A Better Understanding of Women - The Saga Continues

[Francisco d'Anconia]

How about the 8th time around?

It may take that many turns, but you should be increasing your ability to cut through the BS each time around. Personally, being able to quickly decide whether a woman is worth your attention or not cuts down on the possibility of you getting angry and bitter at the process. Actually, being able to qualify women well will allow you to come out on top because you are rejecting more of the wrong ones.

 

[md3sign]

nmm

 

[muscleman]

Soo no one cares to comment on the long ass post I spent half a day pondering? Come on fellas, help me out.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Soo no one cares to comment on the long ass post I spent half a day pondering? Come on fellas, help me out.

Interesting post. Lots of content, tons of background information about this woman, her actions, her family, her friends... Obviously creates an interesting situation for you I'm sure...

In all of this there's one thing that's still a question that would be of interest to me. Forget about all that has happened. Forget about the fights, the drunken allocutions, the parents, the friends, the great sex, her nice homemaker traits and those things about her that makes you go off the deep end.... Hell.... Forget about her.... Go back to before the two of you met... At a time before even knew that she existed.... What did you want in your life, in a relationship (any type of relationship). Be very specific.

 

[BlackJackal]

BlackJackal I kinda know what you're saying. I just keep feeling something isn't right. You know that sick feeling you get in your stomach? Well I have that.

I have a problem though. I have an addictive personality which has been a blessing and a curse. A blessing when put to something good (like weightlifting, learning new things, etc) and a curse otherwise (video game addiction, getting way too involved with girls). It's something I'm working on, but if I hang around a girl for a while, even if it's just 2-3 months 1-2x/week, I get attached. It seems like it doesn't even matter if things are great or they suck .. I get attached anyway given enough time.

I understand it can be a gift and a curse. It's like being in the zone when you really get into something/someone. But thats all a matter of self control, and checking yourself before you get reckless.You can have feelings it's only natural, but you have to be in control.

And with this girl I'm not 100% like you said. I can't even think logically. One second I'm fully content thinking she really does miss me like she says and she really is doing all those things for me to please me and show me that she wants to be with me rather than covering up deeper issues. The other second I'm thinking about all the red flags and all the less-than-ideal parts that make her up. I seriously think about staying with her long term one moment and dumping her on the spot the next. Does anyone else ever go through this?

As good as she can be to you, she can be just as bad. That goes for anybody. No one is strictly one way or the other, it's all a matter of degree. She is who she is, but truth be told, she's not the problem. It actually you. Starting with the fact that you really don't want commitment, but like to think you do. Second you're dealing with a girl that you know you shouldn' deal with.
And yet continue to do so.

On a side note, here are a few things I thought I should mention. Maybe they'll help the more experienced members here give me some better insight:

-why did she tell me about her messed up childhood? she was sexually abused at a young age. she also said after the whole emotional conversation that "I don't want pity from anyone" as if I'd pity her for it (given the details, you might actually)

She told you because you were willing to listen.

 

[BlackJackal]

-when I was telling her about the whole flirting with other guys thing being belittleling, she was acting all understanding like "yea you're right, you have every reason to be mad, it's something I need to work on and I was drunk and didn't even know I was doing it" umm...

-that whole conversation felt like a disarmament now that I think about it: basically her telling me that when something bothers me I should be more tactful about bringing it up and I should bring it up in the first place. part of me thinks she's right - I probably shouldn't just stay silent and flip out (when we came back that night she was so drunk we passed out, so no sex for me, and I pretty much got up to leave without a word the next morning but she woke up all startled and we talked/I ended up staying)

Like I said, she's pretty good at flippin the script on you. You shouldn't have to be tactful about telling her that. She knows better than that. Didn't you say before that you did the same thing to her out of spite and she got mad? Well then she knows that doing that can piss her man off. You agreeing with her is just false guilt she managed to get out of you.
If she knows that you tend to flip when she does that, then why keep inviting the situation?

-also during the conversation some things she said just made me feel like she wasn't very serious about us to begin with even though she said "I feel like I'm more serious about this than you". comments such as "I understand what you mean about giving up the single life and being exclusive being hard. but (and in a nonchalant tone) it's a choice you made. but if you don't want to be exclusive you need to let me know". <-- is that something a girl who was serious would even say? I mean damn, if I said that to one of my previous gf's she would straight up flip out if she knew I was even thinking about going back to being casual. During that entire conversation I felt like she really didn't even care that much. As if losing me was "ok" by her. Hell, maybe it is. But is that how an interested girl would really act?

