A moral dilemna - is cheating always wrong?

[drak_ool]

Oh, and if you go through life lying and cheating on people, you WILL hurt someone...eventually.

I've hurt quite a few girls in the past by NOT LYING to them, by not pretending I wanted a relationship with them. They spent their time with me trying to prove themselves to me, while I stuck to my guns from day one and I could just see their pain on their face every time i rejected one of their attempts to make me commit.

I don't wanna fvck a bunch of girls, obviously if that was still the case I wouldn't be in a relationship. I'm talking about one or two here or there, and that only because in my relationship I've gone through stretches of LDR.

The fact of the matter is: it's already happened! This is not some academic discussion in a vacuum. I already did it, moved on and had a perfectly healthy relationship with my girl after.

Don't you think she would be more hurt if I told her? This girl adores me, what good would it do to tell her what happened when she will NEVER know about it? Like I said before, if I find myself emotionally attached to a diff girl, w/er I cheat or not, I will have to seriously reconsider my present relationship and probably break it up. It hasn't happened yet because I have such a strong connection to my chick.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I've hurt quite a few girls in the past by NOT LYING to them, by not pretending I wanted a relationship with them. They spent their time with me trying to prove themselves to me, while I stuck to my guns from day one and I could just see their pain on their face every time i rejected one of their attempts to make me commit..

See drak, that's how it should be done, imo. By not lying to them, you aren't hurting them...they are hurting themselves. I can relate to this, as long as you stick to your guns, it's their choice.

That's being a single guy, not committing and being upfront about it the whole time. Letting them compete for you..as soon as you start making BS promises that are false, that's when you hurt them.

Not judging you personally, I just don't understand cheating....if the gal you are with isn't satisfying you 100%, drop her and find one that does.

The fact that you want to cheat 'occassionally' just tells me you are with a gal who isn't satisfying you, on some level at least.

Besides, there's no way you can be certain she will not find out. That sets you up for a future issue, imo. If it's not a big deal, why not tell her about it? Oh right, because she'd be hurt. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Sneaking around is not a manly thing to do. Do what you do, stand tall about your choices, be proud, have honour, and face the world head on.

 

[SexyMofo]

These same “gentlemen” shame players. They ask, “Where are your morals?”

Let me put it in this light. Let’s say you are playing a game of poker, $100 a hand. You find out halfway through your game that the other person is cheating. You’ve been cheated $10,000. Some guys would kill the other person. Other guys would get even and cheat. And then there are those that will stop playing forever.

We can easily apply that situation to women. We all know from my post What Caused Feminism that women do not subscribe to the same tenets of morality as men. Well, killing is going overboard, no need to go that far. Some men’s rights activists propose abstaining from women completely. Living a life without women? I think not, I have needs.

So the best option is to play the game like women…

http://theasianlover.com/2010/07/15/the-myth-of-the-quality-woman/

 

[Mr.Positive]

So the best option is to play the game like women…

Why not just grow tits and a ***** and become a woman? That's the worst option.

You own, your actions in life. That's what being a man is all about. That's not shame, that's balls.

Either you have them or you don't. You also left out a 4th option, when dealing with a cheater at cards. You tear the ****ers head off and **** down their throat, then take your money back.

 

[SexyMofo]

Why not just grow tits and a ***** and become a woman? That's the worst option.

You own, your actions in life. That's what being a man is all about. That's not shame, that's balls.

Either you have them or you don't. You also left out a 4th option, when dealing with a cheater at cards. You tear the ****ers head off and **** down their throat, then take your money back.

Tearing someone's head off counts as killing...

Listen, you have your own view as a man. It's been programmed into since you were a child.

I have my own view of what a man is. I don't need a gentleman like you to tell me what a man is.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Listen, you have your own view as a man. It's been programmed into since you were a child.

I have my own view of what a man is. I don't need a gentleman like you to tell me what a man is.

Wrong, my view of what a man is learned through life experience, the hard way...and your 'gentlemen' shaming tactics will not work on me.

Men, are a disappearing breed. That's not a 'view', but a fact, unfortunately.

 

[Trader]

Tearing someone's head off counts as killing...

Listen, you have your own view as a man. It's been programmed into since you were a child.

