25 things I learned about marriage

countermart

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1. Her problems become your problems.
2. People change.
3. In love you fail to see poor character traits.
4. You get more sex when you are not married.
5. Hell hath no fury like a women scorned.
6. Life will throw things at you that you never imagined, and so may she.
7. She will put the children ahead of the relationship.
8. She will put the children’s interest as secondary to revenge on you.
9. The law favours her and she knows it.
10. Ultimately she will treat you like she treats her parents or the waiter.
11. You lose your power to easily walk away.
12. Once she has won you she will relax the effort to make herself look attractive etc.
13. Reciprocal altruism is something she will not understand.
14. She will not care that you are a nice guy, she will see her point of view primarily.
15. The provider, nurturer roles mean you will most likely be effectively working for her.
16. Going out of your way to please her will not make her happy.
17. You options and freedom with your life will reduce.
18. Children are the best contraceptive.
19. Look only at what she does, not what she says.
20. She will want more money, but expect you to make it spending less time in the office.
21. Children are much more difficult and a strain on the relationship that anyone will tell you.
22. You can end up loving your children much more that you love your wife.
23. Responsibilities increase and freedom to risk reduces.
24. Ultimately marriage is too bigger risks for the benefits, except for the lucky, or people that do not live that long.
25. Love is always conditional.

When it works it can be very, very good, but probably not as good as before you get married. These are admittedly some of the downsides to getting married for men. If you are still convinced you should get married note that society is wrong when it advocates the whole “Richer, poorer, sickness health etc” approach.

The better approach would be that two people will stay together while the partnership enhances their lives. It is far better to assume the marriage will fail and put together a prenuptial agreement. Ultimately, once you hit the Family Court you realise that marriage today is primarily a legal contract over the division of assets anyway.

Does this demonstrate a lack of commitment? No it demonstrates a realisation that the future is not predictable.

Society is wrong when it advocates that children should be a higher priority than the relationship. Many relationships breakdown because of the children focus, and this ultimately fails to benefit the children.

Society is wrong when it sees single people as failures.

Because love is a form of insanity, or at least partial incapacity for clear understanding, then it follows that under the law any marriage for love should be voidable under the law....yep, I’m only half joking!

I hope this helps some guys considering taking the plunge. If you are considering marriage I do not need to highlight the upsides...they don’t teach you at flying school what to do when the plane is flying straight and smooth in clear weather conditions, they teach you all about the downside and risks.

Good luck,

Countermart
 

Bible_Belt

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Most of that list is more about having kids than simply getting married. Children are a much bigger deal than marriage by itself.
 

DMSR76

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Good list. However, I have opposing opinion about statement #2.

Fundamentally, I don't think people change unless they make a concerted effort to do so. In other words, people may change for the better, but they rarely change for the worse. We perceive they've changed for the worse once we see them for who they really are. We often fail to see people for who they are while we're under the trance of infatuation.
 

Colossus

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Good practical list.

A few comments:

Marriage naturally assumes you forfeit many of the freedoms and leanings you have a single person. This is part of the definition of marriage---you give up certain freedoms to have a monogamous legal union with your chosen woman. The problem is most guys don't learn this until it's too late. Anyone who gets married, even the most ostensibly 'happy' couples gave up certain charms in lieu of a supposed permanent union with their spouse. I think a lot of people think it will be just like their dating life only they'll live together, which is a fairy tale.

Second, children change lives, period. I don't want to sound flippant not having kids of my own, but I don't have to be a father to see this.

I think the best approach is to stake down your principles and refuse to marry under modern terms. Basically what I mean is simply dont get married, or if you do want to marry, dont sign a marriage license. Just have a ceremony and a few witnesses and maybe sign something symbolic for the two of you...but NO MARRIAGE LICENSE! This is the document that essentially gurantees her half or more of your assets, and ensures the man gets a thorough butt-raping by the state government in the process. Yeah, you wont be "legally" married, but if you two are on the same page and you love each other it shouldn't fvcking matter.

Just my .02.
 

Don't always be the one putting yourself out for her. Don't always be the one putting all the effort and work into the relationship. Let her, and expect her, to treat you as well as you treat her, and to improve the quality of your life.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Slickster

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Another marriage sucks thread. :rolleyes:

90% of the guys out there are chumps and have no idea how to deal with women.

These chumps get married and it is a disaster for them.

These same people swear up and down that marriage ruined their lives, blah, blah, blah......

