A moral dilemna - is cheating always wrong?

[Reyaj]

It's not normal for men, men should have strength. If you cheat, and know it's wrong....you lack strength, strength of conviction to doing what you 'feel' is right.

The point was already brought up, why even get into a relationship if you want to have sex with a bunch of gals? Don't commit to any of them. Problem solved.

Yes, lying is wrong too...so don't lie. Be a man of your word, and you will gain respect from those around you.

Oh, and if you go through life lying and cheating on people, you WILL hurt someone...eventually. Good luck with that.

What if I cheat and I don't think its wrong? What if I am single (if you aren't married then thats what you are regardless of being in an LTR)

Why get into an LTR? Maybe you enjoy her company... maybe she fufills you on other levels besides sex.... maybe you do want to get married one day and she is all about relationships......

The only thing you are right about is your last statement. If we do go through life lying and cheating we will eventually hurt someone. That's why you need to have control over yourself and the situations you will be in.

 

[Reyaj]

Ya, there was a time when I used to think like that. Not anymore. I am a very selfish person. If I can have my cake and eat it too, then I'll go ahead and do that. I understand that some pple cannot do that, it will eat them on the inside. But not me.

I'm not gonna put my social life on hold because i'm in a LTR. It's definitely in "slow mode" as I only go out 3-4 times a month. But when I do go out, that means mingling with girls (I'm not a big fan of gay bars ). I'm not actively looking for fresh pvssy like I was in my single days. But I'll interact with chicks and see what happens. I'll roll with the punches if you will.

For example 2 nights ago I ended up hanging out with a bunch of pple, including the girl with DDs that was the reason I started this thread. Long story short, we all ended up skinny dipping in a pool late at night. My wish to play around with those heavenly tits came true! I pulled the girl into a far corner of the pool and got to mess around with her for a while. She was drunk and horny, rubbing my c.ock under the water and trying to squeeze it inside of her. But I didn't have a rubber, so I didn't feel comfortable doing it. Not because I'm against it or never did it before (far from it), simply because I didn't feel like doing that to my girlfriend as you never know what you can catch from these skanks.

wait a second: does that mean that I have... morals? hahaha Not everything is so black and white now, is it?
For the record, my friend who fvcked her last week was encouraging me to do it too, saying he didn't get anything from her. This guy has a gf as well... Is he evil?

Nice man... sounds like you had a lot of fun with this chick. Kudos to you for not going all the way too. You don't want to be catching any STDS.... If you are going to do this once in a while you want to make sure the girl is clean (as best as you can discern anyway) and be protected.

Curious but did she get you off either via bj or hand job?

 

[Trader]

She was drunk and horny, rubbing my c.ock under the water and trying to squeeze it inside of her. But I didn't have a rubber, so I didn't feel comfortable doing it. Not because I'm against it or never did it before (far from it), simply because I didn't feel like doing that to my girlfriend as you never know what you can catch from these skanks.

wait a second: does that mean that I have... morals? hahaha Not everything is so black and white now, is it?

Relax, you still don't have any morals.

It is really easy to see if someone is moral or not. Actions are not enough, it is the reason behind their actions. A moral person does what is right because he *loves* what is right, an amoral person does what is right simply because he can't get away with evil.

Unfortunately for you, you avoided having sex simply because you were afraid, afraid you were going to catch STDs. If there was no threat of STDs, you would sleep with her.

I can easily spot jokers like you a mile away.

Ya, there was a time when I used to think like that. Not anymore. I am a very selfish person. If I can have my cake and eat it too, then I'll go ahead and do that. I understand that some pple cannot do that, it will eat them on the inside. But not me.

You might be able to get away with *having your cake and eating it too* against AFCs, but there is no way you are going to get away with that when dealing with strong men.

I have absolutely no mercy when dealing with jokers like you and will delight to: "strike all my enemies on the jaw and break the teeth of the wicked." That will send you repenting in sackcloth and ashes.

You won't have to wait until after you die to receive judgment, hell comes to you now, not later. Strong men will take you down and smack you down to hell where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Mr.Positive]

You "gentlemen" give women a pass because they are women. You got programmed that by your mommy.

Many of you would kill a guy that cheated $10,000 from you in a poker game, I believe one of you called it "tearing his head off."

Yet when a woman cheats on you, you take it like a b*tch.

Why would you apply violence to a man, but do nothing with a woman?

$10,000 a man can recover in time, but the emotional and financial (if you're married) damage of a woman cheating on you?

