A complicated position, need some experienced advice...

[mikehelms]

I'll try to make this brief and I hope someone can give me some sound advice on what to do here because I genuinely like this chick, and I haven't genuinely liked someone in 5+ years (just flings and one night stands that didn't amount to much)

Okay, girl is in a band that I saw play at a bar about a year ago. Real talented, pretty decent looking. Immediately I'm interested but figure, eh, it aint going to happen. Turns out she is best friends with a girl I've known for years..... Therefore, I am introduced and we become somewhat of friends over the past year. nothing more, nothing less, just someone I see at her gigs and random house parties. She is 'unofficially' dating the guitarist of the band (she considers herself single but they do the whole ****ing and dating thing)

Fast forward to now. He breaks up with her because he feels its getting too 'relationshippy' and he doesn't want that because he doesn't want to ruin the band/friendship and bla bla bla. I hear through the grapevine that this girl is attracted to me or has been, but obviously didn't do anything about it because she was with guitarist dude. We start talking a little bit more and she says (mind you, just days after the breakup) that the reason we've never fooled around is because shes been with this guy, basically hinting that shes interested. Problem is, and I'm not an idiot, I know she was in love with this guy and is probably just vulnerable.

Anyhow. A few days later we end up at the bar, and then her friends house, where we fool around, no sex. It was fun. We do it again a few days later, also fun. She insists on keeping this somewhat of a secret for the time being, I assume because she doesnt want to look like a *****.

Anyway, the thing is, whenever guitar guy gets hammered hes all lovey dovey with her again. Not sure if they still sleep together but I'm a realist and probably.

So after this long ass story, how do I get her to start forgetting about guitar guy who has no interest in an 'official' relationship, but obviously still enjoys her company when he wants it, and move in for the kill. All while they play in a band together and see each other quite often still?

I never said this was going to be easy. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Right now I'm just playing the passive 'we're just friends, but when we're together and **** happens, it happens' so I haven't been a chump or anything around her. Is it possible or am I doomed to play second fiddle to this guy for as long as he wants? He's a nice guy by the way, a little eccentric and preppy but a cool guy.

Thanks.

 

[GuanYu]

If you want to hook up with her your main focus shouldn't be on the guy it should be on her. Just do things with her, but don't put a lot of your energy into it.

If she's in a band, then obviously she can't be wifey material. If you can't see that then not sure how to help otherwise.

Also, you should be more assertive. Next time you guys are alone over a house or something you need to try and screw her. If she is still fvckin this other guy there's not much you can do about it and unless she's a ho she may not even let you get that far. At that point you just need to move on.

For the record tho, never try to make your a woman "forget" about a guy. If she's truly interested it's something that will come naturally

 

[Mr. Me]

She insists on keeping this somewhat of a secret for the time being, I assume because she doesnt want to look like a *****.

No, it's because she doesn't want guitarist dude to find out about it. And that's the tip off right there.

So, to "get her to start forgetting about guitar guy", you can't. She's into him. But what you can do is try to get her to think MORE about YOU. And to do that, I'd say you have to back off from giving her what she wants from you some, so she has to come pursue you for it.

Meanwhile, guitar dude who has her interested enough that he doesn't commit to a relationship with her but still has her when he wants her... I know you don't want to hear this but, good for him!

Do you see that you DON'T have to be in a relationship to have this girl?

 

[horaholic]

The best course of action would be to avoid her and find a less complicated situation, but I'll assume you will probably dive into this despite any advice steering you away from it.

Lets analyze:

He breaks up with her because he feels its getting too 'relationshippy' and he doesn't want that because he doesn't want to ruin the band/friendship and bla bla bla.

This is bad. He's smart for doing that, but that doesnt make any feelings go away. On the bright side, it can mean that he doesnt really have feelings for her. On the down side, is the fact that he broke up with her. Chicks generally aren't smart enough to walk away form that. It usually gives her an ego slam, and she might try to get back with him, so she can dump him, and gain an ego boost. The fact that there is a band involved, means that they HAVE to be civilized about it. If either of them really have feelings, the band is doomed.