Time for these people to look at themselves and stop placing the blame on women and marriage.

If you were a chump before you got married then why would that change after.

Women and marriage didn't eff you over. You did.

Time for men to start being men instead a bunch of whiny b!tches!
 

davewe

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The OP's list wasn't whiny - it was pretty matter of fact. You may not accept what he says or might disagree about particular points on the list.

Folks on this forum who think that society's problems with marriage are just the fault of weak men are kind of delusional. It reminds me of the old joke about the guy who falls off the roof of a high rise. As he falls the people on each floor can hear him say, "It's OK so far, it's OK so far."


Slickster said:
Another marriage sucks thread. :rolleyes:

90% of the guys out there are chumps and have no idea how to deal with women.

These chumps get married and it is a disaster for them.

These same people swear up and down that marriage ruined their lives, blah, blah, blah......

Time for these people to look at themselves and stop placing the blame on women and marriage.

If you were a chump before you got married then why would that change after.

Women and marriage didn't eff you over. You did.

Time for men to start being men instead a bunch of whiny b!tches!
 

sodbuster

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Ever been married slickster? Or are you talking about what you want to believe? That a "superior man" will be totally able to control the relationship once she can get half. You let a few little things slide instead of giving her $200,000;thats the start. A prenup may slow her down,but you will be giving up some of your freedoms.
 

Julian

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fuk marriage
 
T

tj

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I look at Brad pitt, Clooney, Cruise ..rock stars.., Trump.

they all say the same thing. Marriage blows
 

Slickster

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Davewe and Sodbuster

I think the OP brings up some very valid points which I know are very true for many married men. The "whiny" comment wasn't directed at him but rather the masses of women hating and anti marriage posters on this forum.
My entire response was more directed at the theme of the forum regarding marriage and women these days. Sorry if any offence was taken.

I think I might post a new thread on this matter. I don't want to hijack the OP's as it does bring up some valid points for good discussion.

Peace.
 

countermart

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Slickster you are very welcome to your opinion and I would have been right in line with your view for about 6 years of my 12 year marriage. The first part was heaven on Earth, the last part was hell on Earth, similar to Ballie’s quote, “It’s easy to shame other guys after a mere year being married. I was married for over 20 years - the last 10 were hell.”

It is basically costing me millions of dollars and I have to fight regularly to keep access to my children through the courts, something thankfully I have managed to maintain so far. It is hugely stressful and time consuming!

Trader is correct in the quote below “marriage is a gamble” and having been through it I am not willing to take that gamble again. “Even if you do control the frame, the odds are still against you so it is imperative that you be picky and choose a girl of high character who can make the marriage work. And even then, marriage is still a gamble.”

I don’t hate women at all. I don’t even hate my ex who went from wonderful to terrible...I just want to get away from her.

I am back in a great LTR. But I have made it clear to this new girl that I will never put myself back in a position where a woman has control over my life legally, or in any other way. I have also told her that she can fight with me, disagree with me, but if she disrespects me, or if both our lives are not enhanced by the relationship then I am gone. She agrees with this.

My reason for posting is not to have a go at women or even marriage. It is to remind guys of the risk they are taking. Perhaps all our fathers should have taken us aside and given us this list. They are some of the things I had to learn the hard way. It is what I learnt, every guy will have a different experience. It is nothing more than me telling the guys that there are rips on the beach so be careful when swimming. We get warnings about this on the beach, but who warns us about marriage?

Was I an AFC in the marriage? I don’t believe so, she developed mental problems, including depression after the birth of our first child, never got better, and the rest was history. You see life throws you things that you never anticipate will happen. That, you cannot do anything about, no matter how hard you try to control the frame.

Am I complaining about my situation? I hope not. I have found a great girl to sleep and have fun with on a regular basis, I am bouncing back financially, and I am positive on the future.

I really like this site because it has helped me bounce back, and it tells you things that other guys have learnt from experience. It is a lot easier than going through it yourself, believe me.

I really hope things work out with your marriage, I really do. But a few years is a short time.

I think Western society needs to come up with another model different to the current marriage situation, a 50% failure rate is evidence of a model that does not work. You could probably add another 25% of people that are still married, will never get a divorce, but are basically unhappy.

At the very least guys should make sure they have legally binding pre-nups. The difficulty really resides with the situation with children, and that is complicated, and I do not have a ready answer for it.

You see it would all be very easy if you were dealing with a reasonable person, but in the majority of cases one person is not reasonable and hence the split.

