70 years ago today was the last time the atomic bomb was used

[backbreaker]

We dropped the atomic bomb on Nagasaki.

Does anyone here feel any regret for Killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese people?

 

[speed dawg]

We dropped the atomic bomb on Nagasaki.

Does anyone here feel any regret for Killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese people?

Absolutely not, you ungrateful b*stard. Ask those marines who were dying every day in Japan before they surrendered, ask them what they think.

Coward.

Some people are simply worthless.

 

[zekko]

I feel no regret because I wasn't even born yet, I wasn't there. I also wouldn't want to disrespect the military at the time, because the bombs ended the war, which would have probably gone on much longer and cost many more lives.

Regardless, it was a very terrible and sobering act, against mainly civilians, so there will always be some controversy there.

 

[backbreaker]

Absolutely not, you ungrateful b*stard. Ask those marines who were dying every day in Japan before they surrendered, ask them what they think.

Coward.

Some people are simply worthless.
__________________

be that as it may, it's still an atomic bomb. There's a reason why there's only been 2 ever used.


Also we were winning the war. I also never bought the american propaganda "oh we had to do it or else we would have lost 500k men" we could have kept with the torch bombings like we did on tokyo and would have won the war with very little causalities as their air force was 100% depleted by this point. It just would have taken longer and we were tired of the war.


The bomb literally evaporated 60k people the second it dropped it was s hot.
The heat of the atomic bomb was 10,830 degrees


There were still people dying in the 90's from radiation poisoning from the bomb.


I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm not saying it's right. I am saying disregarding any mention of dropping a ****ing atomic bomb on another country as "cowardliness" is childish.

 

[backbreaker]

the attack on pearl habor, while devastating killed 2,500 people


the combined deaths for the atomic bombs killed give or take 220 thousand people


I mean, i'm not what you would call a bleeding heart lol, i get war. I get that people have to die. I get that it's not pretty. But the atomic bomb is an entirely new level of ****ed up.


The atomic bomb is so ****ed up that people build them not to drop them on other people but to checkmate each other as a deterrent.


I just don't necessarily agree it was the right thing to do under the circumstances. we'd have won the war without the bomb in a matter of months by regular bombing of the mainland and was basically dropped to let everyone in the world know who was the new boss

 

[ArcBound]

I think we all like to imagine Japan as some innocent little tiny island nation where our anime and videogames come from, but forget that they were trying to take over the world, starting with all of Asia.

Did you know in the Rape of Nanjing alone, the Japanese killed as many people as the two atomic bombs? The Japanese army drove themselves into a frenzy going on massacre contests, and raping several thousand a day.

(That is not even counting the rest of the Sino-Japanese war, and actions of Japan in WW2 just 4 years later).

That is also not counting the treatment of Korean comfort women (forced sex slaves), Philippines, and Mongolia under Japan. Those nations plus China were glad Japan got knocked out and put in its place.


On a side note backbreaker, the Greeks thought bows and arrows were a cowards weapons, because they didn't fight up front (hence the constant making fun of Paris, who fought with them). Then gun powder came and people the Europeans and Arabians conquered thought gunpowder was for cowards. The polish cavalry on horses who fought the German tanks thought Germans were cowardly and unfair. The Pakistanis and Middle Easterns getting bombed by United States drones think it is unfair and cowardly.

War is not a place to be seen as cowardly or brave. War is a place to win. When countries are at a war, they are literally saying that they will kill each other over disagreements. I highly doubt they are going to sit around while fighting, and agree on use of excessive force.

If I walked around NYC and punched a random guy, I'd expect him to try to beat me up. If he hit me harder than I hit him, I'm not going to go "Hey hey stop, you used more force than I did". I'd expect to get beat up (if he was strong enough) to the max of his ability, not even counting on the fact that the guy might have a knife or a gun on him to use on me.

Japan was the country in that time period who went around slapping other countries willy nilly. Then one of the guys he slapped took out a gun and shot him twice.

