A Nice Trend - Don't Next So Fast

[JT7890]

I have a nice trend that I've been experiencing for what I would say YEARS now, that goes against alot of Sosuave's teaching on this area. I thought I would share to help some guys here.

You know how you get a girl's number, you are told to:

1.) Do not call the first or second day, call on day three

2.) After a "couple" calls, if you don't get a date to NEXT

Both of these "Sosuave" rules will actually hurt you for the most part. My experiences have it where, if I wait and call a girl in three damn days after I got her number, ALOT of them won't even remember who I am. Now, calling on the first day might be a little too pushy, but I normally call on day two (which is basically the next day, if I got her number at night I'll call the afternoon of the next day).

Now, I also find that the girl makes you wait on purpose before she goes out with you. So she spends a little more time on the phone and text to get to know you a little, get a feel for your personality, etc.

So from what I experience, you have to be a little more persistent when it comes to converting them. Sosuave seems to think that since we are "The Prize" (which for most guys in America I seriously doubt that is true), that the girl should be damn near dripping in high interest from the moment our King Don Juan Savior of the World a.sses walks up to her. This is not so.

I find that if the girl gave you her number, for the most part, you had something that attracted her (looks, personality, or both). But, in order to get her to spend time with you, fvck you, take it to a relationship, you have to be a little more persistent on the telephone.

For example, the girl I'm with right now, I literally spent damn near 3 weeks on the telephone with her! The girl I was with before that was about 2 weeks. I would say on average, I would spend about a week or two on the telephone/texting with a chick before she "chills" with me. Once I get them to chill with me it's over, my conversion to sex ratio is pretty high from that point on.

 

[Poonani Maker]

My experiences have it where, if I wait and call a girl in three damn days after I got her number, ALOT of them won't even remember who I am.

Women LIE about "not remembering you." This is a fact. This is their Game. I've had them "keep you in mind" and contact ME in a week.

It kinda depends on the hotness of the girl, but for the most part, they lie about not remembering you. If she Really wants to see you, she'll remember you. You just have to up the ante. How valuable are you to this new one you've found?? That will determine how much she Remembers you. Guaranteed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're either in in her eyes or out. There is no in-between. Women will put up or shut up if she's got something to gain from you. There are exceptions though, the ones who are in a fog and lost in their own games and end up crazy with a bunch of cats.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

This article disagrees with your approach entirely:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/file-under-science-love-at-first-same-night-lay/

Comments?

 

[JT7890]

It kinda depends on the hotness of the girl, but for the most part, they lie about not remembering you. If she Really wants to see you, she'll remember you. You just have to up the ante. How valuable are you to this new one you've found?? That will determine how much she Remembers you. Guaranteed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're either in in her eyes or out. There is no in-between. Women will put up or shut up if she's got something to gain from you. There are exceptions though, the ones who are in a fog and lost in their own games and end up crazy with a bunch of cats.

If you wait a week to contact a person and that person has a LIFE, ANYBODY would forget who you were and would just need to be reminded where they met you at. I don't think they are doing it on purpose, if you got a girl's number on Feb 11th, and wait to contact her on Feb 27th, hell, I would understand why she wouldn't remember you. Sosuave thinks that if you call the next day you are being too desperate, from my experience and what I do, I don't come off desperate because for one, I'M NOT DESEPERATE. I come off as persistent and a person that wants to spend time with her.

I've also lost alot of girls too for not calling soon enough. I can't tell you how many girls I've got their number and life just got in the way and I got very tied down with other things, then I finally call her and she's just all cussing and telling me to fvck off for waiting two weeks to call her back.

This article disagrees with your approach entirely:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2011/02/...ame-night-lay/

Comments?

Urgh, I'm done with theories. There's a million theories on women and dating, I'm tired of reading all of them from these so called "dating experts." Especially when you find that most of these "dating experts" turn out to be Gunwitch who looks 50 and shoots women in the face over $50 drug money.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Wow. Straw man much?