We start talking a little bit more and she says (mind you, just days after the breakup) that the reason we've never fooled around is because shes been with this guy, basically hinting that shes interested. Problem is, and I'm not an idiot, I know she was in love with this guy and is probably just vulnerable.

Depending on how serious they really were, you most likely just 'rebound guy.' If been in your situation several times; Freshly broken up girl, confesses having a crush on me for a long time. Says she wants more than a ONS. Have sex. Her: find another dude, and repeat. (old afc) Me: calling her, wondering what the deal is, for a week straight, before figuring it out. Whatever, I got laid out of the deal, I got over it quick. No regrets.

Be prepared for this!

She insists on keeping this somewhat of a secret for the time being, I assume because she doesnt want to look like a *****.

Or... Its because she is doing this to other guys as well, and would like it to continue for as long as possible. If guitar guy doesnt know you and her are messing around, he will be all over her when there are no other girls around. Cant blame him. If you and her continue this, guitar guy should be informed, as a courtesy, and also to know he needs to step off. It'll be easier on everyone in the long run.

So after this long ass story, how do I get her to start forgetting about guitar guy who has no interest in an 'official' relationship, but obviously still enjoys her company when he wants it, and move in for the kill. All while they play in a band together and see each other quite often still?

Ive seen situations like this work out. They never seem to work out for ME, but I've seen it. Lets assume you get past the 'rebound' hurdle. You need to be a better man than him. Best defense, good offense. Bang her like shes never been banged. If you see him start to move in, move in first. Try to find out if any girls have a crush on guitar guy, and play matchmaker. You have one phrase for ammunition here: "Think of the band"

Also, post your age in your proflie, or the mods will close this thread.

Oh, and the next time her band plays, be sure to be talking to other women in her view. Jealousy plotlines are good stuff.

 

[mikehelms]

Age should be up now.

Great advice so far. I can provide a few more tidbits of information..

After the first night we fooled around, next day she was weird and a little standoffish. ****, second thoughts. She tells me that she feels guilty even though shes not with guitar guy and it feels weird since hes the only guy shes messed around with for the past year so 'it felt like cheating but it obviously wasnt'

At this point I figure I'm dead in the water, so I just play it off and say 'hey, do whatever you gotta do, no big deal, just figure out what you gotta figure out" trying to convey that I don't give a ****. Bad move? Dunno.

Anyway, after saying this, the very next night she convinces me to go out to get a few drinks. Last call comes around, I give her a hug(she was with a few female friends) and tell her I'll see her later and take off. About 5 minutes later she calls me and invites me over. I get to her house and we fool around some more, but I legitimately have to get up early next day so I tell her I gotta go and take off without ****ing her. I immediately regretted that decision when I got home, but such is life.

She calls me the next day fairly early and we chit chat about something stupid or other and I cut the convo off and tell her I gotta get ready for work.

Two nights later we end up at the same house party and much like the first time, end up sleeping in the same bed and fooling around. Banging not an option because of other people in the room. I say how long is this going to be a secret by the way, and she says for awhile.

I know I made a lot of AFC mistakes along the way, but it's clear that shes into me and I'm 90% sure I can **** her next time I have her alone. So is the next step to just avoid her for awhile, a week or so and stop any texts/calls? Assuming I'm not completely dead in the water, I'd like to bang the crap out of her and eventually create something long term. Appreciate the help and wish I didn't sound so chumpy, but it's been awhile since I gave a fvck about a chick.

 

[GuanYu]

Now that you explained more about the situation, it seems like she's only using you for social proof/ego boost or trying to make the guitar guy jealous in hopes her extracurricular activities get back to him.

It clearly can't be much of a secret if other people see you all together, but the fact that you let her call the shots makes you a wuss in her eyes. It's like she's running the show and that's unattractive to her.

She knows how you feel, but you've had like three opportunities to capitalize and haven't which also makes you a wuss in her eyes. Now I'm not dissing you just trying to make you see it from her perspective. I don't even know the chick but can already tell she's into men that can take charge (aren't most women?)

