A prime example why even "be a man" advice falls short in the matrix

[iqqi]

At the same time I believe that much of the "all men are dogs" stuff we can't help but have ingested growing up ...

Believe it or not, MOST men ARE dogs. (This is the female version of no quality women exist). I don't mean it in an extremist way.

I have been back on the dating scene for a few months. I stepped back in with a very rosy, hopeful attitude, and was greeted by the faces of my female "comrades" (as you'd call it). Their faces were dismal, bleak, and pitied my hope! "Girl," they said. "It is NOT easy out here".

And sure enough, I have witnessed over and over some of the craziest crappiest behaviour from men EVER, lol! I have quite a few close girlfriends, and I am lucky that we are all single at this time (usually it isn't like that). The things that I have witnessed, boy oh boy, it takes the cake to some of the stuff that gets posted here. At least I am still laughing!

I know most of it has to do with selection, and so I am in agreement that it is HARD to find a good woman, because I KNOW how hard it is to find a good man. If it wasn't for a FEW of the men on this forum, I might subscribe to the all men are dogs mentality myself.

As it stands, I am the one rooting for men to my girlfriends. I tell them all the time, that some of them are JUST as confused about women! That some of them DON'T cheat. That some of them DON'T want to be players, and really do just want to meet someone special.

Lol. Same as I try to tell the men of this board.

 

[Metro3pilot]

...

 

[Aenigma]

Believe it or not, MOST men ARE dogs. (This is the female version of no quality women exist). I don't mean it in an extremist way.

I have been back on the dating scene for a few months. I stepped back in with a very rosy, hopeful attitude, and was greeted by the faces of my female "comrades" (as you'd call it). Their faces were dismal, bleak, and pitied my hope! "Girl," they said. "It is NOT easy out here".

And sure enough, I have witnessed over and over some of the craziest crappiest behaviour from men EVER, lol! I have quite a few close girlfriends, and I am lucky that we are all single at this time (usually it isn't like that). The things that I have witnessed, boy oh boy, it takes the cake to some of the stuff that gets posted here. At least I am still laughing!

I know most of it has to do with selection, and so I am in agreement that it is HARD to find a good woman, because I KNOW how hard it is to find a good man. If it wasn't for a FEW of the men on this forum, I might subscribe to the all men are dogs mentality myself.

As it stands, I am the one rooting for men to my girlfriends. I tell them all the time, that some of them are JUST as confused about women! That some of them DON'T cheat. That some of them DON'T want to be players, and really do just want to meet someone special.

Lol. Same as I try to tell the men of this board.

Sometimes the crabs drag each other back down, and sometimes the chef pushes them back in.

 

[reset]

Most men are dogs. But I'm different. I'll show her. I'm gonna love her so much. So, so much. Not like them jerks who don't care about who she is inside. No. I see her inner beauty and I will prove to her I'm worthy of her love, and not just after her body like some cave man retard who can't read. Once she sees how strong my devotion is to her, she'll have no choice but to want to have my children although that would involve sex and that's not what I'm after.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Most men are dogs. But I'm different. I'll show her. I'm gonna love her so much. So, so much. Not like them jerks who don't care about who she is inside. No. I see her inner beauty and I will prove to her I'm worthy of her love, and not just after her body like some cave man retard who can't read. Once she sees how strong my devotion is to her, she'll have no choice but to want to have my children although that would involve sex and that's not what I'm after.

:crackup: ....and I'll follow her around doing errands for her. I'll listen to her problems with men and try and solve them. I'll let her call me crying in the middle of the night and comfort her..because I'm different, and I know, in the next year or two she will realize this and come running into my arms..

Iqqi, you crack me up. I would be willing to bet the quality guy you're looking for you is right there beside you, but you don't notice him..

I think a lot of us reformed 'nice guys' know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[reset]

Yeah well I'm gonna top that Mr. Positive... I WILL CALL HER in the middle of the night crying and drunk to save her time and ask her what songs she wants on her mix-cd full of songs of how she makes me feel. Hands off man she's mine! :cuss:

Lol.

 

[Mr.Positive]

D@mn you Reset! That's a tough one to top..

But I'll beg....haha, top that.

Iqqi, please pick me! I'll change my name to Mr.Sensitive or Mr.Caring-with-no-sex, I'll do anything for you.