 

[Boilermaker]

Urgh, I'm done with theories. There's a million theories on women and dating, I'm tired of reading all of them from these so called "dating experts." Especially when you find that most of these "dating experts" turn out to be Gunwitch who looks 50 and shoots women in the face over $50 drug money.

Urgh, you are done with theories, yet you bestow us the privilege of reading your own theory on the very broad problem of "converting hookups". And you base your arguments on a trivial journey you've had with two women, scorning scientific studies and Roissy along the way.

Nice.

Now let us take you seriously.

 

[JT7890]

Boiler give me a break. How can you conduct a scientific study on something that is not concrete and measurable?

> Business

> Politics

> Consumer Buyer Behavior

Those are things you can conduct studies on to predict behavior because they are concrete and measurable, please tell me how you can measure the behavior of the 200 million women in America? 200 million of which are broken up and DOMINATED by their LOCAL cultures?

I know alot of black women that just do not date white men. Period. So if a white guy follows the "Sosuave" tips and approaches most of the black girls I know, he will get shot down no matter what he does. Because the women in that local area and that part of culture just don't like his type.

What about gothic chicks?

I know those are extreme examples but please tell me how the hell you can measure something as random, independent, and NON MEASURABLE as ALL women's behavior?? You can't! Sure you can find common correlations, but for the most part only an idiot thinks he can do such a thing.

And this thread isn't my theory. And it wasn't a result of two girls. It's been something that I have been experiencing for years. I just decided to write about it. This is a condensed FIELD REPORT, not an armchair theory I read from Roissy.

I can tell you this, if I start following the "wait three days before calling" and "Next THEM if they don't spend time with you in 2-3 days" I won't get ANY PVSSY.

 

[JT7890]

I also read that Roissy article and it all in all is very stupid lol. I really think this site should get back to posting more INDIVIDUAL RESULTS FROM THE FIELD (like this post is) rather then posting "scientific" studies conducted by "scientific dating experts" with advanced degrees in "bullshyt dating advice that doesn't work" as if this is some fvcking Advanced BioChemistry Course.

I learn and gain so much more insight from reading a guy's INDIVIDUAL FIELD REPORT or INDIVIDUAL LESSONS LEARNED, then from reading a guy's "scientific study" on women.

Urghh, stop already.

 

[JT7890]

Danger that's absolutely right and the reason I posted this report. But I also wanted to spark another conversation, looking at this thing, doesn't the ENTIRE success of an altercation with a girl depend on the GIRL herself more then it does you?

In other words, 98% of this site preaches about what YOU are supposed to do. But, from what I've experienced, majority of the "success" I have with a chick mostly depends on her state of mind, background, values, etc., more then it does with me. I'm basically like a travelling sales guy, doing presentations, some folks are going to bite and some are just not going to bite because either they don't understand or are just braindead or have something against me personally.

So to compound on that, are there really ANY rules at all? I mean if you go through the Don Juan Bible, there's a million rules in there on what to do and what not to do. I swear, in the field, I don't do hardly any of that shyt. None of it. And I still have success. But I do come off natural and being JT, so I think that drives it home further then anything.

I mean look at all these threads, posts, and scientific studies posted on this site. Look at them. Despite all of those posts, you have guys that have been here for over ten years STILL struggling with the same issues they posted ten years ago! No progress! Either they are just lazy and not following the "correct path of Sosuave" or Sosuave doesn't have the answers. I compare this to fitness. You have guys that religiously follow the advice of "Muscle and Fitness" magazine for 5 years, gain no real progress, and just sum up the results to "genetics" when the TRUTH of the matter, is the guy should STOP following Muscle and Fitness and follow their GUT and BODY RESPONSES.

I read around here in a previous thread that Sosuave does not have the answers. And if that's so, wtf are we doing here then? Think about it, why doesn't Sosuave have the answers? Isn't this supposed to be the place where you go to learn the Secrets for dating, meeting, and attracting women? Well if the fvck this place doesn't have the answers, wtf is it doing here then?