Turned out for the better. You are also neglecting that the USA was a big factor in helping Japan get back on its feet to the economic powerhouse it is today. The USA helped Japan recover faster than even its European counterparts.

 

[backbreaker]

i'm not one way or the other. I think it's just an interesting discussion. There are not very many days where you can say "hey today is the 70 year anny on the last time the most devastating weapon ever conceived was used, let's talk about was it a good idea or not"


I agree the Japanese were not a group of innocent people but that's what happens when you brainwash your entire population, doesn't' mean they should be blown up by atomic bombs



If I were Truman, I would have probably used the bomb. But I would not have used it so quickly. I'd given it another 3 months or so. They had pretty much broke the japanese's back. While the will was there to fight to the end they were running out of men (literally) and entire cities were being wiped off the map.


My thing isn't necessarily that the bomb was used, it was that i think it was unnecessarily used. The war was over in all but name.

 

[speed dawg]

I mean, i'm not what you would call a bleeding heart lol, i get war. I get that people have to die. I get that it's not pretty. But the atomic bomb is an entirely new level of ****ed up.

No, you REALLY don't.

Just shut up. This permeated sick desperate morphing of 'compassion', combined with jealousy and plumb ignorance, is what has invaded and is conquering this country from the inside right now. Just wait until the next devastating terrorist attack, like 911, or what not. Where will all the libs and gays be then? Looking for everyone else to protect them, using all means necessary.

It's not interesting. It's just shows that your lack of reality.

 

[Stagger Lee]

The US and Britain carpet and fired bombed German cities day and night for a few years. Take the firing bombing of Dresden. It was totally unnecessary and unjustifiable. But since Germans are white, no one gives a sh!t about that.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/firebombing-of-dresden

On the evening of February 13, 1945, a series of Allied firebombing raids begins against the German city of Dresden, reducing the “Florence of the Elbe” to rubble and flames, and killing as many as 135,000 people. It was the single most destructive bombing of the war—including Hiroshima and Nagasaki—and all the more horrendous because little, if anything, was accomplished strategically, since the Germans were already on the verge of surrender

Japan, who actually attacked us and refused to surrender before the A-bombs were dropped, committed similar war crimes as Germany, but no one cares about that because they weren't white war criminals and the Japanese leadership was not punished. To this day, they're still pursuing 90 year old members of the Third Reich.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Stagger those are really good points. I never thought of it from that perspective.

Additionally, is there ever a comparison on the numbers of chinese killed versus the jewish which were killed?

Never, nor even the non-Jewish German and European civilians. The Japanese committed extensive war crimes and so did the Chines and of course later on under communist China.

http://listverse.com/2012/12/14/top-10-allied-war-crimes-of-world-war-ii/


The destruction in Germany didn't end after the war did.

After the fall of Berlin, Germany was in ruins. Occupied by millions of foreign troops, none of whom had complete control over any given entity, Germany quickly descended into anarchic lawlessness. It is believed that the Soviet Army alone was responsible for the rape of up to two million women and children, as well as the subsequent death of 240,000.

Claimed to be the largest mass rape in history, many unfortunate victims were assaulted up to a hundred times, and often could not resist in the face of overwhelming Soviet numbers.

For the most part, these atrocities were driven by the lust for revenge, although in many cases it was simply because the Soviets saw themselves as conquers, not liberators. Stalin himself was reputed to have said that people should be understanding, “if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle.”

 

[Tictac]

In the Japanese "Rape of Nanjing" somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 Chinese were murdered, mostly by bayoneting as the Japanese did not want to waste ammunition.

 

[prison/con.net]

we nuked Japan as a lesson to Stalin, " do NOT come any further into Europe, (and he got the message). we did NOT have to invade Japan. that was bs. All we had to do was keep them blockaded so they could not trade nor fish, and keep on firebombing them. there's no need to fight man to man when everyone has been starved or burned to death.

