2020 has made me feel the pull to going full MGTOW (semi long)

[sangheilios]

I know with COVID this year has been wild for many throughout the world. I know of several people that have literally fallen apart this year, I don't think COVID is what caused it but instead was a final domino in a series of things they were dealing with and it just finally collapsed for them.

Speaking for myself, this has been a fantastic year for me. I've increased my income and have literally been able to double, almost triple, the amount of money I'm able to invest on a regular basis. Things that I have going for me now financial I could only have been day dreaming about a year ago. I'm no Elon Musk or Donald Trump, but I'm living in a place that is payed off and literally have thousands I can play with month to month. I live a very basic lifestyle so my cost of living is extremely low, so it's all just savings and investments.

While I did spend some time not as active earlier in the year because of the gyms being closed, I'm extremely fit now and taken it to a level I've probably never been at before, and this is coming from a 30 year old who has been doing this for years. All around I'm actually fairly happy and doing well in my life, though I've noticed I've been growing a bit bored with the routine I've been in, regardless of how extremely productive it has been.

Now, despite how well I've been doing I've honestly become rather discouraged and just completely disinterested from dating. I know I've posted about bad experiences I've had in the past on here before but this year has been an eye opener.

- Beginning of the year before COVID hit I remember hanging out with some friends at a bar and this girl that was sitting with us was bragging about how she could get any man to buy her a drink and went on about how picky she was, etc. This girl was literally a 4 lol, just more confirmation of what I've suspected from a lot of women today.
- Earlier this summer I had a former friend undergo some rather serious rape allegations that happened at some party. I never got into the full details, but I ended up finding out that the woman who said this more or less lied about the whole thing, as it was actually consensual, but the reasons for doing so were never really revealed.

I personally haven't asked out a woman since maybe last December or November, but during this year I've just reflected a ton about experiences I've had in the past. I remember posting a story in response to @BeExcellent about a woman I had approached at the gym who was repeatedly making eye contact, she rejected me and then I told her it was nice to meet her, to which she took it as an opening to continue approaching me and flirting. Of course I had asked her out again and she literally didn't get why she was being asked out. I also will see women that are around my age and/or those that are single and I'm just not interested in what is available to me. I don't even mean just physically, but the standard of their personal behavior and overall interaction with the world just feels off. I've tried going for women I wasn't attracted to but I'd deep down be questioning myself why I'm even bothering with them, which I think they picked up on.

I'd be completely open to a woman that is what I'm looking for but I honestly don't feel like I'm going to find it and that by continuing to look I'm just setting myself up for disappointment. The thing that concerns me is that I'll be 31 in a few months and that the older I get the fewer and fewer quality women will actually be available. Combine this with all of the experiences and observations I've had with all these bat **** crazy women I just don't know if I want to bother.

 

[Warpal]

Dont let your age trouble you finding women. If you look good you can get any age

 

[r4zorsharp]

Here's the thing: Stop assuming things about women.. That women at the gym was probably not even making eye contact with you for any reasons.. People SEE things because they have EYES.

Another thing: if you dont have enough experience with women to game them, don't bother trying. develop experience through dating or just social skills and then translate that over

GAME is not for everyone. Some people are better off meeting someone whenever they have the opportunity and settling down. Don't rush it if its not happening for you.

Going "MGTOW" (Just learned this term today.. ) is pathetic. You're a big baby and need to grow up man. Babies expect everything to happen for them or the way they want. if they dont get it,t hey cry.. Sorry if this is harsh, but im just being real.

 

[Who Dares Win]

That what happens when you have time to think and can compare realities, thats what happens when you asses what you need and what you dont.

Regarding the girls and the age thing, 31 is still ok, the problem is once you pass your 40s and cant get girls in the late 20s unless you are blessed with amazing genetics.

 

[SW15]

MGTOW is not good. You need a partnered physical release.

 

[sangheilios]

Here's the thing: Stop assuming things about women.. That women at the gym was probably not even making eye contact with you for any reasons.. People SEE things because they have EYES.

Another thing: if you dont have enough experience with women to game them, don't bother trying. develop experience through dating or just social skills and then translate that over

GAME is not for everyone. Some people are better off meeting someone whenever they have the opportunity and settling down. Don't rush it if its not happening for you.