Remember relationships are risky full stop, because it takes two to make a relationship, and only one to break it apart... those are not very good odds.

Countermart
 

catman

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My father wasnt an afc and he didnt raise me to be one either it was the way society changed and her friends that werent happy and *****ed about their afc husbands that caused my misfortune.Ever heard that saying that something must be in the water to cause all the divorces and or preganancys? People change is an understatement in my opinion and once that little bit of doubt creeps into your realionship pandoras box is opened up and is not easily shut depending on your sitution?? Not getting married is the only answer cause no one feels like they have the other person for life when your not married yet? And until you have been married-divorced you cant see this!! Lots of people trying to live by 1970s standards and unless you have a damn good job both people must work!!
 

Scaramouche

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Dear Countermart,
I could not argue with any of your points,having been married twice,I would not even marry a Rich Woman, I would say the only thing it has in its favour, is as a secure basis for raising a Family.....There are certainly some financial advantages in marriage,the pooling of income and sharing of chores,and yeah it is nice to know someone is home to have a chat with....I have a couple of boarders at the moment,they fulfill all these latter advantages,if they became difficult,the locks would be changed and their goods and chattels would be out on the Street,try that on the little Lady,and at the end of the day,I don't have to divide the assets with them..
That still leaves Children and yeah its possibly the only tangible footprint we leave on this Planet,but is it worth it?are you really sure they will look after you if you have a significant health problem?That's not how Western Society works these Days(Mennonites aside)....So if you must have Children make sure you have a Pre Nuptial Agreement drawn up by a Good Lawyer,the first thing your Spouse will do in Court is to insist she was coerced into signing it.
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

jophil28

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countermart said:
10. Ultimately she will treat you like she treats her parents or the waiter.

13. Reciprocal altruism is something she will not understand.

14. She will not care that you are a nice guy, she will see her point of view primarily.
I have been married twice,so I have some real experience in this game.

10. Ultimately she will treat YOU like her mother treated her Dad.
Take a peek though that window BEFORE you rent that tux.

13. Women reserve their altruism (kindness, goodwill , nuturing and caring) for children and other women . Most women will be very cautious about how they act towards others, BUT will have no problem in expecting you to accept poor treatment from them. In fact the whole concept of altuism is not applied by most wives in their marriages, or towards their husbands. Double standards abound with woman. They seem to have a belief that YOU, as their husband, do not deserve the same quality of respect,courtesy and consideration that they automatically extend to others.
Men appear to do the opposite by walking on eggs around their wives, avoiding even the tiniest possibility of offense.

14. THis point follows on from #13. Your wishes hopes, dreams aspirations and plans are irrelevant and will be seen as threatening to her, except when they align with her's.
Her POV is 'the way' and the realization of her wishes is seen (by her) as her entitlement. You are her husband primarily to be her 'goto' guy who exists to implement her wants and whims at the expense of your own.
Women have a deeply entrenched view that their husbands are their 'Personal Assistants'.

Look at her parents and see the warning signs.
 
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Nutz

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Notice the end game. Certainly explains a lot of what's wrong with chicks these days wrt relationships and the entitlement attitude... Anyway, it's still a funny compilation.


jophil28 said:
I have been married twice,so I have some real experience in this game.

10. Ultimately she will treat YOU like her mother treated her Dad.
Take a peek though that window BEFORE you rent that tux.

13. Women reserve their altruism (kindness, goodwill , nuturing and caring) for children and other women . Most women will be very cautious about how they act towards others, BUT will have no problem in expecting you to accept poor treatment from them. In fact the whole concept of altuism is not applied by most wives in their marriages, or towards their husbands. Double standards abound with woman. They seem to have a belief that YOU, as their husband, do not deserve the same quality of respect,courtesy and consideration that they automatically extend to others.
Men appear to do the opposite by walking on eggs around their wives, avoiding even the tiniest possibility of offense.

14. THis point follows on from #13. Your wishes hopes, dreams aspirations and plans are irrelevant and will be seen as threatening to her, except when they align with her's.
Her POV is 'the way' and the realization of her wishes is seen (by her) as her entitlement. You are her husband primarily to be her 'goto' guy who exists to implement her wants and whims at the expense of your own.
Women have a deeply entrenched view that their husbands are their 'Personal Assistants'.

Look at her parents and see the warning signs.
This is a grand slam of a post guys! Defninitely take notice. This is exactly what I experienced and see and hear every day from coworkers, friends, and relatives. It's a damn shame that's the defacto standard for marriage these days...
 

