Calling Her Out

[jhonny9546]

You need to judge every woman for her words and actions, and hold her responsible for both. I mean every single woman you come in contact with.
Let them see that you are judging them. This is counterintuitive. Instead of repelling women, you will be attracting them.

There is a way to judge while still being friendly, open, and gentlemanly. Dealing with women successfully always involves doing the counterintuitive thing.

"judge them and call them out on their bad behavior"
"call them out for their bad behavior and put them back in their place"

Those quotes are used in discussions about setting boundaries on this forum, I notice that many men in LTR often employ these phrases. However, it frequently appears to manifest as passive-aggressive behavior.

Consider these real-world examples where women are 'called out' and 'put back in their place':

Example 1: A woman repeatedly and deliberately forgets a shared responsibility. For instance, she often doesn't pack a lunch, knowing you rely on it for work and expect it to be prepared in advance for a busy morning. The response is to 'put her back in her place' by judging and criticizing her for the consistent lack of preparation, suggesting she doesn't take the task seriously. This is just one example, but I often see this type of 'correction' delivered by men in a passive-aggressive manner, often with raised voices, as if they were scolding a child.

When I read the quote "'call them out for their bad behavior and put them back in their place,'" this is what I visually think of: scolding a child for improper behavior, make their emotional part weaker to let them rationalize what they've done.

Now, when you suggest doing this with every woman in your life, it also appears difficult, given the many social settings we have, such as family, girlfriend, workplace, and hobby groups, etc. Sometimes, you just can't have the same approach to it.

If this is just what it takes, it seems easy, which might explain why we see women keeping those LTRs with judgmental, controlling, aggressive, reactive men, while more passive men, who are often considered higher value, remain single.

There are men who react to these situations by withdrawing attention, turning away, or being indifferent with an "I don't care" attitude, and they are often seen as weak. So, why do we see women submitting to reactive men who raise their voices, while the community suggests it's not a good thing for mature men to be reactive, but instead to remain calm like a mountain in a storm?

Also, are the women who respond well to being judged, to being fixed, really the ones we need, the healthy women, or are they just the ones who do it and like a man like that, just because they had a father who did it, and who was therefore abusive?

If man can understand and apply the correct perspective on this issue, their value to others will increase significantly.


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Other quotes

This idea of holding the frame and she’ll behave is nonsense too. Women aren’t afraid of leaving a man because of how many options they have. “Id better act right or he’ll dump me” is what we’d like to think women will respond to dominance but it’s actually “who does he think he is? I’m gonna leave/cheat/get on tinder,etc.” is the actually real life response. Does anyone that is legit dating right now have a different experience? If so I’m all ears but this is what I’ve found to be true.

Perhaps some examples of how you do this in a way that is not negging or dreading and actually inspires her or has a positive impact on her emotions?

Make no mistake; these eyerolls and other rude/dismissive things that women do when guys approach ARE intended to establish (and/or reinforce) a “She’s better than you” dynamic. But you don’t need to accept that dynamic. She can think she’s better. But you don’t have to believe that.

 

[New_Journey]

You need to judge every woman for her words and actions, and hold her responsible for both. I mean every single woman you come in contact with. Mothers, sisters, friends, acquaintences, girlfriends. Let them see that you are judging them. This is counterintuitive. Instead of repelling women, you will be attracting them.

This is the pettiest advice I've seen in here. This will make you only sound like a angry incel, who has no idea how to deal with women. Imagine a woman telling you one time she got drunk a had a threesome, and you telling her she's a wh0re, that's what incels do, instead of making an opportunity for you to have a threesome with her.

Incels judge, alphas create opportunities, do not follow that advice.

by judging and criticizing her for the consistent lack of preparation, suggesting she doesn't take the task seriously.

This is not how you teach your woman to follow orders. This is being a beta complainer. Weak men complain, strong men take action.

What the fvck would you gain by complaining her consistent lack of preparation? Communication solves nothing. If her not preparing lunch, bothers you so much, then what the fvck are you with a woman like that? You either accept it or you find one who will.

