A privilege to take her on a date - general mental state

[The.Prodigy]

Hey fellas,

I got a question about a specific situation. But could perhaps also use advice on the more broader issue which I’ll start with: to give some context, I’m 30, student of the dj-bible, self-employed, educated, attractive face, well built body after 15 years of gymlife, pretty confident, and a healthy mix between spontaneous and introvert.

In the past I’ve never had an issue dating girls. I’ve had well over 250 girls in the 6-10 rating-range (looks) both one night stands and as girlfriends, regardless of which of the two dynamics, I’ve practically always been able to hit it the first night.

I might make a separate post about it in the future if I can’t seem to resolve it in the short term, but: The general issue: I’ve experienced a significant loss family-wise some time ago (more than 2 years), which also caused my business to go under, and caused a severe mental dip for a period of more than 6 months. Ever since, I’ve felt less confident, more in my feelings, or even better worded; more in need of love and intimacy. Which I presume is off-putting to a lot of girls, understandably. So the general question is, any help in overcoming this, and becoming the carefree, confident and independent guy I was before.

The second, more specific question, which will most likely be related or a side effect to the first issue, ultimately. I’ve met this girl OLD, similar age, similar mixed ethnic background (which is rare where I live). So in my mind, I saw potential. Our conversations are okay, she responds fast, every day, but the first red flag is, she very rarely asks or returns significant interest questions. Which make me think she is more in search of validation than an actual long term interest?

When I asked for her number on the app, she initially asked to talk more, but gave it a day or two later..now during texting she held off my question to meet up at first. Then I called her a day later, talked for a bit and asked her out again, to which she said she wasn’t sure yet and wanted to think about it. Now a day later (of no contact), she texts me “I have decided we can meet up, when do you have in mind?”

So on one hand I can acknowledge some girls might not move as fast as I usually do. No harm done. But on the other hand, the way she is exerting control over the dynamic by having to think about everything, before making “her decision” in every next step of the dating process, it gives me the idea my thoughts about being used for validation, friendzone/pass of time could be correct.

What do you guys think? Am I seeing things that aren’t there, given that in overall time, not even two weeks have passed? Or is there indeed a good chance she’ll try to control the dynamic, have me take her on a date, and eventually hit me with the “I don’t feel the vibe” because of my lack of asserting dominance and control in the dating process. And if so, how can I turn it around or is it lost?

I admit that normally I would’ve probably made this decision by myself. But with our similar backgrounds, and similar experiences because of it, I do see more potential than usual.

 

[Dr.Suave]

So the general question is, any help in overcoming this, and becoming the carefree, confident and independent guy I was before.

I think a lot of us have been in similar situations. Fake it till you make it.

Last time I was single, some girls were flaking, I said F0ck it and started triple booking them. Guess what happened? 0 flakes.

I had to go out with the hottest one and flake and the other girls. Im not saying overbooking is the way to go and you should always do it, but I did it for a short period of time and it worked for me.

It was a temporary fix while I re-built my confidence and mental state. Ideally, you build such a cool life for yourself that a flake is more a relief than a negative thing, but building such a life is not gonna happen overnight.

The Fall & Rise of Alex Rivers

Let me tell you a story about a guy. We will call him Alan Rivers. When Alan Rivers was around 30, he met a cute 27 year old girl. Just when they started dating seriously, a hot 18 year old girl he met at work reached out to him through social media, started playing him hot & cold. So even...

www.sosuave.net

The second, more specific question

Low interest. Spin more plates.

 

[Stanley]

To respond to your first question. You clearly paint the picture that you are unhappy, in your feelings and so on. I understand with loss comes a period of sadness which is normal. Perhaps you have fallen off your purpose? Maybe you do need love and intimacy? Or maybe you need to get laid? Maybe you need to make more money? Or maybe you need to be fulfilled?

We can't answer those questions for you. You seem somewhat self aware as evident in this post so start doing the internal work and figure out your ****. Having low periods in life is normal, it just isn't somewhere you should dwell longer than needed. Once you become self assured in what you want and start making changes you will feel better. Be certain that the things you want will elevate you though.

The second, more specific question, which will most likely be related or a side effect to the first issue, ultimately. I’ve met this girl OLD, similar age, similar mixed ethnic background (which is rare where I live). So in my mind, I saw potential. Our conversations are okay, she responds fast, every day, but the first red flag is, she very rarely asks or returns significant interest questions. Which make me think she is more in search of validation than an actual long term interest?

