A Friends Inconvienent Truth

[DavenJuan]

A Friends Inconvienent Truth​

A friend of mine, 29 years of age, asked me for advice regarding his situation. He is about 1.5 year removed from a live-in LTR. it was a horrible relationship. she was a nagging b*tch, she gained excessive weight, and was depressed during the latter end of their relationship. there was signs of this prior to their commitment to one another, however he indulged himself in this relationship anyway.

This friend of mine is a decent looking guy. in the past, he has had little problems with obtaining female companionship. Once he removed himself from the toxic relationship that he was in with his ex, he purchased his own home, and was back on his feet. A changed man in subtle ways, but he still was the same friend that i grew to know over the last 10 years.

maturity is the word that comes to mind. If anythihg, i can tell you that his perspective of "relationship" changed. he was not about the clubbing scene anymore. he knew exactly what he wanted in the sense of what type of woman.

he eventually found what he wanted in a woman. her name was Lora. unlike his past, he did not play games. he embraced their commonalities as well as their differences. He was happy. she was no "nagging b*tch". she was hardly depressed. she actually had purpose in her life. completely the contrary to what he was accustomed to in his past relationship.

Lora, the woman that all his friends adore. shes a bit timid, but firm. She doesnt drink a single ounce of alcohol yet the most exciting person when everyone is out. For my friend mike, she is exactly what he wanted. however, sometimes things that look to good to be true, are just that. This almost perfect girlfriend comes with baggage. and when my friend expressed his concern to me, i found myself telling him what I WOULD DO, but i dont know if it applies to him.

-Lora, broke up with her ex boyfriend to be with my friend. the ironic part about how they met is they were both at a wedding and lora was currently with her ex boyfriend at that same wedding. She claims that they were already broken up at the time.


-she is upfront with my friend and informs him of her living arrangement. she is currently in school obtaining her pyschology degree, and rooms with 3 other men, one who happens to be her ex boyfriend.

-this ex boyfriend of Lora is apparently diagnosed with Cancer, and she, according to her, is his best friend. they grew up together and have been together for 3 years prior to this current relationship with my friend.​

before knowing all of this about Lora, she was fascinating. she would do ANYTHING for my friend. an almost unconditional type of love sooo soon in this relationship ( 6 months) however, it was never questioned because she herself is a "giver" by every definition. soft hearted and willing to help everyone.

my friend, who would have never been open to such compromise, is willing to accept these things. the living with the ex boyfriend. he mentioned to me how much the ex boyfriend was a computer nerd and overweight. i think this eases my friends concsious. the way i see it is , she was with him before, does it really matter what the ex' looks like..?

what concerns him, now that this relationship is starting to reach the next level, is that she constantly texts back and forth with her apparently sick ex boyfriend when they spend time together. not an occasional text here and there, but religiously.

the text messaging, in some fashion, is accetable to him and her because she does this in front of him, with nothing to hide. however, i would disagree. for me, This was unacceptable. not that the lviing arrangments werent already a big enough redflag. the texting constantly with your ex' while your with me is a complete disrespect to me and our time together.

he addressed this concern with her. and everytime she claims that the ex is texting HER, and that she does not want to be mean and not respond. or that he was/is in the hospital and was "keeping me updated."

now, i do not doubt her legitimate concern for her ex's well being. he is sick, terminally, and can understand how a "giver" can be condoleing. but at the sacrifice of your own relationship?

what i dont understand, is how can a woman who is head over heels for someone, a physchology major, not comprehend how this situation looks? or more importantly, how the blatant disregard with the text messages affects her current relationship? as i type these last few sentences, im ignoring every fiber in my body telling me the logical reasoning behind her actions?

as far as i am concerned, she is still in a relationship with this ex without the intimacy. assuming she stays "faithful" white at home. none the less, i told my friend what i would tell a stranger asking me advice concerning his situation. its simple... too many redflags. blatant disrespect with the texting. etc.

however, is there another possibility? sometimes i fear that my comprehension and expectations are completley different than some others may interpret. maybe he (my friend) is willing to put up with some of these issues. is it fair for me to bestow my beliefs and "expecations" on him?

this, a very unique situation. however, no matter how unique any given situation, there is always a simple solution..

thoughts...?​

 

[Daniel1982]

Tell your friend that he should start going out on his own, no gf. To help him detach a little bit from her. If she is disrespecting him, he simply should stop placing his attention on her.