 

[MikeYikes122]

Sometimes the crabs drag each other back down, and sometimes the chef pushes them back in.

:crackup: That is pretty good. Did you just come up with that saying?

 

[jophil28]

And that's what this is, not about IL so much, but as assessing their character. A woman can have a high IL but still be an ill-mannered person.

This is an important point and TRUE,
Many times her bad behavior is all about HER mindset and is independent of IL. - her habitual bad behavior is something that she brings to the relationship, or the date.

I realize that it is comforting to believe that YOUR DJ actions and mannerisms can "tailor" a woman's behavior and that she is acting the way she is because of something that YOU did or did not do . Bullshyt !! A few of you dreamers continue to post replies which reflect this thinking , ( " She did this or that because he acted like a chump")
THis irrational belief is borne from the desire to believe that YOU can control and direct her actions via your "DJ-ness."
FOr F*cks sake, get over the delusion that women act badly because YOU are not "doing it right" .

THis is rarely true in the early stages of a connection and only partly true in an LTR.
You have bought into the Dr PHil stuff that preaches the mantra "WE teach people how to treat us ".

For the most part women who act badly towards men do so habitually and the only way that you can deal with it is to walk away (or accept it if you want her around badly enough)

I have found in 30 years of dating that women are great actresses UNTIL they get what they want (usually and LTR) and then their SOP emerges . And by then it matters little whether you are a DJ, Brad Pitt or your gold medal AFC.

 

[reset]

D@mn you Reset! That's a tough one to top..

But I'll beg....haha, top that.

Iqqi, please pick me! I'll change my name to Mr.Sensitive or Mr.Caring-with-no-sex, I'll do anything for you.

Crap. Whatever man-- you may win this round. However, beware: there's a good chance you'll end up being a jerk to her like all the other guys. You're just faking the sensitive stuff, I'm crying right now for REAL, not fake crying like you're doing.

So when it happens I will be there to pick up the pieces and help to mend her tender heart, bruised as it may be from your cruelty. So until you lose her--enjoy her. My gift to you my friend.

 

[mzilla2]

Many times her bad behavior is all about HER mindset and is independent of IL. - her habitual bad behavior is something that she brings to the relationship, or the date.

Bingo! A point I wanted to discuss too.

Especially with younger women, as we are often advised to date from this forum, the normal personal behaviour boundaries are not the same - chicks today have been conditioned from a young age to seek attention, external affirmation and socially "multitask", and most dudes today tolerate this and/or exhibit the same behaviour. What we see as "disrespect" in behaviours and interactions may not be a low interest level per say, but rather her interaction based on a different set of ingrained social behaviour standards - she is may not even be aware of the negative value message she is sending....

That said, the video was a narrow and blatant example, I mean, prior, did she make the date on time? After he asked her out the first time? Was the interaction lively and was she asking a lot about him? Was he getting buying signals, kino, etc? I'm not defending her behaviour, but OVERALL how she treats and responds to you is much more reliably indicative of her IL and respect for you than over analyzing one incident. Brush off the occasional minor irritation, but keep an eye out for repeated and grevious behaviours...

At any rate, the lesson to be taken away is that if you allow someone treat you poorly, chick or dude, then you are rewarding the behaviour and conditioning them to treat you as such in the future, and demonstrating lower value. But there are more subtle and less explicit ways of demonstrating dissatisfaction with behaviours towards you while keeping your high value status.

 

[iqqi]

:crackup: ....and I'll follow her around doing errands for her. I'll listen to her problems with men and try and solve them. I'll let her call me crying in the middle of the night and comfort her..because I'm different, and I know, in the next year or two she will realize this and come running into my arms..

Iqqi, you crack me up. I would be willing to bet the quality guy you're looking for you is right there beside you, but you don't notice him..

I think a lot of us reformed 'nice guys' know exactly what you are talking about.

Notice that you are the ones putting words in my mouth. I didn't give one example as to what these guys (that SUCK BIG TIME) were like.

Funny that women think exactly the same as you, as far as the "I bet the quality woman you are looking for is RIGHT there beside you... but you don't notice her."

Give me a break. Can't you guys see past your own noses???

Just so you know, the guys you have described (the pitiful do anything to prove I love her types) tend to be the worse. I always wince my one of my friends fall for it.

 

[iqqi]

I guess I will also let you all know, that when I try to "stick up" for men to my girls, they pretty much give me the same dumb sh!t you all just did. Lol.