Maybe she is using you for validation...maybe she isn't? Either way you shouldn't be unjustifiably validating anyone unless you have some ulterior motive or vested interest. The highlighted section above reads to me like you are overvaluing a girl you hardly know based off seemingly arbitrary reasons and qualifiers. Common symptom of a potential oneitis infection, careful. More prone to that when your self esteem is low.

When I asked for her number on the app, she initially asked to talk more, but gave it a day or two later..now during texting she held off my question to meet up at first. Then I called her a day later, talked for a bit and asked her out again, to which she said she wasn’t sure yet and wanted to think about it. Now a day later (of no contact), she texts me “I have decided we can meet up, when do you have in mind?”

She sounds lukewarm, proceed if you want to, she is operating the frame here. If your gut is saying she is using you then it probably is true, unless you allow factors you find appealing in her to blind your judgment and ability to remain rational.

So...what do you want? What does this woman have to offer you? Ask yourself if she is worth pursuing and why you are invested in her (you are) to begin with. Do you actually know her? Should you let her take up this much of your mental energy? You express you are lacking in your mental game right now and it shows. Once again, ask yourself questions and while you're at it, identify cognitive distortions in your thinking patterns. You Express several throughout your post.

Quit giving so much of your mental real-estate to this chick and care less. This is noob level stuff Mr. "Student of the dj-bible"

Kill that desperation!

If you start treating a woman like precious gold, she will believe she is gold. And once she believes it, she will DUMP YOU because YOU have given her the sense that she is BETTER then you. Once she thinks that, she will want to REPLACE YOU with someone better, because you have given her reasons...

bookofpook.com

 

[The.Prodigy]

Thanks guys, I think you’ve both hit the nail on the head.

I think a lot of us have been in similar situations….

You’re definitely right, I’ve always had ups or downs I guess, but the baseline used to stay much higher in the bigger picture. As much as I thought I attained an indestructible mindset and confidence, the past two years have shown me that was not the case.

As far as the girl, I agree, having more options simultaneously, would most likely as it has done in the past, cause me to invest less mentally and stress less.

To respond to your first question….

You are also completely correct. And I will take that roast in stride, although saying I am a student, is not claiming to be a master.

But I have to admit, reading your post was like holding a mirror up. I still get laid frequently, but as far as money and purpose you are right, as the person that passed was the initial reason I started my business and went on a path/hunt for success, and I did go through a spiral of “What am I doing it for/What will become of me/where can I find my drive”-type questions after the loss and closing of my company.

As far as the girl goes, you’re also dead on. She is indeed lukewarm. The only way I’ve thought of increasing her interest was by being more unavailable, which seems to work a bit more right now. As after a day of no contact she just sent me some sexual questions 5 minutes ago. But you’re right, whether I get something serious, or nothing at all out of this interaction shouldn’t determine how I feel nor should it consume this much headspace.

Thank you guys for the wake-up call. I have to get back into reading, back into personal development, off of the excuses, and back on my purpose to atleast get something out of this life while I’m here, instead of being a victim of a loss that ultimately everybody goes through. I guess I was looking for such a mirror all along, typing your replies might’ve seemed like a minor thing, but they are of great help!

 

[Plinco]

Overall it sounds like you have an issue with emotional vitality. This graph might help your clarification.

 

[NorwegianDJ]

I hear two main things here,

1. The a part of the scaffolding that you've built your confidence on has ruptured. Therefore you're experiencing a loss of confidence.

2. Related or unrelated to #1, but likely related to the loss in the family, you're experiencing an increased need for love and intimacy.

You have some options. I'll talk to you briefly.

You could build your castle back up in the same manner that you did before.
Trouble is that you use external factors to reference your self-esteem.
All things change and fade. You can quickly find yourself living life by some formula that you did not invent, nor consent to.
Banging girls is cool and all, but there really is more to life than the hedonic treadmill.

Love and intimacy.
Your needs have shifted, because you and your life has shifted.
Honour it. Respond to your own needs and find out how to best attend to yourself.
If you've been in the desert for several days and I take you to dinner, you will be ravenous in your decour. You will be desperate (and grateful) for food and water. There won't be space for much else than your need. Your need is so overpowering that it crowds out other signals that touch your senses. This is why you're experiencing that it is off-putting. If you can meet your needs to some capacity, then there will be more space in which you can see and relate to others and the world in a more honest and less scarce manner.

In the very same way, we can attend to our needs for connection and belonging.
I don't like the approach that we treat parts of ourselves like there is something wrong with them.
Each part of us arises as a force to meet some perceived need.
Our feelings are to be honoured. Should we push them down, we will experience that we remain the same person across time.