Yes and no. It's a basic altumatim(sp) question. But then like anything thats said, it still depends on delivery. Are you surprise that this sounds like she not afraid of loosing you? If she was she wouldn't do any of the things that you HAVE to address her about.And like she said she figure after the first time you guys ****ed, she didn't expect you to call again anyway. I believe that she even thinks you're crazy for even dealing with her.

And here's the KICKER. When we first started dating, she (as I now know) thought I was an "as5hole" who only wanted to get some. Yet she went along with it and gave it up the first night we hung out. It was apparently my "meathead *******ness"/alphaness? that got into her pants and started this whole thing. And if she gave it up to me despite thinking I just wanted a lay (which at the time I did), what would keep her from doing the same with someone else? She even told me later she didn't think I was going to call her back and that I didn't turn out to be the person she thought at all. Maybe she's right. Maybe I am still too nice on the inside. Still a big chunk of AFC left once I get serious.

Read what you typed. This type of stuff is basically routine to her anyway.

EDIT: also I just realized something that may have been an oversight. When we first decided exclusivity (on the pretense that a guy she's known for a while really wanted to have sex with her that night but she turned him down .. at least that's what she told me) it was pretty much her saying this: "are we dating other people? cause I don't want to feel like a retard and turn people down if you're seeing other girls". but then she did say "cause honestly I don't want to see anyone else" hmm

And here's another thing that bothers me. Initially I left it out, but I guess it needs to be said. This past weekend I helped her move a couple pieces of furniture. They had to go to her parents' house for logistical reasons. On the way there, she tells me and her best friend/future roommate that they will introduce me as simply "X", not her boyfriend or anything. The explanation was that since her parents are Jahova's witnesses and her mom "has a dream of her marrying another witness" it would "break their heart" and could possibly prevent them from talking to her again. Now ... part of me sympathizes, if it was really that bad. But on the other had, what the FVCK?!?! If you were really serious about someone, or even half way serious, why on earth wouldn't you show them off to your parents/be PROUD of them?!? Even her friend got kinda silent on the phone when she heard this, and kinda looked at me with "wtf eyes" when we were there. Yea I know we've only been dating a while and this is "serious", but she's the one who told me "I feel like I'm taking this relatioship more seriously than you". Yea ok

.

Yeeeah, I'm not buyin it. I doubt it would be that serious where she'll be shunned out of the family. If thats the case, why bring you at all.

Fortunately/unfortunately the sex is pretty much the best I've had, which also complicates things. But even that has some interesting nuances. When we were discussing fantasies one day, she mentioned wanting to have a threesome with me and her best friend. Except, her best friend is engaged. Of course the other dude wants to have a threesome too, with his fiancee and my gf. And the thing is, my gf agreed to having a threesome with them if she/I could have a threesome with his girl. First time I heard that detail I was like hmmmm. So she gets two threesomes eh? None of this is actually happening because he doesn't want to share his fiancee with me and keep it fair and I understand, but the part that bugs me is that she was down for doing it with me AND him. What have I gotten myself into...

Wow she's a real freak...lol. Sounds like a fun deal to get her and her girl. Me personally, I would take the offer seeing as I believe in making the best out of anything before the bull**** happens(invetibally) and the oppurtunity is gone. Especially when I dont see anything good on the horizon for the both of you anyway. But thats just me.

Have I really lost the DJ edge with this girl? Is she even serious? How do you test this? I mean, after everything I've learned sometimes I feel I've become completely lost. Hell, sometimes I don't even feel alpha. I think of alpha role models, like leaders/kings/contemporary figures like James Bond and I can't ever imagine any of them only settling with 1 girl. As for my plan, it remains the same. I'll work on my own stuff the next few days and when we go up this weekend I'll see how things go and make a decision.

Here's the part that sounds kinda fvcked up and I realize it: I want to date her, but casually. I want to see other girls. She's fun, but there seem to be a lot of red flags as far as monogomous long term relationship goes. This may be a possibility. If I brought it up, I wouldn't be surprised if she'd be down for it. But here's the messed up part. I don't want her having sex with other guys, even though I'm ok having sex with other girls. Wicked huh?

Someone help me out with some wise words, for the love of God. I'm going lightweight crazy. I also wrote this as it came to mind, so if it doesn't make much [sequential] sense, my bad.

Basically stop taking words (especially her words) seriously. You to tend rely on the message instead of the actions.

Second, the only person making you crazy is YOU. You dont have to go through any of this crap. Treat her casually if thats what you want. After everything you know you're considering long term commitment? It just sounds like wishful thinking, and seeing what you want to see. And that even when the signs are directly in you face. I'm tellin you man, let it burn.

As far as getting this girl with you and another braud and not wanting her to fvck another man. Forget about it..lol. You cant put a leash on a girl like this I fvcked girls like her. Spit the right game and it's over. You should know.

