27 and 3 women - another chancer

[Rphobe]

POST part #1 - THE STORY THUS FAR

Ok, this post has to include some personal info that may be painful for others to read but I have to do it to give you the background. I'm posting this post because its important that others read it so they do NOT MAKE my mistakes, I especially want to post this so older guys (dads with kids) do not NEGLECT their boys growing up, if you see them having social problems or not interacting with girls or spending too much time with video games or something else instead of having a normal social life... INTERVENE, be ever watchful for social anxiety and social disinterest, its a killer! People need other people, even loners... they need companionship and need to feel loved. *****slap them silly out of their stupor please make sure they get out there. My dad was a workaholic and did nothing, even though he knew I had no girls and "wasnt interested", he couldn't fathom why and it just didn't get to him that I had severe depression / anxiety or phobia, same with my mother. They didn't "get it" even after my suicide attempts, they let me stew thinking I'd "Get it" sooner or later. They didn't know I had to FACE MY FEARS and get me out their eroding the fear an anxiety walls that had built up that were a major part in fueling my suicidality.

I'm at about the same spot he was (chancer guy I read about) except I didn't have "nothing" (no women at all straight, but its been almost as bad) but I am definitely worse off financially, although I do get social assistance now (only been able to get it for one year). I had lucky breaks, the only bit thats worse is the extreme suicidality and not having worked at all (except for maybe 6 mo's). Part of the reason I pushed people away is because I was so suicidal, I pushed all my few remaining friends away due to my sense of 'morality' from my fundy christian upbringing (which I finally rejected totally and completley from my system at 23).

The story minus a lot of the details: ****ed up religious upbringing, parents were workaholics (absent 90% of the time) was overweight, teased heavily, had social anxiety, made major suicide attempt at 17, ****ed up my schooling but they gave me a "Free" highschool diploma. Was about to totally self-annihilate because of religious, existential, self image, and girl issues, then miraculously I found a woman, I flirted with and found a 34 year old woman playing a video game online at 17, we talked and played for a few months then she gave me her number, we exchanged pics, I went down, banged her the first night, (she told me I gave her the best head she's ever had, she crushed my god damn head between her legs ugh, but man did was I on cloud nine, I read about how to perform cunningulus before I went down, and BOOM get it right the first time) continued to bang her for 2 years (long distance relationship) saw her every other weekend for 2 years, finished up my last bit of highschool at home.

I had support and motivation finally feeling loved, having a girl, and getting pretty regular sex everything was going ok... then it collapsed just before I turned 20, in that 2 year relationship I gained 40 lbs from 190 to 230 and I was 5'11, and she dumped me, also I let some of my social phobia slip out, one day she wanted to go swimming at a public pool, I couldn't bring myself to go in there, my fear/anxiety was skyhigh, obviously I still had social phobia

Next 2 (20 to 22) years I am totally isolated, devestated, because I had the worst self-esteem/confidence after havin been dumped, still struggling with religion and the point of existence if you lose it all at death anyway, and had put on more weight. All I do is sleep, surf the net, eat and play video games, very close to commiting suicide, never leave the house at all. Parents sit by and watch this because they are afraid that I will attempt again if they say ANYTHING, they are walking on eggshells, they just sit and watch me rot in the house. DO NOT BE THESE PARENTS, my key problems were a anxiety about what to do in the future and my lack of ability to socialize and lack of confidence/"hope" that I had the ability to acquire the love I needed and it started snowballing over time, (it should have started in highschool) my grandmother told them flat out "the boy needs to be loved", and I was like wholly **** she saw right into me, and her intuition was spot on.

I get a job for 3 months during the summer at 22, I am happy because at least I'm doing something I love, then my boss starts ripping off customers and trying to gouge me and pay me less (I'd work 2 hours on something and he'd want to pay me for one), after I lose my job back and I fall back nto depression again for another 2 years. Although I breifly work again at a walmart like store for 3 months again during the summer when I was 24, depressing as **** and dusty as hell, could't breath. I was accused of stealing and my boss was an *******, I quit.