There are guys that have killed themselves over a woman...

So spare me your code of honor... You throw away your code and would kill a poker cheater, but give a woman a pass.

See the hypocrisy???

I'm a player and I play by my own rules because women don't play by any rules.

Hypocrisy? Haha, you are really reaching here. If a woman cheats on me....she's out the door. Where did you get that we have to take it like a b*tch.

You actually have to take a woman cheating on you like a b*tch. Why? because you cheat as well. You both cheat, so you have to hammer around and think well I did it to her, it's only fair she does it to me, etc.

You have to take a woman cheating on you, or you, are a hypocrite. Make sense now? I hope so.

I don't know how you look in the mirror in the morning and see a man.

For the record, I don't advocate violence and the "tear the head off" comment was not meant to be taken literally. It was meant, to stand up for yourself and not be a b*tch. Sorry you misunderstood that. I think most folks reading understood.

 

[squirrels]

You could look at it as "cheating is wrong".

The way I look at it, if there's "cheating" going on, it's the "relationship" that's wrong, and the "cheating" is probably the "right-est" thing that's happened to the "relationship", since it both flags the relationship for what it is (a problem) and takes steps necessary to rectify it (breaking the bonds of the relationship).

That being said, after reading the OP, what I just said has nothing to do with it, so ignore that and let me address the question at-hand:

I've known people like this. People who will "cheat" sexually with other women, so long as they know their wife cannot/will not find out.

If you don't look at their sexual indiscretions, they have been some of the most excellent people I have ever met. My next-door neighbor was one of them. Stand-up guy, very involved husband and father...he was just a hound-dog when it came to sex. He would go on business trips, meet a girl, do what he wanted to do, then come back home and go on as if nothing happened.

But see, that's the key. You have to be able to 1) keep these "indiscretions" secret from your SO, because she WON'T understand, and 2) make sure that when you come back home, your "mistresses" cease to exist.

What typically happens is that the philanderer eventually "falls" for one of his mistresses. When this happens, it starts taking his time from his REAL family...his wife and children. THAT is what I consider morally WRONG. For example, when he starts working those "late hours", eschewing time with his son or daughter so he can stay late and bang out his secretary. Or when he starts buying her gifts with money that ought to be going into his wife and kids.

As long as the cheating does not degrade the man's responsibility to his FAMILY, the morality of it is something of a gray area, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, if you haven't put a ring on her finger, ANYTHING is fair game. But maybe that's why I'm single.

I would not have any moral problem with f__king anyone's "girlfriend", for example. F__king someone's WIFE, on the other hand, presents me with a little moral problem.

 

[Reyaj]

You could look at it as "cheating is wrong".

The way I look at it, if there's "cheating" going on, it's the "relationship" that's wrong, and the "cheating" is probably the "right-est" thing that's happened to the "relationship", since it both flags the relationship for what it is (a problem) and takes steps necessary to rectify it (breaking the bonds of the relationship).

That being said, after reading the OP, what I just said has nothing to do with it, so ignore that and let me address the question at-hand:

I've known people like this. People who will "cheat" sexually with other women, so long as they know their wife cannot/will not find out.

If you don't look at their sexual indiscretions, they have been some of the most excellent people I have ever met. My next-door neighbor was one of them. Stand-up guy, very involved husband and father...he was just a hound-dog when it came to sex. He would go on business trips, meet a girl, do what he wanted to do, then come back home and go on as if nothing happened.

But see, that's the key. You have to be able to 1) keep these "indiscretions" secret from your SO, because she WON'T understand, and 2) make sure that when you come back home, your "mistresses" cease to exist.

What typically happens is that the philanderer eventually "falls" for one of his mistresses. When this happens, it starts taking his time from his REAL family...his wife and children. THAT is what I consider morally WRONG. For example, when he starts working those "late hours", eschewing time with his son or daughter so he can stay late and bang out his secretary. Or when he starts buying her gifts with money that ought to be going into his wife and kids.

As long as the cheating does not degrade the man's responsibility to his FAMILY, the morality of it is something of a gray area, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, if you haven't put a ring on her finger, ANYTHING is fair game. But maybe that's why I'm single.

I would not have any moral problem with f__king anyone's "girlfriend", for example. F__king someone's WIFE, on the other hand, presents me with a little moral problem.

By far the best post on this topic. I agree 100% and you put it more eloquent and succinct.

 

[squirrels]

In my opinion, when a relationship is a problem, the necessary step is to break up.