I have my own view of what a man is. I don't need a gentleman like you to tell me what a man is.

Very interesting, so just like how morality is subjective, masculinity is also subjective as well?

It is very tempting to believe masculinity is subjective, because then it comes down to: 'You're ok, I'm ok, we're all ok.'

Unfortunately for you, girls know a real 'man' when they see one, and it has nothing to do with your own personal view of masculinity

The bottom line is this, if you want to go around cheating, fine, more power to you. But don't go around saying that what you are doing is right, because it's not. You won't be able to get anyone to drink your kool-aid.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Listen, you have your own view as a man. It's been programmed into since you were a child.

Mr. Positive's view is based on experience, isn't experience the main difference between a man and a boy? Sure the boy can put on a nice act, but it's all fake because the boy never had the life experience to back it up. The boy is still naive.

The boy is a blank slate, born with nothing, ready to absorb everything.

 

[Slickster]

I love how some people justify cheating with "she'll never find out".

The blind man doesn't know you are pulling money out of his cup either so is that okay too? Life has a funny way of "evening" things out. Karma is a b!tch whether you believe or not.

Drak I think the root of your problem is the long distance relationship. I think most people will tell you they don't work. Obviously if you have to cheat while your girl is away it's more evidence that that is true. If you are really honest with yourself then you must agree that you really have no future with your gf. She can't mean that much to you. If she really was "special" and the two of you had a future then there is no way you would risk cheating on her. You don't "play" with the feelings of people you truly care about. Whether it is right or wrong you just don't.

What about your girl? Do you think she's getting fvcked by other dudes where ever she is? How would you feel about it? Whether it is true or not just sit there for a while and imagine it is true. Do it with as much vivid detail as your mind will allow. Let those thoughts REALLY sink in. Whether you can do this or not and the feelings you get afterwards should tell you a lot about whether you should continue with this relationship.

Your actions now might seem reasonable at the moment but I think further down the road you are going to wonder why the hell you bothered.

 

[SexyMofo]

I've learned what I've learned through the school of hard knocks.

I will be 30. I've started 7 businesses, the first 5 were failures, the last 2 are successful

I've gone out with 102 women in a little over 2 years.

I paid for my own college education.

I went from being born in a ****roach infected 1 bedroom for a family a 5 to a nice lifestyle. In 5 short years I will be financially secure, in 10 I will be financially independent.

I've worked hard to build my empire and do you think I would be stupid enough to let a woman take half?

You've been programmed like sheep. You go on believing that if you play by the rules, you'll find the one. You forget that a woman can financially and emotionally bankrupt you if she chose.

You call yourself a man? I see a fool.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I've worked hard to build my empire and do you think I would be stupid enough to let a woman take half?

You've been programmed like sheep. You go on believing that if you play by the rules, you'll find the one. You forget that a woman can financially and emotionally bankrupt you if she chose.

You call yourself a man? I see a fool.

Look, it's quite simple..don't get married, don't commit, don't live a lie.

Advocating lying and cheating just makes you a fool yourself, and you will never gain respect that way. Not from anyone around, no.

Self respect. You'll never have it, you'll never earn it that way.

There's no reason you can't achieve all that you want in life...and keep your dignity. Be able to look another man in the eye, and know, your word, is gold.

Your word and your ability to keep it is your rock. Never sacrifice your honor, for anything.

 

[drak_ool]

Drak I think the root of your problem is the long distance relationship.

Of course it is! That's what I've been saying all along, but most pple here completely ignored that and gave me a lecture on cheating and morality. When I lived with my gf, I never cheated on her. I met hot girls, even had to work with a hot and very smart girl, but cheating was never on the back of my mind because my girl took care of my every need.

You're saying it cannot work, but we're taking it one day at a time. This is something I made very clear to my girl, if we feel like we are drifting apart, we'll just call it quits. Yet our connection is as strong as ever.

Your actions now might seem reasonable at the moment but I think further down the road you are going to wonder why the hell you bothered.

I am happier now than I was when I was single, chasing women left and right and spinning plates (which involved spending a lot of time with women I didn't give 2 fvcks about besides the sex). My gf fulfills my emotional needs. I don't feel the need to constantly hunt for girls, which frees up my day tremendously. I no longer spend my nights in bars/clubs, which allows me to focus on myself and my goals in life (sports, school, work and lots of gym time lately).

