and sometimes I just fvck her brains out.

Most importantly we don't economically depend on each other. She's not saving me as if I had no other options, I could easily take a loan and quickly pay it off. She's helping me out providing a better alternative, but I'd handle it fine without it.

As said the car is hers, but she will benefit as well. I'll drive her around sometimes, I already did that with my old car anyways. I don't mind as long as I have the time. She's also going to take the license, so she can drive too. But that's probably gonna be a while, might get my own car then might not. We'll assess the need for it when that time comes.

Honestly I don't see the big issue you're making out of it.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Honestly I don't see the big issue you're making out of it.

@Grewd I know you don't. I did not expect you immediately would either. That's why I specifically went into drawn out detail and made a super long post about it, rather than a two sentence summary.

Hopefully, it won't be an issue at all, the way I perceive it could. I simply felt moved to share my concerns and so I did.

Your relationship and future together is between the two of you. It's not about my opinion or poorly written projections. (Be sure to let all those go, in case you haven't already.)

Follow your own inner compass. Feel great about whatever you choose.

 

[Genos]

For the record, reading LiveYourDream's posts, I never once felt or got the impression that they were offensive, contrived, or manipulative. Rather, LYD's posts seemed understanding of the complexity of the issue and were likely intended to discuss things without coming off as abrasive. They could have just as easily said "This could be bad for your relationship" in very blunt terms, but explaining things very clearly is the better option in my opinion.

In the end, I'd say I see some value in LYD's warning, and that it's something worth considering and keeping in mind. But - nothing on this earth is really set it in stone, it could just not come up at all. All we're doing is providing a word of caution Grewd - if you're aware of potential issues that could arise, you'll be better equipped to deal with them (if they do in fact arise) than if you were blindsided by them.

 

[hockeyfreak79]

Wait, what you are letting her move in rent free? Really no one else caught this? That's a high pedastal man. Is this why she wants to buy you a car?

Me personally I would man up & buy my own car, what I would want to drive.

LYD's post is chalk full of wisdom, it wasn't targeted at you at all. What he wrote was absolutely gold as far as how relationship dynamics evolve over time with said given circumstances. He is by no means a psychic, but that would be pretty damn kool if he was.

 

[ZTIME]

@Grewd Thank you for helping me understand your perspective. I understand more clearly now, how the words I chose were offensive to you. I am sorry I was not more careful and sensitive in how I expressed my concern. I apologize. I appreciate your feedback and the greater understanding I have gained. I will do better moving forward. Thank you for the clarity.

This is a forum of posts and threads where people ask for opinions or advice from other posters. It was asked for and you replied.

I find that most of your advice (although a lot of typing) is insightful.

Please don't apologize for excersing your right to an opinion. It seems to lessen the validity of the post, of which you offered valid insight.

That's all.

 

[LiveYourDream]

This is a forum of posts and threads where people ask for opinions or advice from other posters. It was asked for and you replied.

I find that most of your advice (although a lot of typing) is insightful.

Please don't apologize for excersing your right to an opinion. It seems to lessen the validity of the post, of which you offered valid insight.

That's all.

@ZTIME I appreciate your sharing.

My post to @Grewd came from a deep genuine concern, for him and his girlfriend and the success of their relationship. It was not some flippant post. I weighed whether or not to share my view, as I suspected it would disturb him, and his plans, or perhaps invoke doubt in what he had already done. I did not take that lightly. To me, the concern I eventually shared was worthy of any temporary discomfort or the inconvenience of changing his plans.

So, I shared it. I didn't do it for me. I did it for him. I did it for both of them. I felt it was important enough, in my view, that I was willing to upset him and his plans. I weighed that heavily. Once I started writing, I just wrote. I did not really consider how I conveyed the message, as much as I wanted to be sure to convey it clearly. That doesn't make much sense, I know.

I think I conveyed it clearly. In the process, I was insensitive in ways I did not perceive at the time. I see that now. I apologized for the insensitivity in how I presented the message and that my projections were offensive to Grewd. I honor that. I did not, and do not apologize for the greater message or to minimize it in any way.

Why did I care so much that Grewd was offended by my post? I want the best for Grewd. I still believe in the value of the message that motivated the post, and it's ability to significantly assist him and his GF for the better. My caring did not end with his initial upset. My caring sought to find resolution. From that place of resolution, I knew I had shared my heart clearly. That's what matter's to me.

I am not attached to Grewd's final choice. Whether or not he reconsiders at this point, that's for him to decide. I simply wanted to share my perspective clearly, for his consideration. I have done that now.

Yes....lots and lots...and lots...of typing in my posts. It is my intent to become more concise. This thread sure was not my best example of that. I appreciate your patience, as I work to improve.

 

[guru1000]

It is my intent to become more concise.

 

[ZTIME]

@ZTIME I appreciate your sharing.

My post to @Grewd came from a deep genuine concern, for him and his girlfriend and the success of their relationship. It was not some flippant post. I weighed whether or not to share my view, as I suspected it would disturb him, and his plans, or perhaps invoke doubt in what he had already done. I did not take that lightly. To me, the concern I eventually shared was worthy of any temporary discomfort or the inconvenience of changing his plans.

So, I shared it. I didn't do it for me. I did it for him. I did it for both of them. I felt it was important enough, in my view, that I was willing to upset him and his plans. I weighed that heavily. Once I started writing, I just wrote. I did not really consider how I conveyed the message, as much as I wanted to be sure to convey it clearly. That doesn't make much sense, I know.