Going "MGTOW" (Just learned this term today.. ) is pathetic. You're a big baby and need to grow up man. Babies expect everything to happen for them or the way they want. if they dont get it,t hey cry.. Sorry if this is harsh, but im just being real.

That gym story was from a while ago, but I think you missed the part where she was going out of her way to approach me and talk to me after I had asked her out. I'm not sure about you, but I don't see that as normal behavior for a woman to engage in with a man who she interacted with for a few minutes and then proceeded to walk away after he was rejected. To me it shows her missing some social cues, leading on, etc.

This post isn't really about an attention ***** but it was just an example I provided. The other one I mentioned was the false rape accusation, which is a very serious issue, and just crazy women in general. Based on what I've seen, there seems to be an abundance of that, at least based on where I am currently.

 

[sangheilios]

MGTOW is not good. You need a partnered physical release.

I agree, but I just don't see the benefit to expending energy on women given what is currently available and based upon what I've witnessed or experienced first hand. I don't want to get involved with some crazy woman who is going to place false rape accusations on me for who knows what, just on example.

 

[sangheilios]

Dont let your age trouble you finding women. If you look good you can get any age

It's not really my age that is the problem. I'm around 6'4" and would be one of the all around fittest people you'd see at the gym in general, relative to my age I'd be very rare in the general public. The problem is that at my age what is available to me is going to be limited, as most women aren't hanging around until 30 before they are looking to settle down into a relationship. 3 years ago, I would have been 27, I briefly dated a 19 year old but it didn't last because there was literally nothing we had in common and her level of maturity was just so much different from that of my own. Experiences like this would be the norm when there is a large age gap. Hell, I can think of several women I know of who are in their mid-late twenties who constantly take and post selfies and whose only hobby is social media lol.

Most of the women that I see that are somewhere around my age, actually single and don't act like they are still in a sorority are pretty rare to begin with but there is generally a reason why they are single.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You have already decided you lost before even playing and every bad experience further reinforces the incredibly negative belief system you seem to have instilled in your mind about women and dating.

Your negative mindset is what holds you back and nothing else.

 

[BMX]

MGTOW has its time and place for people. Not ALL people but you could benefit from it, sure. Starting late 2018, I went for it. I had work weeks where I was pulling up to 70 hours of nights. Other times it was long weekend days and weekday "evenings" ending at 10:30/11p.m., I kept getting sent to other countries for the job, then coming back home to travel solo to countries I WANTED to go to without some toxic feminist nagging and b!tching at me, and not even giving up any p-sleeve, hard pass...

I paid off debt that held me prisoner for almost 9.5 years with all of the money I was banking. Now that I am back stateside, I am comfortably buying a quality vehicle in a few days and will buy it outright this time around, no long-term payments (more debt). The first wave of lockdowns and staying off the plantation that entire time did help in getting me get to that point. After this purchase, maybe I will get back out in the field. Who knows, with all the predictable bullshet lockdowns coming back we'll all be shut-ins again.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You have literally zero experience, so your goal should be to get experience with any woman that will look at you twice and then you can worry about finding someone for the very long term. Even a BPD.

OP's issue is he is unwilling to evaluate and change the behaviors he exhibits with new women that literally send them running for the hills within 2 or 3 dates. Instead he comes up with rationalizations and justifications for how it's something wrong with the woman each time.

A person who is unwilling to look within and accept their own faults and then do something to change them cannot be helped. OP wil continue to struggle and get frustrated with women until he accepts that he needs to make significant changes in his behavior with them.

If every single woman you go out with shows interest until the 2nd or 3rd date when they ghost something is seriously wrong. I have repeatedly told OP that he needs to analyze and start changing his behavior but he is unwilling to accept that any of this is his fault.

In short, OP seems very narcissistic, constantly talking about how he is tall, in great shape, good looking and now is socking money away and that women should be interested.

OK, but they aren't. So clearly either OP's hypothesis is wrong and he isn't those things as much as he believes OR he is and women are initially interested but he does things that are so off-putting to women that they are willing to overlook all of those positives to run for the hills after a few dates, meaning there is a serious lack of social skills.

There is no way to rectify the two and there is certainly no way to rectify OPs opinion that he is at no fault for any of this. In fact OP bears 90% of the fault because it's his life and if he isn't getting the results he wants with women then it is up to him to take a long hard look in the mirror, determine the truth as to where he is failing because I am pretty confident there is likely a pattern he would see and then come up with a plan to fix it.

