A-Unit: Nutrition + the "right" stimulus = growth.

[onyx]

ok so wud this b a good work out

monday:

flat bench press
incline bench press
incline flyes
close grip press

tues:

deadlifts
good mornings
rows

weds:
off

thurs:
squats
chin ups

fri:
db shoulder press
upright rows
shrugs


any help?

 

[EFFORT]

ok so wud this b a good work out

monday:

Squat- 2x6, 1x20 (I think newbies can do this set if they start with a weight thats too easy and slowly work up each week in weight)
Leg Press (lLIGHT and DEEP this will cool you from the squats) 2x15
Heavy Abbs- 3x10


weds:

Incline Bench 3x5
Flat Dumbbell Bench or Fly- 2x10
Skull Crushers- 3x8
Lateral Raise or Dumbbell Shoulder Press- 3x10


fri:
Pull Ups or Hammer Pulldown- 3x8
Barbell Row or Hammer Row- 3x6
Dumbbell Curl- 1x10
Deadlift- 2x6, 1x20 (same format as the 20rep squat)
Pullthroughs- 2x15 (LIGHT and DEEP)

any help?

I wrote in the improvements

There a lot of different ways to do this i'm writing this very basic so the anyone can use it and i'm leaving out low rep sets since that could be dangerous to someone that doesn't know how to do them.

 

[Road Demon]

A-Unit. (Good idea to Repost EFFORT).

I agree with you 100%. Excellent Post.

Multiple range of motion, large muscle group exercise will create a greater neurohormonal response as more muscle mass is required. I agree with your order of importance.

squat
deadlift
incline bench
lat row/pulldowns/dips

Yes, I know what I am talking about and A-Unit also does too.

Again Excellent post A-Unit. Easy to understand.

j

 

[Warboss Alex]

Just one point - I disagree with EFFORT's choice of a 20 rep floor deadlift. I'd feel much better with a 20 rep rack deadlift instead; your heavy sets can be done from the rack or the floor. Everything else is golden in this thread.

 

[G-Star]

Chin ups and Pull ups? Hmm...to be honest I do not know whats the difference between them, can someone tell me? Is it the way u grip, like over wide/narrow grip, and can someone also tell me the different effect on muscles when gripping the bar with the palm facing inwards and out wards?

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I'll probably confuse them in my mind right now, but the difference IS in the grip.

Underhand Grip - works biceps more and imparts a narrower back exercise. These will kill your back and biceps, in a good way.

Overhand Grip - Much like weighted pull downs, but they're akin to climbing. Very difficult, too.

You can do a mixture as you press yourself to accomplish more of them. Normally I do Pullups (I'll refer to these as Overhand Grips) for several sets. If my progress fumbles, I'll switch to Chin Ups (I'll refer to these as Underhand Grips).

I either exercises until I fail at making progress, normally after deadlifts. If I want to push myself, I might add in Heavy Wide Back PullDowns. Anything to get more reps in for my back. At least for me, I never want to leave the gym feeling like I left with any extra in my pullups or chinups. For those just starting these, a few reps might be difficult, so rather than do 1 or 2 and just fall, I would RECO doing 1, then 1, then 1, then 1, then holding the position, or adding a little weight if you could only do 1. And perhaps do a heavy weighted Pulldown too. Anything to get progress. The strength from the pullups/chinups is not equivalent, but it is transferable. Meaning, if you're 180, and you do 5 pull downs at 180, you won't do 5 pullups, BUT, you can make progress this way. Also, as your deadlifts improve, so too will your back strength. But each week it should be a minor improvement in some way that will end up in adding 1 rep more soon...


A-Unit

 

[Oxide]

Awesome thread as well.

I have a question about going for 20 reps.

Say I am doing bench and doing 160lbs x 5 as max.

Would I take a weight that is say 130 and go 10... and keep going to 11... pause.. 12... pause... 13...drop the bar on my face?

How in the world do you go for 20 when your body quits at 12? Spotter? wouldn't that undermine the point?

 

[EFFORT]

Save the 20reps for Squats.

Basically the description of the 20 rep squat was put out there so people have a guide of what its supposed to feel like (hell). You pick a weight you can only get 10 with but them some how some way unknown to yourself while in the zone you dig down deep and get another rep, then another, your dying you have to pause but then you get another etc until you hit 20.

But as a newbie doing 20rep squats, start out with a weight you can get 30reps with, then from there add weight each week 5-10lbs.