Hopefully, she will notice this change in attitude, and will stop behaving like this, for fear of loosing him. If she doesn't, then your friend will now be well on his way to recovery

 

[radiodude]

Here's the situation from my perspective:

Your buddy has simply found a higher quality version of what he had before.

There's less stress and hassle, issues, fighting, etc. It's a more fun, relaxing and harmonious relationship. BUT, it's still full of underlying disrespect for him on her part.

Not to mention, she was with the ex right up until she met your buddy, then just dumped her ex for him once she found something better. Besides that, she is rubbing her new relationship with your buddy in her dying ex bf's face. All while living with and 'taking care' of him and being with your buddy at the same time.

She's simply able to pull off a much better act.

The ex should be allowed to die (if he does in fact really die) without the reminder of his girlfriends new man around. Your buddy should be able to have a girlfriend who isn't living with her ex. Sick or not.

 

[jophil28]

Another excellent reason to not become involved with a woman who is a member of the "caring professions" unlees and until you have established your dominance, permanently .

These women typically present as sweet, soft ,competent and compassionate.
However they frequently possess a self righteous superiority which shows itself as "helping" in situations like these. She will be convinced that it is her duty to "rescue" and "support" her ex b/f because of his vulnerability. In fact she is merely indulging her neurotic 'need to be needed'. This is her compulsion at work, more so than sincere personal charity.
Women like this regard themselves as saviors of the small, the weak, the broken, the hurt and the needy.

You might mention to your friend that if her ex B/f dies, she will seek and find another "broken bird"( or several) to nurse , and if she cannot find a suitable candidate she will try to mold your friend into that role by finding and pointing out his shortcomings...for him, life will be one long counseling session.

 

[jonwon]

A Friends Inconvienent Truth​

A friend of mine, 29 years of age, asked me for advice regarding his situation. He is about 1.5 year removed from a live-in LTR. it was a horrible relationship. she was a nagging b*tch, she gained excessive weight, and was depressed during the latter end of their relationship. there was signs of this prior to their commitment to one another, however he indulged himself in this relationship anyway.

This friend of mine is a decent looking guy. in the past, he has had little problems with obtaining female companionship. Once he removed himself from the toxic relationship that he was in with his ex, he purchased his own home, and was back on his feet. A changed man in subtle ways, but he still was the same friend that i grew to know over the last 10 years.

maturity is the word that comes to mind. If anythihg, i can tell you that his perspective of "relationship" changed. he was not about the clubbing scene anymore. he knew exactly what he wanted in the sense of what type of woman.

he eventually found what he wanted in a woman. her name was Lora. unlike his past, he did not play games. he embraced their commonalities as well as their differences. He was happy. she was no "nagging b*tch". she was hardly depressed. she actually had purpose in her life. completely the contrary to what he was accustomed to in his past relationship.

Lora, the woman that all his friends adore. shes a bit timid, but firm. She doesnt drink a single ounce of alcohol yet the most exciting person when everyone is out. For my friend mike, she is exactly what he wanted. however, sometimes things that look to good to be true, are just that. This almost perfect girlfriend comes with baggage. and when my friend expressed his concern to me, i found myself telling him what I WOULD DO, but i dont know if it applies to him.

-Lora, broke up with her ex boyfriend to be with my friend. the ironic part about how they met is they were both at a wedding and lora was currently with her ex boyfriend at that same wedding. She claims that they were already broken up at the time.


-she is upfront with my friend and informs him of her living arrangement. she is currently in school obtaining her pyschology degree, and rooms with 3 other men, one who happens to be her ex boyfriend.