This is pretty much what I was getting at...in my own excessively verbose way.

 

[drak_ool]

Relax, you still don't have any morals.

It is really easy to see if someone is moral or not. Actions are not enough, it is the reason behind their actions. A moral person does what is right because he *loves* what is right, an amoral person does what is right simply because he can't get away with evil.

Unfortunately for you, you avoided having sex simply because you were afraid, afraid you were going to catch STDs. If there was no threat of STDs, you would sleep with her.

Next time you reply to a post, you should take the time to read the whole thing before typing away. I specifically mentioned that I don't have a problem with raw sex per se as I've done it plenty of times before (I'm pretty sure I've been tested more often than most guys on here). So my fear of STDs did not stop me from nailing this chick, like I wrote in my other post it was because I was afraid to catch something that I could then give to my girlfriend (who I will see in a few days) that I didn't do it. Or maybe you didn't look at that part of the post because it doens't fit in your black-and-white view of the world?

I have absolutely no mercy when dealing with jokers like you and will delight to: "strike all my enemies on the jaw and break the teeth of the wicked." That will send you repenting in sackcloth and ashes.

You won't have to wait until after you die to receive judgment, hell comes to you now, not later. Strong men will take you down and smack you down to hell where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I find the second part of your post quite disturbing Trader: you are basically threatening me with physical violence (a person you never met) because of my views? hum, is that moral?

And since when does having a strong sense of moral makes you a tough guy? What makes you think you could beat me up, if we did indeed meet? You really think because I am an amoral person that I'm also weak physically? Don't really see the correlation here...

Squirrels, your post was spot on. While I accept the fact that different pple have different views on the subject, htat pretty much summed up my views much better than I could. To me the main things in extra-LTR affairs are the physical distance and one-off nature. Tiger Woods would have never got caught if he only fvcked a random girl every time he played an overseas tournament. He got caught cuz he had like 10 mistresses living within 30 min of his house. That **** is bound to blow up in your face.

SamSpade, the relationship is not the problem, it's the distance that separates us that is the problem. I don't feel like breaking up because of it, but i dont' feel like living in a closet either.

 

[HeMan]

drak ool

i totally agree with you

i have cheated on my girl a few times and the only thing i fear is getting caught

these chicks i hooked into meant nothing to me but just some ass. it actually makes me feel closer to my girl because it makes me realise how awesome she is compared to the other chicks

i never saw any of the other girls again. i was drunk and simply just wanting to have some fun. dont see the harm in that!

 

[Reyaj]

drak ool

i totally agree with you

i have cheated on my girl a few times and the only thing i fear is getting caught

these chicks i hooked into meant nothing to me but just some ass. it actually makes me feel closer to my girl because it makes me realise how awesome she is compared to the other chicks

i never saw any of the other girls again. i was drunk and simply just wanting to have some fun. dont see the harm in that!

Amen to that!!!! Yes I felt the same way..... Again we as men can seperate the physical from the emotional when it comes to sex. I hate to diss anyone on here... but I really feel those of us that have any type of success with women understand this better than guys who are still caught up with pure theory or are stuck in a commitment they are the lesser half of.

Squirrels - Just to make myself clear. I did agree with everything you wrote except for the part about there necessarily being a relationship problem.... I can speak for myself that you can't blame one's trangressions on another party..... we all make choices based on what we believe

 

[SexyMofo]

Alright white knights. Let's get down to the meat of it.

Define morality.

Define what is right.

Define what is wrong.

 

[Slickster]

Ya, there was a time when I used to think like that. Not anymore. I am a very selfish person. If I can have my cake and eat it too, then I'll go ahead and do that. I understand that some pple cannot do that, it will eat them on the inside. But not me.

Of course! That is why you posted a question about the morality of cheating in the first place.

Interesting how you had this question in your mind, put it out there on the forum, and now that you are getting some support you are talking like you have always been set in your ways. I think you are confused or should I say cvntfused.

You still never answered the question about how you would feel about your long distance girl cheating on you.....

 

[Slickster]

Amen to that!!!! Yes I felt the same way..... Again we as men can seperate the physical from the emotional when it comes to sex. I hate to diss anyone on here... but I really feel those of us that have any type of success with women understand this better than guys who are still caught up with pure theory or are stuck in a commitment they are the lesser half of.

It's funny you bring up experience. I was thinking just the opposite.

Any man who has had his share of pvssy knows that a piece of a$$ isn't worth all this lying and cheating bullsh!t. To me it seems sad when a guy will dishonour himself and those he cares about for a cheap lay.