This situation reminds me of the song Easy Lover by Phil Collins.

 

[muscleman]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've done some thinking and decided I want to take things back down to casual. You're right - it is wishful thinking. This girl is in another city for a job thing and is "bored with nothing to do for 4 days" yet I only get 1 phone call. I used to get a text every hour at first. You're right, she's a freak, she's fun as hell to be around, but logically she's just not in it for long term. And on top of all that I have 5 girls willing to do me RIGHT NOW. Hell, I turned down 3 of em on cinco de mayo just to "work things out" with her. Silly me.


So anyway, the next step is one I'm unsure of how to do. I don't want to be exclusive with her anymore. I want to take things back down to being light. I still want to hang out with her/fvck her, but I think I'd be ok if I lost her in the process.

I can approach this in one of two ways:

1) Tell her straight up she's fun, I enjoy her company, but I'm not ready for anything serious, though I would like to continue seeing her.

2) Not tell her and just do what I want anyway.

Now let's put morals aside for a second and consider things like reputation, what DJ would do, etc. I've never cheated on a gf before, though a couple have cheated on me. I wouldn't feel too guilty about it, but is it a pvssy thing to do? After all it could get out (we all hang out at a lot of the same places) and that would really start some sh!t. I know few would admit to doing something similar, but I know at least some of the guys here have cheated on their gfs, and girls steal guys from other girls all the time.

I'm not trying to do the most noble thing, just trying to do what will work out best for me. So .. be up front about it or no?

Oh and the threesome thing .. yea I wish it would work but I don't think it's gonna happen. The other girl/guy just won't go through with it.



While we're on the topic of sex though, to be perfectly honest that's the biggest thing holding me back. It's hot as hell. I'd like to think all girls are like that if you take charge, but so far my experience has taught me otherwise. Maybe I just haven't taken charge until now.

 

[BlackJackal]

Smart man. If she's in another city, and she being the type of girl she is, it would be safe to assume that someone else is pimpin her.

As far as breaking up. Theres nothin much to break. Just tell her like it is. If she agrees to let you fvck casually now and then cool. If not cool. You got nothing to lose. It's your life and dont you forget it. You can do whatever you want.

To bad about the 3 some thing. Maybe she can find a more willing girl.

Either way do you and keep movin. You dont owe her nothin.

 

[Interceptor]

I'd go with Option 1. But modified.
I am not so sure that being "straight up" is that beneficial here.
I feel like it may be a mystery killer.
So you need to try to get this done through hints.
You may have to turn up the sexuality in your dialogue.
And you may have to carefully screen activities that are normally reserved for exclusive couples in monogamous relationships and that are in love, which you are obviously not. In other words, do stuff that is fun for you, but not things like go to a best friend's wedding, or meet her parents, or shoppinh for mutual item, birthdays, Valentine's day, etc.
Basically, turn up the sexual heat a little, and use dialogue that projects your perceptions of her and the relationship.
I would definitely use the line "You're fun to be around", and maybe segue into something sexual.
Rememebr, a REAL boyfriend in Love respects his woman, and her wishes (Everything to the appropriate degree, always. We punish bad behavior, and reward good behavior. We find out her trutworthines, and act accordingly to her trustworthiness, NOT our ego or programming.). He complies, and defers, and satisfies her much more so than just any other woman. He does this because she Qualified, and deserve good treatment.
You don't feel this way for her, but you still want that P***y.
You need to subtley let her know you're only into her for the sex. Period.

Good luck.

 

[muscleman]

Well I kind of have been. But then I kinda fvcked it up. That morning after she got really drunk, I spit some stuff about her being too drunk to even have sex among other things. She immediately picked up on that like "well that's just it isn't it, you only want sex". It came up again. Basically she said she's looking for more, whatever, I don't give a sh!t, but I did tell her at the time (this was a few days ago) yea I know and I want to give it a shot blah blah. Basically bs that's just not there. I have no problem letting her know subtly it's mainly sexual (she says she misses me, I never say it back, I never tell her I like her just that she's fun to be around and I like hanging out with her, every time we've hung out we've had sex - I just won't go out with a girl I'm dating anymore without hittin it at some point).

However, that still leaves all the other girls. Do I just go ahead and do my thing?

 

[BlackJackal]

yeah.

 

[Last Man Standing]

It'll take me an hour to go through all the red flags that are obvious!!!!!

Simply put - Do not get emotional with this, this, this chick!!!!

 

[blueguy]

Never become exclusive with a hor!!!! Exclusivity only belongs to virgins!!!

lol. good luck with that one.