We SHOULD have nuked the 3 largest Russian cities, too (more if need be) to end communism as any sort of a threat. NO russia, no china, no Korea, no Nam, no Cuba, no Nicaraugua, no concern that what we have to do in the Middle East will cause problems, etc.

 

[backbreaker]

Japan, who actually attacked us and refused to surrender before the A-bombs were dropped, committed similar war crimes as Germany, but no one cares about that because they weren't white war criminals and the Japanese leadership was not punished.

not gonna work in this thread lol

1. every last member of the Japanese hierarchy of power was arrested, tried and convicted,, most executed. Literally the only person who was not was emperor Hirohito and the only reason he wasn't was because his right hand man and the sectary of war Tojo who got on the stand and fell on the sword for Hirohito saying the entire war effort was his planning, even the planning of peral harbor and the only reason he did THAT is that we made him lol because we wanted to to keep Hirohito in charge.


2. Over 5 thousand Japanese military men were tired and convicted and over 900 were executed for war crimes. you know how many nazi's were executed for war crimes lol? ****ing 12. you came to the wrong thread against thew wrong person trying to spew lies i actually read **** besides how to get laid guides

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMTFE_defendants.jpg

llied military commissions in various cities of the Orient tried 5,700 Japanese, Taiwanese and Koreans for war crimes. About 4,300 were convicted, almost 1,000 sentenced to death, and hundreds given life imprisonment. The charges arose from incidents that included the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March and Manila massacre.[239] The trial in Manila of Yama****a was criticized because he was hanged for Iwabuchi's Manila massacre, which he had not ordered and of which he was probably unaware.

3. Emperor Hirohito not being executed for war crimes was 100% the decision of Douglas McAruthur whose not only white but is from the same city as me; i've taken quite a few field trips to his birthplace in north little rock. McAruthur felt that because the Japanese loyalty to their emperor was so strong it would be easier to manipulate the Japanese to move forward if he was kept alive as a figurehead while he and others ran the show behind the scenes.

Hirohito's son is the emperor of japan today though now it's just a figurehead position.


so not only is your effort to try to paint the ****ing third Reich as victims a disaster lol; we killed more japanese people for war crimes at a rate of 7500% percent higher than we did the Germans, but you have completely dodged the question was the bomb necessary. Any historian worth a **** will tell you the germans were left off MUCH easier than the Japanese were as a whole.


Also remember that days before we dropped the bome Russia declared war on Japan and had already invaded the northern front.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

But I would not have used it so quickly. I'd given it another 3 months or so.

They knew they had the Japanese beat. The "end the war to save American lives" line is propaganda.

The REAL reason they used the bomb was to scare off the Russians. The Russians were getting ready to invade Japan (and continued to fight the Japanese in Manchuria for three days after they surrendered).

The U.S. wanted to:

1) Show the Russians we had the bomb, and would use it

2) Keep Japan as a wholly client state of the U.S. and not split it like they would do with Korea.

As far a Pearl Harbor, that was a total set up.

(source: Day of Deceit)

They WANTED Japan to attack pearl harbor as Japan, Italy and Germany all agreed that they would declare war on anybody who declared war on them.

The U.S. was VERY isolationist at the time. FDR wanted the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor, so we could declare war on Japan, so Germany would declare ware on the U.S.

If you want to feel sorry for the Japanese, feel sorry for the Firebombing of Tokyo which killed just as many and lasted a full ten months of relentless destruction.

But that's harder to pontificate about than a single event like the much celebrated Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Besides I've been to the Hiroshima Atomic Bomb Dome a few times, and the local tourists (Japanese) take pictures in front of it like they are at Disneyland or something.

The average Japanese on the street doesn't seem to think much of it, why should we?

 

[zekko]

I've always heard that the Japanese had vowed to fight down to the last man, and the atomic bombs were used to shorten the war. Or maybe that's just propaganda, like Taiyuu says, who knows?