"'Call them out for their bad behavior and put them back in their place" without any consequence just makes you look weak and pathetic.

 

[Duke26]

"'Call them out for their bad behavior and put them back in their place" without any consequence just makes you look weak and pathetic.

This might be the best advice I’ve seen on here in a while

 

[New_Journey]

This might be the best advice I’ve seen on here in a while

We all been there man, and its pathetic when you look back, and should've have said "pack your $hit, don't let the door hit your a$$ on your way out"

 

[jhonny9546]

All good responses. But here is the magic key to the kingdom, the key that opens up the floodgates:

Judge them, and let them know they're being judged.

That's it. So simple yet so effective. You let them know in a self-amused, light-hearted way unless they act like brats, in which case you display disdain.

When I stopped caring about being transactionally "nice" and reversed my attitude to one of judgement, I was even shocked myself at how things turned around. Men resist this idea of jedgment like the plague, and I'mm telling you guys, this is the very thing women crave. They deperately desire to be able to look up to their man.

Men always seem to reject the idea because it's already hard enough to garner attraction, and they figure they will blow it if they start acting the way I recommend. In addition, we don't treat each other (man-to-man) so overtly judgmentally. Thirdly, we have all grown up with Hollywood and Disney shoving that self-depreciating gallantry down our throats.

Think about these two scenarios... The average guy (even red-piller) works to please and impress the ladies. He is greatly tempted to compliment her on her beauty. He does "cold approaches" which usually boil down to telegraphing that he's "all-in" and he is waiting for her acceptance or rejection of him. He hands her 100% of the power.

Now look at your pal Atom Smasher. He starts to talk to a lady while leaning away from her, with his skeptical arms folded. He is immediately telegraphing that he is judging her. He conveys the attitude that he is willing to extend a certain baseline of politeness and friendliness to her, but he is clearly cautiosly evaluating her and she knows it. For perhaps the first time in her life, she finds the script has been flipped and this guy isn't falling at her feet. This shakes her confidence and confuses her. It's doesn't make sense. She finds herself starting to qualify herself. And she can't help but feel at the very least intrigued, but most of the time, massively attracted.

The idea here is to be friendly and have fun, but to PROJECT that you are above her. You should be convinced of your superiority and it should be as obvious to you as the fact that the sky is blue. A total buy-in to your own magnificense relative to her.

Now I know that many of you are picturing being a flaming a-hole. This couldn't be farther from the truth. You're friendly and fun, yet firm and most definitely "unconvinced" as to her suitability. It's a nuanced thing that is difficult to articulate in writing. You question what she says in a fun way. You purposely and humorously misinterpet what she says. You give her VERY MILD put-downs like "Wow, I'm sure you make a lot of friends with that attitude"... stuff like that. Fun but with an edge. Ideally you want to mix up friendliness with some judemental projections verbally and with body language. She will regard you as mysterious, incomprehensible, edgy, confusing, and attractive.

Try that, or just let this message fade away to your detriment. Life is a game, an experiment, so have fun with it. The only thing most of yu have to lose is the girl you would have lost with your politeness and appeasing behavior anyway. If you're going to lose, lose her with the upper hand. But in reality, you will find that although you might lose a few here and there, you will gain far more than you ever did before.

Hold them accountable, hold their feet to the fire, and require respect. Your life will change; I guarantee it. If it worked for me, a completely clueless loser with women, it will work for most of you.

Trust me, my brother, you can fake it. That’s exactly what I did. I was a total loser with women. I was convinced there was literally a “cosmic law” at work where most women could never be attracted to me.

I decided to create a new inner reality by redefining myself as a man who would hold ALL women accountable. That included family. I had absolutely nothing to lose, because in my mind it was impossible to attract women anyway.

Almost overnight my life changed. Women have a certain inner radar that we men can’t imagine exists, which allows them to detect a man who will stand up to them and require things of them. Once I switched over to “judge” mode, my entire demeanor changed and what I projected outward changed.