In short: find ways to meet your newfound need.
It will not disappear without loving attention.
You are lacking intimacy and connection in your life, possibly belonging.
In what arenas are these needs met? Can you find them in your friendships? Community? Family? Relationships? Work?
If not, how can you bring connection and intimacy into your existing spheres and relationships?
If you lack belonging, where can you turn to to find a community or relationship that has the capacity to be a cradle for your becoming?

Ultimately, how can you do these things for yourself?
This is what it is to be a high-value man anyway, is it not?
Consider that your culture and language form the edges of your world. There's a lot more out there, once you let go of who you think you are and how you think things are.

I am here, should you be receptive.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This women is low interest and you aren't even the backup at this point. You might be the backup to the backup to the backup. If you are lucky.

Stop wasting time with her and start working on building your pipeline. OLD is a volume game. If you are only talking to one or two women at a time you are doing it all wrong and your results will be minimal.

This woman isn't even worth the time of day from you based on how she is acting and the fact you claim to have dated that many women but continue to waste time with this one doesn't seem very congruent at all.

In the 2 weeks since you have wasted your time on this one you should have messaged close to 50 women, got numbers from 10-15 and set up and gone on at least 3-4 dates.

By this point you would have forgotten about this woman and not even bothered with her anymore. You are only bothering with her because you lack options and lacking options makes you focus more on whatever ones you have even when it makes little sense to do so.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Hey fellas,

I got a question about a specific situation. But could perhaps also use advice on the more broader issue which I’ll start with: to give some context, I’m 30, student of the dj-bible, self-employed, educated, attractive face, well built body after 15 years of gymlife, pretty confident, and a healthy mix between spontaneous and introvert.

In the past I’ve never had an issue dating girls. I’ve had well over 250 girls in the 6-10 rating-range (looks) both one night stands and as girlfriends, regardless of which of the two dynamics, I’ve practically always been able to hit it the first night.

I might make a separate post about it in the future if I can’t seem to resolve it in the short term, but: The general issue: I’ve experienced a significant loss family-wise some time ago (more than 2 years), which also caused my business to go under, and caused a severe mental dip for a period of more than 6 months. Ever since, I’ve felt less confident, more in my feelings, or even better worded; more in need of love and intimacy. Which I presume is off-putting to a lot of girls, understandably. So the general question is, any help in overcoming this, and becoming the carefree, confident and independent guy I was before.

The second, more specific question, which will most likely be related or a side effect to the first issue, ultimately. I’ve met this girl OLD, similar age, similar mixed ethnic background (which is rare where I live). So in my mind, I saw potential. Our conversations are okay, she responds fast, every day, but the first red flag is, she very rarely asks or returns significant interest questions. Which make me think she is more in search of validation than an actual long term interest?

When I asked for her number on the app, she initially asked to talk more, but gave it a day or two later..now during texting she held off my question to meet up at first. Then I called her a day later, talked for a bit and asked her out again, to which she said she wasn’t sure yet and wanted to think about it. Now a day later (of no contact), she texts me “I have decided we can meet up, when do you have in mind?”

So on one hand I can acknowledge some girls might not move as fast as I usually do. No harm done. But on the other hand, the way she is exerting control over the dynamic by having to think about everything, before making “her decision” in every next step of the dating process, it gives me the idea my thoughts about being used for validation, friendzone/pass of time could be correct.

What do you guys think? Am I seeing things that aren’t there, given that in overall time, not even two weeks have passed? Or is there indeed a good chance she’ll try to control the dynamic, have me take her on a date, and eventually hit me with the “I don’t feel the vibe” because of my lack of asserting dominance and control in the dating process. And if so, how can I turn it around or is it lost?

I admit that normally I would’ve probably made this decision by myself. But with our similar backgrounds, and similar experiences because of it, I do see more potential than usual.

1. Desiring love and intimacy after loss or to otherwise help yourself heal is coming from a place of scarcity and need. It can appear harmless but is actually a retrograde mentality that is pulling you to behave like a child seeking for a mother's protection and comfort. When you feel these thoughts, take them as feedback to go out and kick more as$ in your life until you desire a partner to share your overflowing love for life with.

2. As others have mentioned, you're giving too much mental real estate to this girl. All relationships start off casual, so why do you seem to be pushing for more than that so early? You're overthinking and acting sensitive. I sense this is a result of number 1, it's the manifestation of you seeking comfort and validation from women in your life. You should be the source of comfort, confidence, and love, not one seeking it out.

Disinterest from another should naturally invoke disinterest in you. In a naturally happy state these things all become obvious. Since they seem puzzling to you, we can conclude you're not in a good place mentally, so work on that first and the rest will fall into place. Go where you are celebrated, not where you are tolerated.