I meet a woman on a suicide newsgroup who lives in the states.. I go down and stay a month with her and f'ck her brains out, but she's in just as bad a shape, no job (was behind a months rent), she's 38 years old, broken up with her husband and the kicker? She's above average hot, not fat, in good shape, yet she's a total screw-up like myself. I couldn't be with her because she was me in the future if I don't change, not only that I felt guilty for staying with her and using her foodstamps to eat.

Sex was ok but there was no love,she was so cold and kinda unloving, she would never initiate, she would never look happy, even though it felt good to be close to someone again she was distant and I felt alone yet I was getting LAID AND I WAS JUST AS UNHAPPY - PAY ATTENTION, YOU CAN GET LAID . BE WITH A WOMAN, AND STILL FEEL JUST AS ALONE! She was obsessed with her computer stuff instead of getting a life and her stuff together, she'd waste time messing around maintaining a pro-choice suicide website and spending way too much time helping and counselling others.

She has a "mother / nursing" instinct she got from when she worked as a nurse and couldn't keep it in check. After she had told me to come down she was looking like she was destroying herself again so I had to leave, back to depression again for another 3 straight years, living, jobless with parents. at 25 I finally start losing the weight I had put on at 20 but would struggle with it coming back a bit.

 

[Rphobe]

Part #2

Just before my 27th birthday this year, I lose a tone of weight (down to 190 again, then I lose another 30 lbs and now I'm 160 ****ing lbs and look better then I have in my entire life! I weighed around 190+ most of my life), I'm starting to ride a wave, I'm taking classes to see if I have what it takes to enter university, I'm basically catching up on the last year or two of highschool, checking my marks, and deciding from there, still massively depressed but... anyway. I had left an online dating profile online (since it was an outlet for my loneliness when I had the $$$) and some really hot chicks started messaging me from other places over the US, and I just couldn't believe my eyes, I knew I could attract average to decent girls and have sex with them, but not face to face, online I could develop rapport with certain girls but it was always was some chick way far away from me (I live in a small hick down of 15,000 2 hours away from any major city) and I had little money as it was to go and get some pvssy and I had no transport so I had to take the bus/train to get there.

Either way I meet this hot chick and she drives up to see me (on her own money!) even after I tell her my situation (I was like wtf?)... she's just as f'd up as me, except a little less, she has no probs socializing but she can't keep a boyfriend to save her life... she wakes me up out of my death stupor I've been in most of my life, she leaves and goes back and finds a new boyfriend. I new before she came up it would just be a lay and then she'd be going home.

But... I finally this past October (2005) I felt loved the way I needed for the first time in my life, she was just like me and just as f'd up as me and I finally felt really happy and god damn motivated for the first time in my life, I felt loved finally, really, truly, for just a brief moment, I found a sensation that made me want to do whatever I had to do to continue to live. I wake up from my suicidal death trance and consider living again, it feels pretty scary but I'm on starting on my way. You see I had lost any sense of motivation or hope for the future, nothing did it for me, there was nothing I valued, even sex and love felt CHEAP like people placed way too much value on it, like it was overblown (and to a degree it is when you place TOO much value on it and can't live by yourself, etc), but anyway I had finally found something that fueled my will to live somewhat for a brief period of time.

Do I regret being alone, jobless and suicidal? It's a tough thing, yes and no, yes in that I have no money and making money for retirement will be that much harder, no in that I had early retirement already with 7 years all to myself and all those hours to do what I wanted to do and not have some capitalist chump or the state control my time.

I would be more regretful if I hadn't had my parents support, and the support of my doctor and finally recieving disability this year (I didn't know I could recieve it, even though my mother was told I could when I got diagnosed at 19, another ****ing stupid parent move, she knew about it but was afraid "I'd never get a job"). But I dont think guys should NOT beat themselves up and focus on regretting what they ended up doing to themselves.