 

[Oxide]

This is what I'm doing currently. How does it look:

Monday:

Incline Chest 2x5 burnout set 1x10
DB flat bench press 2x6
Dips 2xfailure
DB standing bicep curls. 3x6
Forearms

Wed:
Squats 2x5 1x10 burnout
Stiff Legs 2x6
Calf rasiers 2x failure

Frid:

Deadlift 2x5 1x10 burnout
Shoulder shrugs 3x failure (I go 55, 65, 75, 90 in a row for the first set. then rest. 90 again. rest. 75)
DB standing bicep curls. 3x6
Forearms


I throw in abs when I find the time

 

[EFFORT]

I would put your dead and squat day on mon and friday, could leave the shrugs out

 

[Oxide]

Yeah that's what it is actually, so there is enough rest.

can't give up shrugs, gotta get em traps

 

[EFFORT]

The deads will take care of the traps.

 

[Flabbergasped?]

My routine:

Mon:
Squats, 3x20. I'm starting off on them, so I'll start at a low weight, then start bringing up the weight. Good?

Wed:
Bench Press, 3x5. What are the benefits of inclined vs. normal bench? Starting at 100, moving up 2.5 lbs a week.

Fri:
Deadlift, 3x5. Moving up 5 lbs a week sounds reasonable. Don't know whether I should do stiff legged or bent legged. Thoughts?

My workouts seem light, but I do a lot besides that. Tues, Thurs, Sat, Sun, I do 2 hours each time of breakdancing. Pyramid sets of pushups and crunches every other day, and a minute of planche work a day (http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/)

What's the scoop on warmup sets? I usually bench the bar to get my chest used to the motion.

 

[Throttle]

http://www.ironaddicts.com/Warm-ups.html

 

[Aaron B]

The deads will take care of the traps.

I agree.

I injured my back and couldn't do deads for over a year. Just started back and my traps are tore the **** up!

Here's the routine I've been doing now that I can squat and deadlift again:

Day 1:
Front Squat
Deadlift (usually 10 sets of 3 reps)
Bent-Over Row

Day 2:
Cardio

Day 3:
Barbell Bench Press
Pull-Ups
Dips

Day 4:
Cardio

Day 5:
Hanging Clean and Press
Clean and Press
Military Press
Vertical Row
Face Pulls
Side Lateral Raises

Day 6: OFF

Day 7: OFF

My shoulders and upper back are lagging which accounts for Day 5.

 

[Viroid]

One other thing that was bad for me was OVERwork, and IronAddict highlighted that for me. Although I'd consume ALOT, both in protein and carbs, and put my time in, I'd still be there 4 days or even 3, going REGARDLESS if my body was sore or not. That's bad. If you're not sore and you lifted balls out, GOOD. But if you are sore from deads + squats, it's best to wait. A-Unit

This is not true. You can train if youre sore. Just because a muscle is sore does not mean it hasnt recovered.

If I add just 5lbs to my workout in squats over a year at 50x per year, I'd go up 150lbs!!! In 1 year. Don't think you wouldn't be big??? If you add 2.5lbs to deads or bench, going when you've full recuperated and are ready to go balls out AGAIN, you've added 75lbs to your deads or bench. That's huge, even for the guy starting at 125 on bench, he'd be at 200 by year end. A tremendous feat. And the Deads if he was at 200, would be 275. However, squats and deads would go up MORE and QUICKEr, because they're larger muscle groups, but you have to give them TIME.

That's longevity planning. Granted, you might not be rock solid muscle at 225lbs, but what if you were 150lbs more on squats and 75lbs more on deads/bench? How would you feel? How would you look? Do you think you'd be strong? Would it matter if you NEVER did calves, or hamstrings, or biceps? And you ate like a mofo? THEN you might "consider" adding in supplementary exercises. And then, you're curls, though you never did any, would go up 10-20lbs without even LIFTING on curls, just b/c your MAJOR weights went up. How would that feel?
A-Unit

I agree with most of this post as far as using basic core exercises. My problem with it is this: its more of a POWERLIFERS routine than a bodybuilders routine. Powerlifters dont much care about getting bigger until they cant get any stronger, then in order to get stronger they have to get bigger. So for them strength comes first, size comes second.

Will you get bigger with this routine? Yes. Stronger? Hell yes. But you will reach a point when you cannot get any stronger. And at that point, the only way for you to get stronger is for you to get bigger. And how can you get bigger if you cant get any stronger?? Do you see my point? There are better ways to gain muscle.

