A discussion on confidence and a personal update

[imarockstar]

Hey guys, I wanted to talk about confidence and share a bit of an update on me. So basically, the past year I have really been working hard to get my life to a point where I do not have to rely on a girl for my happiness. I want a full life; I want to be a man with passions that will fulfill him beyond that of the fragile love of a woman. Also, I wanted to get to a point where I wouldn't care if I get rejected or not because for some reason, that has always been a huge fear of mine. I used to have terrible, paralyzing misconceptions that if I get turned down then everyone I know will find out and it will embarrass me to no end.

During this journey of talking to women, having times of failure, rethinking my strategy, then executing again, I noticed that a woman will pretty much date any guy that is confident enough in himself. Trust me when I say this, looks mean absolutely nothing, to those of you who worry, because (and I HATE to sound like I am bragging because I am not that type of guy) I am a great looking guy. All my life, not every single day but a lot, people have gone out of their way to say how good looking I am and that I look like certain really good looking celebrities. God I hate saying this kind of stuff but its to prove a point.

I have had a pretty hard time of getting women the past couple years and it is due to my complete lack of confidence. I have had a few LTR's but they were set up through friends or I was approached because luckily I am high up in the looks department. Looks definitely do not hurt, and they can help as I noted above, but without confidence, I do not have the power to pick and choose who I want, I just have to wait around for something to happen.

Luckily, I was smart enough to realize this as of late, and things are taking a slight turn in the right direction. I took a break from gaming chicks last year because I was awaiting the arrival of my child and wasn't sure where I stood with the mother. Things didn't pan out between us (in retrospect, thank god!), so the last couple months I have been feeling like I am ready to get back out there and get a girlfriend. And the only reason I am ready is because I pretty much have a structured path and a plan of how I want to live my life now. I have been doing mma for a year now, finishing school with great grades, working out like crazy, trying new things and going new places, being social and making more friends, and taking steps to get that dream job. At the same time, I have been battling destructive habits, such as smoking cigs and occasional drug use, laziness, negative mindsets, playing xbox 10 hours a day sometimes! lol. and so on...

It seems like every other guy I know who gets women is extremely confident and happy with their life. A lot of the time, these guys are not the most attractive, however, a lot of them do work out now that I think about it, so they got that going for them. Perhaps they have good jobs too, and maybe I am jumping to conclusions, but it seems like a lot of them don't have much meaning in life. They work, maybe go to the gym a couple times a week, then party all weekend, and this is enough for them to be very confident in themselves.

This is what I wanted to discuss I guess. I mean, I just don't get it. I mean, if we talk about the other guys who get women, who don't work out, have crappy jobs, don't dress well, are unintelligent, have no passion, bad hygiene, it literally baffles me that they can get women of a decent quality just by being really confident in their interactions with women. The kind of trashy, going nowhere in life, out of shape, poorly groomed men can get women just by possessing an undeserved high regard for themselves. It kind of bothers me sometimes because I feel like I have done so much with my life lately and worked so hard and other guys take shortcuts to get these girls. Although I know that these relationships most likely won't last because the girl will eventually realize that he is a loser.

Even the standard guy who does well, has a good job, works out a little, then drinks all weekend, how is this enough? Not to get women so much, but how are people ok with just having such a routine, normal life. By this I mean no passions or hobbies. I don't know all of these guys that well, but some I know pretty personally and I know for sure that they don't do anything in their free time except drink or play video games.

Well I am proud to say that today I had a bit of a turning point. There is this girl whom I have been talking to for 2 weeks, and it's definitely my fault for not showing her enough interest because I kind of told her I would call her back and never did. However, I decided to try again today and set something up with her but she didn't answer. In the past, I would constantly check my phone, plague my thoughts about what she was doing or why she wouldn't answer, then hours later become a bit angry, then even later, a bit depressed thinking to myself, "Why am I not good enough?" Lol. I can't believe how pathetic I have been. Anyways, I was on facebook a little while ago and right there in my news feed was a pic of her and some guy was up of them at a hockey game. All I could think was, "her loss, she doesn't know what she's missing", and more importantly, I actually meant it.

In conclusion, I just hope that my mindset continues on this way. This, to me, is the "authentic confidence" that either Pook or Señor Fingers talked about in the bible. I have been trying to achieve this for a really long time. Looks have never been enough for me. Neither has been living a mediocre life. Constantly learning, achieving and improving myself each and every day is the only thing that will continue to give me authentic confidence. I used to be a complete loser, drinking, smoking weed and cigs, playing video games hours a day, being out of shape, going to work then hanging out with my loser friends or maybe girlfriend depending on the point in my life, and that was all I needed. Perhaps this is the answer. I was somewhat confident back then because I didn't know any better. I think when I discovered this site after my first LTR breakup, I set the bar extremely high for myself because I never wanted a girl to destroy me again. It has been five years since I found this site, and I think that I have made leaps and bounds in changing my life, but I will always have work to do. I guess I am at that maintaining stage.