But you can't fix anything when you take no responsibility for your failures in an area of your life and continuously come up with a myriad of never ending excuses as to why you are not succeeding without ever doing anything about it.

 

[dk1990S111]

I’m not mgtow but right there with you man. Too many guys on this forum make accusations about what you are experiencing just to be right or feel like they are above you.

Everything you say applies to me as well. I’m 6’3”, in shape (would be more if gyms weren’t closed up until recently), I own a successful business, have my dream car, no drug habits, I am fine socializing. But the options I see around me are girls that think tattoos are a hobby, and a bunch of single moms, or just fat. And the ones that are attractive, that’s the only thing they have going for them in comparison to the life I have built for myself. I’m not an arrogant person at all but that’s just the truth.

 

[Medina]

The thing is... even when you find a great girl, that is not the end of the your problems

In fact it's just the beginning

I used to reject MGTOW because I saw it as cope. Men are not going there own way, they are being SENT their own way

But now I've changed my mind. I am successful with women. But I'm now starting to believe they are not worth the effort

They demand so much from men, and offer very little in return. Except for sex, which we can just pay for anyway

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I’m not mgtow but right there with you man. Too many guys on this forum make accusations about what you are experiencing just to be right or feel like they are above you.

Everything you say applies to me as well. I’m 6’3”, in shape (would be more if gyms weren’t closed up until recently), I own a successful business, have my dream car, no drug habits, I am fine socializing. But the options I see around me are girls that think tattoos are a hobby, and a bunch of single moms, or just fat. And the ones that are attractive, that’s the only thing they have going for them in comparison to the life I have built for myself. I’m not an arrogant person at all but that’s just the truth.

What I said is not based on this thread alone but on the whole of his threads he has posted. And I stand by what I said. There is no way in the world when the exact same thing happens to every single woman that a person comes in contact with that there isn't something OP is doing that is causing it.

That's just reality. Has nothing to do with me trying to do anything other than get him to view things the way they are so he can actually make changes that can benefit him and his interactions with women. If he is not going to take an honest look at things and make changes then he is probably going to continue along the path with his negative mindset which then only further acts to push women away. Nobody wants that sort of negativity around them.

It appears you have a pretty narrow group of women to choose from based on your criteria to start with and once you pass dating women of a certain age expecting you are going to come across a large percentage without kids is honestly pretty low.

So if you willingly narrow your group of acceptable women to that degree then of course it is going to br harder to find one that matches what you want. I am not saying you are wrong for wanting what you want, just that as you are dating women past a certain age you are narrowing your dating pool with every year that goes by significantly.

 

[SW15]

To a certain extent, many have become MGTOWs by default in 2020. 2020 is a jail-esque experience for unpartnered guys. Approaching in person has become more difficult. Apps were already a shiit show prior to pandemic, and are likely worse now. The importance of a good social circle has become magnified in 2020, but social circles in general have been weakening for the last 3 decades.

woman who is going to place false rape accusations on me

That's highly unlikely. I've never been concerned about false rape allegations. The Manosphere in general is overconcerned about it.

I used to reject MGTOW because I saw it as cope. Men are not going there own way, they are being SENT their own way

But now I've changed my mind. I am successful with women. But I'm now starting to believe they are not worth the effort

They demand so much from men, and offer very little in return. Except for sex, which we can just pay for anyway

I agree that men are being sent their own way. MGTOW doesn't happen overnight. MGTOW happens due to numerous, searing, painful rejections from women or failed relationships that ended in a really bad way.

Partnered sexual release is a key benefit of women. Outside of that, I think a lot of men would find it difficult to cite other reasons for the pursuance of women.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

To a certain extent, many have become MGTOWs by default in 2020. 2020 is a jail-esque experience for unpartnered guys. Approaching in person has become more difficult. Apps were already a shiit show prior to pandemic, and are likely worse now. The importance of a good social circle has become magnified in 2020, but social circles in general have been weakening for the last 3 decades.



That's highly unlikely. I've never been concerned about false rape allegations. The Manosphere in general is overconcerned about it.



I agree that men are being sent their own way. MGTOW doesn't happen overnight. MGTOW happens due to numerous, searing, painful rejections from women or failed relationships that ended in a really bad way.