 

[The.Prodigy]

I really can’t express how appreciative I am to all the knowledgeable replies!

I hear two main things here,

@NorwegianDJ Both of the main things you mentioned, I acknowledge as correct.

These responses have helped me realise that indeed with the loss of my entire family, close and extended, although through/because the passing of only 1 person (who was indeed the mother-figure in my life) I have indeed been trying to replace that womanly love. Which I as beforementioned also used as a katalyst for my professional and personal development efforts. The grief process, and building back up process has mostly been ignored by me due to a multitude of circumstances but also self-destructive coping mechanisms. But I also realize it’s not too late to build my castle back up as you put it.

“I don't like the approach that we treat parts of ourselves like there is something wrong with them.
Each part of us arises as a force to meet some perceived need.”

This definitely hit a nerve on many levels. As I have noticed changes personality-wise but even shifts in what I appreciate sexually, which has been rather difficult or challenging to assimilate with my identity, or mak. (Not talking gender-wise, just kinks lol)

But I do crave more belonging, intimacy and connection, which in a lot of arenas of my life does not seem plentiful at this moment. I did get into a different sport to challenge myself, but also create a new social avenue to explore. Although I do recognize that I do not again, want to make my purpose and confidence dependent on the basis of an external factor or person.

This women is low interest and you aren't even the backup at this point. You might be the backup to the backup to the backup. If you are lucky.

Well right now the situation has somewhat changed. After a short period of no contact she asked me some sexual questions at random, which I entertained. And now a date is set and it has been established we’re ****ing. But you’re right in the sense that I haven’t got too many options laying around. I’ve got one girl early 20’s who is admittedly “freeuse” to me, upon her own request. But for communicative, age/mindmaturity reasons I’m not crazily attracted to her. And that’s basically it.


But it’s a very telling dynamic, and I guess the best example of how I should be behaving, one girl has my interest, and I have trouble keeping my mental real-estate clear to begin with. And the girl that I have no interest in and it shows in my communication, offered herself up as freeuse to me.

You’re still right, despite the no-contact and me seeing her the interest level is still off, from what I can recognize as a healthy interested woman. But we got the date to either show myself as high-value and create actual interest, or to conclude it isn’t worth my time. Right? I think the only chance I have of screwing this up or causing her to flake is by reentering a pattern of wanting to text her/be available too often.
Regardless, increasing numbers is a definite takeaway, even if it is to live more in a feeling of abundance.

And me having dated that many women as opposed to my difficulty with one is rooted in the main issue I mentioned regarding the loss of family. Which not only affected me mentally, but caused me to lose my company, whereas the important factor (I think) is that when I had the company I communicated more high-value automatically, not having a lot of time, having women have to fit into my schedule with dating and communication, mentally less available, my lack of urgency for something serious as opposed to more recently where I gave control to the desire for intimacy, instead of being consistent in how I approached life and women.

Go where you are celebrated, not where you are tolerated.

1. I agree with the assessment that part of that desire is coming from a unhealthy place. Part of that is also a natural aspect of my personality though. I think my challenge will be to keep a healthy barrier between controling that need to the extent that it doesn’t affect my behaviour outwardly, and also still fulfill that need, I would think atleast.

2. You’re also right, I took a break from OLD and basically all dating for a few months up until the middle of summer to clear my mind and focus on work and gym, which helped. But I guess haven’t had addressed the issue we’re addressing in this thread, and as such I just landed in a renewed cycle where I expressed myself too needy in communication to the ones who’m I actually like, thus being more unattractive to them, and thus feeling an even bigger need for intimacy. Atleast knowing and recognizing it now thanks to this thread.

I recognize the mindframe I have to put myself in to turn it around, as I can clearly remember how great I felt after reading a certain few personal development books, along with the dj bible, so this together with getting on track professionally is my main takeaway and focus.

And thanks @Plinco I never saw that graph before but it makes sense!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I really can’t express how appreciative I am to all the knowledgeable replies!


@NorwegianDJ Both of the main things you mentioned, I acknowledge as correct.

These responses have helped me realise that indeed with the loss of my entire family, close and extended, although through/because the passing of only 1 person (who was indeed the mother-figure in my life) I have indeed been trying to replace that womanly love. Which I as beforementioned also used as a katalyst for my professional and personal development efforts. The grief process, and building back up process has mostly been ignored by me due to a multitude of circumstances but also self-destructive coping mechanisms. But I also realize it’s not too late to build my castle back up as you put it.

“I don't like the approach that we treat parts of ourselves like there is something wrong with them.
Each part of us arises as a force to meet some perceived need.”