-this ex boyfriend of Lora is apparently diagnosed with Cancer, and she, according to her, is his best friend. they grew up together and have been together for 3 years prior to this current relationship with my friend.​

before knowing all of this about Lora, she was fascinating. she would do ANYTHING for my friend. an almost unconditional type of love sooo soon in this relationship ( 6 months) however, it was never questioned because she herself is a "giver" by every definition. soft hearted and willing to help everyone.

my friend, who would have never been open to such compromise, is willing to accept these things. the living with the ex boyfriend. he mentioned to me how much the ex boyfriend was a computer nerd and overweight. i think this eases my friends concsious. the way i see it is , she was with him before, does it really matter what the ex' looks like..?

what concerns him, now that this relationship is starting to reach the next level, is that she constantly texts back and forth with her apparently sick ex boyfriend when they spend time together. not an occasional text here and there, but religiously.

the text messaging, in some fashion, is accetable to him and her because she does this in front of him, with nothing to hide. however, i would disagree. for me, This was unacceptable. not that the lviing arrangments werent already a big enough redflag. the texting constantly with your ex' while your with me is a complete disrespect to me and our time together.

he addressed this concern with her. and everytime she claims that the ex is texting HER, and that she does not want to be mean and not respond. or that he was/is in the hospital and was "keeping me updated."

now, i do not doubt her legitimate concern for her ex's well being. he is sick, terminally, and can understand how a "giver" can be condoleing. but at the sacrifice of your own relationship?

what i dont understand, is how can a woman who is head over heels for someone, a physchology major, not comprehend how this situation looks? or more importantly, how the blatant disregard with the text messages affects her current relationship? as i type these last few sentences, im ignoring every fiber in my body telling me the logical reasoning behind her actions?

as far as i am concerned, she is still in a relationship with this ex without the intimacy. assuming she stays "faithful" white at home. none the less, i told my friend what i would tell a stranger asking me advice concerning his situation. its simple... too many redflags. blatant disrespect with the texting. etc.

however, is there another possibility? sometimes i fear that my comprehension and expectations are completley different than some others may interpret. maybe he (my friend) is willing to put up with some of these issues. is it fair for me to bestow my beliefs and "expecations" on him?

this, a very unique situation. however, no matter how unique any given situation, there is always a simple solution..

thoughts...?​

There are 3 people in the relationship, it's that simple.

If your friend is happy with that so be it. The cancer thing is not your friends problem or his GF, but regardless its a perfect excuse to deflect any criticism. She has him wrapped around his finger.

Domestic bliss or not, this girl has many red flags. Would I persue? Nope, giving or not, being intouch with an EX-BF is a big no no for me. It is asking for trouble, at the very least there are 3 people in the relationship, he isn't just dating the Girl, he's dating her EX too.

 

[Die Hard]

This thread might as well be closed. Just read Jophil's post, his analysis is 100% correct and tells you (and your friend) everything you need to know.

But I fear it's not gonna matter anyway. Your friend thinks with his heart, not with his head and the only way he'll "get it" is when he gets hurt badly enough.

Keep us updated, though!

 

[Bible_Belt]

Your friend thinks with his heart, not with his head


I must be the same way. I think I'm the only one here who would not be bothered. The dude has cancer and his girlfriend dumped him to go fvck another guy. Let him have his text messages.

 

[DavenJuan]

Originally posted by Jophil28
You might mention to your friend that if her ex B/f dies, she will seek and find another "broken bird"( or several) to nurse , and if she cannot find a suitable candidate she will try to mold your friend into that role by finding and pointing out his shortcomings...for him, life will be one long counseling session.

i havent completely convinced myself of this as of yet, however, it is worth pointing out that she did indeed find my friend fresh out of a long relationship. not that he was emotionally broken, but more mentally.

his perception of what he wanted was pretty clear, but he still was somewhat "tarnished" from the prior ex girlfriend. It is possible that Lora found solace in this.

Very interesting point Jophil.

Originally posted by jonwon
There are 3 people in the relationship, it's that simple.