Wake up!

 

[reset]

I don't know. Being a man who has actually done weak stuff like that, I can gurantee it don't work.

 

[Interceptor]

Being the Man, means knowing one's own self worth.

If you truly know your OWN Value, self worth, and have built up Self Esteem, then you will naturally NOT give her that AFC persona.
Why would a guy 'present' flowers, and the romantic candlelight dinners, and "im the most romantic guy you've ever met?" to a stranger?

Because he's not socially well adjusted, has a fantasy view of "love", is more in Love WITH the idea of Love than the woman, often has problems dealing with Masculinity, uses his relationship with his mother as a reference, and has a idealized perception of women, and also, because he doesn't know his self worth, he feels a need to impress and qualify himself to the woman.
I could go on...


The AFC presents 'things' to impress her, rather than his own Self and his Masculinity.

 

[iqqi]

Being the Man, means knowing one's own self worth.

If you truly know your OWN Value, self worth, and have built up Self Esteem, then you will naturally NOT give her that AFC persona.
Why would a guy 'present' flowers, and the romantic candlelight dinners, and "im the most romantic guy you've ever met?" to a stranger?
Because he's not socially well adjusted, has a fantasy view of "love", is more in Love WITH the idea of Love than the woman, often has problems dealing with Masculinity, uses his relationship with his mother as a reference, and has a idealized perception of women, and also, because he doesn't know his self worth, he feels a need to impress and qualify himself to the woman.
I could go on...


The AFC presents 'things' to impress her, rather than his own Self and his Masculinity.

This is SO true, and it is SUCH A TURN OFF.

But it works on some women.

 

[Interceptor]

Maybe some of those women are a little more nurturing, and perhaps more forgiving?

There are plenty of women who are tired of 'players' and insincerity.
Maybe they DO actually appreciate the poor guys attempts at being romantic , even early on?

At least she feels she can trust him, and in a way, she will know the guy doesn't have optioons really, so he's 'safe', you know?
Something to consider.

I am no one to judge.

While I personally have not witnessed this approach to be that successful with the average woman, I know that there are plenty of women whom are a bit more 'romantic", a little pollyanna ish, and kind of like the 'romantic" approach.

Some women are actually afraid of masculinity, of masculine sexual power.

Perhaps this is their way of embracing a male in to her life.

We are no one to judge.
So if she likes it and appreciates the guy, more power to them.

The thing sis, does this behavior enhance ATTRACTION, or not?

For the most part, NO, it DOES NOT.
What can it do?

It can demonstrate and create AFFECTION.
That is different.

 

[iqqi]

Maybe some of those women are a little more nurturing, and perhaps more forgiving?

There are plenty of women who are tired of 'players' and insincerity.
Maybe they DO actually appreciate the poor guys attempts at being romantic , even early on?

MAYBE, however like you also said, the man who does that is usually in love with LOVE, not the girl. Gross!

 

[My Name is Nobody]

the man who does that is usually in love with LOVE, not the girl. Gross!

That makes no sense. Why doesn't that surprise me.

 

[Interceptor]

What Iqqi and I are trying to explain is that sometimes a male will view a Woman in an idealized form.

"Women are Angels from above!"
"Women are flawless! They can do no wrong!'
"Women are Godesses whom must be worshipped so that you can be worthy of her!"
"Women are higher creatures, whom are delicate, and easily hurt! They hate 'bad boys'! And they only want sex with a man whom Loves them!"



In a sort of Disneyland, Fantasy Romance novel manner.
And he is so enamored with his 'feelings', which he believes this woman is making him feel, that he is blinded by them. So much so that he doesn't 'see' in fact , this woman who is standing right in front of him.
Women hate to be ignored, so it's stands to reason that what infuriates many women is when you actually ignore the woman standing in front ofyou, by focusinig on your fantasy of "being in Love" with this woman. Whom the guy probably hardly even knows.
Can you be 'in love' with someone you just met?
It's possible.
But how about when you really haven';t established deep rapport, and similarities, compatabilities, and emotional compatavilities?

In other words, this chick you're taking out to a romantic candle light dinner has about the same familiarity as a stranger walking on the street.

Why would a guy try to impress and 'romance' a stranger?

This is the midnset of the guy who is 'in love with love' not the girl.

And this is often looked on by women as immature, and kind of creepy.