This definitely hit a nerve on many levels. As I have noticed changes personality-wise but even shifts in what I appreciate sexually, which has been rather difficult or challenging to assimilate with my identity, or mak. (Not talking gender-wise, just kinks lol)

But I do crave more belonging, intimacy and connection, which in a lot of arenas of my life does not seem plentiful at this moment. I did get into a different sport to challenge myself, but also create a new social avenue to explore. Although I do recognize that I do not again, want to make my purpose and confidence dependent on the basis of an external factor or person.



Well right now the situation has somewhat changed. After a short period of no contact she asked me some sexual questions at random, which I entertained. And now a date is set and it has been established we’re ****ing. But you’re right in the sense that I haven’t got too many options laying around. I’ve got one girl early 20’s who is admittedly “freeuse” to me, upon her own request. But for communicative, age/mindmaturity reasons I’m not crazily attracted to her. And that’s basically it.


But it’s a very telling dynamic, and I guess the best example of how I should be behaving, one girl has my interest, and I have trouble keeping my mental real-estate clear to begin with. And the girl that I have no interest in and it shows in my communication, offered herself up as freeuse to me.

You’re still right, despite the no-contact and me seeing her the interest level is still off, from what I can recognize as a healthy interested woman. But we got the date to either show myself as high-value and create actual interest, or to conclude it isn’t worth my time. Right? I think the only chance I have of screwing this up or causing her to flake is by reentering a pattern of wanting to text her/be available too often.
Regardless, increasing numbers is a definite takeaway, even if it is to live more in a feeling of abundance.

And me having dated that many women as opposed to my difficulty with one is rooted in the main issue I mentioned regarding the loss of family. Which not only affected me mentally, but caused me to lose my company, whereas the important factor (I think) is that when I had the company I communicated more high-value automatically, not having a lot of time, having women have to fit into my schedule with dating and communication, mentally less available, my lack of urgency for something serious as opposed to more recently where I gave control to the desire for intimacy, instead of being consistent in how I approached life and women.


1. I agree with the assessment that part of that desire is coming from a unhealthy place. Part of that is also a natural aspect of my personality though. I think my challenge will be to keep a healthy barrier between controling that need to the extent that it doesn’t affect my behaviour outwardly, and also still fulfill that need, I would think atleast.

2. You’re also right, I took a break from OLD and basically all dating for a few months up until the middle of summer to clear my mind and focus on work and gym, which helped. But I guess haven’t had addressed the issue we’re addressing in this thread, and as such I just landed in a renewed cycle where I expressed myself too needy in communication to the ones who’m I actually like, thus being more unattractive to them, and thus feeling an even bigger need for intimacy. Atleast knowing and recognizing it now thanks to this thread.

I recognize the mindframe I have to put myself in to turn it around, as I can clearly remember how great I felt after reading a certain few personal development books, along with the dj bible, so this together with getting on track professionally is my main takeaway and focus.

And thanks @Plinco I never saw that graph before but it makes sense!

This date has a 85% flake chance, IMO.

Never assume a date is going to happen with a woman you never met just because you have a day/time set up.

 

[The.Prodigy]

This date has a 85% flake chance, IMO.

Haha we will see, I will definitely let you know, without lies! Right now, I think 35-40%, with the remaining 65-60% totally dependent on my own texting behaviour, as it is the only metric she has right now to alter her perspective and decision.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Haha we will see, I will definitely let you know, without lies! Right now, I think 35-40%, with the remaining 65-60% totally dependent on my own texting behaviour, as it is the only metric she has right now to alter her perspective and decision.

You are forgetting that she has time to meet someone she finds more attractive, interesting, gets her attention, etc in the meantime.

She is likely getting inundated with messages.

How many days out is the date?

 

[BadBoy89]

- I’m 30,
- student of the dj-bible,
- self-employed,
- educated,
- attractive face,
- well built body after 15 years of gymlife,
- pretty confident,
- a healthy mix between spontaneous and introvert.

I’ve had well over 250 girls in the 6-10 rating-range (looks) both one night stands and as girlfriends, regardless of which of the two dynamics, I’ve practically always been able to hit it the first night.

What do you guys think? Am I seeing things that aren’t there, given that in overall time, not even two weeks have passed? Or is there indeed a good chance she’ll try to control the dynamic, have me take her on a date, and eventually hit me with the “I don’t feel the vibe” because of my lack of asserting dominance and control in the dating process. And if so, how can I turn it around or is it lost?

You shouldn't ask us.

Do what you did with other 250 girls you slept with.