See, I think Sosuave should have a good portion OF the answers. But if they focused more on field reports and having guys post their individual results, reports, etc., rather then paraphrasing or copying and pasting "expert" studies, I think this site would be SOOOOOOOOO much better! My goodness. NO wonder Sosuave doesn't have the answers, when a guy named POOK becomes a legend around here because he WRITES GOOD but never, once in his life on here, posted a field report, information about a woman he was dating, information about a woman he fvcked, NOTHING!

Isn't the topic of "getting women" a field, local, and individual related thing, rather then a "study based," national, and group related thing? In other words, do you learn more from a guy posting a field report of an experience he had with a woman or a couple of women, or do you learn from someone posting a study from Roissy?

 

[Poonani Maker]

I've also lost alot of girls too for not calling soon enough. I can't tell you how many girls I've got their number and life just got in the way and I got very tied down with other things, then I finally call her and she's just all cussing and telling me to fvck off for waiting two weeks to call her back.

I agree with this too, but to those ones I just say fvck you. Her Life is just too important for me. I'll find one who's life wants to be improved by me, not one who's life is sooo important sooo great and haughty uppidy that she can't remember me from a mere week or so ago. I want the ones who are a little desperate for the c0ck, and that wants her life to be improved by a man like me, to be dependent on me. I don't want Independent women. That's too manly for me. I like the weepy willow watchgirl type who needs a strong man to take care of her to help me with the things I need help with. God made Eve to be a "helper" for Adam.

 

[zekko]

n other words, 98% of this site preaches about what YOU are supposed to do. But, from what I've experienced, majority of the "success" I have with a chick mostly depends on her state of mind, background, values, etc., more then it does with me. I'm basically like a travelling sales guy, doing presentations, some folks are going to bite and some are just not going to bite

I kind of agree with you. At the end of the day, a girl is either going to dig you for you or she isn't.

Pook, and many others, have said that once they learned the rules, they abandoned the rules and did what they wanted to. The rules have been described as training wheels to give you the right mindset. That makes some sense. Really, many of the rules are pure BS. But some guys will believe in the rules and that will give them the confidence to approach.

As long as you have the confidence to approach and go after what you want, it's really just a matter of being who you are ("be yourself" - but be your best self) and seeing if the girl digs it.

There's a progression that goes on here:
1) The forum tells you to do a, b, and c.
2) You go out and do a, b, and c.
3) You bang the girls that respond to a, b, and c. The forum tells you to "next" the girls that don't respond to a, b, and c.
4) You conclude that a, b, and c is what works

But what really worked is that you went and put yourself out there and went after what you wanted. Of course this assumes you are not a needy, desperate, spineless worm to begin with.

 

[Jeffst1980]

I'm sure everyone is going to jump all over the OP, but I'm actually going to agree with the premise of the first post--minus the part about building so much comfort on the phone. It's essentially the implementation of "confident persistence"- Allen wrote a great article about it many years ago.

This is not to discount the Roissy POV, either--obviously, the way to get a girl to invest in you is to have sex with her. I'm pretty sure the OP agrees with this.

The problem is that getting a SNL with a girl of your CHOOSING is damn near impossible if logistics are not on your side. Sure, convincing a girl that's already on the prowl to come home with you is a piece of cake, but I assume we're talking about hot women with options. These women are rarely alone, and are usually part of a mixed set of orbiters and mother hens that are determined to prevent her from going home with a strangers. Couple this with the distractions that having a larger social network in general present, and building sufficient attraction to bring her home in such a limited time frame becomes very difficult. If you live more than a quick walk or cab ride away, even worse.

Perhaps I'm nowhere near as good at pickup as some of the writers of these blogs, because I sense a bit of exaggeration in everything from their rating system (Keira Knightly is a "solid 8"), to their lay reports (which often seem a bit too "textbook"--a real pickup ALWAYS has SOME fvckups!). Also, there are SO many "infield" videos that culminate in a number close or a kiss--there is a BIG difference between kissing a girl in a club and sleeping with her!

The theories are generally correct, but in practice, there are a lot of hidden variables that are not accounted for.


