27-year-old needs advice

[Stavrogin]

I hope someone here can offer advice to a novice Don Juan.

I'm 27 years old but haven't had a girlfriend, a date, or any kind of sexual relations. I ended up this way for the usual reasons: extreme shyness, lack of basic social skills, and no friends to help me out. The most I ever did was hold hands with a woman at a work-related function in '04. I suppose that's progress.

Let me just quash any questions people are bound to have about this woman before someone asks why I don't just ask her out. At the time of the above-mentioned function, she had been in a rocky relationship with a guy who worked as a sales***** at a well-known health club. Apparently, the guy was violent and possessive, prompting her to dump him several times. Actually, he reminded me somewhat of Biff from the Back to the Future movies.

Several months ago, she gave birth to his baby. Even though she dumped him a couple of times during the pregnancy, the baby seems to have stabilized the relationship; otherwise, she wouldn't still be living with him. I've given up hope that this woman will leave him or that he'll do something to get a life sentence without the possibility of parole, so I'm not going to ask you how I can seduce her.

So, here I am. Having just thumbed through the Don Juan Bible, I now know that I have violated just about every rule in the book. I am ready to learn from my mistakes and not indulge in self-pity. However, I still have many concerns. Although I am not unattractive and do have some good qualities, I worry that confessing I am a 27-year-old who hasn't even been on a date will scare away or turn off even the nicest girl. I think most women expect a guy my age to be a sexual acrobat.

I'd like to know what you guys think of my chances at this point. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[racerX]

Your 27 years old. Forget about dating any chick w/ a kid. There are hundreds of thousands of single babes w/o kids age 20-27 that you can pursue. Dont waste your time. Read the DJ bible. Be positive. Develope hobbies. Dont act needy. Dont act desperate. Be social. Hit the gym. Improve your look/style/clothes/haircut.

 

[Robbie]

Stavrogin,

I used to post a lot on this board but not so much any more. Two reasons I'm back to visit: First, I'm having the worst f'n caffeine withdrawal and can't focus on any of my work. Second, I had to congratulate another one of of our members on his recent success (see the 27 and still nothing thread).

The good thing about this place is that people will tell you to forget about this chick you held hands with. It's her decision to be with Biff, and it's not your job to protect her and tell her what she should want. That's her business. Her and OJ can have another nintey children together for all you care. So much for her.

So, you say you're not trying to seduce her. That's probably a good thing. You want success with women? The advice you'll find here is a double edged sword. It's good cuz it talks you out of wasting your time with women who don't care about you and who aren't going to change a thing for you. It helps you feel unashamed of being a man and trying to date, hook up with, seduce, screw, or whatever your goal is regarding women.

And then there are the seduction techniques and headgames and the community and all of these products and services that people want you to buy to make you into some Don Juan, when you came here feeling like the exact opposite. They're trynna exploit your insecurity. Don't listen to them. You can play these games, but they take up a lot of time, seldom work reliably, and destroy anything that was fun and spontaneous about the field, whoops, I meant dating.

Also, there are a lot of woman haters prowling around this board. The more you listen to them, the more you'll think like them. That attitude will hurt you a lot more than being shy or being a virgin. By the way, you don't have to announce how inexperienced you are to a woman you're dating. Don't even think about that. Don't even think about HER expectations or what SHE wants until you've been together and she's demonstrated that she cares about what you want and how you feel. I guess you should just go with your gut on this (as well as everything else) but remember that YOU also have expectations. Maybe she won't be the "nicest girl" and maybe you won't be the "acrobat" at first. Things can get better. Worry about that when the time comes. For now, work on getting to hold hands with someone or kissing, etc. You're not the only one in this situation. It's not the worst situation, but I know it feels pretty damned bad.

Don't sell yourself short. You've obviously got some stuff to offer the ladies. You're a little shy and haven't made many friends to help you out. That's probably what's hurting you the most. Focus on making friends and meeting women. Let them know if you like them. Ask them out. Get them alone if you can. If they like you, they'll make that part easy for you. Even if you're not doing a lot of asking out, eventually, some girl will see you and ask her friends about you. They'll more or less set you up. That's the way it goes, well, unless you want to try your hand at cold approaches, or the bars and clubs, but that's another topic. That's an art unto itself and it's not as easy as everyone around here tells you it is.