Feel free to comment or discuss your definition of confidence or similar observations, or criticisms for that matter. Just know that I did not intend to come off like I am better than anyone. Me, in person, is pretty friendly, accepting, and humble. I am friends with everyone. But deep down, we all know that some people are doing better or doing more in life than others, which is ok, but there are men out there who give the word "man" a bad name. This is just something that has been on my mind lately, that some people are completely confident with themselves based off of very little work or achievements. Maybe the simplest answer is that they are good at faking it, or that their personality simply allows them to not care. I just have this feeling that the real men of past generations, the kings, the warriors, the men with purpose, are slowly dying out and that sadly, women are becoming more empowered because our expectations of women are not the same as what we expect out of a man.

At the most basic level, my beef is with "men" who rely on either women or negative conquests such as constant partying, tv, video games, and so on, to fulfill their lives, rather than being men and achieving, learning something new, or improving. My beef is with men without purpose, and it seems that these types are increasing in volume.

 

[Fruitbat]

You're good looking and women approach you, yet you think the other guys take "shortcuts"? What the hell are you talking about?

I have never once had a woman approach me who wasn't just on the lookout for attention only. Every woman I have ever got has been down to who I am, not what I am.

If you seriously think that Confidence is a bigger asset than looks, you are sorely, sorely mistaken. Usually having looks gives you confidence, and it's us average men who have to work hard to deal with rejections, so when those guys who take "shortcuts" get with decent women, they have had probably 20x as many rejects as you.

I have no sympathy for attractive men and I actively sabotage them, and their social standing whenever I can. It's the only way guys like me who aren't touched by gods grace can survive and compete.

Sounds bad I know but it's how it is. if you had to be put up with being last in line when you were growing up to friends who had to do nothing more than sit there and watch the pvssy roll in, it does make you bitter and twisted. Also, when you get a HB, your game better be pretty tight the whole time because all a good looking dude has to do is 50% of the game you have and she's off.

It's a cruel, cruel world hence I will deliberately target any good looking males in whichever group I am in for subtle defamation and intimidation. All under the radar, obviously it can't be obvious.

Keep your eye out for guys like me :nono:

EDIT As reaching high number of posts - Hullothere - that's why you need to fvck them up any opportunity you get. It isn't enough to just be the best you can be, if you get the chance to challenge and knock them down, do it, and do it ruthlessly.

The great news is guys, that good looking dudes never had to work for anything, and they never had to develop themselves or their game, so you can put themselves out of their depth pretty quickly.

 

[tryst type]

I've also noticed guys who are good looking don't exactly exude real confidence but more so arrogance especially the teenager to early 20s groups and guess what, chicks seem to react positively to this.

It makes you wonder if being truly confident is what a girl wants or if she secretly likes the egotistical guy who shamelessly flaunts it as much as women hate to admit it attracts them.

 

[Hullothere]

I think its dishonest to say that looks don't matter because they certainly do with a small minority of men. I have a friend that is 6'5 and built with a very handsome face. We can just be walking in public and women will literally walk past him, turn around and say "wow he is so hot". **** like that literally happens every time I go out with him. When we get into a bar, within 5 minutes he has HB7-8s approaching him, he doesn't have to do anything. If hes sitting down at the bar, women will literally go and sit next to him to talk or girls that are walking by will grab his arm while walking by and say "ohh you are cute".

lol its pretty ridiculous.. but you gotta work with what God gave you. Increasing your value will increase your confidence. Work on being a better man. I'm 6ft but only weight 150lbs so I probably look like a twink to most of these chicks. When the hb8-9s approach my friend with me there, they pretty much ignore wtf im saying to them lol. Think I need to increase my presence and weight a bit.

 

[zekko]

I noticed that a woman will pretty much date any guy that is confident enough in himself. Trust me when I say this, looks mean absolutely nothing, to those of you who worry, because (and I HATE to sound like I am bragging because I am not that type of guy) I am a great looking guy. All my life, not every single day but a lot, people have gone out of their way to say how good looking I am and that I look like certain really good looking celebrities.

One thing I've noticed on this site is that the posters who say that looks don't matter are the good looking guys. Or at least guys who say they are good looking, lol. Usually guys who are lacking confidence or who aren't good at making conversation. They can usually get some quick interest with a girl, but if they can't talk to them at all of course they end up bombing out, and that probably wrecks their confidence.

