A Better Understanding of Women - The Saga Continues

muscleman

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Every day I'm finding out that things really aren't what we grew up believing them to be. Well, not most of us. I joined the DJ community (if such an "initiation" exists) almost a year ago and have learned a great deal since then. I've dated around and slept with several women - some by accident, others intentionally. Anyway, I'd like to share a story that's happened/is happening to me for the past few months.

Way back in late January I was dating several girls. Then I made the mistake of dumping my plates in favor of 1. I feel like it was her choice. We've been seeing each other for a couple months and one night me, her, and a bunch of her friends were out at a bar. I had to leave early because I was still sick at the time and all the smoke made me feel like I was about to die, but I told her to come over later to spend the night when she was finished. She did, but in her drunken state she ended up questioning whether we were going to be exclusive because "she's been asked on several dates" and this one friend of her's who was at the bar was "ready to go". Anyway, I said ok. And I followed through - I broke it off with 2 other girls I was seeing.

But it's almost like the second you become exclusive, that's when the girl has "won you over" and she basically has more slack to do whatever. I look back on the past couple months since that night and I'm noticing how it's slowly, slyly, creeping in. First it was less text messages, less "I miss yous", less "when am I gonna get to see yous". Then it was a slight drop in excitement when I was there - as if it's the gf/bf routine. I cant' stand it. I've written off serious relationships for that very reason. Just the other night we were both drunk, which usually leads to some phenomenal sex. Not this time. She straight up passes out. And that entire night she was in a bad mood. The first time ever, at least around me and to that degree. That **** is contagious. I made a point of it in the morning and just about left when she woke up, confused as hell, we ended up talking about it and then some makeup sex/her buying me breakfast. That was our first fight.

She used to complain and whine about "having no power, no control, and being vulnerable". No complaints now! But wait, it gets better. We're at the bar, and she is straight up flirting with other guys, then comes up to me like "don't worry I'm going home with you tonight". That's still BS. And this wasn't the first time. I do my share of interjecting and getting her back in my frame, but she's enjoying it. And I won't lie - I do get a little jealous. I'm almost 100% certain it's because I'm NOT spinning other plates, though I could very well be.

...

I guess what I'm getting at is that even in relationships the game doesn't change. Ever. First she was fighting for my attention, now I feel like I'm competing for hers. And even in relationships, even when she's drunk yet knows I'm right there, she'll shamelessly flirt with other guys. I've gone and flirted with girls and it would get her worked up, but this wasn't always so. I gotta get my balls back.

So, fellow DJs, I'm back, though I'm not sure what to do. Overall I'm getting the impression that you shouldn't take women too seriously, or even somewhat seriously. Just do what you want and let them figure things out on their own. I guess I'm a little disappointed. I keep hoping there'll be something deeper, but it all comes down to a game and a boring routine followed by breakup once you slack off.

I've gone through a lot the past few months and I'm getting my life back in order (hittin the gym hard again, doing a lot of self help stuff, etc), but I'm not sure how to proceed here. I still want to see her. And I made a promise. But doing so seems to put the ball back in her court, and a girl holding out on sex for whatever reason is total bs. I won't have it. Because of this I've also grown more attached to her, and it's definitely gone beyonad the purely casual stage. So what do you think? What now? Start spinnin those plates again?
 

NSUballer

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Yea I been there before. Not too long ago actually. If she really wanted to be with you that bad she wouldnt play those stupid games. On the other hand she doesnt want you to be so predictable she knows what youre going to say or do before you do it. Seems like shes becoming distant and that leads to break ups. How long have you been "exclusive" and how old are you?
 

muscleman

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Dating since late Jan/early Feb, exclusive for about 1.5 months. I'm 23.

Other red flags (or not?): the other day she was talking about how 1) it's the first "serious relationship" she's been in in 3-4 years and 2) she "always sabotages" them. Hmm. Also, she's a bit of a party girl (has a tat, out at bars pretty much every weekend).

EDIT: another interesting thing. We had a conversation about when we first met, and how I turned out to be a lot different from my first impression (she thought I was a meathead/******* just out for some ass, which I got the first night we hung out), but that's not how I turned out to be. Oops. Guess I slacked off eh? After all it was the "meatheadness" that got me laid the first night ...
 

NSUballer

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Hmmmm so about 3 months. This is not long enough at all to be considered serious. At least 6 months before anything can get really serious. If she said she always sabotages relationships then she probably will again or she wants you to show her more love. As far as being a party girl that doesnt mean a whole lot. Im sure she likes to get get smashed. For most girls, going out to a club or bar gives them a chance to get dressed up and do something with friends/boyfriend rather than sit at home. how old is she?
 