Good luck. Don't take none of this stuff too seriously, especially the rules or the bible. All the rules pretty much say the same thing, over and over again...

step 1 - take care of your body and your career
step 2 - keep in touch with lots of friends, especially people who have social skills and can introduce you to other people, like women
step 3 - don't be affraid or embarrassed to show women that you like them and want to get with them. men still do most of the approaching these days

The rest of the stuff you'll read around here is either BS or icing on the - I forget who coined the term - "get laid cake." Good luck.

 

[dr_devious]

Robbie is right in his advice. Try not to worry about women too much at first, work on your self-esteem (counselling, self-help books etc), find some hobbies, make some friends and these will help you with your confidence and provide some opportunities to meet women. Forget about the woman you held hands with too, move on

 

[ElChoclo]

You have received sound advice from Robbie and DrDevious.

However, your situation sounds severe. Shyness is a big problem in any situation, not just with women. I suggest you take up a martial art. As Mr Miyagi says, " Always look eye". I think he stole that from Bruce Lee anyway.

Forget the problem woman at work. Remember what happened to George McFly before his son comes back from the future. Well this is reality and nobody is coming back from the future to help you.

What you need is a target rich non threatening operating environment where you don't have to perform. Take up some kind of Latin dance class. It's Ok, they have to touch you there. Its compulsory. The instructor will make them do it. Good luck.

 

[Stavrogin]

Thank you for the advice. But I'd like to know if you thought enough women will be turned off by a sexually anemic 27-year-old to justify my anxiety. I used to think virginity would be an asset for me because it would tell women that they could trust me to be different than the sedution artists who tricked them into one-night-stands. Now I'm worried that they'll think I'm a psychotic loner!

 

[CoolRunning]

Hey Stavrogin. I seem to be in the same situation as you (see my signature). Maybe I'm worse, maybe better. Who knows. All I know is I'm having trouble even starting conversations with girls right now. I too am a virgin, of course. It's not causing me too much stress because I've mentally blocked it out until I can get past the hurdle of even talking to girls.

Here is my latest thread:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93952

Read it and maybe you will have some advice, since you understand where I'm coming from? Maybe we can help each other

 

[Stormer]

A lot of women don't want the trustworthy, realionship seeking, lets stay home and talk about how the world revolves kind of guy (oh he's so smart), actualy its puts them right off, trying to portray this type of personality makes you look needy and dependent, they sum you up as easy and BORING, women often look for a MAN for excitment to take them away from their mundane daily grind before they look for a pet. Learn to not teach them how things work, trust me they dont care(have you ever heard a chick say "I dont care how it works I just want it to work"?), sometmes they will talk about mechanics themselves, hold your frame dont tell them it's only a test of your reactions.

Lastly,
Have your own life dude, invite women to join and they will.

 

[ElChoclo]

Stavrogin, non-disclosure is best. You are not a car in a dealership. Low mileage is not a drawcard, at least not for a man.

Chances are, your first night of passion will be with someone who has been with a series of losers with PE, (theres that word again). It won't be like a driving test with a clipboard. It will probably be in the dark so she won't be scrutinizing your appearance at that point. Incompetence will be expected.

Your thinking shows some very illogical patterns. In your world men would haughtily announce their purity to the supposedly perfect partner and she would not only accept their claimed virginity but relish the opportunity to take it away.

Unfortunately, sex is like the dance class. The woman does not want the man who does not know how to lead. If the man cannot lead, the dance cannot take place.

 

[Robbie]

Originally posted by Stavrogin
Thank you for the advice. But I'd like to know if you thought enough women will be turned off by a sexually anemic 27-year-old to justify my anxiety. I used to think virginity would be an asset for me because it would tell women that they could trust me to be different than the sedution artists who tricked them into one-night-stands. Now I'm worried that they'll think I'm a psychotic loner!

I feel like that might be a turn off to women, but how the hell are they gonna know? It's not like you've got horns growing out of your forehead.

I used to think that players, pick up artists, seduction artists, don juans - whatever you want to call them - could trick women into one night stands. There is nothing short of slipping something into a drink that a man can do to trick a woman into sex. Women have sex when they want to have sex with whom they want to have sex. They are really the ones in control. Only criminals challenge women's authority on this. Guys who say they can seduce are basically trying to make it more likely that women choose to have sex with them. Disagree? Do you think the hot girl getting hit on at the bar goes to webpages like this to learn how to attract men? Do you think she'll pay another woman three thousand dollars to come hang out with her for a weekend and coach her through several awkward interactions with men? No, men do that stuff because they're all peacocking for the hot girl's attention. She picks.

