6 Day Wait Justification

[ArizonaDJ]

When I get a number I always say "I'll call you next week," that way there's no confusion about it. If a woman says "call me tomorrow" then I'll either say "okay" and call her tomorrow, or I'll say "not sure if I can, I'll call you next week." That way nothing I do can be labeled as game-playing, and she still is subjected to the one-week test of whether she's genuinely interested, or just a stroker who's out to waste my time.

The sad reality here is that the vast majority of women are dishonest and are 'Professional Daters," therefore as men we don't have much choice but to have to do these sort of things to weed out the real women from the time-wasters. If I called all women within 2-3 days then I'd have no way to gauge her interest level until after I've invested time and money on a date.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ArizonaDJ:
When I get a number I always say "I'll call you next week," that way there's no confusion about it. If a woman says "call me tomorrow" then I'll either say "okay" and call her tomorrow, or I'll say "not sure if I can, I'll call you next week." That way nothing I do can be labeled as game-playing, and she still is subjected to the one-week test of whether she's genuinely interested, or just a stroker who's out to waste my time.

The sad reality here is that the vast majority of women are dishonest and are 'Professional Daters," therefore as men we don't have much choice but to have to do these sort of things to weed out the real women from the time-wasters. If I called all women within 2-3 days then I'd have no way to gauge her interest level until after I've invested time and money on a date.

The fact that you let her know not to expect a call right away is entirely different than just not calling. You'll have much better results that way. She has no reason to view you as rude because you said it's be next week. Yes, you want her to be on her toes and anticipating the call, but you DON'T want her to get pissed at you and think you're rude or an @sshole. If you don't warn her not to expect the call for awhile by day 4 she is going to be calling her friends and biotching about you, calling you every name in the book. They will dislike you before even knowing you and then you have the whole friend interference thing going on. I know because I have a couple of friends who call me and are furious over a guy not calling. It's not really the waiting that can make a girl lose interest...it's not being courteous enough to respect her time. You are respecting her time and being courteous, and that's why waiting longer works for you. If you didn't say anything it would reap different results.

 

[xniceguy]

Galactus:

"You are so wrong.
That is a totally AFC response. "

A serious charge from a DJ I respect, so I'll respond.

"Saying a woman can't be understood, so all a man can do is be consistent, hoping that by chance, a woman will react positively. "

X's theory: Live your life, do your thang, and find a compatible woman. It's not by chance, you gotta go find that woman by being out and about, talking to people, dating, having game, all that good stuff, but never change for a woman. That way lies AFC-dom.


"There are reasons for a woman's behavior. You're right, they do feel. When you feel angry, or sad, or happy, is there no reason? Do you just feel this way with no cause? That's what insane people do. True, women do seem insane at times, but when I get an emotional reaction from a woman, I can often trace the reason back to something I did or said. Therefore, change the way you act, and you can change the way they react."

Very true, and if you know the woman well you can often get pretty good at this. But some chick you met in a bar? How you gonna get in her head after 20 min. of convo? Can't be done.

And I think you're wrong; a lot of times women feel for no good reason - the moon, the tides, the wind being in the NNE as opposed to ENE, Suzy in accounting was mean to her, the bus was late today - women react much more strongly to this than we do. It's the butterfly affect - a butterfly flapping its wings in China affects the course of Atlantic hurricanes.

"It's all just a matter of being able to predict what a woman is going to say or do in response to you."

GENERALLY speaking, for some values, yes. You can predict with some accuracy what women in the aggregate will like (shoes) and dislike (belch contests). But I don't think that can be reliably extended to what THIS PARTICULAR woman likes and dislikes.

"There was a reason she didn't call me back. If I knew what it was, I could adjust to make it work out better the next time."

Yes, there was, in the Aquinan "Uncaused Cause" sense. But my point is that that reason is probably COMPLETELY RANDOM and NOT WORTH changing you game. Her car took a while to start, or she spilled coffee on her fave blouse that morning, or the humidity wrecked her hair, or her least fave sister called her and she had to talk to her. Some stupid **** like that got her in a foul mood, and she couldn't recognize the kick-ass DJ asking her out. Her loss.


"Or I could do it your way, and forget about self-improvement."

That's a bit harsh. I don't worry about one or two chicks not calling me back, true. That way lies madness. When there's a pattern over more than a few prospects/dates, and this pattern is fairly consistent, THEN I make adjustments. Not because of a random one-off.

Hope this clarifies my stance.

And for the record, I'm an advocate of the "natural' 5-day wait - be so busy with your life that you really don't have spare time to call.