Yet, in the same time I can also go out once in a while and go crazy (not even necessarily hook up with a chick, just have fun) and it won't cause a wrinkle in my relationship because she doens't know about it.

So basically right now I have the best of both words: a loving gf who i see once every couple months AND snippets of the single life when I get too lonely. Is it selfish of me? Sure. Can this blow up in my face? of course.

But you only live once... so make it worth it!

 

[drak_ool]

If I do understand this forum well your line of thinking isn't the DJ way.

One of my biggest influences when I got into pick up was mistery. This was pre-"The Pick-Up Artist" (a show i never watched), mainly through reading The Game.

Remember how he had a girlfriend, yet he would travel all across North America giving seminars on how to get laid and nailing his fair share of hotties?

Sure, the man has many issues. But will you be bold enough to say that he is not... a true player? a true master of the game?

 

[jafyk]

Seriously the more I read some of these responses, the more my theory is validated that you all really have no game.

The OP has been getting laid for years... Unlike a lot of you he has real experience.

The response about your child getting abused is just absurd. A terrible analogy........

I'm sorry but we don't live in a "perfect" world and double standards do exist.... You can rebel against it and frustrate yourself or you can accept it and be happy...

Is cheating on your significant other right???? No...

Is lying right???? Does nobody here lie?????

My point is Men and Women are very different. This is both biologically, physically, and emotionally. If a man cheats on his girlfriend from time to time but does the right thing by keeping his relationship in tact... then by historical standards this is just NORMAL!!!!

I'm sorry I'm just so fed up with all the keyboard jockeys on here that love to attack people who actually have opportunities to score..... Just because you don't know what its like doesn't make you a moral authority to put them down....

In summary...... cheating is probably wrong but its normal for a man... just like lying.... Just make sure you have control of yourself, your life, and try not to hurt anyone....

I guarantee you that most of you who are saying its wrong to do would end up doing it yourself if you were ever in that situation...... Fortunately for you, that is unlikely so you can continue to feed your own egos by posting your morality views on a discussion forum

You should speak for yourself. if you think cheating is ok. Say so, but don't speak for the rest of us. Like some people above have said if someone can't stay faithful why bother being in a relationship when you can have all the girls you want. Yet when the guy comes home and finds his girl doing some other guy he will not just say "Oh, it's ok...perhaps she didn't intend to be caught. So, it's my fault for being in the right place at the wrong time...go on babe fvck away"

 

[jafyk]

One of my biggest influences when I got into pick up was mistery. This was pre-"The Pick-Up Artist" (a show i never watched), mainly through reading The Game.

Remember how he had a girlfriend, yet he would travel all across North America giving seminars on how to get laid and nailing his fair share of hotties?

Sure, the man has many issues. But will you be bold enough to say that he is not... a true player? a true master of the game?

My understanding of the DJ way is that it exceeds being able to get into a woman's panties rather improving yourself as a man that other things such as women fall into place. True most of the focus on this forum is about women but we know even AFCs do get laid from time to time. Just because Mystery cheated on his girl friend despite his success in other ways doesn't make him right. Of course things are fine with you and your GF partly because you are getting one over her. Playing by your rules. I'd understand if you and her had that conversation about you being with other women when you are apart...see how it turns out. If it makes you feel any better there are women who have this same thought process you have. I know one personally who thought that it was ok if she was apart from her guy and he didn't know. When he's back in town they get back to each other and she did cheat but I'm sure she didn't view it as such. I don't think it's bad to enjoy the company of women (even though you are in a relationship) but not in the ways you are prescribing. I understand it's hard with the 2 of you being apart. That's why relationships are not easy. How about seeing being faithful while apart as an obstacle to overcome. I think you'd be more cool knowing that you could bang that broad if you wanted but not doing it because of the one back home. Like the one of the earlier responders said, if you believe you are right what's the need for this post anyway. At the end of the day in your heart you know what is right and what you should do.

 

[WaterTiger]

I've seen several of these threads over the years and they all have objectors & defenders. Those solidly against cheating and those who defend it as a "natural male thing".