Partnered sexual release is a key benefit of women. Outside of that, I think a lot of men would find it difficult to cite other reasons for the pursuance of women.

It all comes down to being able to accept the way things are and adjusting on the fly to stay relevant as things change.

Just like with old people who can't accept technology, change is scary for some people who are used to doing things a certain way and when that way no longer is effective or as effective they continue to do the same thing until they get mad and give up when all they really had to do is be willing to make some changes.

IMHO, the frustrated ones are the ones who are unwilling to accept changes or unwilling to adjust. So their options are to sit on the sidelines, continue to complain or start adjusting.

Maybe that ultimately is why I continue to do well, because I embrace change and in many ways am a chameleon who never is afraid to make changes when things I am doing don't work.

 

[DreamAgain]

OP, I've mostly moved on from this forum, but I'll give you some advice...

Look to change within. Dating isn't a job interview, your "credentials" will only get you so far. Become a better conversationalist, more interesting, more witty, and enjoyable to be around.

If you think your location or pool of available candidates is the problem, change locations to a more populous area.

 

[SW15]

OP.....If you think your location or pool of available candidates is the problem, change locations to a more populous area.

His metro area is plenty populous. It is a metro area of 1 million people. Quantity problems usually exist when you have a metro area of less than 150,000 in my experience. That metro is well over that threshold.

There are some unique circumstances in that metro. That metro has a large state university with an outsized presence within the area. Additionally, there are not a lot of great corporate headquarters or corporate jobs in that metro. A lot of the graduates of that university leave the metro after graduation because of this. It is a desirable place for retirement. So, you have a situation there where's a solid 18-mid 20s population (undergraduate and graduate students) and then a solid 60-65+ population. In between those zones becomes rather difficult.

He's 30, and he's been there since his mid to late 20s, so pre-pandemic, he could have attracted either undergrads or grads. Even at 30, that's not a stretch. Being 6'4" and muscular, a guy like that can post up on campus, approach women walking between classes, and get a decent response.

Outside of the university scene there, it gets more difficult despite the population quantity. It's still better than a lot of metros that have a 250,000 or less population, but it's far from ideal.

 

[Poonani Maker]

 

[sangheilios]

Some of the posters on here seemed to have missed that I didn't say that I was looking to give up permanently. What I said is that 2020/COVID has made me feel the pull to focusing on myself instead of trying to date. Given what is currently available and what I've experienced and witnessed I just don't really feel all that much desire to honestly put myself out there. I also did say that I'd be open to meeting a woman but given the current circumstances I just don't think it's all that realistic to expect to find it.

This has been a fantastic year for me, which I consider myself fortunate because I know a lot of people have had some serious issues this year (financially, emotionally, etc.).

His metro area is plenty populous. It is a metro area of 1 million people. Quantity problems usually exist when you have a metro area of less than 150,000 in my experience. That metro is well over that threshold.

There are some unique circumstances in that metro. That metro has a large state university with an outsized presence within the area. Additionally, there are not a lot of great corporate headquarters or corporate jobs in that metro. A lot of the graduates of that university leave the metro after graduation because of this. It is a desirable place for retirement. So, you have a situation there where's a solid 18-mid 20s population (undergraduate and graduate students) and then a solid 60-65+ population. In between those zones becomes rather difficult.

He's 30, and he's been there since his mid to late 20s, so pre-pandemic, he could have attracted either undergrads or grads. Even at 30, that's not a stretch. Being 6'4" and muscular, a guy like that can post up on campus, approach women walking between classes, and get a decent response.

Outside of the university scene there, it gets more difficult despite the population quantity. It's still better than a lot of metros that have a 250,000 or less population, but it's far from ideal.

You and I both of have discussed this in detail so everything here is true. There also is a tendency to settle down relatively young here, though I get the inclination that this is due to there not really being much of a dating pool beyond university age.

As I mentioned on a previous post on here, I did in fact date a girl who was in college, 19, when I was 27 but due to the maturity gap it naturally didn't last. I do know that there are in fact outliers but I feel that for where I'm at in life and what I focus on an experience like that would be more the norm for me if I was to pursue college age women.

Also, with COVID pretty much all forms of nightlife and social gatherings are either closed down entirely or modified in a way where people aren't approaching those outside of their group, which is something you touched on with your previous post.