------------------
Chicks don't think. Chicks feel.

 

[PoachR75]

dorian-gray IS right on one thing... most (attractive)American women do end up getting care of by the guy in their life, and, if not, THEIR FAMILYT TAKES UP THE SLACK (ESPECIALLY DADDY!).

How true THIS is....! How AMAZINGLY true!

And since I posted this topic, I'll feel free to add a personal opinion (not directed at any particular person): I feel that is genuinely unwise to heed advice from any female on how to operate as a Don Juan with females. Especially about phone calls.

Just MY 2 cents. (Which anyone with any sense would agree with).



------------------
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she's ordered the lobster. There's no point in waiting for the cavalry, because, as of this moment, the cavalry is US."
-- The Shoveler, "Mystery Men"

 

[ArizonaDJ]

Poach, you bring up a good point. Wyldfire talks about her friends who get furious over a guy not calling after 4 days. As DJs we've all learned the hard way that while women will complain about those guys, they're also attracted to those guys who don't call and jump into bed with them as soon as they can. The guy who calls right away is "polite" and a "nice guy" ... and we all know what that does to attraction.

 

[Galactus]

Xniceguy: Just for the record, it wasn't long before I realized I was out of line with the suggestion that you're an AFC. You've made some very good points, and I've learned from things you've posted, so I owe you an apology.

But, I still disagree with you on this. I'll pick out a few things and respond to them.

Those things that you say are not reasons that they feel, they ARE reasons. The bus being late, and Suzy in accounting being mean to her. Everybody has experiences that color their reactions to things, and these are reactions that we can never predict. These experiences are called anchors.

There's an actor that I don't like, and one day I realized it was because he reminds me of a guy who used to harrass me when I was a little kid. Isn't that silly? This actor may be a cool guy, but I have negative feelings toward him because of a childhood experience that has nothing to do with him.

We're talking about two different things here. You never know what kind of negative anchors a person has, so in some cases, you're just not going to win with a person. But IN GENERAL, there are things you can learn to help in dealing with women.

If she doesn't want to eat an apple, my thinking is that either she has some irrational anchor towards round red objects with stems (in which case I'll never get her to eat it, because she's not even aware of the anchor herself), or she has tasted them before, and just doesn't like them. In most cases, almost all, it's going to be the latter. If it's not, then basically the human race needs to toss the whole field of psychology out the window.

And I don't advocate changing for a woman. But I do believe in changing for women. I was a total chump before. If I hadn't changed, they would still be leading me around by my dyck.

Changing for a woman: AFC
Changing for women: DJ

Yes, you can get in a woman's head in less than 20 minutes. Absolutely. It's called eliciting values. Some people are pros at it, and even I can do it to some degree, although I haven't perfected it yet. I can recommend a diaperload of books that will tell you how to get in a person's head in a short time, and persuade them to come over to your way of thinking. Yes, it can be done. Here are some authors that can teach you how: Richard Bandler, Anthony Robbins, David J. Lieberman, John J. Emerick, Jr., Ross Jeffries, Michael Brooks, Milton Erickson, and Kenrick Cleveland, to name a few. They teach neuro linguistic programming (NLP). Very interesting, powerful stuff, and it will put you in charge of your interactions with everyone in your life.

True, there may actually be women who like belching contests more than shoes, but since most would prefer shoes, you can make an educated guess. However, take a minute or two to elicit her values, and if belching contests are important enough to her, you'll know it.

When I talked about making an adjustment based on the reason for her not calling back, I wasn't trying to imply that her rationale was going to cause me to make a permanent change in my behavior. If I found that, in the long run, waiting six days produced better results than five or less, then I would stay at six days. The guys that advocate six or more days have gone through the trial-and-error process, too. They've made adjustments until they found what works best for them. That's all I'm trying to do.

No way am I going to base my actions on one woman's logic. Unless of course, she confirmed what I was already thinking. Then I would probably make a "test" adjustment, and see if my theory still held up. If it didn't, then I would have to make further adjustments. If numerous women confirm what I'm thinking, then I have to assume it's a workable theory. I was only considering making an adjustment because I wasn't really all that comfortable with the six-day wait in the first place.

Again, I'm sorry if I acted like you were some newbie who doesn't know his ass from Uranus. I value your opinion X, but I can't agree with you on this one.

Women can be understood. That is why I can have control in my dealings with them. I am not at the mercy of their whims. They're at the mercy of mine.