Being alone gives you those years to meditate and mature much more rapidly and quickly in some areas then most people will ever do in their ENTIRE LIVES. I've read so bloody much **** and learned a great deal a hell of a lot about myself and other people just having all this free time to think and learn. When you are alone there is so much **** you get to AVOID that other people have to deal with so its a trade off, i.e. breaksup, divorces, being in a job you hate, etc, etc. The key thing is, you can't change the past, so don't stare at it, look forward and move forward.

If you think you got it bad, just remember all those less fortunate, you have a healthy body, a working c*ck and YEARS left ahead of you to get it together, many people never even live to have such opportunities or get ****ed from the outset.

Will I make it?? I have no idea, but I'm not hung up beating myself over it. What happened to me cannot be changed the circumstances and the biology I was given would have reacted the same way 1,000 times played out the same way.

"Get busy living, or get busy dying" - The shawshank redemption.

 

[Rphobe]

Part # 3 - I get some super "Bursts" of momentum a bit

I got super motivated and started the first week of boot camp in january I lost steam a little bit because I have to focus on doing my schoolwork as well and that takes up****loads of time... but the important thing I learned was:

The more I said JUST hello to people the easier it got, and my social anxiety started eroding, it CAN COME BACK though if you don't to go out and perform the exercise over and over, I recommend bootcamp at least the fist two weeks for people who have social phobia**** it really helps.

I started being able to see peoples body language in a whole new way, who looked approachable, who didn't, because I had never really bothered my whole life to interact with others besides those I knew. I went out got laid the first week January 2006, I had 2 dates with two girls I met off an online site, both single moms, the first one we couldn't even talk so it ended (she was ugly anyway). The next one, we hit it off well enough to get along and have sex, and it was good sex, she was porky but if she lost it she'd be hot so I'm not complaining.

So I'm forcing myself to create opportunities to make me happy but it is difficult, despite the social anxiety and agoraphobia, I still have major social skills deficits and its pretty hit or miss if I'll be able to talk to someone or not face to face, but I have NO FEAR of dating girls online or meeting them, I'm more just not confident in developing rapport and socializing face to face in other settings, other then one on one dates. I dont think I can attract a girl that way just yet, need to practice.

It just sucks that there is only like 20 girls online in my town so I have to figure out how to approach others in my small town and I NEED SUGGESTIONS, I was thinking of going to the bar BUT its a small town theres only like one or two bars. I'm wondering if I shouldn't get more experience going down to the city and practice, then come back up to my small town and do it.

But the key thing is, I can now get out, its matter of learning how to talk to girls and keeping conversation going to develop attraction, I picked easy targets that I felt confident where I could get laid (single moms, the one I ****ed is totally another messed up one, broke, 2 kids, living with parents).

Keeping me getting laid is keeping my momentum in other things going, so help me out...

Also... given the sistuation, I do get $960 a month roughly (cdn) do you think I could swing a low rank or fbuddy in my state? Or even though if I still live with my parents?

I'm seriously thinking about trying to do so and just NOT CARING about the crappy point I am at in my life and going out getting laid and learning to get them.

If you have any other suggestions go ahead and post.

 

[ElChoclo]

My advice;


1 Stay on medication at all times. Do not drink any alcohol.

2 Stay close with your parents. Try and find a sport or hobby in common with your father and do it together. If none, then try and take one up. Fishing can be cheap in some forms.

3 Read motivation books if you haven't already.

4 Jog regularly, 2 to 3 times a week.

5 Get access as cheaply as possible to weight training equipment, maybe buy some secondhand and a book on how to use it.

6 Take up public speaking by joining a group which does this. Join some clubs.

7 If you can get a part time job and keep most of your pension. Then do so. Maybe something which requires some degree of training but not overly stressful intellectual activity. This type of job is better than the no skills type which you have tried. A government job would be good.

8 Contrary to the usual theories of this forum you should work on establishing as many friendships with women your own age as possible. Don't try and bed them, but if it happens fine. Try and avoid the nurturing older women types you have found that to be way to comfortable.

9 Keep up the studies on attracting women, but make that additional to 8. In other words you can do approaches but practise being with girls your own age or younger on just a friendly basis. This will help you get more comfortable for your field work. Like hitting a bag before you move on to a street fight.