My voice changed. My body language changed. There was no effort or gimmick to this. All this changed naturally on its own simply because I had made an inner paradigm shift. I didn’t care one iota about rejection anymore. Much to my surprise, I found women being attracted like moths to a flame. I didn’t expect it, but I’m not complaining.
Interestingly, I found that I enjoyed far more respect from men, too.
You guys need to understand that I’m using the word “judging” as a shorthand for the more complex and nuanced concepts I already described. Don’t get hung up on the harshness of the word. If you guys would only start to consider yourselves the King of your kingdom instead of just another cog in the machine, your lives would transform across the board. Willie Shakespeare’s phrase, “Assume a virtue if you have it not” is powerful snd practical. It changes you from within which changes what you project. Too simple? All great, practical ideas are simple and unencumbered by complications and “what ifs” and “yeah, buts”.

Some other interesting posts to shed some more light on this.

I can actually see this in all relationships, and I see women staying in relationships with these judgmental men. It's like they're there waiting for the man to do what he tells them to do.
When you see a good family, usually their father or granpa it's this kind of men here.
Woman have to have that 10/20% "fear" of doing something wrong, or they won't stay in line.
Expecially nowadays. Then they want this in their relationship too.

That being said, I am different: I have an innate sense of helping people and I enjoy giving space to the people in my life, seeing them act on their own minds, and watching them grow. This doesn't mean I cannot set limits and boundaries, but I wasn't made/raised to lead/judge with the education I've got.

@Atom Smasher too said that we had to learn this later in life. He learnt after 50.




Many women report that they have been "annoyed" or "scolded" by their man and that they consider leaving the relationship, or that it is a difficult time, but shortly after, 2 or 3 days, they return to being docile and submissive, but having learned the lesson.
These are small tremors of an earthquake that it is the man who must provide by "scolding" em.

It is as if you have more control and judgment of this person, and rather than walking away from you because you judge her, then she stays because she thinks that you are making her become a better person. The contrary, if you don't control/judge, she'll leave because she'll be bored or because you haven't crafted her in your "desired woman".



That's why I brought atom smasher's posts to the attention, being a more direct and less communicative person.
Personally, rather than judging the woman, I will become cold and she will ask herself "Did I do something wrong?". Then I will give her what she's asking for: being judged for her actions.

@New_Journey @Duke26
What you guys are saying is really too Black and White. In relationships there are compromises and you can't discard a woman just because she has some flaws. Balancing pros and cons.

 

[New_Journey]

When I stopped caring about being transactionally "nice" and reversed my attitude to one of judgement, I was even shocked myself at how things turned around. Men resist this idea of jedgment like the plague, and I'mm telling you guys, this is the very thing women crave. They deperately desire to be able to look up to their man.

Trust me, my brother, you can fake it. That’s exactly what I did. I was a total loser with women. I was convinced there was literally a “cosmic law” at work where most women could never be attracted to me.

This is the only thing that made the difference, when you stop caring you can do whatever you want, but if you wanna keep a girl, judging them is counterproductive to the goals and will make you look whiny. Never judge a woman overtly, it doesn't help to get what you want. But like he said, you can't fake it, you have to internalize it in your heart and mind.

Many women report that they have been "annoyed" or "scolded" by their man and that they consider leaving the relationship, or that it is a difficult time, but shortly after, 2 or 3 days, they return to being docile and submissive, but having learned the lesson.

Arguing with women because of her bad behavior doesn't solve anything, you don't get it, but eventually you will when you keep banging your head against the wall and nothing changes.

It is as if you have more control and judgment of this person, and rather than walking away from you because you judge her, then she stays because she thinks that you are making her become a better person. The contrary, if you don't control/judge, she'll leave because she'll be bored or because you haven't crafted her in your "desired woman".

This is wrong and its reversed. Men with options don't have to control/judge women, that's what incels do, if you do this, you will have a $hitty dating life.