------------------
"For anybody who's on the downside of advantage and relying purely on courage... it's possible."
- Russell Crowe

 

[xniceguy]

No worries on the AFC-calling, mate. Hell, if I ever come across as one, please call me on it.

Maybe I should check out the NLP deal. I'm not sure I could pull it off without sounding awkward, but it's worth a look.

Agreed, it's a tuning process, and adjustments are good, provided that the adjustments are made in response to overarching trends and not temporary blips on the screen.



------------------
Chicks don't think. Chicks feel.

 

[Turbobird]

Originally posted by ArizonaDJ:
When I get a number I always say "I'll call you next week," that way there's no confusion about it. If a woman says "call me tomorrow" then I'll either say "okay" and call her tomorrow, or I'll say "not sure if I can, I'll call you next week." That way nothing I do can be labeled as game-playing, and she still is subjected to the one-week test of whether she's genuinely interested, or just a stroker who's out to waste my time.

The sad reality here is that the vast majority of women are dishonest and are 'Professional Daters," therefore as men we don't have much choice but to have to do these sort of things to weed out the real women from the time-wasters. If I called all women within 2-3 days then I'd have no way to gauge her interest level until after I've invested time and money on a date.

There are basically tree reasons for you to wait >5 days to call.

* Prove for yourself that you are willing to take a risk and lose her.

* Make her think you are a busy and worthy person.

* Make her wonder if you will call her. (She will probably think about this every day.)

By telling her that YOU WILL call her and WHEN you will call her, you fail on each of the points above. This is how you fail on each point:

Prove for yourself that you are willing to take a risk and lose her.
You will not risk anything cause you already know she have accepted that you will wait.

Make her think you are a busy and worthy person.
She will think you are as eager to meet her as she is to meet you.

Make her wonder if you will call her.
She will take it as if you ask her of permission to wait calling her. Also, now she *knows* you WILL call her.

Also, someone wrote that if you wait a long time she would forget you because she is approached by a lot of men every day. Is it really so? I approached a 9 yesterday and asked for her phone#. This is what she told me:

“Sure, This doesn’t happen too often.”

She was really hot, and told me she didn’t got approached often!!! Don’t think too high of the chicks. It’s not sure she always get approached. Don’t assume she gets 15 approaches/day!

/Turbobird

[This message has been edited by Turbobird (edited 04-16-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Turbobird (edited 04-16-2002).]

 

[WildThang]

Originally posted by Turbobird:
There are basically tree reasons for you to wait >5 days to call.

* Prove for yourself that you are willing to take a risk and lose her.

Yes! It's not for her, it's for you. It's so you get used to the idea of not organising your time around (what you think may be) one chick's needs and demands.

* Make her think you are a busy and worthy person.

More than this, make her realise that she is not the most important thing in your life. You are not so pathetically grateful you met her that you'll put the rest of your life on hold for her.

This isn't game playing, so much as an affirmation of high status. It shows that you are not desperate. Not desperate means you're potentially high status. Potentially high status means she'll be more interested in you.

Compare this with guys who call the day after. She *knows* they're desperate because they've made her a priority. But as we know, a desperate guy is always low status. So that means low interest from her.

* Make her wonder if you will call her. (She will probably think about this every day.)

And that's good because she'll be thinking a lot. And the whole scene will turn into a fine little drama for her to excited about.

She was really hot, and told me she didn’t got approached often!!! Don’t think too high of the chicks. It’s not sure she always get approached. Don’t assume she gets 15 approaches/day!

Yes! This idea that there are millions of horny guys trying to run down every single available chick, and if you don't make a move immediately she'll have a new bf in a week is toxic BS. That's what women would *like* to believe because it makes them feel special and important.

But it doesn't work like that in any reality that most guys on here are going to be living in. Of all the guys that hit on a chick, she's maybe going to be *seriously* interested in a few percent of them. The rest are disposable. (Forget the reasons - they don't matter. It's just the way it is.)

And hotties don't get hit on all the time, because a lot of guys are too chickenshyt to make a move.

So all that means that you *have* to wait at least five days before calling. And preferably longer.

If she's snitty when you call, next her. This tells you she'll only be snitty about other things you do, so it's no loss to you.

If she's forgotten you, remind her. But if she's forgotten you that soon, it won't make any different when you call anyway. She's not interested.

Otherwise, just wait. And while you're waiting, keep getting numbers. So when you do call you don't care what her response is.

[This message has been edited by WildThang (edited 04-16-2002).]

 

[JUST ME]

WILDTHANG- YOU are 100% right,exactly! you must have doc loves system