NSUballer

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Sounds to me like you want something more than just another GF. Which is fine. And she must also or she would be gone by now. How compatible are you with her? Do you get along most of the time or argue most of the time?
 

NSUballer

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Remember this if you take anything frome here: YOU CANT TREAT THEM ALL THE SAME.

I say that because it doesnt matter how many times youve been hurt shes not any of those people. Until she proves she is.

And what I meant by get along is do you have fun together? Are you always laughing together and just making each other feel awesome when youre together?

Life is all about what you want. So what do you want from this relationship anyways?
 

muscleman

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I understand that, but it's also hard to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, especially when any part of them fits a previously established stereotype.

Yes, we have fun together. And I don't treat her the same - after all I did give up the other girls and chose her. Yes we get along. But I've dated a lot of girls that I could get along with, have great sex with, have fun with, etc. To me that's no longer the deciding factor on whether to keep one or not.

However, there are a couple twists to this:

1) Call me superficial, but I've dated hotter girls. She's hot, dont get me wrong, and the sex is fantastic, but given that I'm so into fitness myself I can't help but expect that from the girl.

2) If things turn out as planned, after I graduate here in a couple months I'll be moving to the other side of the country. Which is one reason I didn't want to get into anything serious, because it will inevitably lead to breakups. And I'm not gonna be like "hey, drop all your **** and come move with me". Been there, done that, no "marriage life" for me for many years, no thanks.
 

NSUballer

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Do you know who youre going to marry by any chance? Of course you dont but you indicated you do want to eventually.

Yea I understand where youre coming from with the fitness aspect. And hotter doesnt mean better person as im sure you know.

So what is it about her that made you drop the other two and be with her?
 

muscleman

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Thing is, it wasn't a simple decision. I can't say "because of her personality", because other factors played in.

One other girl I was seeing just didn't seem as interested, so that made me cross her off.

The other girl was logistically harder to date (longer drives, some other nuances I won't get into).

So in a way it was process of elimination. They were all about the same on teh hotness scale.

I'm just wary of diving into a serious relationship again. I have an addictive personality which is a double-edged sword that I've used for good (hardcore fitness lifestyle, soaking up as much knowledge as possible, running my own business) and bad (obsession with video games, getting too attached to girls I was dating and going way afc). I'm trying to be cautious. I don't want to end things, and certainly not for good. There are a couple girls in my past I can think of that I wouldn't mind going for round 2 with someday. I'm just not ready to settle down, and I think a lot of girls my age are getting there - after all a bunch of her friends are either married, engaged, have kids, or are getting close to one of those.



EDIT:

In the end, this whole thing is about getting the power back, and I feel (perhaps wrongly) the only way I can do that is to spin those other plates and feel better about myself and get a little detached. To be perfectly honest the most enjoyable time was when we were dating and I was spinning other plates. I didn't know if she was and I didn't really care. I probably did enjoy my time with her the most, and the sexual variety (one of the girls was pretty much just a booty call) just kept me on edge and in power - I just felt it like "well I could have all these other girls so you better prove to me you're the best choice".
 

Remulak

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Yea if anyone knows the answer to the abstruse question of how to prevent being taken for granted in a long-term relationship I'd love to here it.
 

danielzxc

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Yea if anyone knows the answer to the abstruse question of how to prevent being taken for granted in a long-term relationship I'd love to here it.

You could start by choosing a higher quality person than someone that sleeps with a guy on the first night, has a tat, drinks all the time, flirts with other guys, and lowers the amount of atttention she pays you the very minute you declare exclusivity.
 

muscleman

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Well, the whole sleeping together on the first night .. she's not the first girl that's happened with. A lot have done it, of all levels of quality, and usually without alcohol. I don't think that has anything to do with the quality of a person. In my experience all passionate relationships start passionately.
 

Prof

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Honestly, her hitting on other guys is something to pay attention to. You definitely do NOT want to be in a relationship with a girl who thinks belittling you like that is "okay". (My step-dad was in a marriage where his wife did that to him for years on end. He wound up with 2 really ****ed up children, over 100k in debt, and seeing a psyciatrist. Not to mention she drove him from his family, hobbies, friends, and so many other things.)

So, yeah, you've got to get those pants back on you.

My general rule of thumb (good or not) is to back off when they back off. If she's hot on you, then be hot on her. If she's cold on you, then be hot on another girl or aspect of your life. Though, I'm no expert. My best friend says the best thing to do is just try and have fun, especially if you're in a "commital" relationship. I think, in this case, what that means is to take her out to do some fun stuff, preferably outside of the bar. (My god, does anyone actually like going to those smoke-infested ****-holes? I know I go to socialize, but that's tops once a month.) Take her to a stand-up comedic, or out karting, or any another thing that'll get your hearts-pumping and NOT thinking about all the negative 'things.'