Now, I HATE playing the phone number game as much as the next guy, but if you are persistent with it and stay calm and nonreactive when she flakes, you CAN get a girl with lukewarm interest to come out on a weeknight to meet you. It's not done by building comfort--although presumably you've already built some--it's just done by catching her when she has NOTHING BETTER TO DO. Chicks are busy these days, and it may take awhile to catch them at a good time, so sending periodic bulk texts to all your numbers is an easy way to see who's available. That's essentially Paul Janka's game, and, sketchy and sex obsessed as he is, his methods do yield results for him.

Day 2's are easier in some ways because isolation, the biggest hurdle in night game, is out of the way. They're also easier for guys that aren't charismatic enough to constantly become the center of attention. So, if you must settle for a phone number, you might as well give it a shot.

 

[Colossus]

I actually agree with the Roissy article (or rather the UI study) in that the waiting or not waiting doesnt have as much predictive value as people think it does.

What's more important is that genuine desire is there from the beginning. That cannot be negotiated, willed, or faked.

That said, I DO think there is merit to making HER wait. Let me repeat lest it be taken out of context---making HER wait, or at the very least tempering your sexual aggression early on. There is a huge difference between that and jumping through her hoops to get the "prize". The reason being is that women cannot appreciate what is garnered easily. They need to work for a man's heart...to go through this process of peeling off layers while he is rowing the boat. I actually think this augments her desire to fvck by allowing some bonding to take place before you get sexual. Yes I said bonding, lol. The catch is you have to lead. It only works if genuine desire is present and the man is actively leading. You cannot let her dictate when sex happens otherwise this sets the frame off in her favor. It should get to the point where she is practically begging for you to give it to her already. Women love to be taken, not ration out sex like cookies to a child.
Obviously in the interim there should be lots of kissing, touching, etc. Add that to the emotional fire you are stoking by being a fun and charming guy with a streak of mystery and you have a recipe for wet panties.

This is just my opinion however and isnt the only way to do things. There is definitely an art to it and it is geared for those looking for a relationship. If you are simply looking to add some notches to the bedpost then that is a different approach entirely.

 

[Boilermaker]

I also read that Roissy article and it all in all is very stupid lol. I really think this site should get back to posting more INDIVIDUAL RESULTS FROM THE FIELD (like this post is) rather then posting "scientific" studies conducted by "scientific dating experts" with advanced degrees in "bullshyt dating advice that doesn't work" as if this is some fvcking Advanced BioChemistry Course.

I learn and gain so much more insight from reading a guy's INDIVIDUAL FIELD REPORT or INDIVIDUAL LESSONS LEARNED, then from reading a guy's "scientific study" on women.

Urghh, stop already.

No scientific study is absolute or infallible, go read some Karl Popper before you scribble another rant on the effectiveness of the scientific method.

I won't even engage your very general (and ignorant) remarks on social science. Really, I'd sit down and talk about science but not to an audience like this. It's a waste of time.

Who cares about your individual field reports? What makes you think your very limited experience is any more general than scientific studies? You are encircled by your tiny cultural background, values, social circle, family, geography, and so on... How could this be more general than the vectorial sum of thousands of individuals' experiences?

How can you be so foolish to discard scientific (i.e much more comprehensive) findings yet insist on keeping some guy's biased (and mostly wrong) views on the issue?

Who said there were concrete rules and methods about how to act after a hookup anyway?

You completely misunderstood the purpose if you think there's a magic formula that works in every different circumstance. That's not the case even for physics laws.

You seem to be unbelievably naive, to say the least. I am sorry.

 

[JT7890]

zekko

Pook, and many others, have said that once they learned the rules, they abandoned the rules and did what they wanted to. The rules have been described as training wheels to give you the right mindset. That makes some sense. Really, many of the rules are pure BS. But some guys will believe in the rules and that will give them the confidence to approach.

From a "how to get women or how to get laid" standpoint, I honestly think 90% of the information here is complete bullshyt. This is my point.