Women are - so - in control of this situation. They aren't worried about you being some kind of player or breaking their hearts. If you try convincing them that you are harmless, you might come off as boring or soft. I know that I have come across that way many times before receiving some severe, yet honest, criticism from people I trust.

But sometimes you hear a woman complain about some "jerk" that took advantage of her; what's that all about? She knew what she was getting into. Stormer did a good job describing the mentality. She knew she was just being used for sex and that the dude was a player, but she's just having trouble coming to terms with the fact that the guy was a player. It's not that she was blind-sided by this dude that leaves her frustrated and crying on your shoulder. It's the fact that she cannot change the guy. Believe me, she'll spend several months trying to change this guy if there's something she likes about him. She'll spend months trying to get with the player to no avail, while you hand her tissues, eat low-fat yogurt and cry with her. Dude, I've totally been the emotional tampon before. That's something you got to get out of unless you have no intention of being more than friends with a lady.

I guess it all depends what the woman is looking for. Most young women are not looking for a sweater-wearing, flower and teddy bear type. They're not looking for a guy who is easy to win over. They don't want what Dr. Phil, Oprah, and your mom tell you they're looking for. They just want a man. Older women might compromise more than younger women. They might settle down a little faster. Just an observation.

ElChoclo is right on! I remember taking a dance class and not knowing my left foot from my right. I was getting stuck dancing with all of the cows and grandmas while this short, fat ugly dude with his pants pulled up to his neck got his pick of women! He knew how to dance! He knew how to lead a women and they all flocked to him. He had this attitude like he was a lot taller, thinner, and handsomer than he actually was. Confidence will draw women's attention. Real confidence, I mean, that kind that stems from know-how. Might not keep it, but it will work wonders. If you don't have any know-how then you have to sort of keep that a secret and work with what you have.

There are a ton of psychotic loners who get laid. Don't worry about that part so much. Don't worry about tricks, tips, and games. The more friends you have and the more chances you take, asking women out, the more opportunities you'll have to date and do other stuff with them. Take things one at a time.

What it will come down to is you'll eventually stop caring so much about everything. One day, you'll decide you like one of the girls in your group, or perhaps a friend of a friend, and you'll just ask her out or make a move. None of us can tell you the precise steps you'll take to get there. The more you do to better your social situation, the faster you'll get there.

 

[redsaber9]

Originally posted by racerX
Your 27 years old. Forget about dating any chick w/ a kid. There are hundreds of thousands of single babes w/o kids age 20-27 that you can pursue. Dont waste your time. Read the DJ bible. Be positive. Develope hobbies. Dont act needy. Dont act desperate. Be social. Hit the gym. Improve your look/style/clothes/haircut.

Girls w/ kids...yuck

Who needs that!? That's what April 15th is for

 

[MacAvoy]

Now that everyone's made it perfectly clear to stay clear of the one girl you've held hands with. Time to start focussing on making progress for yourself. Remember baby steps.

I would recommend going through Bootcamp. It takes you from the beginning, learning to make eye contact and building up from there. Continue flipping through the bible as well.

 

[dr_devious]

Don't tell them your a virgin Stav, they cant tell. By the time they can even tell youre inexperienced the deed will be over, and you wont be a virgin any more!
Also, dont put yourself down as being "sexually aneamic". As someone once said "if a man thinks he can or cant, he is probably right". If you think this way about yourself then women will pick these vibes up and think the same.

 

[legolas]

Ya dude, you should go to your nearest sporting goods store and buy yourself an Olympic 300 lb weight set (that is if you're too shy to go to the gym) ALso go and buy a workout book (I like Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline) and get those muscles moving. That will give you enough male juice (testosterone) to get over your shyness.

 

[Warlord]

*****es come and go, but you're with your mind and body forever till death. Work out, get healthy, go through school, have a career, and you will reach life's potentials.

Yeah and about single women with kids. That's alright in my books as long as she's 1. Making good money 2. The ex husband is dead 3. Just one kid.

Too many chumps out there think they're a pimp when they land a single mom, lol are they in for a surprise. Like that 40 year old virgin movie, he thinks he's daddy mac... he's just being used from a cynical point of view.

 

[Stavrogin]

Actually, I've been lifting weights for almost half my life now. My hormones are crazier than they were when I was in puberty. Virginity is going to turn me into a schizophrenic.

As for women with kids, I would rather go out with someone who doesn't have them, but I am 27, and it seems a lot of women in my age group, especially the pretty ones, have at least one kid. As I get older, I will encounter even more women with kids. So I've just accepted that a kid or two will be part of the package.