But Pearl Harbor was genuinely a military target. The atomic bombs affected mostly the civilian population. Y'all know as well as I know that if someone nuked an American city, we would be calling that a terrorist act.

 

[speed dawg]

I wonder why it is not pounded in our heads everyday how the Japanese are terrible people and should never again congregate or allow nationalism because of this. Or perhaps that message is saved only for whites.

Agree, it's not that the Japanese had it any worse or better, it's the MESSAGE that white people are some type of devil oppressors.

But always remember, this message is promulgated by white people, for other white people. Why, you ask? Because at one time, white people did sit at the pinnacle of its decadence, and as anyone/history will tell you, you can only go down at that point. Jealousy and envy throughout the white race, has begun the destruction of the white race.

Every true enemy is always within.

 

[Bible_Belt]

A-bombs today are the reason another world war has not started and countries generally dont invade each other.

I agree. On the other hand, though, the nuke club of nations keeps growing. We're going to find out if the deterrence effect holds true for lesser developed nations who hate each other - like India and Pakistan.

As nuclear capabilities spread to more countries, they will make it to places with increasing instability in their governments. And those nations are only pursuing their own self-interest. The Ukraine gave up their Soviet nukes in exchange for a promise of protection from the West, which later proved to be an empty promise after the Russians took Crimea.

 

[prison/con.net]

no, the bomb was NOT necesary,. read my posts about that. It might have been necessary to stop Stalin with the threat of being nuked, but we could easily have subdued japan with just the naval blockade (already in place) and the firebombing. There would have been almost no resistance left had we done so, so the "invasion" would have had to wait a year, so what? 90% of the invasion forces would not have been needed. Send them home early

 

[Stagger Lee]

Backbreaker, your numbers are incorrect and misleading. 80,000 Germans in total were convicted in allied courts of war crimes, and in just Poland alone 40,000 Germans were convicted of war crimes. Thousands of these men were summarily hanged or otherwise beaten to death by angry locals. And at the Nuremberg trials, 200 Germans were convicted. In addition, hundreds of thousands of German soldiers were incarcerated and starved to death in the frozen gulags of Russia without the benefit of a trial at all.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/36qs.html

And this is according to a Jewish website, the Wiesenthal Center, and you know if anything they're going to downplay the level of punishment suffered by the Germans in the aftermath of WW2.

Only a tiny percentage of leading Japanese officers were ever tried and convicted, especially when compared to the overwhelming numbers of Germans that were tried and convicted before courts, or simply summarily executed during the invasion of Germany or in the frozen tundras of the Soviet Union.

Compare these numbers to the 920 Japanese who were executed for their war crimes, 320 of whom were not Japanese at all - they were Korean or Taiwanese. Where you got this bs number that 7500% more Japanese were executed than Germans is totally beyond me.

Germany itself was completely overrun, and tens of thousands more German officials and soldiers were killed without the benefit of a trial due to the nature of the four pronged allied invasion into Germany - a devastatingly destructive invasion that Japan itself was saved from experiencing thanks to the atomic bombs being dropped.

The dropping of the atomic bombs were necessary in order to win the war and prevent even more people from being killed. And the atomic bombs didn't kill as many civilians as other conventional bombings of other cities. They also prevented an invasion of the Japanese home islands, which would have killed many many more people.

The dropping of the atom bombs shortened the war and actually saved many more lives than they took.

Thanks Bradd, I have no idea where BB gets his info, but Germany was treated very harshly by all the allies especially by the Soviets and far worse than Japan after the war by the allies. For 70 years and counting the Germans have been shamed and anyone with any ties to the Third Reich pursued. And you're right, many German civilians were killed in around the clock bombing and other actions. Just the mostly unnecessary firebombing of Dresden was probably as bad as the A-bomb drop.

 

[Jaylan]

Many historians have said the war was won before we dropped the atom bombs. But just like with vietnam and iraq, certain Americans will believe anything we do militarily was just and for "freedom". Propoganda can be that strong.