The DJ Bible has a collection of individuals in there WITHOUT any REAL research by the moderators on WHO these guys are and what qualifies them to offer advice. NONE. That's what I think is missing here. I think there are guys that might know what they are saying, but there needs to be REAL qualification on those people before they are lifted up as "the holy grail of dating expert".

The people posting in the DJ Bible aren't qualified. The information is outdated, silly, and just does not even RELATE to majority of women in the market AT ALL. And most importantly in my opinion, there are absolutely NO FIELD REPORTS in the DJ Bible. NONE. None of those "experts" in there have any field reports in the DJ Bible where they are explaining a situation and guys are discussing that situation and note what's working and what's not working, etc.

Go to the Discussion Forum page (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/index.php) look under "Don Juan Discussion" it says": Discuss meeting, dating, and attracting women with others. Ask a question or give advice.

Give advice??? What qualifies just ANY guy to give other guys advice??

zekko

There's a progression that goes on here:
1) The forum tells you to do a, b, and c.
2) You go out and do a, b, and c.
3) You bang the girls that respond to a, b, and c. The forum tells you to "next" the girls that don't respond to a, b, and c.
4) You conclude that a, b, and c is what works

I seriously doubt these guys are banging chicks from information in the Sosuave DJ Bible. Just being honest. The information in there is just silly and doesn't relate to ANY girls I know. Again, I asked this question before. There are guys that have been posting here for YEARS. No progression. They are still posting the same issues with women they had TEN YEARS ago. Either those guys are lazy and not really in the field, or you are dealing with a website that is just SILLY and doesn't really solve problems.

How many times has it been said, "Sosuave doesn't have the magic pill." Magic pill? So being successful with women and dating is magic? I think the proper quote should be, "Sosuave doesn't have the qualified posters to give out REAL solutions."

Colossus

What's more important is that genuine desire is there from the beginning. That cannot be negotiated, willed, or faked.

Why does a girl have to fall into my arms, run off with me immediately, after she JUST met me, or that means she doesn't like me? What about all the sickos, psychos, crazies, and women that have been burned/hurt by guys in the past? What's wrong if the girl just wants to get to KNOW who the hell the guy is? Furthermore, if the girl doesn't fvck me IMMEDIATELY, that means she's not that into me? So in other words, all women are slvts on auto-pilot for the right guy?

I just don't believe that from my experiences. I would change the word "desire" to "attraction." The girl needs to be attracted to me and think that I'm sexy. But, she still doesn't know me and some girls just take a little bit longer to get to know a person before they go all out.

Boilermaker

No scientific study is absolute or infallible, go read some Karl Popper before you scribble another rant on the effectiveness of the scientific method.

Whoa, I am not ranting on the scientific method, I ranted on why this board treats handling women as a scientific project?

Who cares about your individual field reports?

A guy that in my opinion is actually doing something in the field. However, if you are just a guy that logs in here and posts theories and keyboard jockeys all day, then field reports might annoy you.

What makes you think your very limited experience is any more general than scientific studies? You are encircled by your tiny cultural background, values, social circle, family, geography, and so on... How could this be more general than the vectorial sum of thousands of individuals' experiences?

I'm saying, how can you make a theory on something that can't be measured (all women)? YOU are saying that my field report focus won't be valuable because it's limited to my experiences, but the point you are missing is that a field report is NOT a theory. Field reports are "this is what I did, this is what happened, this is how she responded to x, y, z," from THAT information I can learn more about how girls are in JOE'S part of town, MIKE'S part of town, they can learn about how the girls are in my part of town, and you are start to develop similarities and from THAT INFORMATION, develop a theory that is a result of actual FIELD WORK, NOT, like Pook made his theories which came from SCIENTISTS! Read The Secret of the Jerk, Pook's information is coming scientists, again, treating women like an Advanced Bio-Chemistry project.

I learn NOTHING about women from a Pook theory because the first question that comes up is, WHAT WOMEN IS POOK TALKING ABOUT? BLACK WOMEN? WHITE WOMEN? POOR WOMEN? RICH WOMEN? GHETTO WOMEN? MIDDLE CLASS WOMEN? POVERTY LEVEL WOMEN? Women in Mike's town or Joe's town or JT's town?