I think its dishonest to say that looks don't matter because they certainly do with a small minority of men. I have a friend that is 6'5 and built with a very handsome face. We can just be walking in public and women will literally walk past him, turn around and say "wow he is so hot". **** like that literally happens every time I go out with him. When we get into a bar, within 5 minutes he has HB7-8s approaching him, he doesn't have to do anything. If hes sitting down at the bar, women will literally go and sit next to him to talk or girls that are walking by will grab his arm while walking by and say "ohh you are cute".

Yeah, I've been out with guys like this, it's pretty irritating lol. I can't imagine that experiences like this wouldn't build your confidence. But I guess if your social skills are crap, that will still hold you back. Thing is, if you are working on getting your skills together, AND you are a good looking guy, these have to be the guys who are getting the best results.

It's like on the Pickup Artist TV Show, the winner they picked was one of the better looking guys. The good looking guys have a potentially higher ceiling, I think, when it comes to romantic activities. And something that isn't discussed much here, if you are a downright actually ugly guy, that can mess up your chances for sure.

 

[imarockstar]

Zekko and hullothere,

you guys are right. looks can matter, but as you stated zekko, not in closing the deal. again, not to boast, but i remember last year i was at a bar and a good looking girl told her bartender friend that she wanted to talk to me. I told her to come over and we ended up exchanging numbers. yes, looks can help, but the bottom line is that they don't matter because you could look like brad pitt but be extremely socially awkward and the girl will run. if you give her a reason to second guess sleeping with you, then she will take it. women seem to believe whatever you believe about yourself.

tryst type,

you raise a pretty interesting question. in my opinion, i feel that women are generally pretty shallow, and that dooshy, egotistical, full of himself guy who possesses unwarranted "confidence" is probably what girls respond to. I put confidence in quotes because its fake confidence usually, especially if the guy thinks they are better than someone because of their looks, because there is a lot more to being a man than looking good. it actually should be at the bottom of the list, thats a feminine value.

fruitbat,

the shortcuts comment was based on men who exude this false confidence in order to get women. these guys will say and do anything to get laid, because they have nothing better going on in their life, even if it means belittling others, or as you stated, sabotaging others, in order to make yourself look better. thats fake. you didn't earn the right to be confident, you are faking it by making false accusations about others to bring them down to your level or even lower. trust me, I have to do just as much work as you, if not more. do the slvtty girls hit on me and approach me, yes. do the classy, wholesome, girlfriend types, nope. and they play the hard to get game even harder because if i am better looking than them, they act like they are better than me in an attempt to bring me down to their level. see, what you are doing is using a female's tactic. I don't know you personally, but I suggest you not try to make others look bad, its just bad for you man. and its weak. and although there is a very small population of us who actually train, trust me that if you attempted some sort of intimidation on someone like me, it would be useless. i fight 3-4 times a week. just remember, you never know who is a fighter and who isn't. i guess that's one thing that can be said for sure about looks, they can be very deceiving.

 

[Fruitbat]

Zekko and hullothere,

you guys are right. looks can matter, but as you stated zekko, not in closing the deal. again, not to boast, but i remember last year i was at a bar and a good looking girl told her bartender friend that she wanted to talk to me. I told her to come over and we ended up exchanging numbers. yes, looks can help, but the bottom line is that they don't matter because you could look like brad pitt but be extremely socially awkward and the girl will run. if you give her a reason to second guess sleeping with you, then she will take it. women seem to believe whatever you believe about yourself.

tryst type,

you raise a pretty interesting question. in my opinion, i feel that women are generally pretty shallow, and that dooshy, egotistical, full of himself guy who possesses unwarranted "confidence" is probably what girls respond to. I put confidence in quotes because its fake confidence usually, especially if the guy thinks they are better than someone because of their looks, because there is a lot more to being a man than looking good. it actually should be at the bottom of the list, thats a feminine value.

fruitbat,

the shortcuts comment was based on men who exude this false confidence in order to get women. these guys will say and do anything to get laid, because they have nothing better going on in their life, even if it means belittling others, or as you stated, sabotaging others, in order to make yourself look better. thats fake. you didn't earn the right to be confident, you are faking it by making false accusations about others to bring them down to your level or even lower. trust me, I have to do just as much work as you, if not more. do the slvtty girls hit on me and approach me, yes. do the classy, wholesome, girlfriend types, nope. and they play the hard to get game even harder because if i am better looking than them, they act like they are better than me in an attempt to bring me down to their level. see, what you are doing is using a female's tactic. I don't know you personally, but I suggest you not try to make others look bad, its just bad for you man. and its weak. and although there is a very small population of us who actually train, trust me that if you attempted some sort of intimidation on someone like me, it would be useless. i fight 3-4 times a week. just remember, you never know who is a fighter and who isn't. i guess that's one thing that can be said for sure about looks, they can be very deceiving.

