A Few Nuggets of Truth

[guru1000]

Now that we have closed Chapter 1 (quality exists), let’s move into Chapter 2, shall we?

Before we discuss quality is not a rare commodity, let us define a few quality traits,

Family Background

Was she taught the proper roles of the household?
What is the present martial status of her parents?
What values have her parents instilled in her?

Family background clearly sets the stage for what's in store for you. Look at the relationship between her mother and father and you will certainly see your present relationship mirroring her parents. Upbringing is the cardinal characteristic of all character traits.

Past Relationships and Present Arrangements

Red Flags

Previous infidelities
F*ck Buddies
Male Friends
Communication with an X

Looking at her past relationships is one of the most effective ways to filter out a woman. If she cheated in the past, she will cheat on you. If a woman has f*ck buddies, she does not respect herself and I can almost guarantee this is a result of how she was raised. Having an army of male friends means she will have a constant need for validation which you alone will not be able to provide.

If she currently speaks to one or several ex boyfriends, walk away. This type of woman has a constant need to be emotionally satisfied and will hold you accountable for her happiness. This is a bad investment and should you choose to gamble with this gambit, understand it is only a matter of time before she branch swings to another serotonin releaser.

Flexiblity

This particular trait is not discussed very often but is a major deal breaker for me. If a woman refuses to surrender in a frame control dynamic, walk away. She MUST know who drives this car and if she cannot sit in the passenger seat, throw her out of the car. You are flexible in allowing her to be a woman just as she must be flexible in your masculinity. If this frame is not set correctly, she will inevitably lose respect for you.

There will be women who refuse to give you the reins, Walk Away . The short term gains never compensate for the long term grief.


Filter on these baseline traits, and you will free up a lot of time to focus on what is truly important, YOU. Women that meet the following selection are not RARE. Rare is a word thrown around here to justify accepting poor behavior as a result of a malfunctioning filter. Rare also suggests “valuable” which predisposes you to pedestal this woman before the rapport develops. A better word to describe this woman is one who meets your baseline compatibility.

You will find that “filtered” women are abundant is certain places and scarce in others. When you walk into the chicken ranch, don’t complain there is too much poultry. The most important step here is to accept responsibility for the choices you make and if you decide to operate without a filter, be prepared to accept the consequences of your decision without objection.

 

[ketostix]

While I agree with the filtering section, I HIGHLY disagree on the rare comments you make. These women ARE rare to find, or I should say.....they are rare when you are also looking for something a little more attractive than a mutant.

Yeah I can't find one of these women that are available even in a church setting. Although I have to admit I haven't stepped foot in a church social group in over 7 years since following the "DJ" path. So forget qualifying and filtering. It's back to square one and first finding one that even needs to be qualified and who isn't blantantly low quality. The real problem is beyond the lack of low quality women but a also a low quality society and culture. A woman could have good values instilled from her family but this society will corrupt that before she turns 22.

 

[Tazman]

I know women from seemingly great backgrounds (a lot better than mine) and they still try and pull a lot of bullsh-t when it comes to men. Filtering is good, but only "time" will reveal their true character.

 

[jophil28]

Now that we have closed Chapter 1 (quality exists), let’s move into Chapter 2, shall we?

Before we discuss quality is not a rare commodity, let us define a few quality traits,

Family Background

Was she taught the proper roles of the household?
What is the present martial status of her parents?
What values have her parents instilled in her?

Family background clearly sets the stage for what's in store for you. Look at the relationship between her mother and father and you will certainly see your present relationship mirroring her parents. Upbringing is the cardinal characteristic of all character traits.

Past Relationships and Present Arrangements

Red Flags

Previous infidelities
F*ck Buddies
Male Friends
Communication with an X

Looking at her past relationships is one of the most effective ways to filter out a woman. If she cheated in the past, she will cheat on you. If a woman has f*ck buddies, she does not respect herself and I can almost guarantee this is a result of how she was raised. Having an army of male friends means she will have a constant need for validation which you alone will not be able to provide.

If she currently speaks to one or several ex boyfriends, walk away. This type of woman has a constant need to be emotionally satisfied and will hold you accountable for her happiness. This is a bad investment and should you choose to gamble with this gambit, understand it is only a matter of time before she branch swings to another serotonin releaser.