 

[GirlCrazy]

6 Take up public speaking by joining a group which does this. Join some clubs.

I had a lot of social anxiety when I was younger, but the funny thing was that I felt totally comfortable with public speaking and around crowds. The larger the crowd, the easier it was for me. One on one, and I just froze up. I worked with some amazing pickup artists, guys who had no trouble with women, who were scared sh1tless of the big presentations that I had no problem with.

So it was an annoying problem to have, and I wonder if public speaking has any bearing on social anxiety disorders in general. When you're speaking to a crowd, there's a kind of disconnect that you don't get one on one.

An audience to me is just a "thing". I get the same emotional state as if I were talking to the TV set or something - it just doesn't register, even when they laugh at my jokes, or feel a real connection to what I'm saying.

Even now, when I'm one on one, it's some kind of switch that I have to "turn on" when I go into "social mode". It's like some little voice at the back of my mind, telling me what's expected of me socially in whatever situation I find myself in. Smile, introduce myself, shake hands, say something witty, flirt, etc.

Fast forward 15 years or so, and now I'm completely comfortable in any social situation, but it still feels like an act. The more people I talk to about this, the more I'm convinced it's an act for just about *everyone*.

 

[Rphobe]

Originally posted by GirlCrazy
I had a lot of social anxiety when I was younger, but the funny thing was that I felt totally comfortable with public speaking and around crowds. The larger the crowd, the easier it was for me. One on one, and I just froze up. I worked with some amazing pickup artists, guys who had no trouble with women, who were scared sh1tless of the big presentations that I had no problem with.

So it was an annoying problem to have, and I wonder if public speaking has any bearing on social anxiety disorders in general. When you're speaking to a crowd, there's a kind of disconnect that you don't get one on one.

An audience to me is just a "thing". I get the same emotional state as if I were talking to the TV set or something - it just doesn't register, even when they laugh at my jokes, or feel a real connection to what I'm saying.

Even now, when I'm one on one, it's some kind of switch that I have to "turn on" when I go into "social mode". It's like some little voice at the back of my mind, telling me what's expected of me socially in whatever situation I find myself in. Smile, introduce myself, shake hands, say something witty, flirt, etc.

Fast forward 15 years or so, and now I'm completely comfortable in any social situation, but it still feels like an act. The more people I talk to about this, the more I'm convinced it's an act for just about *everyone*.

Girl crazy is correct, I could do public speaking if I had to, I was seriously thinking about going around to schools and giving talks on bullying because it really re-inforced a lot of negative bs that I'm still dealing with obviously.

My big problems are conversation, lack of shared interests (I've been a shut in all my life) video games, and surfing the net and gobbling up everything I can read, the net is addictive because its just one huge knowledge base, entertainment, curiosity, etc, 24/7 access, one page leads to another and another add infinitum of interesting things.

But most importantly I wanted kids like myself not to give in to complete 100% despair, once you do that and you can never get your head out of it and you become entranced by it, it will eat you alive.

 

[Rphobe]

Originally posted by ElChoclo
My advice;


1 Stay on medication at all times. Do not drink any alcohol.

2 Stay close with your parents. Try and find a sport or hobby in common with your father and do it together. If none, then try and take one up. Fishing can be cheap in some forms.

3 Read motivation books if you haven't already.

4 Jog regularly, 2 to 3 times a week.

5 Get access as cheaply as possible to weight training equipment, maybe buy some secondhand and a book on how to use it.

6 Take up public speaking by joining a group which does this. Join some clubs.

7 If you can get a part time job and keep most of your pension. Then do so. Maybe something which requires some degree of training but not overly stressful intellectual activity. This type of job is better than the no skills type which you have tried. A government job would be good.

8 Contrary to the usual theories of this forum you should work on establishing as many friendships with women your own age as possible. Don't try and bed them, but if it happens fine. Try and avoid the nurturing older women types you have found that to be way to comfortable.

9 Keep up the studies on attracting women, but make that additional to 8. In other words you can do approaches but practise being with girls your own age or younger on just a friendly basis. This will help you get more comfortable for your field work. Like hitting a bag before you move on to a street fight.