If your friend is happy with that so be it. The cancer thing is not your friends problem or his GF, but regardless its a perfect excuse to deflect any criticism. She has him wrapped around his finger.

this was my first response to him. pretty much verbatim. as far as he is concerned, this is my advice. its simple, once you express concern for something, and its not fixed/addressed by the other person, then that in itself is a clear indication of going your seperate ways...

however, i have had time to think about it. im not exactly sure HOW i feel about this.

whats really confusing for me atleast, is that my friend expresses this "dilemna" as a concern, but he doesnt seem to be extremely bothered by this. atleast not right now.

regardless of the LEVEL of concern he has, the only thing that continues to burn in my mind is her disregard for ANY level of concern he has.

Originally posted by BB
I must be the same way. I think I'm the only one here who would not be bothered. The dude has cancer and his girlfriend dumped him to go fvck another guy. Let him have his text messages.

..and then my thought process seems to come full circle back to this. do the "circumstances" require compromise....

 

[jophil28]

regardless of the LEVEL of concern he has, the only thing that continues to burn in my mind is her disregard for ANY level of concern he has.


....

Her lack of interest in his feelings is a curious consequence of her overwheling compulsion to "help" others (in this case, her ex B/f).

Women like this are convinced that their mission on the planet is to save others who "need" them, and that belief carries with it a powerful conviction that they are on a 'higher path' . All their life they play the savior, and because their 'helping' looks like selfless charity, they are applauded and respected, which reinforced their beliefs even further.
They frequently become self righteous and conceited in their beliefs that they, and only they, can 'fix' others.

They show remarkable 'compassion' for third parties in need and will expend enormous energy and time in rescuing others, but will neglect the simple and basic requirements of their primary intimate relationship.
An example of this neglect by her is evident already - she is indifferent to your friend's concern. Why? Because the compulsive 'need to be needed' by her Ex B/f is more important TO HER than any 'concern' that you friend has. She is also indifferent to his feelings because they center around HER behavior- in her mind, her own behavior is above reproach. How dare he protest about HER , she is ,of course, a 'higher being' and therefore not subject to the same standards as other mere mortals.

She is having the time of her life, and your friend's feelings are irrelevant to her - after all she is on a mission from God (or so she believes)

 

[jophil28]

... she did indeed find my friend fresh out of a long relationship. not that he was emotionally broken, but more mentally.....

Do you( and he) realize that it was his 'brokenness' that drew her to him , not his dominant or masculine qualities.

These co-dependent women usually have a long history of repeating this 'rescuing' process in their intimate relationships. YOu would be astounded at how many nurses marry alcoholic or drug addicts, and how many teachers marry men who are 'below' them.

If (or when ) the guy stands upright again and recovers from whatever disability he suffered from, she will either try to break him down again into a form which she can control by 'helping' him, or she will leave him.

As is often said in AA ," Sobriety wrecks relationships."

 

[Jitterbug]

I'm an "expert" on dating the caring profession: teachers, nurses, shrinks and doctors (including students of those disciplines). They're always out there finding broken birds to save. At the start, it was an attractive quality (I like kind-hearted women). Eventually, it interfered with quality time together, or I found out that the broken bird is a male friend from the past which happened to be an ex-BF.

Either that, or they're just so self-righteous about everything that it pisses me off and kills the attraction cold-blooded.

In this case, while I think some room can be allowed due to the fact that the other guy is dying of cancer, it's the lack of concern for her boyfriend's feelings on the matter that is a problem.

 

[jophil28]

I'm an "expert" on dating the caring profession: teachers, nurses, shrinks and doctors (including students of those disciplines). They're always out there finding broken birds to save. At the start, it was an attractive quality (I like kind-hearted women). Eventually, it interfered with quality time together, or I found out that the broken bird is a male friend from the past which happened to be an ex-BF.

Either that, or they're just so self-righteous about everything that it pisses me off and kills the attraction cold-blooded.

In this case, while I think some room can be allowed due to the fact that the other guy is dying of cancer, it's the lack of concern for her boyfriend's feelings on the matter that is a problem.

Aaaah, my Little Nephew....you make your Uncle Jophil proud when you express such awareness above your years.

 

[Nutz]

Your friend needs to set boundaries and explain he has standards and expectations. Her texting all the time is unacceptable and needs to stop. It's disrespectful and infringes on the relationship because it's preventing her from giving him her undivided attention when they're together. If she's unwilling to turn off the phone once in a while then she's not the keeper he thinks she is.