Please don't get up here and tell me that ALL WOMEN are the same because I'm here to tell you, they are not. Like I said before, NOTHING in the DJ Bible will work on a black chick lol, NOTHING.

 

[runner83]

JT - I think you are better off discussing your tactics over at the speed seduction website. This board is different. I have been in both. While the seduction website is specially made for guys who want to improve their "game", this board is more about self improvement in general. If anything, it is about male empowerment and rescuing guys by making them realize that getting pvssy is not any real achievement in life...in fact you might have to even lower your character to be the guy who "gets laid".

To argue about old outdated rules in this site is kind of missing the point of this forum. This is ultimately a male empowerment forum, not a seduction forum. But over there at the speed seduction place, I've heard they turned it into a science. With tools like A1, A2, A3, Negs, calibration, ****y funny, amog tactics, how to disarm the ****block, the list goes on and on.

Arguing seduction tactics with these guys is like expressing how much you like Justin Bieber to a bunch of men who grew up listening to Eric Clapton, Carlose Santana, Jimmy Hendrix, and so forth....

Agreed.

OP, do not get hung up in the rules, focus on what the underlying intent of them is.

But before you come on here again, talking about how all the rules are wrong, at least have more than 2 girls to use as your example if you want to be taken seriously.

Personally, no way am I going to spend 3 weeks on the phone with a girl before meeting up with her, unless of course it is because I'm busy with other stuff (or girls) in the meantime.

 

[Jitterbug]

Did JT just quote the tags and descriptions of SS forums? Ha!

That's like someone quoting the definition of feminism in the dictionary and telling me that's what feminism really is about, like, equality & stuff.

Here's a hint: this isn't a science forum, not everything is meant to be taken literally.

Anyway go experiment the JT talk-excessively-on-the-phone method on more test subjects and let us know how it goes.

 

[synergy1]

I also read that Roissy article and it all in all is very stupid lol. I really think this site should get back to posting more INDIVIDUAL RESULTS FROM THE FIELD (like this post is) rather then posting "scientific" studies conducted by "scientific dating experts" with advanced degrees in "bullshyt dating advice that doesn't work" as if this is some fvcking Advanced BioChemistry Course.

I learn and gain so much more insight from reading a guy's INDIVIDUAL FIELD REPORT or INDIVIDUAL LESSONS LEARNED, then from reading a guy's "scientific study" on women.

Urghh, stop already.

I can see why you might struggle with friends. I am not sure where you are getting this biochemsitry thing, but its a pretty silly argument. Some might argue from 'theory' but the majority argue based on experience. You state something clearly people disagree on, than you argue against a point that you made up to make yourself look good ( I guess this is strawmanning it, not sure). If this is how you interact with everyone who disagrees with you, which I do on a lot of things, than no one is going to want you around. I digress.

Anyway go experiment the JT talk-excessively-on-the-phone method on more test subjects and let us know how it goes.

Saucehead over on Bodybuilding.com said never to do this. Especially for newbies who suck at talking on the phone, its best to set something up and hang up. Less is more. Face to face is more important that jabbering over the phone. I keep initial phone conversations to setting up a first meeting. Besides if you date long enough, than you gotta deal w/ long phone conversations so why bother with them at the beginning.

 

[Nutz]

I always text or call on the spot and make it funny and memorable. As a female wing mentioned last Saturday, the best was when the guy called her leaving a funny message when she was standing right there. Her hearing herself on the message cracking up in the background was great. She said that was the best she's ever been picked up and remembers it to this day.

 

[synergy1]

I always text or call on the spot and make it funny and memorable. As a female wing mentioned last Saturday, the best was when the guy called her leaving a funny message when she was standing right there. Her hearing herself on the message cracking up in the background was great. She said that was the best she's ever been picked up and remembers it to this day.

...that is brilliant. totally my style too. added to bag of tricks. Thanks!