If I were you, in a position where there's nothing to lose, try to get her 1-on-1 and make your true intentions known. You must try to lay her whether or not you get rejected or not. If you don't try then it's all for nothing. She has to know you want to have sex if anything is going to escalate. Otherwise she'll keep using you as a showcase and nothing more.

 

[mikehelms]

The help is appreciated guys, I would like to hear more opinions/ideas.

So basically, next time I get her one on one I need to nail her. I don't foresee that as a problem.

The thing is, I hung out with her basically 4 days straight, and I know that can't be good. So would you recommend no contact for a few days or what before I get back to her place to finish the deed? And then after the fact, should I just ease off to a few days of contact a week or what?

I just don't want to be seen as too available, but if that's a mistake then say so.

And yeah, I guess it does make me a wuss, but if I went around letting people know I was doing stuff with her I felt that would just stop **** from happening altogether because she couldn't trust me

 

[GuanYu]

If it's been 4 days straight you'll definitely want to take a little break. That shouldn't happen with any woman you're not in an exclusive relationship with. Even then it's a problem if you're not married.

Is she the one initiating all of the contact? If not, you may want to let her chase a bit. I know it may seem hard, but you can't make yourself too available. Back off and let her miss you. If she has genuine interest the next time she contacts you, set something up to get her isolated.

Oh and when I say your behavior is wussy it's not about letting the world know. It's because you're not being assertive enough and not calling the shots. You don't have to let the world know how you feel about her, just let her know your true intentions by actions. Words are meaningless now, take action.

 

[mikehelms]

Agreed. The contact has been pretty much 50/50. A few back and forth texts here and there with both of us initiating. I suppose if she texts me today or tomorrow I'll just ignore it and get back to her later on.

Even if I do **** her, which I plan on doing, I want to turn this into something more. I assume by being unavailable after i **** her really good a few times that's probably a step in the right direction, but I also don't want to come off as a complete prick.

It's fvcked up, because if I just wanted to bang this chick I'd have absolutely zero problem, but since I haven't pursued an LTR with anyone in years I basically forgot how to do it. Maybe if I treat her like the girls that I just want to bang it would work better and she'd keep chasing me, rather than talking with her everyday? Unfortunately she has a lot of pride I think and doesn't like to show vulnerability, with her 'rock star' status, so it's hard to get a read on her...

So I guess what i'm saying is, how do you go from rebound to LTR, I assume it's possible but difficult, but there's a way around anything.

 

[GuanYu]

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but she just doesn't seem to be LTR material. She's already intentionally let you know she has feelings for some other guy, she's in a rock band (lots of parties and possibly late nights out) and doesn't seem to much in a hurry to get something started with you. Of course I'm just going by what you've posted about her. You know her better than us.

Maybe just live for the moment, enjoy each others company and see where it goes.

Oh yeah and most importantly, I'd suggest you get out there and get more women (spin more plates). There's a great deal of uncertainty with this one woman so having back ups and just others to get involved with is a plus for you.

 

[Unprez]

I know I made a lot of AFC mistakes along the way, but it's clear that shes into me and I'm 90% sure I can **** her next time I have her alone. So is the next step to just avoid her for awhile, a week or so and stop any texts/calls? Assuming I'm not completely dead in the water, I'd like to bang the crap out of her and eventually create something long term. Appreciate the help and wish I didn't sound so chumpy, but it's been awhile since I gave a fvck about a chick.

First bang her and then see how much u like her...u'd be surprised how u feel once u complete the challege

 

[Jitterbug]

Triangle. Red flag.

If you somehow manage to get into a relationship with this chick (seeing that you like her more than just a fling), are you OK with the fact that she hangs out regularly with some dude who's been her lovey dovey F-buddy for yonks? Besides, I think she's just using you to make him proclaim his undying love for her anyway.

 

[mikehelms]

Well, like I said, she was in a relationship with this guy for about a year, but considered herself single because he refused to commit officially. in other words, he wouldn't claim her. that will obviously make it much more difficult for me since he's the one that wouldn't be with her 'officially'. so she wanted the LTR, not him though.

