5 day split?

[dentalfloss]

5 day splits arent that bad, i was on a 3-day then my overachieving/push-it-to-the-limit physically and mentally friend came back from university and goaded me into a 5 day split, never seen such gains...but you gotta stay on top of that rest otherwise its really easy to overtrain

 

[vanwilder]

its not that easy to overtrian, its jsut an excuse, i hit everything 2x a week and i make huge gains. ive gained 40 lbs this year and at times i went to a ****ty split and i wish i stayed with the one im on now.

 

[dentalfloss]

its easy to overtrain when youre job is physical work 5-6 days a week and then hitting the gym after, believe me, i've battled like 2 colds over this summer cus of going too hard at the gym

btw where in calgary are you?

 

[vanwilder]

pm and then well talk, i wont post it on the board

ok well in your case that can lead to overtraining, but it doenst happen in one day, it occurs after aperiod of time. i still dont agree with it though. i workout and run up to 3 hours a day and i dont overtrain.

during the begginign of the year i would workout in the morning, have a football practice, THEN go to badminton training (this is not just ***** hitting, this si hard work), and i didnt overtrain. while hitting everything in the gym 2x a week still.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Originally posted by vanwilder
how can you have no idea waht i said. pressing motions require tricep strength and by working it out the day before your obviously not going to perform as well with shoulder exercises in comparison to when you didnt. and then obviously your not hitting your arms hard enough that day either. next of all with the chest thing i said, becuase your CHEST EXERCISES ARE PUSH AS WELL< AND REQUIRE SHOULDER STRENGTH, working your shoulders out so close to your chest day will obviously take away the intensity from that workout.

and btw it was a suggestion for the other guy not you. you apparently know it all anyways so i wouldnt bother trying to help you.

o and btw to the other guy, this is apparently going to be a quote from the arnold book because that ius the only place where i get my information from.

i train in HIT, if you can find a harder way to train, i'd like to hear it.

secondly, i said this before, recovery is dependant on your diet and supplementation, as well as rest. for me, a good intake of glutamine, 10 hrs of sleep, and a big carb breakfast is enough to let me work shoulders after an arm day and keep making gains.

thirdly, yes I know that all pressing movements include triceps to a certain extent. but there is a way to minimize the use of triceps when it comes to bench/military exercises, such as wider grips, and not pushing the weight up all the way. if you push the weight all the way up and straighten your out your arms on every rep, you overinvolve triceps. if you push the weight up 5-7 inches and then back down, you keep the focus on the exercise on pecs (or delts if you're doing military press). i shouldn't even have to explain this to you, do your own research.

fourth of all, my shoulder gains have been my strongest point, but according to you, they'd suck. that must be why i can add 5lbs to my military press every week. oh then it must be my arms that suck. too bad they don't.

fifth of all, there is at least 1 day of full rest (sometimes 2) between my shoulder and chest days, wtf are you talking about?

honestly, i find it ironic that a guy who trains everything 2x a week is telling me im not getting enough rest as for the whole 40 lbs, grats? that means nothing to me since I don't know what your bodyfat levels now and when you started, but considering you posted a thread where you said you were taking an ephedrine + caffeene stack, i wouldn't be surprised to find out what the content of these 40 lbs was...

 

[Warboss Alex]

i train in HIT, if you can find a harder way to train, i'd like to hear it.

DC.

 

[semag]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
DC.

Amen... your training ain't nothing unless it's crapp

 

[MindOverMatter]

DC is essentially a HIT subcategory as far as I'm concerned, it's very similar, only difference I've found was the widowmakers.

 

[Warboss Alex]

There's a world of difference between HIT and DC mate, including diet and extreme stretching .. but I'll not get into it, you've obviously looked into the subject so I'll leave it at "to each their own" and a smiley .

DC isn't for 95% of the people on this board anyway.

 

[MindOverMatter]

ya the 2g/lb and extreme stretching.

but i mean training wise, principles are still the same. heavy ass compounds only, low reps, low sets, maximum intensity.