Flexiblity

This particular trait is not discussed very often but is a major deal breaker for me. If a woman refuses to surrender in a frame control dynamic, walk away. She MUST know who drives this car and if she cannot sit in the passenger seat, throw her out of the car. You are flexible in allowing her to be a woman just as she must be flexible in your masculinity. If this frame is not set correctly, she will inevitably lose respect for you.

There will be women who refuse to give you the reins, Walk Away . The short term gains never compensate for the long term grief.


Filter on these baseline traits, and you will free up a lot of time to focus on what is truly important, YOU. Women that meet the following selection are not RARE. Rare is a word thrown around here to justify accepting poor behavior as a result of a malfunctioning filter. Rare also suggests “valuable” which predisposes you to pedestal this woman before the rapport develops. A better word to describe this woman is one who meets your baseline compatibility.

You will find that “filtered” women are abundant is certain places and scarce in others. When you walk into the chicken ranch, don’t complain there is too much poultry. The most important step here is to accept responsibility for the choices you make and if you decide to operate without a filter, be prepared to accept the consequences of your decision without objection.

And that, gentleman, is what you need to grasp in fine detail if you are considering an LTR.
No other advice from the 'experts' will ever surpass the wisdom in this post.

 

[DJeasy]

Great post.

Although quality is not necessarily rarity, such women do seem rare.

 

[Slickster]

I agree 100%

Quality women aren't as rare as many believe. The problem is that most dudes think with their d!cks far too much. Take a look at the attitudes towards women that the majority of the so called DJ's here possess.

If you set out with the mindset that all women are slvts and unworthy then that is exactly the type of woman/relationship you will be faced with at the end of the day. Why the fvck would a quality woman waste a single minute with you?

Once a man realizes that sex isn't the most important thing in the world then his relationships with women will change. Maybe it takes sticking your d!ck into a certain number of holes to figure that out. Once you fcuk enough women you realize that they are all pretty much the same. I don't know.

The problem with finding a quality woman lies more in the mindset of the man. There are quality "people" everywhere. Not being able to see that is a reflection of yourself.

 

[Sinistar]

Great post guru! There is no perfect list or definition of a quality woman. But this is the meat of it.

I think about 1 woman (out of 100) pass guru's filtering. Ironically, that's fairly close to the same number of occurances of NPD/HPD/BPD women per 100. I definitely don't see the later as "rare". Is that because we are not actively seeking out the second group? Whereas for many guys have a goalstate mindset to find a "quality" women and thus until they've found one they are labeled "rare".

Think of it another way. If I am even close to right, the odds say you're going to need to meet around 100 women to have a healthy chance at finding one that passes guru's filtering. Now cross this with over 90% of guys being wussified in their upbringing and not feeling good about meeting / dating so many women. Also, a noticeable percentage of guys have upbringings that do not align with guru's list - put another way - with their programming they couldn't spot a "quality" one even if she was sitting on top of him (pardon the pun).

I think if a guy has his crap together, comes from decent family, puts career, family and friends first he only needs a nudge from a place like this and he'll have a hottie that other guys will be envious of. Those other guys will think he's lucky or that he got the last one. Total BS! They are out there. You just have to have the right mindset, be out dating, filtering them better and be a "good catch" yourself. I think the biggest frustration for guys is the last qualifier. How can you possibly expect to meet a "quality" woman when she doesn't see you as quality first?

 

[ketostix]

Given the list of red flags presented by Guru, and those that say they agree with him yet think there are a lot of quality women.....

I have to believe that a lot of people here are bad at math. Considering that approximately half of the women that you meet have divorced or broken families, and given that a very large number of women still communicate with ex's, not to mention have had f-buddies or have male friends.....then it stands to reason that the majority of women out there are not quality.

Yeah when I look at Guru's redflags:

Previous infidelities
F*ck Buddies
Male Friends
Communication with an X

Virtually all women have all these red flags. You may not be able to prove it for fact, but you can be pretty sure that any and all women have these redflags.

Really there's only one Redflag-a woman who is living in a feminist society. That's all American women. So what we're really saying is the bar is already so low but find the woman that is closes to the bar.