To me this isn't an argument about morality. It's about just how important pvssy is to some people.

 

[CrashOverRide]

It's funny you bring up experience. I was thinking just the opposite.

Any man who has had his share of pvssy knows that a piece of a$$ isn't worth all this lying and cheating bullsh!t. To me it seems sad when a guy will dishonour himself and those he cares about for a cheap lay.

To me this isn't an argument about morality. It's about just how important pvssy is to some people.

There is no dishonor if the man covers up his tracks correctly. Unfortunately most men end up blundering this...

 

[SexyMofo]

What? Get the f*ck outta here.

It is about morality with you, you would feel guilty if you lied to a woman.

Get off your f*cking high horse, you're no better than anyone else.

 

[Night Owl]

Cheat or no cheat - One who pick the roses must bear with thorns...

 

[jafyk]

It's funny you bring up experience. I was thinking just the opposite.

Any man who has had his share of pvssy knows that a piece of a$$ isn't worth all this lying and cheating bullsh!t. To me it seems sad when a guy will dishonour himself and those he cares about for a cheap lay.

To me this isn't an argument about morality. It's about just how important pvssy is to some people.

Amen! I'm telling you man. Sometimes I'm talking to a hot girls just to have a convo and afterwards a guy would say did you get her #? I'm like "I wasn't looking to get her # and she has a bf" and they'd say "I don't care if she has a bf or not you should get her # bla bla" Is it suddenly a crime now to talk to a hot girl if you are not trying to get into her panties.

Anyway, new word of the day "cvntfused" lmao! awesome I'm gonna use it.

 

[FairShake]

Is it ok if SHE cheats? Exactly.

 

[Mr.Positive]

The "morality patrol", white night, gentlemen shaming is a very weak attack. It's what women do, it's what the term beta males do to an alpha man.

We all have our own morality, that we define.

This is more about respect. In order to lead a relationship, it's about respect. Without respect, you can not lead. Any quality gal would never respect a man who lies and cheats. Nor many men, I know I don't respect it.

If I was an employer and you applied for a job and I found out you cheated, I wouldn't hire you, I'd consider you the type to take money from the petty cash fund. That's the god honest truth.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that many of you just lack self respect.

Respect, even self respect, has to be earned, and this takes awhile...but it can be lost in an instant.

Thing is, you'll find this true in life, people gravitate towards those that have in common. Cheaters, end up with cheaters. Drug users end up together, and where's there's lots of crime around, it tends to bring people into crime as well.

What you need to do, is become a quality man of your word. You will find quality women, who will gain respect for you. When you have a quality gal who respects you....she would never cheat, because she knows you'd drop her off at the bus stop if she did.

Gain friends who respect you as well, good friends...not 'buddies' who would drop in and disrespect you for a piece of ass.

Respect is everything, earn it.

 

[Slickster]

What? Get the f*ck outta here.

No. I've been here "giving" advice to those who ask for a long time. I like helping people.

It is about morality with you, you would feel guilty if you lied to a woman.

I used to lie and cheat on women. I've done it many many times. (Even stole a few things too.) Then somewhere along the line I learned something. Lying and cheating was ultimately hurting myself. Maybe not at that exact moment but over the long term. I was losing respect from my friends and rightly so. They liked my gf's and saw me lying and cheating on them. What would stop me from lying to them if I could do it to her? Eventually this led to me losing respect for myself. I like to pass on this wisdom whenever I hear others claiming that lying and cheating is okay.

Get off your f*cking high horse...

No!! Why would I get off? It's great up here and it took a lot of work to make it. Every chance I get I try to drag more good people up here with me. If you ever get your sh!t figured out there's lots of room for you too. It's a really big horse!

...you're no better than anyone else.

Yes I am. I am definitely better than all the liars, cheaters, and thieves out there.



The beauty of this great debate is that the chance of all this amoral ranting and behaviour coming back to bite you guys in the arse is quite high. The saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too" didn't materialize out of nowhere. So if and when karma comes and kicks you in the a$$ we all get to say a great big "I TOLD YOU SO!!" :crackup: If you guys are right however, all you really get is some cheap pvssy, which if you haven't noticed doesn't really mean that much to us "morality types".


Anyhow enough time wasted here, I think I've made my point. I'm off to hang with some other good people, do more good things, and hopefully make the world a better place.

Enjoy that pvssy boys! Some day it won't be so sweet....