 

[vanwilder]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
i train in HIT, if you can find a harder way to train, i'd like to hear it.

i train with ym own routine, i dont like any of those other ones.

secondly, i said this before, recovery is dependant on your diet and supplementation, as well as rest. for me, a good intake of glutamine, 10 hrs of sleep, and a big carb breakfast is enough to let me work shoulders after an arm day and keep making gains.

it was jsut a reccomendation to the other guy not you, i wasnt directing anything at you, get over it. and IT WAS A RECCOMENDATION, i wasnt trying to change your workout.

thirdly, yes I know that all pressing movements include triceps to a certain extent. but there is a way to minimize the use of triceps when it comes to bench/military exercises, such as wider grips, and not pushing the weight up all the way. if you push the weight all the way up and straighten your out your arms on every rep, you overinvolve triceps. if you push the weight up 5-7 inches and then back down, you keep the focus on the exercise on pecs (or delts if you're doing military press). i shouldn't even have to explain this to you, do your own research.

you said you didnt understand what i was saying, all i did was ****ing explain it a bit better. try and get your panties out of its knot. and you know this and i know this, but waht about everyone else, why dont you take the time to explain everything if he is going to use YOUR WORKOUT. O and btw, that sounds like something out of the arnold book, so you would think i would know about it common

fourth of all, my shoulder gains have been my strongest point, but according to you, they'd suck. that must be why i can add 5lbs to my military press every week. oh then it must be my arms that suck. too bad they don't.

stop putting words in my mouth, NEVER ONCE did i say this, i was simply reccomending to the other guy and explaining why it would be more beneficial for him to do it that way, rather than you explaining how you do your workout.

fifth of all, there is at least 1 day of full rest (sometimes 2) between my shoulder and chest days, wtf are you talking about?

once again another reccomendation, how long have you been working out, MUCH longer than he has, therefore for the first while he will be sore for a couple days after his workouts, and that will carry onto his chest days. common relax a bit.

honestly, i find it ironic that a guy who trains everything 2x a week is telling me im not getting enough rest as for the whole 40 lbs, grats? that means nothing to me since I don't know what your bodyfat levels now and when you started, but considering you posted a thread where you said you were taking an ephedrine + caffeene stack, i wouldn't be surprised to find out what the content of these 40 lbs was...

where the **** did you get that i said you didnt get enough rest, i arranged the workout so you could get even mroe rest that is all. **** man.

about the same bodyfat when i gained my 40 lbs, although i dont need to say anything to you, because you are obviously not goign to beleive me. i follow my creatine cycles with a week of epehdrine normally to get rid of extra water weight. AS well i used it to cut excess bodyfat out. obviously that would make me smaller and i would be even bigger to this date. that was a stupid thing to even consider putting in this post.

 

[vanwilder]

i didnt bash you or anything, i dont know why you got all hostile, i realize your one of hte only people on board that know anything yet other poepel have valuble insights as well. but you do know, your not always 100% correct, and you can listen and take in what other peopel have to say without hostility, when i read your posts i take out what i like, i dont disregard all the information, same with a bunch of other people' posts, obviously not a great portion off this board or bodybuilding.com though. that is how i have learned much more in my lifting "career" than some people have after 4 years.

 

[Julian]

man you clowns hijacked the sh1t out of this thread lol.

 

[DrSassyPants]

vanwilder, do you even read what you post? If you did, you'd realize you're the one getting hostile...over NOTHING! The guy is just defending the way he works out and explaining why it works for him. Sheesh.

 

[vanwilder]

Originally posted by DrSassyPants
vanwilder, do you even read what you post? If you did, you'd realize you're the one getting hostile...over NOTHING! The guy is just defending the way he works out and explaining why it works for him. Sheesh.

how am i getting hostile look at my origional posts.

"i really dont think you should be doing shoulders after arms, you will not have your 100% to do your shoulders because your arms are tired from the previous day. switch the two around. and by doing this youll give it an extra day to heal over for your chest workout which indirectly needs shoulders."

"how can you have no idea waht i said. pressing motions require tricep strength and by working it out the day before your obviously not going to perform as well with shoulder exercises in comparison to when you didnt. and then obviously your not hitting your arms hard enough that day either. next of all with the chest thing i said, becuase your CHEST EXERCISES ARE PUSH AS WELL< AND REQUIRE SHOULDER STRENGTH, working your shoulders out so close to your chest day will obviously take away the intensity from that workout.

and btw it was a suggestion for the other guy not you. you apparently know it all anyways so i wouldnt bother trying to help you.

o and btw to the other guy, this is apparently going to be a quote from the arnold book because that ius the only place where i get my information from."

that isnt getting hostile. i was a bit ticked i must say because everything i say is wrong with this guy because he thinks he knows it all.

in my first post a i made a simple statement and the second post i explained it.