I tried very hard to just be the better man etc but the truth is you have to fight dirty. Yes it is a female tactic, but the funny thing is that men don't fall for that BS, women do. If you can wreck your rivals social standing, then that can work. So actually it's far better for men to do this than women.

Well, my fuecking heart bleeds, how awful it must be to be a good looking guy. I have no sympathy whatsoever, you try walking a mile in an average guys shoes and you will find out you are whining about nothing. In the long run you will always get on better than regular guys, period. It winds me up a bit to be honest, because you have it made if you are genuinely good looking. yes I am twisted, fake, bitter about it but that's life. You only get one shot and you're either lucky or you're not. From what you said you are one of the lucky ones, so make what you can from it. Don't put down "fake" confidence dudes, because that's all they have. They had to develop that fake confidence while you have been given a golden kiss from heaven, the game has been fixed up for people like you so you shouldn't be whining about how difficult it is.

It's my problem, not yours though. I learned from bitter experience it was always going to be difficult for me hence my utter hatred of top 10% looks guys, it eats me up that every girl I am with is lusting after these dudes and it makes me want to crack their skull open and stamp there balls. jealousy, yes. But it's easy to have virtues when you have it made. If there is a shred of justice in this world you may come back as a regular guy and find out how it feels, and how all of those personality traits (envy, pride, aggression, jealousy, deceit etc) come a lot more naturally when you got shafted by the god of genetics.

That said, I have done pretty well considering this. it's nothing personal against you, I reserve this hatred for all hansome guys....and to be honest, if the rival is a MMA, boxer, whatever I don't really care. You have to take a few beatings in life, upset a few people, to get what you want. I ain't the toughest in the world.

 

[Burroughs]

fruitb how do you wreck a rivals standing in a bar/social situation?

 

[tryst type]

There's truth in a guy having good looks helping him appear to have confidence.

I know two guys who are considered good looking.

1st outwardly appears to exude confidence because he knows he's attractive from many girls openly telling him. This instantly helps him give off a confident vibe which women respond well to, however that's basically it. He's needy and acts desperate, not long after a girl suddenly finds him unattractive and has no interest. I've heard this many times about this particular guy, if he learned to keep his mouth shut he'd be hooking up constantly based off looks alone.

2nd guy has good looks and is better socially but eventually becomes needy which girls notice and use to their advantage. They play hard to get, make him work for any physical contact, and at the same time gloat that he's pursuing them (since people him attractive or makes the girl's ego sky rocket)

Both these guys are taller than 5'9 and that drastically helps give off a confident vibe.

Me being 5'5 it's a lot harder to convey that regardless if girls find me attractive. Takes a little more effort on my part and my personality needs to be conveyed to help.

So needless to say if all three of us were in the same room I would not be first choice regardless if I have a genuine confidence about me because physically compared to them I'm too short thus in a girl's eyes not as "manly"

This is one reason I don't like trying to game in big crowds like at bars or social gatherings, too much work and I'm not about to compete for anyone's attention. But when I get a girl interested and we're around others it's easier to maintain her interest since she's already got a sense of my legitimate confidence.

 

[Lexington]

If we assume that looks have a normal distribution, then ~68% of the population should fall within 1 standard deviation of the average. ~16% of the population would be 1 standard deviation or higher. I'd argue that the distribution is actually skewed to the right given the shockingly high rates of obesity in this country.

With all of these things considered, most guys who eat well and put in their time at the gym could easily be 7s when it comes to looks. That's before grooming, style, confidence, Game and money are factored in. You throw in the numbers game and a lot of guys born with average looks could pull decent tail on the regular.

A really good looking guy (i.e. someone who is 2 standard deviations above the mean) might have a 90% chance of pulling a girl based on looks alone. Remember, such a guy is in very high demand so he can probably lock up a hottie pretty early in the night.

A decent looking guy (above the 50th percentile but within 1 standard deviation from the mean) might have a significantly lower chance of pulling any given girl assuming other factors are roughly equal. But with enough approaches he should be able to pull a hottie.

I liken it to the intelligent student vs the diligent student. I'm sure we all knew that guy or girl that never really had to work hard but got straight As. Heck some of you may have been that guy. Then there are those students that pay attention in class, take good notes, study hard and go to the teachers' office hours. They too get straight As.

tl;dr Swallow your pride and just put in the work. Do approaches. Complete every approach. Make the ho say no. Keep doing that until you pull the kind of tail that you want.