Let's put this in pure black and white:
Is it okay to do a "bad" thing if I justify it with psycho-babble?

Is it okay to steal money from your employer because you didn't get a raise this year?

Is it okay to shoot your neighbor's dog because it barked all night?

Is it okay to drive 65 in a 25 zone because you gotta get home to pee?

Is it okay for your girlfriend to boff another guy because you'll NEVER find out?

You're the men, you're supposed to lead. You are the ones that are supposed to keep women in line. If you have no line, then how can you expect us to have one? If you want to have every hot girl you see, break up with your girlfriend and go get them. (Or negotiate an open relationship where you can both date others)

Make up your mind or at least stop whining about how women cheat, lie and use you, when you do the same thing in secret so you don't "hurt" them.

 

[Trader]

I've seen several of these threads over the years and they all have objectors & defenders. Those solidly against cheating and those who defend it as a "natural male thing".

Let's put this in pure black and white:
Is it okay to do a "bad" thing if I justify it with psycho-babble?

Is it okay to steal money from your employer because you didn't get a raise this year?

Is it okay to shoot your neighbor's dog because it barked all night?

Is it okay to drive 65 in a 25 zone because you gotta get home to pee?

Is it okay for your girlfriend to boff another guy because you'll NEVER find out?

You're the men, you're supposed to lead. You are the ones that are supposed to keep women in line. If you have no line, then how can you expect us to have one? If you want to have every hot girl you see, break up with your girlfriend and go get them. (Or negotiate an open relationship where you can both date others)

Make up your mind or at least stop whining about how women cheat, lie and use you, when you do the same thing in secret so you don't "hurt" them.

"It's not fair, when you guys sleep around, you are called players, but when we do it, we are called sluts!" - my old friend.

Again, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, the minute a guy, I mean boy, I mean guy cheats, he is giving free rein for girls to slut it up. We have created this mess.

Feminists can't have their cake and eat it too (power without responsibility), and guys can't have their cake and eat it either (sleep around, while expecting girls to maintain modesty)

Hypocrisy is definitely not a masculine trait

 

[jafyk]

Trader and water Tiger are any of you female? Just curious. No offence intended whatsoever.

 

[SexyMofo]

You "gentlemen" give women a pass because they are women. You got programmed that by your mommy.

Many of you would kill a guy that cheated $10,000 from you in a poker game, I believe one of you called it "tearing his head off."

Yet when a woman cheats on you, you take it like a b*tch.

Why would you apply violence to a man, but do nothing with a woman?

$10,000 a man can recover in time, but the emotional and financial (if you're married) damage of a woman cheating on you?

There are guys that have killed themselves over a woman...

So spare me your code of honor... You throw away your code and would kill a poker cheater, but give a woman a pass.

See the hypocrisy???

I'm a player and I play by my own rules because women don't play by any rules.

 

[drak_ool]

How about seeing being faithful while apart as an obstacle to overcome.

Ya, there was a time when I used to think like that. Not anymore. I am a very selfish person. If I can have my cake and eat it too, then I'll go ahead and do that. I understand that some pple cannot do that, it will eat them on the inside. But not me.

I'm not gonna put my social life on hold because i'm in a LTR. It's definitely in "slow mode" as I only go out 3-4 times a month. But when I do go out, that means mingling with girls (I'm not a big fan of gay bars ). I'm not actively looking for fresh pvssy like I was in my single days. But I'll interact with chicks and see what happens. I'll roll with the punches if you will.

For example 2 nights ago I ended up hanging out with a bunch of pple, including the girl with DDs that was the reason I started this thread. Long story short, we all ended up skinny dipping in a pool late at night. My wish to play around with those heavenly tits came true! I pulled the girl into a far corner of the pool and got to mess around with her for a while. She was drunk and horny, rubbing my c.ock under the water and trying to squeeze it inside of her. But I didn't have a rubber, so I didn't feel comfortable doing it. Not because I'm against it or never did it before (far from it), simply because I didn't feel like doing that to my girlfriend as you never know what you can catch from these skanks.

wait a second: does that mean that I have... morals? hahaha Not everything is so black and white now, is it?
For the record, my friend who fvcked her last week was encouraging me to do it too, saying he didn't get anything from her. This guy has a gf as well... Is he evil?