I don't know, I can't say I'm an expert, but I do think you need to take this girl less seriously. The more romantic/clingy you get with her the more emotional investment you're making in something that might very well jump boat on you. It's an easy oversight to make (I'm sorta making it with this one girl right now), but one you should definitely watch out for.

Hmm...maybe just try leeding her around to things you want to do? You know, be alpha and you will take on that role, perhaps?
 

wayword

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Congrats - U R Dating An Aw!!!

muscleman said:
We're at the bar, and she is straight up flirting with other guys, then comes up to me like "don't worry I'm going home with you tonight".

First she was fighting for my attention, now I feel like I'm competing for hers. And even in relationships, even when she's drunk yet knows I'm right there, she'll shamelessly flirt with other guys.
How many of these are true:

1) She is young - 21ish
2) She had a poor or no relationship with her father
3) She seeks constant validation from men now that she didn't get from daddy
4) She's an AW addicted to male validation
5) She already got validation from you, so needs it from more other guys now
6) She'll probably cheat on you because of this
 

Remulak

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I'm not really sure of the answer to the question but when you're young, don't even bother investing too much into a relationship. When my girlfriend is getting on my nerves and she's trying to suck me into some drama, I say to myself 'fyck it' and I think of my future and what I can do to improve myself. Screw them all, always put yourself first because that's all you have. You can look back and laugh and all the bytches who gave you shyt when you're the man in a few years.
 

muscleman

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wayword said:
How many of these are true:

1) She is young - 21ish
2) She had a poor or no relationship with her father
3) She seeks constant validation from men now that she didn't get from daddy
4) She's an AW addicted to male validation
5) She already got validation from you, so needs it from more other guys now
6) She'll probably cheat on you because of this
Not sure which ones are true. She's 24 - a few months older than me. You may be right though, as a lot of stuff comes out when you're drunk. For instance, for her birthday we went out to a bar where a band was playing that night. It got pretty packed, I go to the bathroom, come back and apparently she was up on stage dancing with the band. Later that night a bunch of people (girls) got up there, and she did too. Then she puts up pictures of that on the net. Then she went to talk to a group of dudes and her best friend came up to me like "are you gonna let your gf talk to all those guys like that?" Sound AW to you?

I'm really trying to approach this objectively.

Also, we just had a quick phone convo, including plans to go out this Friday, and a couple interesting things were said.

Such as: she's moving some furniture Saturday morning and since she assumed I would stay the night (I usually do), she assumed I would help her move it. I made a joke of it like "oh really what makes you think I'm gonna stay the night", to which she kinda laughs and replies "well I just thought you would, you usually do, but I know plenty of guys who could help me". Umm ...

I also think the point of that entire phone call (a lot of which revolved around her buying this new furniture) was basically seeing if I would help her move her sh!t.

I'd like some outside opinions on this. Already got a few other prospects ready to go if I decide to back off a bit.
 

ryannath

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Don't bring a girl to the club when you just met her unless your game is tight. You must not have heard the new R. Kelly song "I'm a flirt" huh? lol..listen to it and you will know what I am talking about.
 

danielzxc

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Don't bring a girl to the club when you just met her unless your game is tight.
This sounds like the kind of girl who would WANT to go to the club/bar/whatever. I think if he suggested something else instead, she'd probably just go by herself. She might try it once or twice, but I bet you she'd starting miss the club scene and either drag you along to it or just go on her own (with her friends, I mean).

I mean, seriously, to have a chick that FLIRTS with other guys IN YOUR PRESENCE. Sounds Come on man, that's not even CLOSE to relationship quality. I mean, it's just a pure deal-breaker.

Even if you "trust" her that's it's "only" flirting, like even if you're confident in yourself that none of those other guys have anything to offer her over you, even then, it's still no good cos she simply should not be doing that, because for any guy to have that happening to him is socially belittling. You know, even if YOU feel what she doe is "okay", the thing is, everyone else that sees it is gonna think you're some kind of wuss or fag. Seriously. There's just no way you should be putting up with this. Man, you have seriously seriously handed over all the power in the relationship to her if she's pulling stuff like this on you. It's nuts. (It might even get you into a few fights, too, like if some guy gets the picture that she really wants him, and that she doesn't care at all about you, the guy might decide that he's having her that night, and tell you to go **** yourself. Normally, that leads to a fight.)

This guy is soo gonna get burnt by this chick if he stays with her. Especially if the 'power balance' doesn't change. Sometimes the writing is so clearly on the wall you just need to open your eyes and read it. This is one of those cases.
 
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