Its common sense, if you have 3 women, and you meet another one who you know is a slvt, are you gonna judge her and try to control her? You won't, you'll discard her, because you have options. Men with options don't control or judge, where did you learn that? Who told you that?

Personally, rather than judging the woman, I will become cold and she will ask herself "Did I do something wrong?". Then I will give her what she's asking for: being judged for her actions.

Ok and then what happens if she does it again? You will be cold again and judge her again? WOMEN RESPOND TO CONSEQUENCES. Remove the pathetic thinking that communication solve problems, it doesn't.

You think she wants to be judged, but not really, she dying for you to have some balls and make her pay with some consequences that will punish that bad behavior.

What you guys are saying is really too Black and White. In relationships there are compromises and you can't discard a woman just because she has some flaws. Balancing pros and cons.

Nobody said it was black and white. In relationships you gotta make compromises that favor you. You still don't get it man.

you can't discard a woman just because she has some flaws.

Brother, for fvcks sake. If you know a woman has flaws, why the fck are you judging her and try to control her? You just said, you can't discard her because of flaws, then why are you whining to her because of those flaws that you know she has?

You have two options, you live with those flaws without judging or you find another girl who has different kind of flaws that you can accept. Its black and white, you either accept it or you move on, whining, judging & controlling makes you look weak, a man with no options.

 

[jhonny9546]

where did you learn that? Who told you that?

They don't want to be judged, but they do want you to hold them accountable for their actions.
It's unfortunate when a woman is a complete package but does something that could end the relationship.

Now, where did I learn that from? Who told me that? I look at other relationships.
There are women who are complete packages but have some issues, such as being overly dramatic or disrespectful. Yet, they are in relationships that last 10 to 20+ years with men who, when they behave in these ways, react and put them back to place. They might be in a depressed mood for a week, but then they return to normal: docile and submissive.

We don't have a magic formula for LTR, but what does that tell us?

 

[New_Journey]

but they do want you to hold them accountable for their actions.

By consequences not by words.

disrespectful. Yet, they are in relationships that last 10 to 20+ years with men who, when they behave in these ways, react and put them back to place.

Those men don't respect themselves, and women have all the power.

They might be in a depressed mood for a week, but then they return to normal: docile and submissive.

And then the disrespecting him again, they put them in their place, then back to normal. Disrespect > back to her place > depressed > docile, then back again with the cycle.

Does that sound like a good relationship to you? Being in a rollercoaster of bad behavior, then good behavior, then bad, then good. A woman should bring you peace, not disrespect. You don't want that type of relationship.

We don't have a magic formula for LTR, but what does that tell us?

There is magic formula that 99% are scared to do because of fear.

Have boundaries and enforce them when they are crossed by removing your attention, affection and/or commitment, depending on the severity. That's is the formula to have a great relationship, when you are willing to nuke everything from day 1 if she crossed your boundaries, women won't fvck with you.

- Women fvck with those men because they know they can.
- You family disrespects you because they know they can.
- Your coworkers take advantage of you because they know they can

 

[The Duke]

There is magic formula that 99% are scared to do because of fear.

Have boundaries and enforce them when they are crossed by removing your attention, affection and/or commitment, depending on the severity. That's is the formula to have a great relationship, when you are willing to nuke everything from day 1 if she crossed your boundaries, women won't fvck with you.

- Women fvck with those men because they know they can.
- You family disrespects you because they know they can.
- Your coworkers take advantage of you because they know they can

lol, magic formula. Sure thing. Your ideas remind me of a dictator.

Have you ever noticed that women who date really bad dudes and get hurt will then seek out the most beta nice guy they can find to replace the previous one? They go from one extreme to another trying to find center. You are doing the same thing. Yes success is about setting boundaries, however balance and strong interpersonal skills are just as important. Don't over compensate. Human thought is not black and white.

 

[New_Journey]

lol, magic formula. Sure thing. Your ideas remind me of a dictator.