Now for the red flags:

1) living with other men
2) living with ex-bf
3) texting ex-bf when with current bf
4) psych major

There are some extenuating circumstances with the ex having cancer, but do not for a minute think she won't crotch hop if there's a rough patch in the relationship. After all, ex-bf's "don't count" in a woman's head when it comes to sex.

Quite frankly this woman has no business being in a relationship right now given how she's wrapped up in the dying ex-bf thing. The OP's friend should "take a break" until she's ready and can have a normal life. It's good for him not having to put up with a gf who's attention is so divided, and it's good for her because she can devote all the time she wants to the ex. Granted the truth is that's never likely to occur as others have already pointed out. She'll most likely just find another cause to throw herself into once the ex-bf either gets cured or dies.

 

[Jitterbug]

Aaaah, my Little Nephew....you make your Uncle Jophil proud when you express such awareness above your years.

Thanks Uncle Jophil

I was (and still am) really into ancient literature and it's full of "misogynistic" lessons on women. I learned early on (despite being clueless about - and still not very good at - attracting women) that the pleasure they can give you is a fraction of the misery they're capable of inflicting on you.

Quite frankly this woman has no business being in a relationship right now given how she's wrapped up in the dying ex-bf thing. The OP's friend should "take a break" until she's ready and can have a normal life. It's good for him not having to put up with a gf who's attention is so divided, and it's good for her because she can devote all the time she wants to the ex. Granted the truth is that's never likely to occur as others have already pointed out. She'll most likely just find another cause to throw herself into once the ex-bf either gets cured or dies.

Consider this also: women LOVE drama. It's what makes them feel alive. One of their favourite dramas is to be torn between two lovers. She is RIGHT where her kind loves to be.

 

[Die Hard]

i havent completely convinced myself of this as of yet, however, it is worth pointing out that she did indeed find my friend fresh out of a long relationship. not that he was emotionally broken, but more mentally.

his perception of what he wanted was pretty clear, but he still was somewhat "tarnished" from the prior ex girlfriend. It is possible that Lora found solace in this.

Very interesting point Jophil.



this was my first response to him. pretty much verbatim. as far as he is concerned, this is my advice. its simple, once you express concern for something, and its not fixed/addressed by the other person, then that in itself is a clear indication of going your seperate ways...

however, i have had time to think about it. im not exactly sure HOW i feel about this.

whats really confusing for me atleast, is that my friend expresses this "dilemna" as a concern, but he doesnt seem to be extremely bothered by this. atleast not right now.

regardless of the LEVEL of concern he has, the only thing that continues to burn in my mind is her disregard for ANY level of concern he has.



..and then my thought process seems to come full circle back to this. do the "circumstances" require compromise....

Boy, are you being an egghead!! Look, suppose this dude wasn't suffering from cancer but instead he was suffering from a drug addiction, which caused him to lose his job, his house and this woman. She doesn't want to be with him anymore but at the same time she does feel sorry for him because he and his life are a mess, and therefor she keeps having all these text conversations with him... I think you would be able to answer your own question (do the "circumstances" require compromise?) a lot easier in that situation, right?

You're letting the details obscure your view on the situation, let me clear your view and explain the situation to you:

* A guy is in a relationship with a girl
* The girl's ex still clings to her and tries to claim her attention
* The girl chooses to significantly give in to this

THE END. The specifics don't matter, whether he needs her because he's lonely, whether he needs her because no one else cares about him, whether he needs her because he has cancer... And don't be such a moron to think that she "just" cares about him as a human being...if she once was his girlfriend and loved him in THAT way, then THOSE feelings will always come into the mix!

Furthermore, it seems like you/your friend have your priorities all mixed up. Who do you live for foremost?! For yourself or for others? You live for yourself in the first place (unless you wanna be Jesus...) and you get into a relationship for yourself in the first place. The moment the happiness of your girlfriend becomes more important to you than your own happiness, you're definitely on the wrong track. I'm not sure if I have to remind you of this insight or that you never had this insight at all, but if the latter is the case, you have a lot of work to do... Anyway, if you understand that it's a big mistake to let a girl's happiness become more important than your own happiness, then you'll agree that letting the happiness of her ex-boyfriend become more important than your own happiness, is absolute INSANITY!!