Hooligan Harry

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jophil28 said:
I have been married twice,so I have some real experience in this game.

10. Ultimately she will treat YOU like her mother treated her Dad.
Take a peek though that window BEFORE you rent that tux.

13. Women reserve their altruism (kindness, goodwill , nuturing and caring) for children and other women . Most women will be very cautious about how they act towards others, BUT will have no problem in expecting you to accept poor treatment from them. In fact the whole concept of altuism is not applied by most wives in their marriages, or towards their husbands. Double standards abound with woman. They seem to have a belief that YOU, as their husband, do not deserve the same quality of respect,courtesy and consideration that they automatically extend to others.
Men appear to do the opposite by walking on eggs around their wives, avoiding even the tiniest possibility of offense.

14. THis point follows on from #13. Your wishes hopes, dreams aspirations and plans are irrelevant and will be seen as threatening to her, except when they align with her's.
Her POV is 'the way' and the realization of her wishes is seen (by her) as her entitlement. You are her husband primarily to be her 'goto' guy who exists to implement her wants and whims at the expense of your own.
Women have a deeply entrenched view that their husbands are their 'Personal Assistants'.

Look at her parents and see the warning signs.
Absolute rubbish. The fact that two marriages have failed is no indication that the fault was with the woman Jophil. Maybe the fault lies with you too a tad.

10. My mother is the classic 1950's housewife. My father calls the shots and is his word has always been final, although my mother pulls the strings when she needs to. My sister is a princess who treats her husband like absolute ****. She is the polar opposite of my mother. Lazy, demanding, arrogant and spiteful. Her husband is nothing like my father, being weak and supplicating. Culture, which is affected by modern day feminism, has a larger role to play than the family home I am afraid. She is influenced more by her peers and environment than her parents. If we got married when we were 13, you may have a point. A stable home bodes well, but its not a guarantee.

13. Women treat each other like ****. Most cant remain friends for a long time. They fight, they steal boyfriends. They are competitive to the extreme. The greatest misogynists in the world are women. Im not quite sure what you base this on? Bad experience with one or two women who treated their friends with more respect than you? You must have been a doormat. Women have no sense of loyalty to their friends when they are into you. If they respect you they will not push you. I have never seen my mother argue with my father in public. It was always behind a closed door. You knew he was going to get it, but he would never cop a mouthful in front of anyone.

14. Surely her dreams and aspirations count for ****. If she does not complement you, but instead competes with you, the end result will be what you seemed to experience? This is why you cant marry for love. If you are going into marriage with opposite destinations in place how is it ever going to work? She either fits in, and by default you suit her, or you move along to a better prospect.

For me, #14 is the toughest thing for any man to find. No matter how many options you have, #14 has proven to be my biggest challenge.
 

jophil28

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Hooligan Harry said:
Absolute rubbish. The fact that two marriages have failed is no indication that the fault was with the woman Jophil. Maybe the fault lies with you too a tad.

10. My mother is the classic 1950's housewife. My father calls the shots and is his word has always been final, although my mother pulls the strings when she needs to. My sister is a princess who treats her husband like absolute ****. She is the polar opposite of my mother. Lazy, demanding, arrogant and spiteful. Her husband is nothing like my father, being weak and supplicating. Culture, which is affected by modern day feminism, has a larger role to play than the family home I am afraid. She is influenced more by her peers and environment than her parents. If we got married when we were 13, you may have a point. A stable home bodes well, but its not a guarantee.

13. Women treat each other like ****. Most cant remain friends for a long time. They fight, they steal boyfriends. They are competitive to the extreme. The greatest misogynists in the world are women. Im not quite sure what you base this on? Bad experience with one or two women who treated their friends with more respect than you? You must have been a doormat. Women have no sense of loyalty to their friends when they are into you. If they respect you they will not push you. I have never seen my mother argue with my father in public. It was always behind a closed door. You knew he was going to get it, but he would never cop a mouthful in front of anyone.

14. Surely her dreams and aspirations count for ****. If she does not complement you, but instead competes with you, the end result will be what you seemed to experience? This is why you cant marry for love. If you are going into marriage with opposite destinations in place how is it ever going to work? She either fits in, and by default you suit her, or you move along to a better prospect.

For me, #14 is the toughest thing for any man to find. No matter how many options you have, #14 has proven to be my biggest challenge.
You need more life experience before you really know what you think that you know.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

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