 

[STR8UP]

That is a good point, a lot depends on one's definition of "Rare". To me, 1% of the female population is the equavalent to rare.

Yea, guru can crank out a great post, but when other posters throw around a number like "1 in 100" and when he himself has admitted in the past to dating over 100 women per year (over how many years???) it pretty much annihilates the idea that these women are "more common than you think".

 

[ketostix]

That is a good point, a lot depends on one's definition of "Rare". To me, 1% of the female population is the equavalent to rare.

Hey Danger, tell me if my math sound about right. I would put the women that pass all screening way lower than 1%, but let's run with 1%. I would estimate 80% of the population of males want this 1% of female. That's 80:1 odds. I'm not an expert on game theory but I know that you cannot win a game in the long haul that you do not have an advantage at least somewhat greater than 1:1 lol.

Here's where some people might disagree with me, you cannot be in the top 1% without elements of luck that are beyond your control, genetic luck, enviromental luck etc. Happenstance aligning in a person life makes the difference.

I don't even think of quality/ low quality women per se anymore. I see it as about the best you can do is spend some finite time with a desirable and attractive woman.

 

[Sinistar]

Yea, guru can crank out a great post, but when other posters throw around a number like "1 in 100" and when he himself has admitted in the past to dating over 100 women per year (over how many years???) it pretty much annihilates the idea that these women are "more common than you think".

About 180 posts to go and we'll be no longer have to listen to your "run, run, women are out to get us attitude". That's not bitterness - that's fear. Your like friggin 30-some years old and you still fear women. Anyway, good riddance I say and now I'd really like to have a beer with Rollo one day to hear first hand what he really sees in you.

Now let's think without fear for a second. What was guru's (or any other guys) attitude for several hundred of those women he dated - maybe he wasn't seeking a LTR or kids yet. If so, even he might admit a few of those may have been "quality" women and he just wasn't ready or maybe he couldn't see it at the time.

Also, how do you explain Azanon or Rollo or any of the other posters who have found a good decent attractive woman in numbers far less than you are suggesting. Maybe as they became more aware they got better and better at screening and didn't even need to invest time in actual dates to just know a woman isn't a good match and why waste the time figuring it out (following your gut vs checking off a list). So what might look like impossible odds in the end weren't really all that overwhelming after all. Also, with the right attitude, you tend to attract better women and not as many AW's, ridiculous female friends and all the other drama queens out there that would have you tend to believe that women are out to take the world away from us.

Oh yeah, that was pretty much for Str8up and all his fear filled followers out there. You're not negative. You're not tired of it all. You're afraid.

And ketostix is onto the other part of this. Even if one woman in 20 was so called "quality" you'd still have competition. So quit crying like babies and be winners instead of the whiners. If I was Alan I would have banned you about 3000 posts back. You may have a following but in the end your message hurts more guys trying to be men because they come here with open minds only to hear "women are evil, run, protect yourself". Yeah, great message.

 

[guru1000]

If quality is rare, I must be a lucky guy having found it quite often. Isn't it ironic how some guys meet plenty of women that fit the bill while others never do. When you bring enough value to the table, the mythical unicorn does not seem so rare. Why do you suppose men of scarcity never seem to meet the mythical beast ?

Gentlemen, outlined is a guideline. If ALL the woman you meet do not fit the selection, the problem is YOU.

 

[STR8UP]

About 180 posts to go

And I'm hitting my limit every day in anticipation of my departure from this soul-sucking crab barrel.

and we'll be no longer have to listen to your "run, run, women are out to get us attitude". That's not bitterness - that's fear. Your like friggin 30-some years old and you still fear women.

Where are the reading comprehension police when you need them? Here is what I posted. If you come up with me "fearing" women from this, you are either not very intelligent or you don't bother to read what I write just like half of the rest of this board.

Yea, guru can crank out a great post, but when other posters throw around a number like "1 in 100" and when he himself has admitted in the past to dating over 100 women per year (over how many years???) it pretty much annihilates the idea that these women are "more common than you think".

Instead of acknowledging a valid point, you try to shame me, calling me "afraid" of women. When those words come out of the mouth of a man, I know who I am dealing with. A man with a vagina.