 

[DavenJuan]

Originally posted by Die Hard
Boy, are you being an egghead!! Look, suppose this dude wasn't suffering from cancer but instead he was suffering from a drug addiction, which caused him to lose his job, his house and this woman. She doesn't want to be with him anymore but at the same time she does feel sorry for him because he and his life are a mess, and therefor she keeps having all these text conversations with him... I think you would be able to answer your own question (do the "circumstances" require compromise?) a lot easier in that situation, right?

Absolutely. If the circumstances were different, such as a drug addiction, baby mama drama, etc. then i would DEFINITELY be able to answer that question with absolute certainty.

but the "circumstances" are not different, which is why i brought this scenerio up for .."discussion", being this a dscussion forum.

Do the circumstances require compromise? i ask this because even though this situation bothers my friend, it isnt to the point where he is ready to walk away. There are other qualities that HE feels outweight this situation. is it for me to judge and give advice on something I WOULD DO vs. what i think HE would do? If he is willing to put up with this, is it for me to say .."run"? i asked this honestly for discussion. as i assume others may have given advice based on their own beliefs etc.

don't be such a moron to think that she "just" cares about him as a human being...if she once was his girlfriend and loved him in THAT way, then THOSE feelings will always come into the mix!

Die Hard, I can take the name calling .."egghead, moron".. what i cant take is someone making an argument with disregard to MY points. I made several references to this point....

"as far as i am concerned, she is still in a relationship with this ex without the intimacy"

"the way i see it is , she was with him before, does it really matter what the ex' looks like..?"

"once you express concern for something, and its not fixed/addressed by the other person, then that in itself is a clear indication of going your seperate ways..."

your argument is valid, but youre arguing the same points I have stated. this makes someone else the "moron' brother

Furthermore, it seems like you/your friend have your priorities all mixed up. Who do you live for foremost?! For yourself or for others? You live for yourself in the first place (unless you wanna be Jesus...) and you get into a relationship for yourself in the first place. The moment the happiness of your girlfriend becomes more important to you than your own happiness, you're definitely on the wrong track.

Agreed. very good point, but this is irrelevant to what was supposed to be addressed.

The OP was addressing the fact that my friend found this as a concern, but he wasnt SOO concerned about this that he is willing to walk away. atleast not yet it seems. i wasnt sure to keep my mouth shut and let him figure things out or not. are we so detached from the 'matrix" that others cant comphrehend or appreciate advice. does it help or hurt them?

I'm not sure if I have to remind you of this insight or that you never had this insight at all, but if the latter is the case, you have a lot of work to do... Anyway, if you understand that it's a big mistake to let a girl's happiness become more important than your own happiness, then you'll agree that letting the happiness of her ex-boyfriend become more important than your own happiness, is absolute INSANITY!!

again, you are correct. However, i dont think i gave the impression that this had anything to do with her overall happiness. Where are you getting this idea from?

"i told my friend what i would tell a stranger asking me advice concerning his situation. its simple... too many redflags. blatant disrespect with the texting. etc.

however, is there another possibility? sometimes i fear that my comprehension and expectations are completley different than some others may interpret. maybe he (my friend) is willing to put up with some of these issues. is it fair for me to bestow my beliefs and "expecations" on him?"


^^ THIS, is the crux of my OP. i wasnt so concerned about her well being, moreso than how we may be ignorant to others feelings that we try to help.

hence, the thread title "Inconvienent Truth"

it was brought up for discussion. i still think it makes an interesting topic brother.

 

[Die Hard]

I don't have a lot of time right now, so I'll get back to you later/tomorrow. I do wanna point out one thing now: My last post was more aimed at you than at your friend. As I said, your friend is most probably beyond help and will only "wake up" when he has experienced enough "pain". I don't think his mind is accessible to most things I said in my post, so I'm not really trying to help him. It's you who I'm talking to and who I'm trying to convince of certain ideas.

Anyway, I'll get back to you later!