 

[Fruitbat]

Well I am tall, but I think that having a hansome face trumps all. You can be 5'5 and tubby, but if you got good gentics going on in your face then you got far more than tall dudes like me who are a 5 in the face.

My best mate growing up was far skinnier than me, I have great body aesthetics but not great facial dynamics. he was shorter, about 5'7 and I am 6'1. He pulled far, far better chicks than me, he had the whole italian look going on, whereas I am far more of a standard anglo saxon. Dark hair, good jaw and bone structure puts you miles, freaking miles ahead of tall.

To answer Burroughs, I don't go out of my way to get under the skin of good looking dudes at bars. If I get the chance in a group discussion I will just take the piss as much as I can. In a work context I will be consious not to give the guy any respect at all. If I sense weakness, I will put that bimbo down

 

[Boilermaker]

A really good looking guy (i.e. someone who is 2 standard deviations above the mean) might have a 90% chance of pulling a girl based on looks alone. Remember, such a guy is in very high demand so he can probably lock up a hottie pretty early in the night.

Not really. A study says women need to spend 6 months getting to know a random guy to consider having sex with him, while it's only a week for a guy to consider sex with a strange woman. Exact numbers may vary, but the basic idea remains. That "looks" alone will get you nowhere with women, and I highly doubt anyone who doesn't have anything but looks going for him can "lock up a hottie" on 9 out of 10 attempts. That's just wrong in so many levels.

Of course, "game", "confidence" , "status" are huge factors, but still, there's a very basic obstacle for men to get immediate sex from strangers, [[women]]. An egg is more expensive than a sperm, in a nutshell. Because sperm comes 70 million strong per cm^3 of seminal fluid, whereas a single egg is the product of weeks of hard work and resources. That's why there's a stark difference in male/female behavior about how their seeds are invested during a potential sexual encounter.

You can take a look at the book:
Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters?
for some of the references I've made here.

Cheers,

 

[Boilermaker]

www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/bussandschmitt.pdf‎

This is the study I referred to. See Figure-3 in the article and the paragraph right above it.

+2000 citations.

Probably a serious one.

 

[backbreaker]

I consider myself to be above avg looking based on looking at myself in the mirror and the reaction i get from chicks and i will be the first to tell you that looks do matter. anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

with that said, it hink that it's really all mencing words, no one is saying that looks dont matter but some guys act like if they aren't just male models that they don't have a chance with women.


If you are having trouble getting laid and come tot he conclusion that looks matter, i would bet money that your expecations are too high. The problem isn't that you can't get laid the problem is that you can't get laid by the woman you desire to lay you.


Again, there are only 2 options. improve yourself or alter your expectations. that's it. No one is saying you have to put your **** into a manchild or anything but if you don't think you are an above avt looking guy why in the hell do you think you should be dating and gaming above avg looking women.

Well I am tall, but I think that having a hansome face trumps all. You can be 5'5 and tubby, but if you got good gentics going on in your face then you got far more than tall dudes like me who are a 5 in the face.

I agree with this. I'm only 5'8 and i've never, well not ever but hardly ever had a woman say anything about my height. my wife is right at 6'0 a shade under.


i will take my chances against the generic 6'2 guy any day of the week. though i don't know about chubby beucse when i was out of shape it effected my face my face was fat. now that my face is solid it's night and day

With all of these things considered, most guys who eat well and put in their time at the gym could easily be 7s when it comes to looks. That's before grooming, style, confidence, Game and money are factored in. You throw in the numbers game and a lot of guys born with average looks could pull decent tail on the regular.

this times infinity.

I look good because i work at it. when I am in shape, i have a handome face and a good build. but i've played sports my entire life and i work out everyday. when i don't play sports or work out and don't watch what i eat i look like a freaking marshmallow man lol i am one ugly bloated motherfcker when i am out of shape

unless you look like chris bosh or some **** just about every guy can be a solid 7-8. get in the gym and learn how to dress, and eat.


i have less sympathy for avg looking out of shape guys trying to get laid than i have for women who are 30 years old and CC'ed for the last 10 years. i really do because you can actually go and change your **** right now and you just refuse to.

 

[speed dawg]

Fruitbat sounds like you need your ass kicked. Badly. Very low quality male, you are.

Everyone, at some point in their lives, has to face the reality that there will be better men than him. And he will be better than some men. In all area, or some areas, or no areas. It doesn't matter. It's reality.

However, Fruitbat you are correct that most privileged people haven't had to work for much. Perhaps therein lies the great equalizer, if there was such a thing.