Anyway, good riddance I say and now I'd really like to have a beer with Rollo one day to hear first hand what he really sees in you.

Better yet, invite Deep Dish (Rogue). I get together with him every few weeks for our monthly b!tch fest where we sit around and talk about how much we hate and fear women. Hell, a couple of times I have even lashed out at the female bartender, calling her a "worthless wh0re, just like the rest!"

Also, how do you explain Azanon or Rollo or any of the other posters who have found a good decent attractive woman in numbers far less than you are suggesting.

And I once caught a fish on a bare hook!

Azanon....sounds like he was in the right place at the right time. Could be wrong, but I think Rollo banged his way through a h0 or 50 before he found a good situation.

Oh yeah, that was pretty much for Str8up and all his fear filled followers out there. You're not negative. You're not tired of it all. You're afraid.

If you weren't aware of this, someone should really point it out; you sound like a bitter 40 year old woman.

If I was Alan I would have banned you about 3000 posts back.

For what? Speaking the truth? This place has devolved into a bunch of defensive ninnies who can't handle the idea that there might not be that one special cupcake out there that will give their life purpose.

Now the morality brigade has everyone talking about how we have to start setting examples by going on a pu$$y strike.

I'm gonna leave, and eventually some of the others who are more vocal about the Unpalatable Truth will haul ass, then eventually Those Who Know The Truth But Dare Not Speaketh will be gone, and you can all sit around and talk about quality women, your loyal duties as men, and all the other destructive crap that seems to be taking an inevitable foothold around here.

You may have a following but in the end your message hurts more guys trying to be men because they come here with open minds only to hear "women are evil, run, protect yourself". Yeah, great message.

The problem with you and a lot of the others is that you come here with the "I will open my mind until it becomes uncomfortable" attitude. I am (was) here to push you beyond your pain threshold. Now you will have to rely on Kx, Don, Piranha, Aenigma, Rollo, and a few others (sorry if I left you out) for your loving kick in the ass.

And if I "have a following" as you say, there must be a few others who think as I do.

The funny thing is, when you go out into the real world you can't even talk about the "lite" stuff that is discussed here on SS without drawing harsh criticism.

Am I a bitter, fearful woman hater?

Or is there another layer of crap you haven't yet purged from your system?

It would seem to me that if you eagerly swallowed lies for most of your life (as did I) you might be susceptible to holding onto a few of the more unpleasant ones out of fear, discomfort, and a deep seated ego investment?

It's no coincidence that all of the married guys (with the exception of Rollo) hold this fairy tale view of women. Rollo is about the only one who is man enough to put his ego aside and call it for what it is.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

185 more post to go! You think you'd do something more constructive with your last post than whining about how YOU think things should be.

What a waste.

 

[Sinistar]

Danger,

To you 1 out of 100 may be rare. To the next guy 1 of 10,000 might be rare. You responded twice regarding this so obviously you feel strongly about it. I'm not trying to get you to agree with me - I just think there comes a time when you have to decide - is the task at hand just not worth it - or is not so bad after all and the only way to prevail (ie obtain the outcome you desire) is to keep the chin up, dust yourself off and keep going.

 

[Sinistar]

And I'm hitting my limit every day in anticipation of my departure from this soul-sucking crab barrel.

So why did you really stay for the last 6800????

I predicted it last night before I finished the post; you would try and call my last post a shaming technique - well guess what dude it doesn't work that way. It wasn't shaming. It was reality. BTW the shaming angle is getting old already.

You don't agree with half of the posters here. So you post your view of the world as some kind of "message" and invest hours of energy trying to defend it. Why do we expend so many hours defending something - because we fear it's loss.

I think the "truth" is, you have finally found a following in what I perceive to be your misery. I say take them with you. Call it "truth". Call it whatever you like. I will however predict one thing - although YOU may find temporary happiness in your following and your message - it will not help any of them to become better MEN and they will eventually leave and you'll be right back here where the majority of guys (especially new ones) who don't dare question you because of a ridiculous post count or rep points or the way you post.