 

[Jitterbug]

It's fvcked up, because if I just wanted to bang this chick I'd have absolutely zero problem, but since I haven't pursued an LTR with anyone in years I basically forgot how to do it.

I think what you've forgotten is how to spot a girl that has qualities suitable for a LTR. How you pursue such a girl is not much different to how you'd pursue one just for casual dating - it's just that you screen her much more carefully and watch out for red flags (still being in a band with a f-buddy that she's dying to tie down is a huge one).

Stop trying to find a way to make her your girlfriend. Find out first if she'd qualify for the position! It's like trying to find a suitable employee for a position in your company. Right now you're going about it the arse up way.

Write down a list of things that make this girl qualified as a LTR for you.

Then write down another list of things about her you will not put up with if you're in a LTR.

After that, you'll be in a better position to see if this honey bunny deserves to be in your life.

 

[mikehelms]

Great advice thus far. Thank you.

The band thing is pretty tough, you're right, considering they have to practice once a week plus usually 3 shows a month, so whenever he decides 'hey, im horny' he can just pull out the sweet talk snap her back up for the night. thats rough for me. i just need to fvck her so rotten that she'll forget who this guy is.

 

[mikehelms]

The one thing that has me confused is the conflicting advice I'm getting about being aloof or being 'manly' and sexual.

I was told by some it was right to play the aloof guy that pretends nothing she does matters or bothers me, and just play it off like we're friends around other people. Basically, not hanging over her and not paying all that much attention to her until we're along

Then I hear I need to be sexual and assertive, etc. Could someone clarify this, apologies for the ignorance.

 

[Mr. Me]

Hang back vs escalate:

To try and get her interest in you higher, hanging back would be the way. Make her come to you. But until this other guy is out of her mind, she's not going to be 100% yours. And that's IF you became the next guy. She may end up with someone else for all you know. You can still give off a sexual vibe around her.

If all you want to do is nail her now, then you just may want to physically escalate things. But keep it as FB, because she's still involved with the other guy, and you being third in a triangle puts you in the traditional worst position.

 

[mikehelms]

What effect would banging her and then hanging back have?

 

[Interceptor]

Mike, I think you need to define exactly WHAT it is you want from her.

Since apparently you dont know what you want, or youre not being honest, you cant hone in the right advice for you.

You also need a little more confidence and self assuredness , and self esteem here.

She's setting the terms, and youre following around like a little lap dog to a degree here.


This woman does not appear to be prime LTR material, IMO.

And you have had several 'Failures to Deploy' too.


While I dont think you should over analyze this, I do think you do need to use this situation to learn more about yourself and what you want, AND.......
focus on your Mission a little more, so you dont get wrapped up into this kind of drama.
Life is short. youve only got so many hours during the day.
Make sure you know youre priorities and dont get caught up in less meaningful pursuits...

 

[Jeffst1980]

The thing that you're missing here is that LTR's have more to do with timing, rather than compatibility or even attraction. You caught this girl at an extremely bad time. The fact that the guitarist rejected her and now continues to send her mixed signals is driving her interest level crazy--for him. It is not possible for her to have high interest in BOTH of you, as women simply don't work that way.

This is why we advise against being the rebound guy. Acting aloof might help prolong things between the two of you for a bit, but as long as she has high interest in him, she's off the market, whether or not she's technically "single." A "single" woman with high interest in another guy is effectively taken, just as a woman with low interest in her boyfriend is effectively single.

Your best bet is to let this one go before you get more attached. If you become the rebound guy, she'll think of you of the guy that just couldn't "do it" for her and you probably won't get another shot in the future when the timing is more amenable. Rest assured that, if she does get back together with the guitarist, it won't last, and if he continues to reject her she will eventually lose interest in him over time. That would be the ideal time to get her all hot and bothered.

Above all, don't take it personally if things don't work out, because this has absolutely nothing to do with you. If you caught this girl at a better time, I'm sure that the outcome would be very different. A big part of being successful with women is learning to avoid being put in situations where you have little control.