1. I've tried meds they do not work. (note: that I didn't try them for very long, but some we thought upped my appetite and I startedgaining weight) I haven't been or tried meds for quite a long time, probably at least 3 years or more. The only thing that works (lately) is when people hug me, you see I had finally gotten to the point where I no longer felt any regret and had resigned myself to not getting a girl and just focusing on school and attempting to live a life, then that girl comes up this october and TOTALLY rips down the stone walls I had layed over my nerves, ever since she left I've had my "lonelyness instincts" turn on completely, I've never ever truly felt alone, I'm usually easily able to handle it. I'd never felt like this, and last few months have been rough, more suicidal then I have ever been. I'll get body wide feelings that will not go away for days, and I have to ask my mother to give me brief hugs now and again just to help tone it down. Meds do not work...

2. I dont have much of a choice really, the only way I can save money "is behind the govs back" actually. If I have over $5000 in any savings account or stocks or anything they cut me off, sad isn't it?? the people who need to save and invest (the disabled) the most are prevented from doing so! Nice canadian government policy there for ya.

Next my dad works 10-12 hour days 7 days a week, impossible to share anything with the man, he's from another culture entirely (greek) grew up totally poor, moved to the US/canada when he was in his late teens maybe very early 20's. Even if he could, he's too old and he's worked too hard at his own business, this is why I said my parents were never around: They live and breath the restaurant they run, it ate up their social lives. It still continues to do so.

3. I have read stuff that can be motivating, not sure if it will do a lot.

4. Jogging? How do you think I lost 40 lbs? hah, Over the last 6 months I lost 40 lbs pretty much, I lost the first 12 in the first two months, then it took few more to lose the last 18, I walked hours a day everday 7 days a week (since I'm nice and jobless, got to love the free time!)

5. I will try to find some

6. I doubt we'll have any public speaking clubs in small town of only 15K people

7. Well what kind of job could I get (you live in canada?) with highschool diploma and a mix a few computer shop jobs and working as a stockboy?

8. I will try to find women but it will be difficult, I dont speak a lot, I am highly introverted so it looks like I dont got a lot of personality, I do try though hahah. Its just expanding my horizons so that I do have stuff to talk about that wont bore them to death.

9. Well I will try but right now I'm kinda stuck. I hear people talking about "mystery" and DYD, etc attracting women, etc, they basically say be funny, confident, have a personality, have your life together... I'll probably have to end up using some kind of scripts for a bit.

Hard part will be being funny when conversation alone is difficult to keep going, I can be goofy/weird (i.e. stuff I think is funny). Next my natural personality has been pretty much muted by depression and almost 7 years of complete isolation from the outside world and shut in time and not interacting with people in general

Lastly I left out what I had been diagnosed with.... Asperger's

 

[ElChoclo]

I went to a funeral of a young guy maybe aged 23 recently. East European background. Wealthy family, best schools, reasonable looks, law undergraduate at A grade university, charming witty loved by everyone. Last year had studied in France. Killed himself because he had chronic depression. A lot of people saying nice things, upset parents old school chums etc.

Afterwards I said to a friend of mine. Wouldn't it have been better if they had this get together as a party when he was still alive. The thing which you always seem to hear is that there were no signs of trouble. But of course there is always an established history of problems, but a lack of parent son communication.

What do we learn from this? This guy had it all. To get into that university he had to be in the top 1 to 2% of the state in his high school exams. He had a fun lifestyle with dough to spare. But biochemicals got the better of him. Take note how many times you change your mind about something. Suicide doesn't give you the option to change your mind, it hurts a lot of people, and as an individual you don't have the right to cause that much suffering to others by your own errors. Also, as you may have gathered, if someone like this who has everything, thinks he has to check out early, then clearly you can be smart but still think very defectively. So ditch the defective thinking.

I know a 30 year old guy who worked in a job similar to yours for K mart. His father paid out big time for him to do an elite graphics arts course. Now he works in that area. He's no star now, but he gets steady work and because there is some training involved its not a basement level job.