I think I conveyed it clearly. In the process, I was insensitive in ways I did not perceive at the time. I see that now. I apologized for the insensitivity in how I presented the message and that my projections were offensive to Grewd. I honor that. I did not, and do not apologize for the greater message or to minimize it in any way.

Why did I care so much that Grewd was offended by my post? I want the best for Grewd. I still believe in the value of the message that motivated the post, and it's ability to significantly assist him and his GF for the better. My caring did not end with his initial upset. My caring sought to find resolution. From that place of resolution, I knew I had shared my heart clearly. That's what matter's to me.

I am not attached to Grewd's final choice. Whether or not he reconsiders at this point, that's for him to decide. I simply wanted to share my perspective clearly, for his consideration. I have done that now.

Yes....lots and lots...and lots...of typing in my posts. It is my intent to become more concise. This thread sure was not my best example of that. I appreciate your patience, as I work to improve.

Ohh boy, or girl as the case may be. If you truly give advice as you believe... It's ok to leave it at that.

Working to better your posts to suit the tastes of others would truly devalue what it is you have to say. NO??

It's the information or insight that you provide here that adds value, not the reaction. Do you see this differently?

If it's your TRUE goal to add a helping hand, don't try to put a glove on it for valued comfort to those about to fall off a cliff.

Keep posting kid!

 

[wifehunter]

Count your blessings!!! Does she have a cute sister?!?! LOL!!!

 

[Fireballs]

LiveYourDreams post was spot on.

The bottom line is - No matter how much she loves you, hypergamy is always in play.

 

[Serenity]

@hockeyfreak79 Yes I am letting her move in rent free. I told her she could rather put the rent money in her savings account, which we'll use to buy a house later. We're equal, her pedestal isn't higher than mine.

@LiveYourDream Even if this has a remote chance of becoming a mess I'm still gonna do it. I trust my girlfriend that it won't become an issue, I sure won't make trouble out of this. If I took your advice seriously I might have made a mess of this.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

So I have a question for you Grewd:

Why can't you have your girlfriend loan you the money and you just pay her back the 12k? That way there isn't any interest or anything like that so you don't pay more than you borrow (or if she does charge you interest, you know what kind of chick she is and will see through her facade, if there is one). Plus, the car will then be written in your name rather than hers, so in case something goes sour, you keep the car and get to move on. No paperwork involved in a breakup either and if she gives you the money and things go bad before you can finish paying her back, you won't need to pay her the rest if you don't want to because there wasn't (shouldn't) be any kind of legal documents over her lending you money. You could still pay her back if you wanted to I guess, but there won't be any real repercussions if you don't. If she says no, then you know that something is up. It's a win-win situation no matter how this plays out because then you can see her for who she truly is much more clearly.

 

[LiveYourDream]

We're equal, her pedestal isn't higher than mine

If that ^^^^ is true, how do you HONESTLY reconcile your next two statements?

I am letting her move in rent free.

I told her she could rather put the rent money in her savings account, which we'll use to buy a house later.

In my view, those choices are neither smart financially nor for the longevity of your relationship. Why would you, allow yourself to choose them? The only possible explanation I can come up with is oneitis. AKA: I suspect you'll say it's because you love and trust her so much. How does that justify making illogical and financially self-sacrificing choices, especially when unneeded?

Why not simply contribute equally each month to the rent, the expenses and a joint savings account, in both your names and eliminate any potential issues, right from the start? Why engage risk when you don't need to? Maybe you are trying to prove you are generous, back to her for buying you a car to drive, or maybe to others?

 

[ZTIME]

I went back and read the original OP's post. No question indicated.

Perhaps he was seeking social validation of his story online.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Even if this has a remote chance of becoming a mess I'm still gonna do it.

I wish you the best with that.

I trust my girlfriend that it won't become an issue

In your state of oneitis, you have seem to lost sight of the fact that women's emotions do not originate from a place logic or their control. As much as she is a reasonable, loving woman, your counting on her emotions to be logical, because she loves you is misguided and naive.

If I took your advice seriously I might have made a mess of this.

Truth can be messy sometimes. Avoiding it doesn't make it go away. Couples who engage truth together, regardless of how messy, learn to weather the storms of life together in meaningful ways.

You appear to be mistaking your confidence for the wisdom of experience. I don't wish to instill fear but I caution you that they are not the same thing. I suspect that you will hear from many others, with greater experience than mine.

I understand the honeymoon effect of moving in together. It's a force and high of it's own. I know that. I also understand, what life is like long after the first honeymoon. I am not talking about when love or sex diminishes. In my experience they don't have to. I am talking about what happens when perhaps you each experience your own finances and your individual wants and needs and financial priorities differently. I know everything looks rosy walking into living together.

Co-mingling expenses and finances is not as emotionally cut and dry, over the long haul, as I imagine you think. If you were wealthy enough to support her without a second thought, than I say Happy Honeymoon to both of you. As clearly, you intend for her to purchase a car, you to pay the rent, and her to build a savings, there will be plenty of opportunity to build resentments, over time.

I understand you are in love, she's amazing and you feel confident that precautions likely don't apply to you two. What I know is that is what the honeymoon period feels like. That is why it is called the honeymoon phase. I am not trying to ruin your honeymoon together. I am not.

I am trying to help you set a solid foundation, for the long haul. I get the blindness of oneitis. I get the honeymoon confidence in one another that makes you feel invincible together. I am not posting to harass you. I am posting because I wish for you to have the best shot for the long haul. That's all.