Have you ever noticed that women who date really bad dudes and get hurt will then seek out the most beta nice guy they can find to replace the previous one? They go from one extreme to another trying to find center. You are doing the same thing. Yes success is about setting boundaries, however balance and strong interpersonal skills are just as important. Don't over compensate. Human thought is not black and white.

Exactly, I am the benevolent dictator, who knows what's best for me and my relationship.

Do you think you are different than me?

Then why did you tell your ex "I'm not your errand boy, we are done" Because it was enough for her to keep crossing your boundaries, how did you enforce them? Removing you attention, affection and commitment. See, we are not so different.

 

[The Duke]

Exactly, I am the benevolent dictator, who knows what's best for me and my relationship.

Do you think you are different than me?

Then why did you tell your ex "I'm not your errand boy, we are done" Because it was enough for her to keep crossing your boundaries, how did you enforce them? Removing you attention, affection and commitment. See, we are not so different.

I think I am more patient and understanding. I would never nuke anything from day 1. None of us are perfect all the time. Although too much empathy gets you burned, a little empathy paves the way to a closer bond. A man has to pick his battles. Nuking everything insight because you didn't agree with it won't get you what you want either. Hitler was a great example.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I recently had a woman move out. We both learned later in the relationship about my being diagnosed with a mood disorder. An ugly byproduct of that issue is a really ugly temper. Especially when I am pushed into physical or metaphorical corners. A rather innate situation of my own passive aggressive making has set her off one day to a point where she invoked my relationship with children to hurt me.

Anyway, mind you here I own the passive aggression that began the situation and the chain of many other issues as an undiagnosed person that likely conditioned her anxious behavior to some extent at least. But she came at me both emotionally hot under the collar and also related to my kids; so when my kids were there later I said, guys you’re never going to see this woman again, she told me you’re never going to talk to me later in life. It was a disaster on many levels. I was wrong, my therapist helped me see it; I’m simply wrong. I’m a bad father and I need to own it

I really shouldn’t be in that relationship after that and had no intent. I followed up once four days later after silence asking for confirmation of a moving confirmation.

Long story short, she went and spent a couple hours with a specialist on my diagnosis and determined that she wanted to save the relationship but couldn’t return without certain criteria for a plan of action being met. The criteria really weren’t too crazy but she couldn’t deliver it well, and she couldn’t muster coming back.

All I said was essentially look, you are entitled to feel that way; but there is no way that if we can’t discuss these things personally, work on them and then hammer ideas out in person that we are together. This woman wanted to leave her things in my home with indefinite timing as to when she would return.

it was hard to do but I told her that she had to get her stuff under those terms. She pushed back and tried to delay a week, and appealed to emotion, and I said look respectfully you can take the space you need but I’ve been asking nicely and if you don’t get me confirmation of some exit strategy by Friday night, I have to have my attorney serve you a notice to quit.

That’s just my feelings. If you can’t be in person it’s not something I want to keep doing. If she wants to circle back, fine but i am not your storage, and i am not keeping any smell of you in my home impeding my ability to make new connections.

 

[Lotus Effect]

By consequences not by words.


Those men don't respect themselves, and women have all the power.


And then the disrespecting him again, they put them in their place, then back to normal. Disrespect > back to her place > depressed > docile, then back again with the cycle.

Does that sound like a good relationship to you? Being in a rollercoaster of bad behavior, then good behavior, then bad, then good. A woman should bring you peace, not disrespect. You don't want that type of relationship.


There is magic formula that 99% are scared to do because of fear.

Have boundaries and enforce them when they are crossed by removing your attention, affection and/or commitment, depending on the severity. That's is the formula to have a great relationship, when you are willing to nuke everything from day 1 if she crossed your boundaries, women won't fvck with you.

- Women fvck with those men because they know they can.
- You family disrespects you because they know they can.
- Your coworkers take advantage of you because they know they can

gotta tell you dude, you're on fire!