You should think about your father's life. He had a lot of get up and go. If you didn't get it genetically maybe you can get it by modelling your behaviour on his. You could work in the family restaurant off the books, if you aren't already. An hour spent helping at the restaurant beats an hour of internet crap.

 

[Rphobe]

Originally posted by ElChoclo
Afterwards I said to a friend of mine. Wouldn't it have been better if they had this get together as a party when he was still alive. The thing which you always seem to hear is that there were no signs of trouble. But of course there is always an established history of problems, but a lack of parent son communication.

Well this is exactly the problem in our modern capitalist society both parents are usually working and it sucks up the majority of their time, then the parents will come home and binge on entertainment or be up to their ears in taking care of stuff. While I am all for "equal rights" for women, etc, I think not having a full time parent to raise children can be enormously detrimental, now kids are raised by the state schools, babysitters and daycare. Small wonder why so many kids turned out so messed up.

What do we learn from this? This guy had it all. To get into that university he had to be in the top 1 to 2% of the state in his high school exams. He had a fun lifestyle with dough to spare. But biochemicals got the better of him. Take note how many times you change your mind about something. Suicide doesn't give you the option to change your mind, it hurts a lot of people, and as an individual you don't have the right to cause that much suffering to others by your own errors. Also, as you may have gathered, if someone like this who has everything, thinks he has to check out early, then clearly you can be smart but still think very defectively. So ditch the defective thinking.

Yeah ditching the defective thinking is only part of it though, its the negative feedback / internal vibes, you can't get rid of and have to live with daily, that other people can see or detect in your body language that repels them, i try to be aware of what I'm projecting but it can be difficult. When I'm sitting down to do my schoolwork it can be demotivating and depressing.

But ultimately yes my thinking is defective to a degree, it keeps me from going ou even to get a job. I'll be so indecisive that I'll stew forever on it. At this point I'm wondering if I should just stick to school hardcore or get a job and **** it, since the courses I'm doing is so mentally draining.

You should think about your father's life. He had a lot of get up and go. If you didn't get it genetically maybe you can get it by modelling your behaviour on his. You could work in the family restaurant off the books, if you aren't already. An hour spent helping at the restaurant beats an hour of internet crap.

I've thought about working at the restaurant, but they have too many people as is, and already doing favors for extended family members, my sister and cousin both work there and they have enough cooks and dishwashers.

My real problem is association with other people, see other people LIKE to be around other people, me its the exact opposite I get bored, anxious and basically don't say anything around other people. Problem is I'm an addict to my comfort zone and I need to break it, I'll be sitting with people and I'll think to myself "I could be at home surfing the net, playing video games, etc", you see I try to keep my discomfort at a minimum so I don't get to the point where I can just reach over and wack myself. This is a complicated issue... which I will go into details further.

At 17 when I made that suicide attempt, the thing is I broke my psychology permanently, the "instincts" that keep people aware of self-harm (through neglect, i.e. not going to your job, not making money, pointing a gun to your head, etc) got totally shut down after that attempt, once I crossed "the ultimate fear of death barrier" because I thought this was it, I was going to die, and then I made that decision and crossed the line and my psychology was forever changed after that. I'll have feelings so intense I'll can go weeks and months doing nothing day in and day out because they are so intense and they can be months long.

I probably project a vibe that I'm not enjoying myself and it's difficult because my personality is pretty flat and not outgoing, I dont have a lot to say about anything outside of my narrow interests, I dont spontaneously talk about stuff in the environment my mind is so inwardly directed (thinking) rather then outwordly directed (looking for stuff to act/talk about).

I have to learn to socialize like you would learn how to play the piano, it doesn't come naturally. Right now I have no friends at all, except the few ex-lay girls, I keep in contact with but we dont do anything together really.

My real problem is that I don't know how to go about building up a social circle again, I have no clue since around 17 when I was pulled out of school, I had no friends up until now and still don't. I missed out on critical periods of socialization in highschool and afterwards. Also the jobs I took on were sociaization that was required and business like and related to my tasks/interests.