I have a friend just like you (yes, there are 1,000's of messengers just like str8up in this world). He shares a view of life much like yours. He think's he's found the way things really work. He tries spreading his message. His relationship history tracks yours almost post for post. And guess what - every time (usually he gets dumped or flaked or left confused and wanting to analyze it) it's the woman's fault. To him the "quality" woman is now bordering on mythical. I tell him to look in mirror and he just doesn't see it. Everyone does but him. Everyone in the world is wrong and he is right.

There are guys just coming here. Their minds are open. In the end what is a better message (generally speaking):

A.) Tell them that all women are ho's, that "quality" women are so rare as to be almost impossible to find. That guys who have found great women are lucky. That the feminized world is out to get them at every turn. And then to keep them plugged into this repeating message.

or

B .) Inform them how women really work and put the blame and responsibility back on the guy because he is now aware. Then encourage him to get back out with the attitude that he has nothing to fear as long as he's willing to lead and to accept realistic expectations as to how women will interact with men throught out dating and relationships.

Where are the reading comprehension police when you need them? Here is what I posted. If you come up with me "fearing" women from this, you are either not very intelligent or you don't bother to read what I write just like half of the rest of this board.

Yes, I don't bother to read a good part of what you write because there is no message in it. It is basically 90% drama making, drivel and dissecting tiny bits and pieces to try and "win" like forum posting is some kind of game or something.

Do something constructive for a change. Take the break you were talking about. If your message is so important the following won't go away right? They will stay out there waiting for you to find your new voice (ie the blog you spoke of). Or are we talking about fear again. Fear of no one following you.

I can pretty much predict your response to this (and all posts challenging you); dissect bits and pieces, attempt to categorize those who don't follow your message, maybe beat your chest a bit on which other posters back you up. Heck, maybe you'll even ramp up with some name calling, etc, etc, etc. It is all too predictable. It's actually boring and useless. Your message, your attitude and your view of the world and women is boring. You know why it's boring - because there are so many other people out there doing and saying the exact same thing. These are the very people that the rest of us simply eject from lives because they're just downers.

Stop being that guy str8up. You've got way too much to offer this world (and yourself) to waste it on a message we all know already. Instead of teaching guys how to avoid failure or pain, teach them how to achieve success with women.

Regarding Rollo, Azanon and others. Hey, maybe they each spent at least 5 minutes (or more) with 500 different women before they found a good woman for them (notice "quality" woman is the biggest deception of all). Then my numbers would be off by a factor of a whole whopping 5x. But any guy who sees the glass half full (and has figured himself out first) would keep at it. Look at it another way. If your or I were to meet 30 women per year starting at age 18, sleeping with some ejecting most and getting to know them for at least 2hr's each, I would have met 500 women by age 35. I have zero doubt that I would have meet at least one that would fallen into the "quality" category.

Actually, in the earlier years I probably would have met these so called "quality" women but not have been ready or able to identify it. So ironically, the number might be closer 100:1. And that doesn't count all the married women and other women considered "unavailable" that would also fall in this category.

There is no such thing as a universally "quality" woman. Guru's list is great for guys coming here trying to learn because they may have never been told of the ways women will indicate that they are poor STR/LTR candidates. They have no clue because they lacked a strong male figure in their upbringing. The really have no clue until they read it here. So why then follow it with a tone that "quality" women are so rare when indeed there are a lot of compatible attractive well valued women out there who think the exact same thing about men. The hard part is the overall effort required, not the individual battles.

 

[Perseus]

WORD & props to Sinistar. Almost always great posts and responses.

 

[mrRuckus]

You can determine what a woman is all about in 5 minutes?

 

[Sinistar]

You can determine what a woman is all about in 5 minutes?

...I wish, I could have avoided a lot of headaches over the years!

When I stated 5min above it was in regards to other posters on the forum who seem to have found good women for them. For the benefit of the doubt, I just assumed that they may have met and spent at least 5min with many, many different women. Somewhere, as they got better at reading women that's probably all it took to determine if A.) They had enough interest to warrant further effort and B.) Any of the immediate obvious major disqualifiers. Who knows, maybe the first 20 women took them half their lives? I guess you'll have to ask them I just believe that somewhere as they figured this sh!t out they got better and better at it until they really just trusted their gut and didn't look back to lament ejections.