 

[MindOverMatter]

vanwilder, you quoted my post saying that you wouldn't do a shoulder day after an arm day because it would slow down your shoulder gains. I defended it saying that recovery is very diet/supplement dependant, and that if you eat properly, and supplement properly, you will be able to make gains on your shoulders. i then thanked you for your advice (i assumed it was directed at me since you quoted my post), and said it wasn't necessery. you got upset then and called me a mr know it all.

look no one knows everything about fitness, that's why i keep saying listen to your body, because that's how you make gains. but when it comes to chosing between listening to my own body, and listening to the advice of a 17 year old that can't do a cutting cycle w/o an E + caffene stack, I chose the first.

then you said:

pressing motions require tricep strength and by working it out the day before your obviously not going to perform as well with shoulder exercises in comparison to when you didnt. and then obviously your not hitting your arms hard enough that day either.

that's what I took offense to.

in other words, if i'm not making gains on my shoulders, it's because im tired from the arm day, but if i am making gains, im not training my arms hard enough. you basically stated that no matter what gains i make, i'm training wrong. i find it ridiculous that someone who i've never met or have never trained with is telling me that i'm not training hard enough lol.

It's the same thing as when you talk about how not training twice a week due to overtraining is an excuse for not training hard enough. In some way, you always imply that if we don't train exactly the way you do, we're not training hard enough.

Anyway, I already explained to you how you can train shoulders after an arm day and still make gains on both groups - in both nutritional and training fields, so I have no interest in furthering this internet pissing contest. train how you like.

 

[mrRuckus]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter

Anyway, I already explained to you how you can train shoulders after an arm day and still make gains on both groups - in both nutritional and training fields, so I have no interest in furthering this internet pissing contest. train how you like.

Well since you're on this subject, could i ask you your opinion?

Currently:
Mon - chest, triceps, shoulders
Wed - legs, abs
Fri - back, biceps

Would you think it would be better to do what you said about the "half reps" (like only do part of the shoulder press without all the extra tricep work) or just suck if up and move shoulders to another day?

I tried doing chest, triceps, and shoulders and by the time i tried to do a shoulder press i could barely do any, i think due to my triceps being wasted. Maybe i should start with shoulder exercises then do chest then finish off the triceps instead?

thanks

 

[MindOverMatter]

i've had the same problem whenever i tried to do shoulders on my chest day. by the time i did my chest and tri workout, i had nothing left for my military press.

best things to do is move shoulders to a different day.

my fav 3 day split (and warboss will prolly recommend the same) is:

day 1 - chest + triceps
day 2 - back + biceps
day 3 - legs + shoulders

you can do abs on the offdays. as for the military press half reps, I always do them that way, get more of a delt workout. i do the same for various bench presses.

 

[mrRuckus]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
i've had the same problem whenever i tried to do shoulders on my chest day. by the time i did my chest and tri workout, i had nothing left for my military press.

best things to do is move shoulders to a different day.

my fav 3 day split (and warboss will prolly recommend the same) is:

day 1 - chest + triceps
day 2 - back + biceps
day 3 - legs + shoulders

you can do abs on the offdays.

aw well i'll suck it up and move shoulders to leg day. i just liked leg day bein a quick day in and out of the gym. guess i can add a lil bit more to do shoulders that day.

i've seen warboss recommend both chest/shoulders/triceps and just chest/triceps with shoulders on leg day. Guess i'm a leg day shoulders guy :/

thanks

 

[Warboss Alex]

When in doubt, do shoulders with legs as MOM said - although it's all a matter of preference.. for a complete beginner or someone who's not sure I'd say put 'em with legs (so they get the maximum attention without chest exercises burning them out), but if you're comfortable with doing them with chest/triceps then go for it!

Personally, I do shoulders with chest and triceps, and since I have the same problem (my shoulders give out after the chest/tricep exercises), I do shoulders first, then chest, then triceps - works fine for ME, but other people might find that their triceps give out having done chest and shoulders, so they'd be better off doing shoulders another day.. (since chest and triceps should be trained together IMO).

It's all very individual, just find out what you like, through trial and error - it took me a looooooong time of saying "next time I'll manage my shoulder exercise too" (on chest/triceps/shoulder day) until I finally found what worked for me..

Part of the fun is finding what works and what doesn't, believe it or not.