Dont get me wrong, ive used this routine during strength training for sport. I enjoyed it. I continued to use it when I was through with sports because gaining strength was a huge motivator for me. So, if you like this routine and its something you can stick to, then by all means do so. Because finding something you enjoy doing and can stick to is the most important thing in this game.

 

[EFFORT]

This is not true. You can train if youre sore. Just because a muscle is sore does not mean it hasnt recovered.



I agree with most of this post as far as using basic core exercises. My problem with it is this: its more of a POWERLIFERS routine than a bodybuilders routine. Powerlifters dont much care about getting bigger until they cant get any stronger, then in order to get stronger they have to get bigger. So for them strength comes first, size comes second.

Will you get bigger with this routine? Yes. Stronger? Hell yes. But you will reach a point when you cannot get any stronger. And at that point, the only way for you to get stronger is for you to get bigger. And how can you get bigger if you cant get any stronger?? Do you see my point? There are better ways to gain muscle.

Dont get me wrong, ive used this routine during strength training for sport. I enjoyed it. I continued to use it when I was through with sports because gaining strength was a huge motivator for me. So, if you like this routine and its something you can stick to, then by all means do so. Because finding something you enjoy doing and can stick to is the most important thing in this game.

Your reasoning is off. Unless your Squat and Dead are 400-500lbs, Row-275+lbs, Benching in the 300's then strength training will give you the most size (assuming your getting protein 2g per body weight and the rest of your diet is together)

Until you can lift in that range your fooling yourself thinking that bodybuilding training will add you size.

 

[Viroid]

Your reasoning is off. Unless your Squat and Dead are 400-500lbs, Row-275+lbs, Benching in the 300's then strength training will give you the most size (assuming your getting protein 2g per body weight and the rest of your diet is together)

Until you can lift in that range your fooling yourself thinking that bodybuilding training will add you size.

The reason you think my reasoning is off is because you dont understand the outcome when training with a focus on muscle gain. Do you know how I know that? Because I used to think the exact same way as you. You obviously know what happens when you focus on strength gains. Your muscles get bigger! Just not as fast as when you focus on muscle gain. Training for muscle gain is a progressive load, you will get stronger. Just not as strong as when you focus on strength gain. Get it? Ive been strength training/bodybuilding for 12 years. Ive been around the block a few times, bud.

 

[shaunuk]

The reason you think my reasoning is off is because you dont understand the outcome when training with a focus on muscle gain. Do you know how I know that? Because I used to think the exact same way as you. You obviously know what happens when you focus on strength gains. Your muscles get bigger! Just not as fast as when you focus on muscle gain. Training for muscle gain is a progressive load, you will get stronger. Just not as strong as when you focus on strength gain. Get it? Ive been strength training/bodybuilding for 12 years. Ive been around the block a few times, bud.

Erm, so in your opinion, how should a bodybuilder's routine differ from the basic routines proposed here? Why would it possibly be different (serious question...)?

-shaun

 

[EFFORT]

The reason you think my reasoning is off is because you dont understand the outcome when training with a focus on muscle gain. Do you know how I know that? Because I used to think the exact same way as you. You obviously know what happens when you focus on strength gains. Your muscles get bigger! Just not as fast as when you focus on muscle gain. Training for muscle gain is a progressive load, you will get stronger. Just not as strong as when you focus on strength gain. Get it? Ive been strength training/bodybuilding for 12 years. Ive been around the block a few times, bud.

So take your average 165lb guy that wants to add size. His big 3 lifts are poor. You think the best way to size this guy up is to put him on a volume training (bodybuilding style) program where hes using wussy weight to do his sets with? ex max squat is 135lbs so he'll be doing rep work with around 60-80lbs (something like 4x8)

or to put that guy on a powerlifting style routine get his big lifts up to respectable numbers like i outline ex his max squat is 450 now(and he'll have size to match), so now we put him on that same bodybuilding style routine and hes using 250-270lbs for his rep work (something like 4x8)

assuming his eating is good for both methods which way do you think will work better?

Volume training is very effective but only if your using big numbers for your rep work. People get confused because they see the big bodybuilders doing there routines with high volume but miss the fact that the BB's have respectable numbers in the big 3.

Since you've been around the block your big 3 are up there so when your doing your volume training the weight your using for your rep work is giving you your success where as the average guy with sucky big 3's is using wuss weight for his rep work and won't have success.