In the same paragraph I think I gave a more realistic example. If a guy could average meeting 2-3 women a month and spend about 2hrs on a short 1st date and 2nd date I think by our age, with a much better knowledge of women you're gut will tell you (and be right) whether to continue or not. And in more cases than not, you can get indicators out of them overtly because they love talking about themselves.

How about a few examples. One day this very attractive woman (late 20's) walks into a business where I instruct part time (great social proof situation BTW). Someone sent her my way because I had traveled where she was going in a few months. Instead of making friendly AFC chit chat, the first thing I did was kid her with 'I bet you and your friends are going to get in trouble down there' followed by a very c0cky grin. Obviously she liked the question (actually the attention) and out popped a textbook AW reply 'Actually, all my friends are guys and we'll be flying their planes down.' Sure she was attractive. How many guys would have went on to pursue - 90% at least. But I learned (the hard way) that a woman who is a clutch outcast with no healthy set of female friends isn't even worth FB status.

Another easy example. I always asked a woman (and still do) almost immediately about her family. I like asking "So when did you last get together with your entire family and what did you do?". A lot of women (and men for that matter) really get irritated at that question because there isn't a lot of wiggle room if there are problems burried. It's a completely safe and fair question. But if not everyone got together there is often a rift. On more than one occasion the answer was "my dad is an alcoholic..." (future AW) or "my mom is an alcoholic..." (oh great another cluster-B candidate)" or "my brother has drug problems...".

Maybe those last example seems a bit cold but we all know the odds are strongly against any type of successful (insert your def'n of successful here) STR/LTR when coming from these beginnings. And women have the exact same right to look at it this way and eject us. They'd be foolish not too and we'd big bigger fools to expect them not too.

In two hours you can ask these and countless other simple questions such as have you been married - maybe once is okay but 2,3,4+ times! Do you have children. If yes (and you really want to cuckold his kids) follow that up with what is the custody arrangement, did it end nicely. Move onto to finances with stuff like do you own a home and cross that with the divorce history.

Even the normal C&F shakes out a lot of obvious stuff. I once met a girl who got offended when I used some C&F and teased with a rather innocent name. Turns out she was a control freak with daddy issues. Note to self eject girls who dislike healthy bits of teasing they're just major pains in the arse later. Then there is religion and the list goes goes on and on and on.

There are the "idle" time clues as well. If she is calling and texting you know her IL is high but too much of this - it will be a sink hole to maintain (FB at best). If she doesn't return a first contact or doesn't counter it is so obvious but guys still think there's a chance (almost funny I guess). If she bangs you on the first date, it doesn't necessarily mean she good or bad - she's just really attracted to you (great!) or really needs attention (bad) but that will be pretty obvious by the idle time between and the next date or two.

Also, remember idle times should take zero effort or you're still too focused on women as a primary objective. That's why some guys think this process takes so much time. Because they are not busy enough with work, family, friends, hobbies and interests and thus they instead focus on women (when they aren't even there!) and it makes it seem as if even more time is required for dating.

Obviously you can rule out physical attraction with a mere glance. But any guy who thinks he needs to invest STR/LTR amounts of time to disqualify just didn't get the program when he came here.

Maybe you want to scan for old posts or start a new one where the guys here suggest their questions / angles used for faster screening on the first few dates. I'm sure some of the guys here have some awesome innocent / fun q's that women love to answer but don't realize what they are revealing about themselves.

So 5min - maybe the masters can pull this off. But I usually knew in about 2hrs of direct contact (internet / phone don't count) and made my decision from there and DID NOT LOOK BACK! This attitude helps your frame as well since the entire time you're having fun with the process and gathering information to make a decision (and get laid).

The hardest part for guys isn't running the screening process, it's their scarcity mentality overruling their gut instinct driving them to sink lots of wasted time into "knowing for sure". Only to blame or criticize women afterwards when they really knew it all along and just couldn't "risk" missing something.

 

[guru1000]

The problem most men face is not pulling the NEXT trigger until a major disqualifier is committed. This is a faulty practice that often results in lost time. Sinister has brought up some fantastic examples of immediate disqualifiers in opens or small talk.

I have found that all it takes is one date to make a judgment call based on this selection. This only serves to your benefit with more time to focus on YOU and less on unworthy candidates.

Time is your most precious commodity,

Qualify.